@Sykomyke What do you mean by "abusing" the Charge mechanic? As any other mechanic or synergy, it has its legitimate use in trying to win. Anything that the game code allows (without external programs or hacking) is fair game. There's no difference between not using those cards to play the game and win and having them nerfed or HOF'ed.
I would even go as far that interactions that are overlooked or rare (Nozdormu skipping turns) are fair game and it's Blizzard's responsibility to fix them.
In the interest of not leaving this forum empty, I submit to you my Shadow Ashe control deck. I know I posted this on the General Forums about a month back and that thread didn't get much activity; however I'll post it again here just because I find this deck so cool and NO ONE is playing it. Your Plan A Win Con is just what you would expect: use an Elise spider package with Ashe splashed in to get ahead on board. However if you do get behind, you can The Ruination the entire board away and fall back on your secret weapon: The Harrowing. If you've juiced enough Ashe into your rez pool, you'll get an ephemeral cavalry of 6/4 attackers, each of which will make one of your opponents minions unable to block. So much fun!
Definition: Ez decks are also know as a Combo or "Exodia" deck. Its main purpose is to stall the game untill certain conditions are met, then perform an OTK. (One Turn Kill: multiple plays that takes down the nexus from 20 -> 0 in a single turn) The OTK combo is a concept that exists in most card games, usually being very strong versus slow decks and weak versus aggro decks.
About your post: Playing behind is part of their gameplay. You were never ahead to begin with. In the current meta, if you re not 1 card away from finishing the game around Turn 8, then you are already behind. Each turn you delay, you fall more and more behind. Those decks requires a great amount of skill to play optimally, but i agree its not very fun to play against.
Personal opinion: I also dislike the very existence of OTK decks, because there is nothing that can be done exept: FINISHING THE GAME BEFORE THEY WIN! Just imagine there is reaper hidden in your match whispering: You only have X turns left before you DIE!
This concept sets a timer and puts a lot of pressure on the oponnent. So in order to win, its necessary to build a deck in a certain way that allows to close games before X turn, where X is the average turn the OTK assembles their combo. This limits a lot of deck build creativity and pushes many decks out of the meta. For example, one of the reasosn i believe Vladimir doesn't see any play despite many recent buffs on the archetype, its because he lacks an explosive finisher so can't beat ez wich is pretty popular right now.
I am ok with OTK existing but as a guy who likes to build OOTB decks, i would probably be happier if they didn't.
Dude this "spoons" guy has to be the rudest person I've met on this site...
Also, yeah, no, contrary to their belief, runettra doesn't treat elusive as if it were 0 mana, if that was the case, Cithria of Cloudfield would have elusive, Greenglade Duo would cost 1, etc.
Though in fairness to the argument, I'm sure some of these cards would still be played if they were nerfed further, treating elusive as if it were a 1.5 - 2 mana keyword, but what they could ALSO do is maybe perhaps make elusive only work on their first attack / strike, or introduce a keyword that can block elusive (much like Magic's reach), etc.
As an Ezreal player imma tell you a controversial secret that will probably land me in a sea of many downvotes
Just kill the Ezreal. It is, in my opinion, generally a good idea to have a few spells that can deal with low hp, low attack, backrow or elusive units (I mean, what's an Ezreal player gonna do against a Culling Strike?)
But no really, I don't understand how you could possibly take 20 damage, in a winning position, from a "few spells that don't do damage normally", that's 10 spells, what was he playing, poison puffcap Ezreal?? Edit: I forgot Dawn and Dusk was a card and is incredibly stupid with Karma
I think that cards like Shadow Assassin are a problem
Agreed. I'm not going to whine about elusives in general, but Kinkou Lifeblade costing 4 mana while Shadow Assassin costs 3 boggles my mind. And I agree that Greenglade Duo may be a bit overtuned. I'd nerf it to 1 attack rather than upping the mana cost.
wrong. they give elusive to cards as if elusive keyword is worth 0 mana. you're just wrong sorry
We need to come up with standard list of counters to beat Elusives when someone complains about Elusives: Every challenger units. Purify Get Excited. Thermogenic Blast Vengeance Ghost Mystic Shot Single Combat Every Frostbite Card Culling Strike Whirling Death Death Mark Black Spear Every Stun Card Avalanche The Box Will of Ionia Detain Grasp of the Undying Possession Ruination
1v1 me with any of that while i play elusives. private message me and ill give you my game name so i can show you how stupid you are.
Her level up is hard to do but it's fine, she is good as is..
