That Edwin nerf and later HoF is only to be expected. It remains the only aggressive tempo card that have survived all 6 years of hearthstone through every iteration of rogues, with the only exception of quest rogue. Hell, it basically crowned two world champions on its own. I don't think there's any other card in hearthstone history that has accomplished so much and remained untouched for so long. Here's hoping that the replacement legendary next year would be at least interesting.
As to whether it will affect anything. It will, but only making the cheese slower. There's little reason why you can't get a 8/8 Edwin out on turn 3-4, which is still pretty good tempo, just no longer an auto win.
Shaman nerf is too tame to stop it, and unfortunately, because 3 attack is still on the borderline of what we can call a decent attack range to kill, its still going to affect tempo, so the only change here would be removal of Dread Corsairs for something like Faceless Corruptor. I was hoping they go further with the attack nerf to 2, so shaman would change up their cards to fit more early game, which will at very least mean we don't see reload after reload every turn.
I actually like foxy fraud as a powerful tool in rogues toolbox.. That will rotate out in a year. Edwin as a classic card has been a problem for years regardless of Foxy Fraud. They seem to plan on removing edwin to the hall of fame, so this gives Foxy/rogue a chance to have some cool combo cards after that.
I know I proably should open an new threat for the following topic but I'm too lazy to do...
I don't know how you feel about the game but I am quite unhappy how the game feels to play.
The regions I like the most Noxus(of cause) Freljord(frostbite-midrange) and P&Z(Heimerdinger)aren't doing that well and overall I see a lot of targon played.
I still don't like targon as a region and especially I still don't like Hush and the concept of silence in general.
Players complained a lot about Hush as it came out and tbh its feels as toxic of a mechanic as it was when it came out.
Sure, its now limited to 1 target but that is enough to screw over decks that play around buffs or certain effects and that it is just 2 mana at burst speed... its a real feel bad card that can decide games by screwing 1 large unit up or jam an effect that would stop you. Silencing is proably the main reason for targon's popularity aside of Zoe and her highroll potential.
Also I feel bad about landmarks making it into tier decks now. Landmark removal is still narrow and the cards that deal with landmarks usually suck in non landmark matchups (with the exeption of aftershock and divergent paths).
As swim already ranted, landmarks are very rng cards because they have to be broken if you draw exactly 1 copy and play it on curve because otherwise they are pointless and won't see play.
Landmarks suck if you draw multiples, landmarks need several turns to become worth it so drawing them late is terrible not to mention the fact that landmarks are play-around-cards that influence the deckbuilding significantly and therefore make your deck relient on getting them early.
Short: the concept of landmarks is terrible and the best way for riot to deal with landmarks is to rework them, giving them a replacement card if you have already a copy of them in play, and shift some of their ongoing power to immediate power so they are way less rng and healthier design.
In general I wonder if it is just me or that games became a lot less predictable and rng heavier, and therefore less strategic since call of the mountain? It feels like it and it feels bad to me. I once had 70%-80% winrate now we are talking way closer to 50% without me getting worse at the game...
Natalie Seline isn't a bad card. It was in every Highlander Priest while that was still viable a few months ago. We're just in a bad meta for it right now. If Control Warrior or Control Warlock is the best deck again (and Priest is competitive), Natalie will see play.
That's what a Classic legendary should be. A meta call.
they already explained the edwin nerf in the patchnotes...
Dev Comment: The last few weeks have been the best Edwin has ever performed as an individual card (the highest win rate card in multiple Rogue archetypes). Alongside cards like Foxy Fraud and Shadowstep, the frequency of early 8/8 or 10/10 Edwin VanCleefs reached a point we are no longer comfortable with. We want to evaluate how the rest of Rogue's kit performs without this very powerful iteration of Edwin. Cards like Foxy Fraud, Swindle, and Prize Plunderer are important pieces for future expansions and card interactions, so we'll be keeping close tabs on how they perform with the influx of new cards and Edwin's nerf.
They seem well though out and not too heavy handed. I like rogue and Edwin and will continue to play them. I'm on the fence about dusting the knucks because I didn't like playing evolve Shaman. I also wonder if this forces shamans to contest the early game, so maybe that more spells and corruptor build?
OH, and there was a comment somehwre like they want to see how rogue performs for the future, like, with foxy and swindle and combo and such. If that's the way, then I'm enthused, as I like that playstyle. But Whirlkick and lackeys (miscreant) are leaving soon (right?)...
I had never considered it this way before, but Seline is similar to an 8-mana Mind Control. You don't copy whatever effects the minion had, but you will have 1 more health and normally have more attack too. Of course mechanically she has nothing to do with MC, which is why it looks like she doesn't represent the class very well. And I guess it doesn't help that hard removal isn't anything unique to priest.
