Veranus is a very solid card. Better than Equality because it only hits your enemy minions. I will admit, I was disappointed when Veranus was announced, but now I'm very happy that he exists in the Hunter tool-kit.
Given how useful Veranus is in practice, I wonder if there were earlier versions that sounded cooler but performed worse so they settled on the current version.
I only bring this up becuase I remember an interview with Dean Ayala where he said that Reno the Relicologist went through several interations. The earlier versions were more "fun" in the sense of generating crazy spells or higher variance outcomes, but they shipped the current version, which could be viewed as a little boring, because it more consistently regained the board in the midgame which was necessary if Highlander Mage was going to be a thing.
I'm genuinely confused why you'd run Amazing Reno if you're not going to use the hero power. Surely there are better options than burning a card slot and potentially a mulligan opportunity to be able to play a 10 mana Twisting Nether...
I think the Twisting Nether compassion is a little short-selling Reno. It's more like Plague of Death (with the silence-like effect)with a small upside of messing with res priest (Ironically, the deck that runs plague of death) and Mech Paladin. As for why I run Reno, highlander only allows you to have one of each card. Board clears that mage has are Reno the Relicologist, Flamestrike, Blizzard, and Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron (sometimes). I found myself sometimes getting overrun by swarmy decks or ones with enough health to live Reno or Flamestrike. The Amazing Reno allows me to deal with ANY size board, and screw over some decks like the above-mentioned ones or Treant druid with Soul of the Forest. Also, casting the occasional spell may win you games, but eventually, you want to stop when you're close to fatigue if you're worried about drawing cards. That is why I run Amazing Reno, even if it is just for the complete board wipe. (Edit was for spelling)
To be honest I was disappointed by hunter cards this expansion. Corrosive Breath looked awesome and seemed to hint towards some poisonous theme or something related to Emeriss..
Rotnest Drake is great and Diving Gryphon is useful but I really wanted an alternative Emeriss like what they did with Ysera and Alexstraza or I would've loved a legendary dragon with a fun effect but instead we got Veranus.. Equality on a stick! Yay!
Ugh, work suddenly classified OoC as a "gaming site" so it's blocked/I can't check in as often, but I definitely hear you on the fun element of this most recent expansion.
This may be selective memory on my part, but I honestly feel like there's been a noticeable shift towards more "useful" (in the sense of better synergies with competitive archetypes) but also more restrictive cards ever since they made that announcement of trying to build towards specific "class identities" (e.g. Hunters are bad at draw and healing). However, the problem may go back farther as I'm still bummed we went from the unlimited memey possibilities of Stitched Tracker to the more useful/competitive possibilities of Master's Call. MC made midrange beast Hunter super viable when released, but it wasn't flexible enough to enable anything other than the strongest of memes (e.g. Maly Hunter runs Master's Call). Obviously, in terms of game design, they should probably build more cards like Master's Call than Stitched Tracker, but I do miss the ones oriented more towards pure madness/fun (...OK, they did make Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron so I'm probably wrong, haha).
This is all to say that while I can see the usefulness in a lot of the of the DoD and GA Hunter cards, I can also see how you're having less fun with them. Here's how I think about the cards through the lens of Standard:
Dwarven Sharpshooter - Fits nicely in ladder decks and also fits nicely into many memes as it helps you survive the early game to make it to your spicy combos (and can be part of spicy combos like Arcane Fletcher in Standard or Gahz'rilla in Wild)
Corrosive Breath - All forms of Dragon Hunter <3 this and I agree with you that a poison theme would've been cool, especially considering this next little guy...
Primordial Explorer - Love this card for both competitive and memey dragon synergies
Clear the Way - Helps make Quest Hunter ladder-viable before things like Springpaw rotate and is the better of the two side-quests, in my opinion, for meme builds that want extra mana via Licensed Adventurer or card draw via Questing Explorer. However, the interaction with Swarm of Locusts is disappointing to say the least...