I would say her level is hard to rush, but not necessarily hard to do. I think most games that go 10+ rounds, those first 10 rounds include both players taking nexus damage on at least 3 of them without either making special effort.
so its not fair to lose from 20 life after winning the game the entire time. allowing people to have wins stolen from them in this way will make people stop playing your game. honestly its really bad game design to allow a deck to lose and be behind for 10 turns, then kill their opponent from 20 with a few spells. none of witch even deal damage to them normally. please fix this before your entire player base leaves and stops playing. im not ok with having my games stolen from me by this skilless and i do mean SKILLESS ezreal deck. I will concede to every ezreal karma deck i see and i think everyone else should too. boycott this deck and refuse to play against them. refuse to let them have any fun.
Here's what happened. I'm playing Tempo Demon Hunter (yes, yes, I'm a real bastard, I know, just wanted to grab up some easy ranks before the second nerfs hit). Drop my Imprisoned Antaen on curve (cuz I like winning). He wakes up and sprays his 10 damage all over the place, then my opponent plays Maiev Shadowsong and puts him back to sleep. Two turns later, he wakes back up and guess what? Ten more damage to my enemy's board and face.
Just wanted to put this out there for anyone who hasn't seen this interaction.
On a related note, I've also seen buffed minions put to sleep by Maiev, and wake up with their buffs intact. Also good to know.
To be fair, this interaction was entirely expected. The new dormant minions have a two part ability. One puts them to sleep, one awakens them. If you can put the minion back to a dormant state, the minion text clearly say what will happen when it is awaken again.
But thanks for the heads up anyway, its always nice to have confirmation ;-)
Another interesting thing about Maiev, she doesn't work well with Charge. One time I played Leeroy Jenkins, punched my opponent for 6 damage, then put him asleep to guarantee another attack. But lo and behold two turns later Leeroy awoke and couldn't attack. I am not sure if it is suppose to work like this, but it shouldn't.
Show Spoiler
But conversely she does work with Charge - hence the Raging Worgen OTK I got hit with yesterday. For some reason the code interprets that spell as "wake up without any sleeping sickness" so it can hit face immediately regardless of the actual spell text.
I also tried to use her to keep a dormant minion asleep for another 2 turns to delay its wake-up, but alas that does not work.
Show Spoiler
I just built an OTK deck featuring Raging Worgen, Maiev Shadowsong, and Charge alongside some buffs and Bloodsworn Mercenary. I played the Worgen, gave it Charge, then put it to sleep. When he woke up he kept the buff and still had Charge, and he could go face. But the copies I summoned with the Mercenary couldn't go face. Weird.
Seems pretty normal actually. You played Worgen on a previous turn, gave it Charge, and put it to sleep.
Charge has two features.
-Give a friendly minion Charge.
-Minion can't attack face this turn. Keyword here is THIS TURN.
Worgen Goes to sleep.
Wakes up 2 turns later Still has charge. But it was played 2 turns ago so code says "good to go buddy, you go face all day!"
You play bloodsworn merc. Copies were just summoned this turn. Due to the way charge (the buff card) is coded, they can immediately attack, but they can't go face because the copies haven't waited a turn.
As an addendum: While I applaud ya'lls creativity. Gonna be completely frank for a second...
Why are you trying to abuse charge into OTKs? You do realize that blizzard is trying to kill charge (the mechanic, not the card)...right? It's a mechanic that has created way too many problems, the cards it's been associated with have either gotten nerfed into oblivion or been hall of famed. It's clear as daylight that rush is the replacement to charge, the younger balanced brother of charge.
If by some chance this Charge OTK stuff becomes even SLIGHTLY relevant, the only thing you're going to succeed in doing is either getting those associated cards either nerfed, HoF'd or outright reworked.
It reminds me of the saying "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus" (i.e. Blizzard)
Yeah I don't see it taking off in any real way given that it looses hard to other decks prevalent in the meta (Ramp Druid & Res Priest and their walls of big taunts) - I lost to it as I was playing Spell-Only Mage. It just didn't make much sense as a card interaction to me but your explanation is a little clearer.
However, I 100% believe they should just change that card to "give a minion Rush" and be done with it.
I think her level 1 is very good as is I mean it's frostbites and makes a card vulnerable, sure it's much better when you can attack.. but it's not the end of the game if you play her as a defensive card at least she fostbites a target which is worth 3 mana as a spell and 1 mana as a unit so she already goes above the vanilla test on her worst case, also she got overwhelm!.
Her level up is hard to do but it's fine, she is good as is..
I think she can fit really well within an ashe deck since the second champ slot in the deck is often empty and she has some synergy... in that deck you don't level her up but she is great as a support card..
