[Speculation]Heist hero powers being used in regular play in the future

I have been wondering about the hero power selection in the heist adventure and it seems like the hero powers in the adventure might be alternative hero powers in common play in the future..

Of course not in the same balance since they are a bit overturned for the adventure but a toned down version (or even buffed) might be something that might appeal to team 5 to implement into HS in the future..

Think about it many cards/archtypes team 5 tried to push failed due to lack of consistency, for example "freeze" tempo mage(the one with tempo freeze cards) or overload shaman, or rush/enrage tempo warrior decks..

I think such decks have been held back by the lack of support in the hero powers, there seem to be some hero powers that might support those archtypes while still being basic enough for the game.

I will give my idea about implementing the heist hero powers into standard play will try to keep it as brief as possible as this post is already too long anyway.

Do note that I am  balancing them around "the effects cost either 0 mana or 1 mana and a drawback"

By upgraded I mean the baku hero power.

Mage: 2 mana freeze an enemy. upgraded: and deal 1 damage to it

Shaman: 2 mana draw a card overload (1), 1 mana might be too OP, at 2 mana it enables overload synergy easier, while having a clear draw back. upgraded: draw 2 cards.

Hunter: opportunist from heist is perfect as is +2 attack is balanced by the fact you need to have rush or already present minions to activate it. upgraded: +3 attack

Priest: 2 mana lower the attack of a minion by 2 until your next turn. upgraded: by 3

Rogue: 2 mana burgle a card from another class (not sure might be too OP, no idea how to nerf it but it's a "0 mana" effect) upgraded: burgle 2 cards.

Warrior:2 mana deal 1 damage to a friendly minion give it +2 attack upgraded: +3.

Druid: 2 mana give a friendly minion +1/+1. upgraded: +2/+1

Paladin: 2 mana give a friendly minion divine shield. upgraded: I am actually not sure.. maybe the other one supporting hand buff is more healty.

Warlock: 2 mana, take 2 damage deal 2 damage. upgraded: 3 damage taken/dealt

Now are you thinking how would they reward them to players.. well there IS a pointless system currently that tracks your hero level that level is totally pointless from level 10, it could after level 30 for example unlock the alternate hero powers which you will choose on deck building, also the hero power will need to show up on the hero portrait for clarity so you can mulligan for it better.

What do you think will blizzard/team 5 introduce such a change in the future, and used heist as a testing ground for this feature?

I think you're half right. I think the new hero powers will come in the form of cards that "upgrade" your hero power to an all new one. A new Justicar or Baku that changes things up more than just ramps up the power level.

But there is no chance in my mind that each class will get a choice of multiple hero powers as their default start of game button. It just opens up too many design constraints while making Blizzard no money. Can't see it happening. That's not how ActiBlizz works.

I think it more likely that a bunch of these are toned down versions of proposed death knight hero powers that didn't make it out of R&D. We'll probably see more hero cards in the future, as well as other means to change the basic hero power, but I doubt it'll be any of these ones. A lot of them are just meh, and then there's Burning Wit, the mage discount one, which is completely off the walls bonkers in terms of power level.

I don't think the fundamental hero power system will be changed, it's hard enough to balance the game with just one hero power per class. Class cards are balanced around the hero powers because they aren't all equal, EG Warlock gets crappy cards because lifetap is way OP. This'd mean that any alternative WL hero power would have to be similarly good or any player running it will just be at a disadvantage.

Having the alt hero powers in single player content strikes me as a reasonable compromise.

Well the hero powers won't be implemented as is, but after a slight nerf/ adjustment.

I really don' t think we will get those hero powers as hero cards as their power level is medium to low at best..

Too complicated for HS design policy (understandably so, for this matter), won't happen.

And they will also never try a Genn/Baku risk in the future, where the upgrade is a Start of the Game effect, no matter how harsh the deckbuilding restriction. And again, understandably so: Genn/Baku should have been class or triclass-restricted, not full-blown neutrals. Making more cards with that design would trigger a social Mass Hysteria on Standard community.

If anything, it could be new fuel for future Hero Cards, or cards that work similarly to Justicar Trueheart or Raza the Chained, that is, upgrades that are bound to card draw.

Even then, most of the Hero Powers don't look so exciting as to deserve complicated designs efforts... Maybe only few of them.

Quote From RavenSunHS

Too complicated for HS design policy (understandably so, for this matter), won't happen.

And they will also never try a Genn/Baku risk in the future, where the upgrade is a Start of the Game effect, no matter how harsh the deckbuilding restriction. And again, understandably so: Genn/Baku should have been class or triclass-restricted, not full-blown neutrals. Making more cards with that design would trigger a social Mass Hysteria on Standard community.

