Help me refine a Strongholds concept

Hearthstone does a great job of showcasing characters, abilities, and weapons from Azeroth, but one thing I would like to see included are the amazing locations. I've been trying to come up with how to turn this concept into a card type, but I need some help. I call them "Strongholds" and they would be spells that would pop up on your secrets "frame" around your hero like quests do, giving some kind of defensive or offensive bonus, and requiring some kind of special action from your opponent to bypass or destroy. The issue is that they can't have too hard of requirements to bypass or they will automatically win against any deck that doesn't have the cards to meet requirements. On the other hand, they have to be powerful enough to be worth playing in the first place. I'd love to hear some ideas out there. I want to capture the fantasy of taking refuge behind a wall or in a magical temple that will help you in a battle.

I love the idea- I think you could make it a smidge simpler, and make it not very different than the way passive "artifacts" do in the adventures- i.e. have a passive bonus. What would be interesting is having them negated by certain things, almost giving the game another layer to it's rock-paper-scissors nature.

Simple idea along those lines-

Warrior - Grim Batol

+1 HP to dragons

You could add a bit more flavor of course, and spin something similar as well-

Warrior - Grim Batol

Summon a 0/2 Dragon Egg w/Deathrattle summon a 1/2 every third turn. Destroyed when opponent plays four spells.

I love the concept. Don't know how I would choose to execute.

Tough idea. On one hand, we do have things like Blackhowl Gunspire. This seems like a good way to big buildings with passive or activated effects.

But there might be room for other ways to do it. Passive Hero Powers or equipping a stronghold in the weapon slot. The Quest/Secret space, like you've suggested.

But if you want locations to affect a game, I think it warrants considering how best to accomplish that and be true to the concept of spaces. The battlefield currently is just divided into two segments, it fits 7 minions on both sides. What about cards that affect that space? Shrinking it, expanding it, adding other divisions and obstacles. I think that'd be better described as something like 'Battleground Cards'. I remember seeing a custom Deathwing card that had text like 'Battlecry: reduce the battlefield by two spaces', with the idea being that minion slots would fall into a black chasm, shrinking the battlefield.

A digression: the recent quests create passive hero powers. They're all themed as objects, books, jewelry, etc. I think it'd make more thematic sense if they went to the weapon slot. It'd make them more vulnerable, but it'd keep with Legendary Weapons with 0 attack like Aluneth. I'd guess a lot of players have kind of overlooked how the new quest cards create worn and held objects. They just see a quest card and a passive hero power. Maybe this is best for game balance, but it's a bit less satisfying for me when it comes to representation.

So, lots of options for where to put these things: Minions, dormant minions, weapon slot, hero power slot, secret/quest slot or actual adjustments to the battlefield. Maybe draw up a 'Stronghold' idea for each class, then rotate it through all these positions, see where it fits best?

I remember the Pokemon card game had Stadium cards. Check those out.

Excellent ideas both of you. :) Thanks for sharing. I'll see what I can come up with and am open to what anyone else wishes to suggest as well. There's a lot of options to choose from.

Here's the first version I came up with, inspired by @Aldrad's idea. I couldn't figure out a proper weakness or way to destroy it though, especially in regards to card space. Feedback appreciated. 

Going by your original idea, something like this, maybe?

Hold would be the aura effect, and Crumble would be the condition to destroy it

Hey there,

i really like the idea of defensive structures as Cards. Regarding balancing - well once you would introtruce such a Card type you could also create Cards to destroy thesecards (like Secrets and Flare etc.).

My Suggestion for such a Card

I also like the wording from DestroyeR so i kept it. :)

Well the first thing that came to my mind after reading your Post was Blackhowl Gunspire ... 

So i guess these "Stronghold" Cards should always work like some sorft of Defense ... maybe like this:

[img]http://www.hearthcards.net/cards/7e701b54.png[/img] - anyone know how i can link this one so it shows up as the real card and not just the link ??