Phase Stalker - Fits nicely in ladder decks like Secret Highlander Hunter but also helps the meme folks thin their decks (and survive the early game)
Diving Gryphon - Helps competitive builds this season as card draw is always nice and there are strong Rush minions like Springpaw and Zilliax that you often want to run anyway. Meme decks <3 card draw as well and I currently run this instead of Marked Shot in many builds...though a lot of Rush minions will rotate so this might not be meme-viable in the long run
Toxic Reinforcements - I can see the competitive appeal for face hunting, but this isn't a style that appeals to me so I never include it in memes
Stormhammer - Really strong in competitive Dragon Hunter builds and will hopefully help keep memey Dragon Hunters afloat once they get weaker on the ladder...not a fun card itself though
Dragonbane - Has found some value in competitive builds like Aggro Dragon Hunter and some Highlander builds, but I personally don't find mech builds all that fun meme-wise (i.e. don't see a lot of flexibility in how to build around the Mech tag) and I think this will get worse after SN1P-SN4P and Zilliax rotate
Veranus - Competitively useful in Quest and Highlander builds, but not great fun to play. I would've loved a fun re-working of Emeriss!
Fresh Scent - Not sure if it's being used competitively at the moment, but I definitely think it'll be useful in a ladder-worthy Beast Hunter before it rotates. I also think it has a decent chance of being a fun card for the simple fact that Hunter doesn't usually get buff spells and there are a couple ways to discount and charge with beasts
Chopshop Copter - THE ULTIMATE MEME MACHINE! Doesn't look great for competitve play, but this card alone has caused me to dip into Token Mech Hunter with Witch's Cauldron and Cybertech Chip
Rotnest Drake - love this card for both competitive and meme Dragon Hunters
Upon further review, I feel like most of this season's Hunter cards help fill out a lot of fun decks, but they don't generate a lot of fun in those decks themselves. Whether this balance is more out of line than in previous seasons is a question for another 3-page essay ;D
Highlander mage is in a peculiar spot where it's fantastic against all classes except for hunter. Which is by far the most popular class.
Hunters kill the mages before they can come online and mages need all the survivability they can get.
Wasting one of your mulligan options to look for said survivability for a win condition that you won't ever need anyway is therefore a big no-no.
Thanks for the Feedback. I was thinking more of a solution to a problem than actually deck construction with this post I guess. I guess mage already wins the long game, no need to extra win.
I'm genuinely confused why you'd run Amazing Reno if you're not going to use the hero power. Surely there are better options than burning a card slot and potentially a mulligan opportunity to be able to play a 10 mana Twisting Nether...
Well, for the past 5+ years, history suggest they never change the fundamental of the game.
And be that as it may, honestly, I don't really know what Blizzard would do in the future.
In one side, they have base fans in the millions (on average), on the other, there's a lot of new Card games around. So it's hard to tell. The least I can do, is hope for the best, since I also one of the players that can gain from it. So, let's just sit tight and wait for the announcement. It's basically less than a week.
EDIT. I'm sorry, but if you haven't noticed, we've been off-track from the main article so far. So, yeah. Just wait for the announcement.
I really enjoy playing Highlander mage, especially using The Amazing Reno. However, one thing that I see most people agree on is that his hero power is... lacking, to say the least.
What I was thinking is that you add Raid the Sky Temple into the deck. Maybe you mulligan it back into your deck, or keep it. It depends on what you think that matchup is going to be. Then, after you play reno, you complete the quest and get back a decent hero power, at least one that's better than random spells milling your entire deck. This strat may be to slow, but if it's against Hunter, maybe you just mulligan the quest.
Man, these lands are so cool but it would take forever for me to save up 2500 gems just from drafts. Plus I am already saving up for the master pass, so I don't think I will ever be picking up these lands.
No chance. They would never change the costs. A lot will disagree but, the ratio is balanced. The more you reduce the costs (or increase the dusts), the less people will buy packs, and that is affecting the real world economy. And I think it would do more damage to Blizzard than help F2P players.
So, how to help F2P, but not affecting the economy? I don't know.