As an aside (since I don't think anyone else is bothering to read our whole discussion) I want to say I do genuinely respect your opinions despite often disagreeing with them. I saw you get justifiably angry at a few disrespectful comments below, and while I doubt they are going to apologise, I can at least make it 100% clear that I am no enemy :)
Foretell seems awfully strong, particularly if it costs no net mana. It lets you save a card from discard and other hand stealing/surveillance effects, stash a card from overdrawing, and spend unused mana for a cheap surprise play later. I mean it seemed good even when it cost one net mana (Alrund's Epiphany, Cosmos Charger), but some of these other Foretell cards like Ravenform have no net cost. Yikes!
My friend Mike and I have been wanting a way to better (more smoothly and seamlessly) review each others’ VODs. The current options out there are either clunky, makes sharing POVs with friends difficult, or are missing key decision points (eg: discover options). So we came up with SquadOV: our (humble) attempt to make sharing easier with friends and to ensure that no bit of information is missed when watching replays. It's also totally free, no ads or anything.
Here are some sample pictures
Check us out now at SquadOV.gg!
Summary of Features:
No need for other screen capturing software such as OBS! Records games automatically.
View your matches anywhere, anytime! Match History and VODs are stored online for free.
Saving match highlights from games has never been easier! Make a sick play? Can't remember what the discover options were? Re-watch it by clicking it on the event log.
Rating is recorded online after every game to make tracking progression easy! Automatically keep track of your Competitive Rating for Battlegrounds. No need to buy the tavern brawl pass to see your Battlegrounds match history!
Squad mode allows you to share and browse other users’ games within the same Squad! If you are both in the same game, the same game is synchronized to allow switching from one point of view to another with just a click of a button!
FAQ:
I installed SquadOV and it’s running. Now what? Hop into a game! It’ll automatically detect what game you’re playing and record in the background. You can change the record quality on the bottom left.
Difference between SquadOV and HSReplay / Firestone. Currently HSReplay and Firestone have post game stats but limited replay capability (for example battlegrounds and discover options are not captured). SquadOV keeps a clean VOD of the game play and syncs the match history to the VOD to allow you to go through replays much easier with defined events and timestamps. It also tracks personal rating on a per game basis.
Is this Mac compatible? Currently not but we do plan to in the future!
Thanks again guys and please let us know what you think :)
Good one, all that´s left is to find someone who´s actually playing them on ladder :D
(would hit you with a snowball for this, if I had any left :P)
No need to find anyone, that's priest's schtick. Burgle rogue just generates them out of 'thin air'. Dragon's Hoard is your best friend here, although it will take quite a while to find specific legendaries enough times to finish the achievements.
Oh, didn´t think of that. I think it´s obvious I don´t play Rogue.. at all :P But will deff try this, thanks!
(I owe you a snowball for this too :D)
ON TOPIC: I´ve just hit lvl 100 with paid track. So it took me a week from lvl 80 to 100 (quests along with XP achievements).
In some metas yes, but I don't think he's a fundamentally weak card. With a bit of miracle rogue support he can pull his weight. Plus, I wouldn't be against a small stat buff to a 4/2 or 3/3 if need be. If the stats are refined he can feel like a card that would be considered in lots of archetypes, without being an auto-include.
Perhaps more than any other cards, Classic class legendaries should excite players about class mechanics. Edwin's design was good in this regard as he had a serious reward for stringing several cards together, but some are much less successful. E.g. I would say Natalie Seline is a very bad design for Classic legendary because it doesn't get anyone interested in priest. She's not a particularly bad card (it hasn't helped that aggro has dominated all year), she just doesn't invite you to do any priestly things. Xaril's strength, on the other hand, is that he is an open invitation to try out almost all the class has to offer, which makes him a great ambassador for the class.
Perhaps I'll make a thread about my thoughts on this over the weekend. I'd be interested to hear everyone else's views on what makes a good Classic legendary.
Satine is bad thougj,spending almost if nto entire turn in lategame to remove 1minion is hoenstly not good. Selien would be inetresting at like 6 mana 6/1 with same effect much better control and still allows for tempo aswell which i feel she is kinda mleant to be. And wpuld come down on tme still. And blizz sees her as doing priesty things,cause shadow themed (barly really) and is removal so priest identity.