I realy like this Idea!!

Quote From Demonxz95

Quote From FieselFitz

Well the first thing that came to my mind after reading your Post was Blackhowl Gunspire ... 

So i guess these "Stronghold" Cards should always work like some sorft of Defense ... maybe like this:

[img]http://www.hearthcards.net/cards/7e701b54.png[/img] - anyone know how i can link this one so it shows up as the real card and not just the link ??

 

I realy like this Idea!!

 

Like this.

Click the "Insert/Edit Image" button in the post interface, and paste the image URL. Change the dimensions as you wish. 200 is the size I normally use.

Although you shouldn't use links directly from HearthCards. Cards from HearthCards can only be saved for about 3 days. If you want your card to be permanent, you'll need to host it on an image sharing site such as Imgur.

Thank you very much - have to look how Imgur works - never used stuff like this before

BTW, putting the “Stronghold” tag on the spell seems a little pointless IMO. Why would it be different than a Quest or a Secret?

The tag is just for the sake of reminding me what I'm working on while I'm developing them. It's not meant as a permanent feature. 

I'd also like to say that I like the minion/dormant ideas, but they do have the drawback of not showing off as much of the art as the larger picture on a spell card. Given that I'm designing these purely to capture the flavor of taking refuge in an iconic location, that kind of defeats my purpose. 

Quote From GoliathTheDwarf

The tag is just for the sake of reminding me what I'm working on while I'm developing them. It's not meant as a permanent feature. 

Oh, ok. BTW, just out of curiosity, do you plan on making all Strongholds (still think it should be “Holds”, or “Keeps”) Legendary? That matches with your intent to picture iconic locations and would make it more similar to Quest, but maybe non-Legendary Strongholds could also have interesting cards to have direct synergies with them

I also really like the concept of highlighting some of warcraft's legendary locations.  Booty Bay is a cool design, would be interested to see more.

Quote From DestroyerR

Oh, ok. BTW, just out of curiosity, do you plan on making all Strongholds (still think it should be “Holds”, or “Keeps”) Legendary? That matches with your intent to picture iconic locations and would make it more similar to Quest, but maybe non-Legendary Strongholds could also have interesting cards to have direct synergies with them

That's a good idea. There could always be more general things like "goblin bomb-shelter" or "Stromguard Fort" off the top of my head. The iconic ones are my motivator, but I see no problem with expanding the concept. 

Quote From sinti

But they do have an advantage of being visible, which is more important. You play a spell that says "active for 3 turns" and after one or two turns you forget it is active or dont remember how long is left. That is a horrible design, if you ask me.

That is a very good point. I'll see what I can do in terms of making them minions. I would simplify things in that minions can be overcome with anything and I wouldn't have to work out some new system to try and make a unique thing balanced. The initial concept was that they would be like Quests, a unique type of spell, but I'll give this version a go.

Quote From sinti

Quote From GoliathTheDwarf

I'd also like to say that I like the minion/dormant ideas, but they do have the drawback of not showing off as much of the art as the larger picture on a spell card. Given that I'm designing these purely to capture the flavor of taking refuge in an iconic location, that kind of defeats my purpose. 

But they do have an advantage of being visible, which is more important. You play a spell that says "active for 3 turns" and after one or two turns you forget it is active or dont remember how long is left. That is a horrible design, if you ask me.

But if it occupies a Quest slot (like Goliath wanted to at first), it would still be very visible. You could even change the icon to a small rook or something, but I don’t see why it would be less visible than a minion. Plus, flavor-wise, it wouldn’t make sense for a location to prevent you from playing extra minions. That works for Shrines and structures, but not genera places

This is also a great point.

Checking up on this because I really do like the concept. Did you settle on a specific idea yet?

Haven't gotten around to updating it yet thanks to other projects and events keeping me busy, but I'll see what I can come up with soon. 