Blizzard can choose to either have a steady stream of money, or a steady stream of players. If they make the cost of the game super high, then they might have a nice supply of money, but they will fail to attract any players. Players=money, but if they ask for too much money then they will lose players and thus lose money.
Quite a bit of hilarious speculation in the comments here: “Razakus too broken; Leeching Poison too broken!” Baku/Genn exist, and if you actually played wild, it’s immediately obvious that decks like “Razakus priest” would be terrible even with reverted Raza and an updated decklist.
Since they’ve decided to never touch Baku/Genn, there really isn’t a good reason to not revert all of the nerfs that people have said are “too broken!” Naga Sea Witch, Caverns, Barnes, Aviana, Leeching Poison, etc. They should just let wild be, well, wild. How are the following decks any less frustrating/broken/un-fun/whatever in any significant way: quest mage, secret mage, odd paladin, even shaman, mech paladin, (quest) Mecha’thun warlock, or Darkest Hour warlock? It’s pretty silly to think that, e.g., pre-nerf Leeching Poison mill rogue would even be a strong deck in wild right now. How would you beat quest mage? Darkest Hour with a full board and Nerubian(s), or odd paladin’s unfettered and consistent aggression? The same can be said about pre-nerf Aviana SA decks.
In a world where quest mage and odd/even decks exist, it makes no sense to talk about any nerfed cards being “too broken” if they were reverted today. SN1P-SN4P warlock is the only deck that you could plausibly argue would still be “(too) broken” in a reverted wild meta, but that card wasn’t nerfed directly, so reverting nerfs wouldn’t even resurrect the deck.
From all the Galakrond Shaman nerfed cards I think, like most of you, that unnerf [Hearthstone Card (Invocation of Frost) Not Found] can be fair thing. I'm not a Wild player so I can't theorize about that but I quite liked [Hearthstone Card (Yogg-Saron, Hope's End) Not Found] (out of tournaments).
I think the best way to fix Elusive is to make Elusive a much more neutral keyword found in every region. That way, everyone can play them, and everyone can counter them to some degree.
It will be in some time, i presume.
I mean, If you check the regions of Runeterra, There are all kinds of champions there from lol.
I can give the Leblanc example for noxus, in Legends of Runeterra, There can't be a card with situation of Noxus today because she is a mage. She has magic-related spells, not like Vladimir or combat related how Noxus is shaped right now. That's just an example for how regions might be in future.
However, I don't agree that it will fix the situation about elusives. In my opinion, Elusives should be like Stealth in Hearthstone, if they deal damage, they should lose elusive keyword because after all regions reach elusive keyword, We will find ourselves in a meta with full of elusives with different variations.
It might seem a little problematic for elusive champions like Teemo/Ezreal at first but there is also another solution, Make Elusive keywords permanent for champions like how it is right now and give follower elusive units a text like "After I deal damage, I lose Elusive." or something like that.
There is also another problem with Kinkou Lifeblade. It should have a text like "After I deal damage, I heal your nexus for 2." instead of lifesteal
For Relentless Pursuit, I also agree that it should cost 4 mana but should keep its fast keyword.
There is also another problem with Ephemerals noone ever mentioned here. I feel like Ephemeral units should die after they take some damage. Like when you use a Mystic Shot on a Darkwater Scourge, it should die instantly, This will make Death Mark + Darkwater Scourge combo more situational and they can't just do that against your 1/1 spiderling without a brain just because they want a 5/5 body with lifesteal. Same interaction for Death Lotus against Hecarim and Hecarim's Spectral Riders and also for that cancer card Mark of the Isles.
Mark of the Isles one of the most broken cards in the game. Look other 1-cost one round buff options and compare them with each other;
All of them makes only one thing while Mark of the Isles do the all, Best option to kill a unit with Quick attack, Best option to do lethal, Best option to lifesteal, Best option to removal with buffing a unit(/w Death Mark) etc.
As i said above, Ephemeral units should die if they take some damage from any source. It makes ephemeral interactions more skillful in my opinion. I really hate to see when they changed Darkwater Scourge's ephemeral with one of my Spiderlings or Omen Hawks or Scrap Scuttlers to just have a 5/5 lifesteal on board after they skipped their first 2 turn.