If anything, it could be new fuel for future Hero Cards, or cards that work similarly to Justicar Trueheart or Raza the Chained, that is, upgrades that are bound to card draw.

Even then, most of the Hero Powers don't look so exciting as to deserve complicated designs efforts... Maybe only few of them.

The thing is that this "complicated feature" already is kind of in the game it doesn't require too much of additional GUI to add to the game(it can be just like adding a card back to a deck, you will assign the hero power as well), also it would make strategies that are a total failure in certain classes more relevant and expand the posibilities.

I am not talking about adding baku again I am saying that if they add starting hero powers they need to add support to baku hero powers in the wild format as well as justicar.

I am against another "start of game" or draw dependant effect what I am talking about is a balanced, yet different hero power on the same power level of the current ones..0 mana cost effect, or 1 mana cost with a draw back(take damage, random,overload,costing 3,symmetric) it's a design space the devs aren't using.

they don't have to look exciting cause they are starting hero powers what is exciting is adding support and consistency to previously failed archtypes by adding more depth to deck building as well as adding another strategic layer to the game expanding the possibilties.

for example Rogue hero power is tempo heavy but Blizzard is trying to push value rogue if the hero power supported a more value oriented game plan.. or warlock really would like a hero power that uses the discard mechanic.

we saw endless examples of hero powers the devs come up with in the adventure, you tone them down to standard play and then you get a new layer to deck building, it could be an event at first for testing.

Anyway it's just a possibility they might test for the future.

Quote From DoubleSummon

Quote From RavenSunHS

Too complicated for HS design policy (understandably so, for this matter), won't happen.

And they will also never try a Genn/Baku risk in the future, where the upgrade is a Start of the Game effect, no matter how harsh the deckbuilding restriction. And again, understandably so: Genn/Baku should have been class or triclass-restricted, not full-blown neutrals. Making more cards with that design would trigger a social Mass Hysteria on Standard community.

If anything, it could be new fuel for future Hero Cards, or cards that work similarly to Justicar Trueheart or Raza the Chained, that is, upgrades that are bound to card draw.

Even then, most of the Hero Powers don't look so exciting as to deserve complicated designs efforts... Maybe only few of them.

The thing is that this "complicated feature" already is kind of in the game it doesn't require too much of additional GUI to add to the game(it can be just like adding a card back to a deck, you will assign the hero power as well), also it would make strategies that are a total failure in certain classes more relevant and expand the posibilities.

I am not talking about adding baku again I am saying that if they add starting hero powers they need to add support to baku hero powers in the wild format as well as justicar.

I am against another "start of game" or draw dependant effect what I am talking about is a balanced, yet different hero power on the same power level of the current ones..0 mana cost effect, or 1 mana cost with a draw back(take damage, random,overload,costing 3,symmetric) it's a design space the devs aren't using.

they don't have to look exciting cause they are starting hero powers what is exciting is adding support and consistency to previously failed archtypes by adding more depth to deck building as well as adding another strategic layer to the game expanding the possibilties.

for example Rogue hero power is tempo heavy but Blizzard is trying to push value rogue if the hero power supported a more value oriented game plan.. or warlock really would like a hero power that uses the discard mechanic.

we saw endless examples of hero powers the devs come up with in the adventure, you tone them down to standard play and then you get a new layer to deck building, it could be an event at first for testing.

Anyway it's just a possibility they might test for the future.

Not technically complicated. I meant simply clunky, even awkward for the new player.

Hero Powers are meant to be the most straightforward thing in the game.

As much as i like the idea of more room for deckbuilding, which is my main purpose in the game tbh, there are already endless plains of unexplored or ill-explored design space. Freeze Shaman or Stealth Rogue, just to name a few. Thief Rogue is barely a thing now after how many years of mostly useless Burgle cards, etc. 

It's just that they do not want to be as innovative as they could, with deck archetypes and variations.

While I like the idea, I doubt it will ever be a thing since they want to keep the basic of the game almost the same always. Giving the chance to change the starting HP, even with something on the same power level, may lead to some imbalance (expecially on Wild) that may be hard to settle properly. Team 5 already had shown how they can't handle such thing by moving to HoF Genn Greymane and Baku the Mooneater before their due time.

It's a choice that will indeed open up new design space but also will imply tons of more tinkering for balance and that's is not something they want to do, considering that HS have chronically an issue under that point.

The only way we would probably see new HP is with more DK or with other card similar to Justicar Trueheart: upgraded effect but tied to draw the specific card.