With stat boost xaril is good but 3/2 stats on 4 drop then gott spend 2more mana is just to weak to few stat for his cost and unlike like sonya (who was/is niche still ) isnt cheap enough that can combi it with other stuff in same turn cause he +potions cost 6mana nad thats msot of turn gone already. If was 3 2/2 could do questin on 3, then xaril +potion on 4 and be far more ok satt wise and on curve play.
In some metas yes, but I don't think he's a fundamentally weak card. With a bit of miracle rogue support he can pull his weight. Plus, I wouldn't be against a small stat buff to a 4/2 or 3/3 if need be. If the stats are refined he can feel like a card that would be considered in lots of archetypes, without being an auto-include.
Perhaps more than any other cards, Classic class legendaries should excite players about class mechanics. Edwin's design was good in this regard as he had a serious reward for stringing several cards together, but some are much less successful. E.g. I would say Natalie Seline is a very bad design for Classic legendary because it doesn't get anyone interested in priest. She's not a particularly bad card (it hasn't helped that aggro has dominated all year), she just doesn't invite you to do any priestly things. Xaril's strength, on the other hand, is that he is an open invitation to try out almost all the class has to offer, which makes him a great ambassador for the class.
Perhaps I'll make a thread about my thoughts on this over the weekend. I'd be interested to hear everyone else's views on what makes a good Classic legendary.
They could and they probably will, but when talking about making an evergreen card there is merit to using what we know works. As the saying goes: there is no point in reinventing the wheel.
As much as I like the card, Xaril's power level is too low to compete in Wild, so he might as well not exist at the moment. Yes, you could argue for buffing him - and he'd be a good target for that - but I still believe he'd be a perfect fit for Classic as he is.
Of course, this whole argument only holds if Blizz wants a card like Xaril in Classic. If they want Edwin's replacement to go in a different direction then it is like comparing apples with oranges, so there's little point in dwelling too much on the idea.
And he'd be super weak in standard aswell, it be classic Yeah but classic shouldnt gabrage tier either. It should still be something decentt/Good enough and xairl wouldnt make it in standard at all either
Legends of Runeterra is Getting a Co-Operative Lab Experience Next Week on January 13 - Here's What We Know
I've lost track of how many times I've said that playing LoR.
Is Shamanstone Over? Edwin Bites the Dust! Our Thoughts on the Recent Hearthstone Balance Changes
That Edwin nerf and later HoF is only to be expected. It remains the only aggressive tempo card that have survived all 6 years of hearthstone through every iteration of rogues, with the only exception of quest rogue. Hell, it basically crowned two world champions on its own. I don't think there's any other card in hearthstone history that has accomplished so much and remained untouched for so long. Here's hoping that the replacement legendary next year would be at least interesting.
As to whether it will affect anything. It will, but only making the cheese slower. There's little reason why you can't get a 8/8 Edwin out on turn 3-4, which is still pretty good tempo, just no longer an auto win.
Shaman nerf is too tame to stop it, and unfortunately, because 3 attack is still on the borderline of what we can call a decent attack range to kill, its still going to affect tempo, so the only change here would be removal of Dread Corsairs for something like Faceless Corruptor. I was hoping they go further with the attack nerf to 2, so shaman would change up their cards to fit more early game, which will at very least mean we don't see reload after reload every turn.
Is Shamanstone Over? Edwin Bites the Dust! Our Thoughts on the Recent Hearthstone Balance Changes
Yes, exactly. You succinctly captured the gist of my ramblings.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
A little useless, perhaps.
Littering around after beat
All it takes is a little nap
Readying to reheat.
Bah. Not one of my best, too easy... Writer's block haha
Is Shamanstone Over? Edwin Bites the Dust! Our Thoughts on the Recent Hearthstone Balance Changes
I actually like foxy fraud as a powerful tool in rogues toolbox.. That will rotate out in a year. Edwin as a classic card has been a problem for years regardless of Foxy Fraud. They seem to plan on removing edwin to the hall of fame, so this gives Foxy/rogue a chance to have some cool combo cards after that.
MTG Arena Mobile Arrives in Early Access on Android on January 28
It was about damn time! Awesome news!
A few "Go Hard" nerf ideas
I know I proably should open an new threat for the following topic but I'm too lazy to do...
I don't know how you feel about the game but I am quite unhappy how the game feels to play.
The regions I like the most Noxus(of cause) Freljord(frostbite-midrange) and P&Z(Heimerdinger)aren't doing that well and overall I see a lot of targon played.
I still don't like targon as a region and especially I still don't like Hush and the concept of silence in general.
Players complained a lot about Hush as it came out and tbh its feels as toxic of a mechanic as it was when it came out.