TL;DR
I have these solutions for some broken interactions;
- All Elusive followers (not champions) have a text as "After I deal damage, I lose Elusive." now. - Kinkou Lifeblade has no longer lifesteal. He has a text as "When I deal damage, I heal your nexus for 2 health." now. - Relentless Pursuit 4 mana up from 3. - Ephemerals now dies after they take a damage from any source.
Mageseeker Investigator wording
I won't be mad if someone else wants to do that. I don't remember my reddit username and am very lazy.
Standard Memes
Given how useful Veranus is in practice, I wonder if there were earlier versions that sounded cooler but performed worse so they settled on the current version.
I only bring this up becuase I remember an interview with Dean Ayala where he said that Reno the Relicologist went through several interations. The earlier versions were more "fun" in the sense of generating crazy spells or higher variance outcomes, but they shipped the current version, which could be viewed as a little boring, because it more consistently regained the board in the midgame which was necessary if Highlander Mage was going to be a thing.
Quest in Highlander Mage
I think the Twisting Nether compassion is a little short-selling Reno. It's more like Plague of Death (with the silence-like effect)with a small upside of messing with res priest (Ironically, the deck that runs plague of death) and Mech Paladin. As for why I run Reno, highlander only allows you to have one of each card. Board clears that mage has are Reno the Relicologist, Flamestrike, Blizzard, and Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron (sometimes). I found myself sometimes getting overrun by swarmy decks or ones with enough health to live Reno or Flamestrike. The Amazing Reno allows me to deal with ANY size board, and screw over some decks like the above-mentioned ones or Treant druid with Soul of the Forest. Also, casting the occasional spell may win you games, but eventually, you want to stop when you're close to fatigue if you're worried about drawing cards. That is why I run Amazing Reno, even if it is just for the complete board wipe. (Edit was for spelling)
Standard Memes
Ugh, work suddenly classified OoC as a "gaming site" so it's blocked/I can't check in as often, but I definitely hear you on the fun element of this most recent expansion.
This may be selective memory on my part, but I honestly feel like there's been a noticeable shift towards more "useful" (in the sense of better synergies with competitive archetypes) but also more restrictive cards ever since they made that announcement of trying to build towards specific "class identities" (e.g. Hunters are bad at draw and healing). However, the problem may go back farther as I'm still bummed we went from the unlimited memey possibilities of Stitched Tracker to the more useful/competitive possibilities of Master's Call. MC made midrange beast Hunter super viable when released, but it wasn't flexible enough to enable anything other than the strongest of memes (e.g. Maly Hunter runs Master's Call). Obviously, in terms of game design, they should probably build more cards like Master's Call than Stitched Tracker, but I do miss the ones oriented more towards pure madness/fun (...OK, they did make Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron so I'm probably wrong, haha).
This is all to say that while I can see the usefulness in a lot of the of the DoD and GA Hunter cards, I can also see how you're having less fun with them. Here's how I think about the cards through the lens of Standard:
Upon further review, I feel like most of this season's Hunter cards help fill out a lot of fun decks, but they don't generate a lot of fun in those decks themselves. Whether this balance is more out of line than in previous seasons is a question for another 3-page essay ;D
Quest in Highlander Mage
Thanks for the Feedback. I was thinking more of a solution to a problem than actually deck construction with this post I guess. I guess mage already wins the long game, no need to extra win.
10 Hearthstone Cards are Having Their Nerfs Reverted Including a Year of the Dragon Card
You are confusing "too broken" (Nagalock) with "very consistent" (Genn/Baku).
There is no way Genn/Baku decks are broken, unless they print broken cards that fit those archetypes.
But Even/Odd cannot be broken per se. They are consistent (=solid) at best.
Magic's Unsanctioned Full Art Lands Come to Arena in the March 12 Update
Yeah, little disappointed they aren't coming out for Gold like the Nyx full arts =(
Oh well, I already have enough lands anyway so I don't really need the Unsactioned ones...