I agree on the assessment she is not an aggro card but aggro decks might use her cause of the pseudo challenger + overwhelm?
Another interesting thing about Maiev, she doesn't work well with Charge. One time I played Leeroy Jenkins, punched my opponent for 6 damage, then put him asleep to guarantee another attack. But lo and behold two turns later Leeroy awoke and couldn't attack. I am not sure if it is suppose to work like this, but it shouldn't.
But conversely she does work with Charge - hence the Raging Worgen OTK I got hit with yesterday. For some reason the code interprets that spell as "wake up without any sleeping sickness" so it can hit face immediately regardless of the actual spell text.
I also tried to use her to keep a dormant minion asleep for another 2 turns to delay its wake-up, but alas that does not work.
I just built an OTK deck featuring Raging Worgen, Maiev Shadowsong, and Charge alongside some buffs and Bloodsworn Mercenary. I played the Worgen, gave it Charge, then put it to sleep. When he woke up he kept the buff and still had Charge, and he could go face. But the copies I summoned with the Mercenary couldn't go face. Weird.
Seems pretty normal actually. You played Worgen on a previous turn, gave it Charge, and put it to sleep.
Charge has two features.
-Give a friendly minion Charge.
-Minion can't attack face this turn. Keyword here is THIS TURN.
Worgen Goes to sleep.
Wakes up 2 turns later Still has charge. But it was played 2 turns ago so code says "good to go buddy, you go face all day!"
You play bloodsworn merc. Copies were just summoned this turn. Due to the way charge (the buff card) is coded, they can immediately attack, but they can't go face because the copies haven't waited a turn.
As an addendum: While I applaud ya'lls creativity. Gonna be completely frank for a second...
Why are you trying to abuse charge into OTKs? You do realize that blizzard is trying to kill charge (the mechanic, not the card)...right? It's a mechanic that has created way too many problems, the cards it's been associated with have either gotten nerfed into oblivion or been hall of famed. It's clear as daylight that rush is the replacement to charge, the younger balanced brother of charge.
If by some chance this Charge OTK stuff becomes even SLIGHTLY relevant, the only thing you're going to succeed in doing is either getting those associated cards either nerfed, HoF'd or outright reworked.
It reminds me of the saying "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus" (i.e. Blizzard)
Greetings, fellow LoR Card Discussion forum-browsers!
In the future, this forum will be mostly populated by threads about specific cards as they're announced. Since we don't have that yet, though, I'd like to propose: which individual card do YOU think the LoR community is most polarized about--i.e., some many vigorously argue its too powerful while many also argue its perfectly balanced and/or undertuned?
I will submit Shadow Assassin. I know there are flashier candidates, but those all tend to be tent-poles that you build your deck around. Riot previously said this card was the most played card in the game, and I believe it--she is probably the single most independently-valuable card in the game. However, every region should have "good" cards, and there will also be a best "good" card. E.g., think of Omen Hawk, who has enough value to earn a spot in most Frejlord decks and yet we'd be pressed to argue he is too powerful. The question is: is Assassin too good or is she just-right good? I've seen convincing arguments on both sides.
EDIT: doh! I started this thread because it was empty at the time, but by the time I finished, Arthas had already started auto-posting. :-P
I was about to say that all the champions they showcased in these videos are also the ones present on those awesome looking backgrounds in the in-game menu, and then I remembered that they showcased Braum and not Ashe... *disappointed*
Legends of Runeterra - New Video for the Ionia Champion Showcase Featuring Yasuo
The LoR version of 0/10 Yasuo main
PSA: Don't use Maiev to put Dormant minions back to sleep!
@Sykomyke What do you mean by "abusing" the Charge mechanic? As any other mechanic or synergy, it has its legitimate use in trying to win. Anything that the game code allows (without external programs or hacking) is fair game. There's no difference between not using those cards to play the game and win and having them nerfed or HOF'ed.
I would even go as far that interactions that are overlooked or rare (Nozdormu skipping turns) are fair game and it's Blizzard's responsibility to fix them.
Shadow Ashe (Frejlord + SI Control)
Greetings, fellow Deckbuilding & Sharing forum-browsers!
In the interest of not leaving this forum empty, I submit to you my Shadow Ashe control deck. I know I posted this on the General Forums about a month back and that thread didn't get much activity; however I'll post it again here just because I find this deck so cool and NO ONE is playing it. Your Plan A Win Con is just what you would expect: use an Elise spider package with Ashe splashed in to get ahead on board. However if you do get behind, you can The Ruination the entire board away and fall back on your secret weapon: The Harrowing. If you've juiced enough Ashe into your rez pool, you'll get an ephemeral cavalry of 6/4 attackers, each of which will make one of your opponents minions unable to block. So much fun!
ez karma...