Sure, its now limited to 1 target but that is enough to screw over decks that play around buffs or certain effects and that it is just 2 mana at burst speed... its a real feel bad card that can decide games by screwing 1 large unit up or jam an effect that would stop you. Silencing is proably the main reason for targon's popularity aside of Zoe and her highroll potential.
Also I feel bad about landmarks making it into tier decks now. Landmark removal is still narrow and the cards that deal with landmarks usually suck in non landmark matchups (with the exeption of aftershock and divergent paths).
As swim already ranted, landmarks are very rng cards because they have to be broken if you draw exactly 1 copy and play it on curve because otherwise they are pointless and won't see play.
Landmarks suck if you draw multiples, landmarks need several turns to become worth it so drawing them late is terrible not to mention the fact that landmarks are play-around-cards that influence the deckbuilding significantly and therefore make your deck relient on getting them early.
Short: the concept of landmarks is terrible and the best way for riot to deal with landmarks is to rework them, giving them a replacement card if you have already a copy of them in play, and shift some of their ongoing power to immediate power so they are way less rng and healthier design.
In general I wonder if it is just me or that games became a lot less predictable and rng heavier, and therefore less strategic since call of the mountain? It feels like it and it feels bad to me. I once had 70%-80% winrate now we are talking way closer to 50% without me getting worse at the game...
Edwin VanCleef and Boggspine Knuckles Nerfed In Today's Surprise Hearthstone Balance Patch
Natalie Seline isn't a bad card. It was in every Highlander Priest while that was still viable a few months ago. We're just in a bad meta for it right now. If Control Warrior or Control Warlock is the best deck again (and Priest is competitive), Natalie will see play.
That's what a Classic legendary should be. A meta call.
Is Shamanstone Over? Edwin Bites the Dust! Our Thoughts on the Recent Hearthstone Balance Changes
I dislike the BG minion change. Now it becomes an useless tier 6, only usable as a triple, maybe.
Wish they would nerf the stupid amounts of damage already.
(Wild) Hunter card in Shaman
Brann was a 5/5, so it was actually Bandersmosh. Your opponent got lucky.
Is Shamanstone Over? Edwin Bites the Dust! Our Thoughts on the Recent Hearthstone Balance Changes
they already explained the edwin nerf in the patchnotes...
Dev Comment: The last few weeks have been the best Edwin has ever performed as an individual card (the highest win rate card in multiple Rogue archetypes). Alongside cards like Foxy Fraud and Shadowstep, the frequency of early 8/8 or 10/10 Edwin VanCleefs reached a point we are no longer comfortable with. We want to evaluate how the rest of Rogue's kit performs without this very powerful iteration of Edwin. Cards like Foxy Fraud, Swindle, and Prize Plunderer are important pieces for future expansions and card interactions, so we'll be keeping close tabs on how they perform with the influx of new cards and Edwin's nerf.
Is Shamanstone Over? Edwin Bites the Dust! Our Thoughts on the Recent Hearthstone Balance Changes
Also, I really looked and noticed Edwin has a fancy ruffled shirt.
(Wild) Hunter card in Shaman
I haven't played while, ever but I am bored of standard and wanted to give it a try after 3 years.
I played a few games but on the 4th someone had Dinotamer Brann, that they played from there Shaman deck.
How did that happen, did he cheat/use a bug and is this common occurrence because it guarantied my loss and it was a bit unfair.
Proof is here: https://hsreplay.net/replay/PuvAcapMMs8gLK9CxcJikC
Legends of Runeterra is Getting a Co-Operative Lab Experience Next Week on January 13 - Here's What We Know
Wow... Hearthstone should've had something like this years ago.
Is Shamanstone Over? Edwin Bites the Dust! Our Thoughts on the Recent Hearthstone Balance Changes
They seem well though out and not too heavy handed. I like rogue and Edwin and will continue to play them. I'm on the fence about dusting the knucks because I didn't like playing evolve Shaman. I also wonder if this forces shamans to contest the early game, so maybe that more spells and corruptor build?
OH, and there was a comment somehwre like they want to see how rogue performs for the future, like, with foxy and swindle and combo and such. If that's the way, then I'm enthused, as I like that playstyle. But Whirlkick and lackeys (miscreant) are leaving soon (right?)...
And there I go a-ramblin' again.
Edwin VanCleef and Boggspine Knuckles Nerfed In Today's Surprise Hearthstone Balance Patch
I had never considered it this way before, but Seline is similar to an 8-mana Mind Control. You don't copy whatever effects the minion had, but you will have 1 more health and normally have more attack too. Of course mechanically she has nothing to do with MC, which is why it looks like she doesn't represent the class very well. And I guess it doesn't help that hard removal isn't anything unique to priest.