Quest in Highlander Mage
I'm genuinely confused why you'd run Amazing Reno if you're not going to use the hero power. Surely there are better options than burning a card slot and potentially a mulligan opportunity to be able to play a 10 mana Twisting Nether...
10 Hearthstone Cards are Having Their Nerfs Reverted Including a Year of the Dragon Card
I'll take that bet
Quest in Highlander Mage
Highlander mage is in a peculiar spot where it's fantastic against all classes except for hunter. Which is by far the most popular class.
Hunters kill the mages before they can come online and mages need all the survivability they can get.
Wasting one of your mulligan options to look for said survivability for a win condition that you won't ever need anyway is therefore a big no-no.
Hearthstone Summit 2020: Mage and Hunter will be the most fun classes to play..
Well, for the past 5+ years, history suggest they never change the fundamental of the game.
And be that as it may, honestly, I don't really know what Blizzard would do in the future.
In one side, they have base fans in the millions (on average), on the other, there's a lot of new Card games around. So it's hard to tell. The least I can do, is hope for the best, since I also one of the players that can gain from it. So, let's just sit tight and wait for the announcement. It's basically less than a week.
EDIT. I'm sorry, but if you haven't noticed, we've been off-track from the main article so far. So, yeah. Just wait for the announcement.
Quest in Highlander Mage
Hey guys, lurker doing his first post
I really enjoy playing Highlander mage, especially using The Amazing Reno. However, one thing that I see most people agree on is that his hero power is... lacking, to say the least.
What I was thinking is that you add Raid the Sky Temple into the deck. Maybe you mulligan it back into your deck, or keep it. It depends on what you think that matchup is going to be. Then, after you play reno, you complete the quest and get back a decent hero power, at least one that's better than random spells milling your entire deck. This strat may be to slow, but if it's against Hunter, maybe you just mulligan the quest.
Open to Hear Suggestions
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
Great start to my day - 10 games of casual, one win. 9 games in a row of opponents drawing the nuts or playing Hecarim in casual.
Magic's Unsanctioned Full Art Lands Come to Arena in the March 12 Update
Man, these lands are so cool but it would take forever for me to save up 2500 gems just from drafts. Plus I am already saving up for the master pass, so I don't think I will ever be picking up these lands.
Hearthstone Summit 2020: Mage and Hunter will be the most fun classes to play..
Blizzard can choose to either have a steady stream of money, or a steady stream of players. If they make the cost of the game super high, then they might have a nice supply of money, but they will fail to attract any players. Players=money, but if they ask for too much money then they will lose players and thus lose money.
10 Hearthstone Cards are Having Their Nerfs Reverted Including a Year of the Dragon Card
I'll bet a million dollars that they are going to un-nerf Undertaker.
10 Hearthstone Cards are Having Their Nerfs Reverted Including a Year of the Dragon Card
Quite a bit of hilarious speculation in the comments here: “Razakus too broken; Leeching Poison too broken!” Baku/Genn exist, and if you actually played wild, it’s immediately obvious that decks like “Razakus priest” would be terrible even with reverted Raza and an updated decklist.
Since they’ve decided to never touch Baku/Genn, there really isn’t a good reason to not revert all of the nerfs that people have said are “too broken!” Naga Sea Witch, Caverns, Barnes, Aviana, Leeching Poison, etc. They should just let wild be, well, wild. How are the following decks any less frustrating/broken/un-fun/whatever in any significant way: quest mage, secret mage, odd paladin, even shaman, mech paladin, (quest) Mecha’thun warlock, or Darkest Hour warlock? It’s pretty silly to think that, e.g., pre-nerf Leeching Poison mill rogue would even be a strong deck in wild right now. How would you beat quest mage? Darkest Hour with a full board and Nerubian(s), or odd paladin’s unfettered and consistent aggression? The same can be said about pre-nerf Aviana SA decks.