Let me start out by saying, neat idea, I think most players would want some variability in match-ups with alternate hero powers instead of the vanilla ones. That being said, current hero powers aren't even balanced, cards are printed with the idea of the hero power in mind.

Your idea would fit a brawl more or less, it couldn't exist in the realm of standard or wild.

The problem with balancing hero powers is that the player ALWAYS has access to it and can use it multiple times. this is why Baku and Genn got rotated out in a year because Team 5 saw the polarization of these cards. Even if these were not too impactful (and most of them are very OP, Rogue with infinite value and we just had KotFT rotate out. Mage has ALOT of freeze synergies, giving it single target freeze so it can save Frost Nova or Blizzard for bigger boards would just lock the opponent out from doing anything, something like that might find a home in Shaman if they supported Freeze Shaman more.) it would shatter balance.

The only way thus far that has (kind of) worked is with the powers attached to cards. The hero cards were dependent on the Draw and how much mana the player had, most cards would swing games from a bleak defeat to a easy victory over a few turns. Dinomancy is a great example of this becuase if you didn't draw it, you were going to have a bad time. It wasn't too overpowered because it was attached to a card, but when you could play it the second you were able to, it was bad news bears for the other player.

I'm ignoring Wild in my thought process because we all know that it's an afterthought internally so why even worry about it? While I, and probably everyone else who plays this game, like the idea of new hero powers for regular play, they have to have more constrictions instead of being able to immediately be used. But if you come up with more ways to balance this, i.e. "You're deck can only contain Beast minions" then that would be a fair constriction. Anyway have a good day!

I've wanted alternate hero powers for quite some time.  Always thought it could be a new way to freshen the game.  Some decks just really don't use specific hero powers.  Aggro warrior always saw it's HP as an afterthought.  In fact the hero power pushes a certain deck style.  I would love to see something that remains in theme with the existing classes but explores another side of them.

More card like dinomancy could be good. There are hero power that are straightforward aggro (hunter) or control (warrior, priest), and that doesn't support well the opposite archetype. This is why I love Sr Finley so much.
Maybe Hero card are better for the lore and the legendary status, after all. I can see some low cost hero card with aggro hero power and not that powerfull battlecry, as they did the Death Knight as high cost strong battlecry control hero power. I can see lots of things that I would like.

Actually there are some stuff that people are not understanding here.

1. Baku and genn  were more about odd/even restriction than about hero power upgrade.

That restriction is basically what made the cards impossible to tweak in any meaningfull way.

2.We not want those extra stuff on standard forever. The less stuff we have at standard forever the better it is.

In other words as a player I want basic hero powers to be the only evergreen hero powers.

If they return is better to be as start of game cards due to this.

3. Baku and genn was a recent thing. 

Don't expect to make people be rational about it and understand the points above in the first try.

While it is important to learn what happened and to tell it. Not insist on it. This is just recent and many people still to salty about it to even think.

I do agree that Hearthstone could benefit from more starting Hero Powers that we currently have.

Hunter, Warrior and Priest in particular have a tendency to feel forced, in terms of which archtypes they really can support, because of their Hero Powers.

Any sort of valuegenerating Hero Power could certainly open the door for more control-ish Hunter archtypes.

Quote From minami

Actually there are some stuff that people are not understanding here.

 

1. Baku and genn  were more about odd/even restriction than about hero power upgrade.

That restriction is basically what made the cards impossible to tweak in any meaningfull way.

 

2.We not want those extra stuff on standard forever. The less stuff we have at standard forever the better it is.

In other words as a player I want basic hero powers to be the only evergreen hero powers.

If they return is better to be as start of game cards due to this.

3. Baku and genn was a recent thing. 

Don't expect to make people be rational about it and understand the points above in the first try.

While it is important to learn what happened and to tell it. Not insist on it. This is just recent and many people still to salty about it to even think.

I can understand wanting a card "start of the game: have an alternate hero power" but then you have to make the hero power slightly more powerful of a normal one cause you are then running a vanilla stated minion or worse which was baku's problem. Or having cards like shadowform/dinomancy that do this very effect which again those hero powers are slightly stronger than usual and you are forced to draw and play a card to trigger those effects. 

But I think that Blizzard could implement a yearly alternate hero power that will rotate every year to spice things up it could make metas harder to solve when there are 18 hero powers.

The hero powers should still be balanced as I said a 0 mana cost effect. 

I not feel like they need to be more powerfull.

Let's not be naive and think on why you want a new hero power at first....

People will try to make synergy around it and have more options will generate competition.

In other words running a card to have a different hero power is reasonable trade just by the fact of it not be the normal one.

It really not needs to be more powerfull to justify a card on the deck.