As an aside (since I don't think anyone else is bothering to read our whole discussion) I want to say I do genuinely respect your opinions despite often disagreeing with them. I saw you get justifiably angry at a few disrespectful comments below, and while I doubt they are going to apologise, I can at least make it 100% clear that I am no enemy :)
Kaldheim Card Spoilers for January 8 - 20 New Cards and Counting
Foretell seems awfully strong, particularly if it costs no net mana. It lets you save a card from discard and other hand stealing/surveillance effects, stash a card from overdrawing, and spend unused mana for a cheap surprise play later. I mean it seemed good even when it cost one net mana (Alrund's Epiphany, Cosmos Charger), but some of these other Foretell cards like Ravenform have no net cost. Yikes!
Introducing SquadOV: New Companion App for BGs & Constructed
Hey everyone @ Outof.Cards
My friend Mike and I have been wanting a way to better (more smoothly and seamlessly) review each others’ VODs. The current options out there are either clunky, makes sharing POVs with friends difficult, or are missing key decision points (eg: discover options). So we came up with SquadOV: our (humble) attempt to make sharing easier with friends and to ensure that no bit of information is missed when watching replays. It's also totally free, no ads or anything.
Here are some sample pictures
Check us out now at SquadOV.gg!
Summary of Features:
FAQ:
Thanks again guys and please let us know what you think :)
Rewards Track: Current progress
Oh, didn´t think of that. I think it´s obvious I don´t play Rogue.. at all :P But will deff try this, thanks!
(I owe you a snowball for this too :D)
ON TOPIC: I´ve just hit lvl 100 with paid track. So it took me a week from lvl 80 to 100 (quests along with XP achievements).
Edwin VanCleef and Boggspine Knuckles Nerfed In Today's Surprise Hearthstone Balance Patch
Satine is bad thougj,spending almost if nto entire turn in lategame to remove 1minion is hoenstly not good. Selien would be inetresting at like 6 mana 6/1 with same effect much better control and still allows for tempo aswell which i feel she is kinda mleant to be. And wpuld come down on tme still. And blizz sees her as doing priesty things,cause shadow themed (barly really) and is removal so priest identity.
With stat boost xaril is good but 3/2 stats on 4 drop then gott spend 2more mana is just to weak to few stat for his cost and unlike like sonya (who was/is niche still ) isnt cheap enough that can combi it with other stuff in same turn cause he +potions cost 6mana nad thats msot of turn gone already. If was 3 2/2 could do questin on 3, then xaril +potion on 4 and be far more ok satt wise and on curve play.
Edwin VanCleef and Boggspine Knuckles Nerfed In Today's Surprise Hearthstone Balance Patch
In some metas yes, but I don't think he's a fundamentally weak card. With a bit of miracle rogue support he can pull his weight. Plus, I wouldn't be against a small stat buff to a 4/2 or 3/3 if need be. If the stats are refined he can feel like a card that would be considered in lots of archetypes, without being an auto-include.
Perhaps more than any other cards, Classic class legendaries should excite players about class mechanics. Edwin's design was good in this regard as he had a serious reward for stringing several cards together, but some are much less successful. E.g. I would say Natalie Seline is a very bad design for Classic legendary because it doesn't get anyone interested in priest. She's not a particularly bad card (it hasn't helped that aggro has dominated all year), she just doesn't invite you to do any priestly things. Xaril's strength, on the other hand, is that he is an open invitation to try out almost all the class has to offer, which makes him a great ambassador for the class.
Perhaps I'll make a thread about my thoughts on this over the weekend. I'd be interested to hear everyone else's views on what makes a good Classic legendary.
Edwin VanCleef and Boggspine Knuckles Nerfed In Today's Surprise Hearthstone Balance Patch
yeah that makes sense, although I think alot of people are also hoping to have her as a new rogue hero portrait.
but hey, who knows what'll happen this year.
We still got a mid expansion to look forward and junk
How Champion Mastery Works in Legends of Runeterra
This is very cool, especially considering that cosmetics seem to be LoR’s main income stream. And now they’re making a new type just to give away?
Edwin VanCleef and Boggspine Knuckles Nerfed In Today's Surprise Hearthstone Balance Patch
And he'd be super weak in standard aswell, it be classic Yeah but classic shouldnt gabrage tier either. It should still be something decentt/Good enough and xairl wouldnt make it in standard at all either
Edwin VanCleef and Boggspine Knuckles Nerfed In Today's Surprise Hearthstone Balance Patch
Come on, don't be like that. There are many possible reasons for spelling errors, and none of them call for mockery.