In a world where quest mage and odd/even decks exist, it makes no sense to talk about any nerfed cards being “too broken” if they were reverted today. SN1P-SN4P warlock is the only deck that you could plausibly argue would still be “(too) broken” in a reverted wild meta, but that card wasn’t nerfed directly, so reverting nerfs wouldn’t even resurrect the deck.
10 Hearthstone Cards are Having Their Nerfs Reverted Including a Year of the Dragon Card
mana wyrn is not a wild card, neither a year of the dragon card
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
macadow#2894
EU
Trade only, you go first.
10 Hearthstone Cards are Having Their Nerfs Reverted Including a Year of the Dragon Card
Unnerf Mana Wyrm!
Magic's Unsanctioned Full Art Lands Come to Arena in the March 12 Update
^
I made an adjustment to the post to make this more clear. I see how it could have been confused.
Magic's Unsanctioned Full Art Lands Come to Arena in the March 12 Update
2500 Gems gets you the entire set of lands as I understand it.
10 Hearthstone Cards are Having Their Nerfs Reverted Including a Year of the Dragon Card
From all the Galakrond Shaman nerfed cards I think, like most of you, that unnerf [Hearthstone Card (Invocation of Frost) Not Found] can be fair thing. I'm not a Wild player so I can't theorize about that but I quite liked [Hearthstone Card (Yogg-Saron, Hope's End) Not Found] (out of tournaments).
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Razorwind#2588
Region: NA online now
Trade Only?: You go first but I can show you my quest
Elusive units still a problem - Relentless Persuit is too cheap
It will be in some time, i presume.
I mean, If you check the regions of Runeterra, There are all kinds of champions there from lol.
I can give the Leblanc example for noxus, in Legends of Runeterra, There can't be a card with situation of Noxus today because she is a mage. She has magic-related spells, not like Vladimir or combat related how Noxus is shaped right now. That's just an example for how regions might be in future.
However, I don't agree that it will fix the situation about elusives. In my opinion, Elusives should be like Stealth in Hearthstone, if they deal damage, they should lose elusive keyword because after all regions reach elusive keyword, We will find ourselves in a meta with full of elusives with different variations.
It might seem a little problematic for elusive champions like Teemo/Ezreal at first but there is also another solution, Make Elusive keywords permanent for champions like how it is right now and give follower elusive units a text like "After I deal damage, I lose Elusive." or something like that.
There is also another problem with Kinkou Lifeblade. It should have a text like "After I deal damage, I heal your nexus for 2." instead of lifesteal
For Relentless Pursuit, I also agree that it should cost 4 mana but should keep its fast keyword.
There is also another problem with Ephemerals noone ever mentioned here. I feel like Ephemeral units should die after they take some damage. Like when you use a Mystic Shot on a Darkwater Scourge, it should die instantly, This will make Death Mark + Darkwater Scourge combo more situational and they can't just do that against your 1/1 spiderling without a brain just because they want a 5/5 body with lifesteal. Same interaction for Death Lotus against Hecarim and Hecarim's Spectral Riders and also for that cancer card Mark of the Isles.
Mark of the Isles one of the most broken cards in the game. Look other 1-cost one round buff options and compare them with each other;
-Elixir of Wrath
-Elixir of Iron
-Radiant Strike
-Rush
All of them makes only one thing while Mark of the Isles do the all, Best option to kill a unit with Quick attack, Best option to do lethal, Best option to lifesteal, Best option to removal with buffing a unit(/w Death Mark) etc.
As i said above, Ephemeral units should die if they take some damage from any source. It makes ephemeral interactions more skillful in my opinion. I really hate to see when they changed Darkwater Scourge's ephemeral with one of my Spiderlings or Omen Hawks or Scrap Scuttlers to just have a 5/5 lifesteal on board after they skipped their first 2 turn.
TL;DR
I have these solutions for some broken interactions;
- All Elusive followers (not champions) have a text as "After I deal damage, I lose Elusive." now.
- Kinkou Lifeblade has no longer lifesteal. He has a text as "When I deal damage, I heal your nexus for 2 health." now.
- Relentless Pursuit 4 mana up from 3.
- Ephemerals now dies after they take a damage from any source.