Definition:
Ez decks are also know as a Combo or "Exodia" deck.
Its main purpose is to stall the game untill certain conditions are met, then perform an OTK. (One Turn Kill: multiple plays that takes down the nexus from 20 -> 0 in a single turn)
The OTK combo is a concept that exists in most card games, usually being very strong versus slow decks and weak versus aggro decks.
About your post:
Playing behind is part of their gameplay. You were never ahead to begin with. In the current meta, if you re not 1 card away from finishing the game around Turn 8, then you are already behind. Each turn you delay, you fall more and more behind.
Those decks requires a great amount of skill to play optimally, but i agree its not very fun to play against.
Personal opinion:
I also dislike the very existence of OTK decks, because there is nothing that can be done exept:
FINISHING THE GAME BEFORE THEY WIN!
Just imagine there is reaper hidden in your match whispering: You only have X turns left before you DIE!
This concept sets a timer and puts a lot of pressure on the oponnent. So in order to win, its necessary to build a deck in a certain way that allows to close games before X turn, where X is the average turn the OTK assembles their combo.
This limits a lot of deck build creativity and pushes many decks out of the meta. For example, one of the reasosn i believe Vladimir doesn't see any play despite many recent buffs on the archetype, its because he lacks an explosive finisher so can't beat ez wich is pretty popular right now.
I am ok with OTK existing but as a guy who likes to build OOTB decks, i would probably be happier if they didn't.
uninstalling until elusive is fixed
Dude this "spoons" guy has to be the rudest person I've met on this site...
Also, yeah, no, contrary to their belief, runettra doesn't treat elusive as if it were 0 mana, if that was the case, Cithria of Cloudfield would have elusive, Greenglade Duo would cost 1, etc.
Though in fairness to the argument, I'm sure some of these cards would still be played if they were nerfed further, treating elusive as if it were a 1.5 - 2 mana keyword, but what they could ALSO do is maybe perhaps make elusive only work on their first attack / strike, or introduce a keyword that can block elusive (much like Magic's reach), etc.
ez karma...
As an Ezreal player imma tell you a controversial secret that will probably land me in a sea of many downvotes
Just kill the Ezreal.
It is, in my opinion, generally a good idea to have a few spells that can deal with low hp, low attack, backrow or elusive units (I mean, what's an Ezreal player gonna do against a Culling Strike?)
But no really, I don't understand how you could possibly take 20 damage, in a winning position, from a "few spells that don't do damage normally", that's 10 spells, what was he playing, poison puffcap Ezreal??
Edit: I forgot Dawn and Dusk was a card and is incredibly stupid with Karma
uninstalling until elusive is fixed
sorry it upsets you to hear the truth. this kid probly plays elusives and thinks hes good.
uninstalling until elusive is fixed
u mad
uninstalling until elusive is fixed
wrong. they give elusive to cards as if elusive keyword is worth 0 mana. you're just wrong sorry
uninstalling until elusive is fixed
1v1 me with any of that while i play elusives. private message me and ill give you my game name so i can show you how stupid you are.
Millhouse is Getting Nerfed in Hearthstone's Battlegrounds Next Week, Larger Update Scheduled for Mid-Expansion
Yeah I was suprised myself. Some people even said that my suggestiong is nonsense... but here we are =)
uninstalling until elusive is fixed
yikes most of the comments here are pretty salty and toxic. maybe yall should take a break from the game.
New Freljord Unit - Sejuani
I would say her level is hard to rush, but not necessarily hard to do. I think most games that go 10+ rounds, those first 10 rounds include both players taking nexus damage on at least 3 of them without either making special effort.
ez karma...
so its not fair to lose from 20 life after winning the game the entire time. allowing people to have wins stolen from them in this way will make people stop playing your game. honestly its really bad game design to allow a deck to lose and be behind for 10 turns, then kill their opponent from 20 with a few spells. none of witch even deal damage to them normally. please fix this before your entire player base leaves and stops playing. im not ok with having my games stolen from me by this skilless and i do mean SKILLESS ezreal deck. I will concede to every ezreal karma deck i see and i think everyone else should too. boycott this deck and refuse to play against them. refuse to let them have any fun.
Card which the community is most polarized about?
Dont even get me started on Omen Hawk, whenever i see it played against me on T1 i just want to concede. I hate that card with a passion.
PSA: Don't use Maiev to put Dormant minions back to sleep!