Here's my first shot at trying a "minion" version of strongholds. I honestly have no clue what I'm doing, lol. I think I like the "quest" idea better, but I still can't figure out how to design their ability to be removed without making it some sort of insta-win if your opponent doesn't have those specific cards in their deck. For example, let's say I made one defeatable by playing a card like a dragon or elemental. If they don't have one of those cards, I'm perfectly safe and they don't stand a chance.

Quote From GoliathTheDwarf

Here's my first shot at trying a "minion" version of strongholds. I honestly have no clue what I'm doing, lol. I think I like the "quest" idea better, but I still can't figure out how to design their ability to be removed without making it some sort of insta-win if your opponent doesn't have those specific cards in their deck. For example, let's say I made one defeatable by playing a card like a dragon or elemental. If they don't have one of those cards, I'm perfectly safe and they don't stand a chance.

Personally I think something like Blackhowl Gunspire or Portable Ice Wall are what you would want for minion based "Stronghold" cards.  This type of effect would be better as a temporary dormant token idea like what Demonx had above.  Also, this Chapel card's effect would be much better if it were an Even costed card, please!  LOL

@GoliathTheDwarf Well, that would be solved by having:

A) a condition that any normal deck would have or could plausibly achieve (using HP, clearing the board, playing tribe minions etc.)

B) having the effects be weak so it’s not really the end of the world if they can’t clear it

C) having the Stronghold itself give them a way to clear it

D) a little bit of everything, could vary for each class

I'm thinking of perhaps the spell shuffling the necessary ways to defeat it into the enemy deck. Think that would work for some at least?

that could be an excellent idea for one legendary Stronghold, but overusing that idea would get old quickly. Maybe make it expensive, just so aggro can’t abuse the fact it’s shuffled and may take time to draw

Those are my ideas for each class based on @GoliathTheDwarf example

PS:Temple of Elune shouldn't be with 15 Health becouse it has turn 3 OTK potencial with Divine Spirit + Inner Fire :D

Well if you want it to be a minion with those stats, it at least has to have Can't attack so it can't be buffed and abused. 

Well, I'm planning on going back to the spell concept anyway. The minion style just doesn't look right to me in comparison what I'm envisioning. 

Here's my latest idea. I'm going back to a spell format for now because I like it better and feel it gives better flavor. I'm working with the idea that the very advantage the card gives you is also how it can be destroyed, just like how a fort can be taken if its armies are beaten back or its defenses are destroyed. Exact wording is still being worked on and might require a better keyword for the sake of space.

The “Crumble Condition” can be shortened into Crumble, and you’d have to make a custom Keyword for this to behave like a Stronghold rather than a normal spell (similar to how Secrets have to start with “Secret:” to work differently from just a permanent aura spell). I’m ultimately just going back to my original format suggestion.

The idea of how exactly the Stronghold gives a way to destroy itself is very well executed here! Are you planning to make all of them like that?

Yeah, that's the plan right now, although I'll try to make them unique to each flavor and with different styles so they won't just be reskins of the same card. Also, thanks for the keyword tips.

Here's some things from my custom expansion, they are WAY OP but hey, it might help out.

@griffior don’t really like how the text is put directly on the art, makes it harder to rea

I agree, which is why I'm opting to use normal spell cards instead of these strange location cards. The locations themselves are good ideas though. I'll keep some of them in mind.

Here's a version of Karahzan I just brainstormed.

Quote From GoliathTheDwarf

I agree, which is why I'm opting to use normal spell cards instead of these strange location cards. The locations themselves are good ideas though. I'll keep some of them in mind.

Quote From DestroyerR

@griffior don’t really like how the text is put directly on the art, makes it harder to rea

Made these cards a while ago, was a noob to card creating then

Quote From GoliathTheDwarf

Here's a version of Karahzan I just brainstormed.

“Your minions have Spell Damage +1”, and the “you” after the Crumble is unnecessary imo, but suppose you only meant to showcase the idea