To be fair, this interaction was entirely expected. The new dormant minions have a two part ability. One puts them to sleep, one awakens them. If you can put the minion back to a dormant state, the minion text clearly say what will happen when it is awaken again.
But thanks for the heads up anyway, its always nice to have confirmation ;-)
PSA: Don't use Maiev to put Dormant minions back to sleep!
Yeah I don't see it taking off in any real way given that it looses hard to other decks prevalent in the meta (Ramp Druid & Res Priest and their walls of big taunts) - I lost to it as I was playing Spell-Only Mage. It just didn't make much sense as a card interaction to me but your explanation is a little clearer.
However, I 100% believe they should just change that card to "give a minion Rush" and be done with it.
New Freljord Card - Ruthless Raider
A new Common Freljord Unit, Ruthless Raider, has been revealed!
Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!
Learn more about Set 2
Head on over to our dedicated guide for Set 2!
New Freljord Spell - Fury of the North
A new Common Freljord Spell, Fury of the North, has been revealed!
Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!
Learn more about Set 2
Head on over to our dedicated guide for Set 2!
New Freljord Card - Ember Maiden
A new Rare Freljord Unit, Ember Maiden, has been revealed!
Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!
Learn more about Set 2
Head on over to our dedicated guide for Set 2!
New Freljord Unit - Sejuani
I think her level 1 is very good as is I mean it's frostbites and makes a card vulnerable, sure it's much better when you can attack.. but it's not the end of the game if you play her as a defensive card at least she fostbites a target which is worth 3 mana as a spell and 1 mana as a unit so she already goes above the vanilla test on her worst case, also she got overwhelm!.
Her level up is hard to do but it's fine, she is good as is..
I think she can fit really well within an ashe deck since the second champ slot in the deck is often empty and she has some synergy... in that deck you don't level her up but she is great as a support card..
I agree on the assessment she is not an aggro card but aggro decks might use her cause of the pseudo challenger + overwhelm?
PSA: Don't use Maiev to put Dormant minions back to sleep!
Seems pretty normal actually. You played Worgen on a previous turn, gave it Charge, and put it to sleep.
Charge has two features.
-Give a friendly minion Charge.
-Minion can't attack face this turn. Keyword here is THIS TURN.
Worgen Goes to sleep.
Wakes up 2 turns later Still has charge. But it was played 2 turns ago so code says "good to go buddy, you go face all day!"
You play bloodsworn merc. Copies were just summoned this turn. Due to the way charge (the buff card) is coded, they can immediately attack, but they can't go face because the copies haven't waited a turn.
As an addendum: While I applaud ya'lls creativity. Gonna be completely frank for a second...
Why are you trying to abuse charge into OTKs? You do realize that blizzard is trying to kill charge (the mechanic, not the card)...right? It's a mechanic that has created way too many problems, the cards it's been associated with have either gotten nerfed into oblivion or been hall of famed. It's clear as daylight that rush is the replacement to charge, the younger balanced brother of charge.
If by some chance this Charge OTK stuff becomes even SLIGHTLY relevant, the only thing you're going to succeed in doing is either getting those associated cards either nerfed, HoF'd or outright reworked.
It reminds me of the saying "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus" (i.e. Blizzard)
Card which the community is most polarized about?
Greetings, fellow LoR Card Discussion forum-browsers!
In the future, this forum will be mostly populated by threads about specific cards as they're announced. Since we don't have that yet, though, I'd like to propose: which individual card do YOU think the LoR community is most polarized about--i.e., some many vigorously argue its too powerful while many also argue its perfectly balanced and/or undertuned?
I will submit Shadow Assassin. I know there are flashier candidates, but those all tend to be tent-poles that you build your deck around. Riot previously said this card was the most played card in the game, and I believe it--she is probably the single most independently-valuable card in the game. However, every region should have "good" cards, and there will also be a best "good" card. E.g., think of Omen Hawk, who has enough value to earn a spot in most Frejlord decks and yet we'd be pressed to argue he is too powerful. The question is: is Assassin too good or is she just-right good? I've seen convincing arguments on both sides.
EDIT: doh! I started this thread because it was empty at the time, but by the time I finished, Arthas had already started auto-posting. :-P
New Freljord Unit - Sejuani
A new Champion Freljord Unit, Sejuani, has been revealed!
Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!
Learn more about Set 2
Head on over to our dedicated guide for Set 2!
Legends of Runeterra - New Video for the Ionia Champion Showcase Featuring Yasuo
I was about to say that all the champions they showcased in these videos are also the ones present on those awesome looking backgrounds in the in-game menu, and then I remembered that they showcased Braum and not Ashe... *disappointed*