Honestly it's strong just as a 3/3 that nerfs opponents' cards for a turn, the +1/+0 is a sidenote which isn't particularly necessary.
Hm... Maybe I'm undervalueing the attack debuff a bit. It's just that spiders aren't exactly known for their high health, anyway, so your opponent shouldn't have too much trouble taking out the weak ones even with one less attack. I guess the debuff could be decent when used defensively, potentially saving yourself from up to 6 nexus damage that turn.
Well first of all, I create the post to see what you think of certain spells and how the barrier is implemented in this game.
I will start with Barrier- I think in certain aspects it is poorly implemented:
-It seems good to me that it takes a turn since you avoid abuse for defense / attack.
-When you are blocking with a card that has a Barrier to one that has overwhelm, it should absorb ALL the damage and not just the part proportional to life I think it makes no sense since the Barrier what it does is just that, absorb the damage ...
-If you use Grasp of the Undying against the barrier it is logical that the barrier disappears but it does not seem logical for the opponent to heal since he has not really absorbed anything.
-Another thing that doesn't convince me is that you can kill a barrier card. I mean with a ruinationBADCARDNAME you can kill her since it is somehow a very expensive card and kill ''everthing'' but with a Culling Strike or Vengeance I think it shouldn't.The barrier is to protect a creature but if there are cards that skip that rule it loses the reason for its use.
With respect to some spells it is clear that this is a beta and there is still much to touch up. I will not extend much on this subject and I will only give an example of many:
It's not logical that Guile is a slow spell that all it does is stun an opponent for 1 mana and skip the turn once you use it, while Vile Feast is a fast spell, it costs 2 mana, drains 1 life and adds a spider in the game and you can continue playing your turn ...
Keywords aren't an issue, necessarily. As noted by others, Elusive is something that needs watching, Deny is something that needs watching. None of the other things you list are even things to think about in terms of busted stuff, let alone worry about.
It's a ridiculous endgame win condition that's barely counterable. Outside of purifying or freeze/stun stalling you can't really deal with him.
And ofc he has fearsome so you can't even chump block him.
He's basically a champion with an epic tag
The counter, at that point, is that your opponent is spending eight mana on a burn effect and an 8/6 fearsome.
If you're still losing the board when they're doing that with their turns, you'd be losing either way. 6+ mana effects are phenomenally powerful in this game, and this one is entirely a burn win condition. As to the thread title - as above, really. If you're at 1 HP, literally any burn will kill you. Who cares if it's an 8-drop, you're dead to a stiff breeze.
Honestly, in a meta where aggression and Elusive are strong, to be complaining about a phenomenally slow, inefficient burn mechanism is endlessly confusing to me.
There's definitely too much Ionia on the ladder, but a lot of their mechanics are easily diffused with silence effects in Demacia. So, I don't think their toolkit is massively problematic.
I do, however, think that Shadow Isles has a bit too many "good in all archetypes" cards. Some examples:
Hapless Aristocrat: Good early game defense for control decks, good spider generation for aggro
Vengeance: Hard removal the can work for mid to late game removal in control or a curve-topper in aggro decks that want to clear your biggest blocker
Glimpse Beyond: Cheap card draw (in a game with relatively little card draw) that you can drop to active useful last breath effects in aggro (e.g. Cursed Keeper), or to get extra value from a chump block in a control deck
Rhasa the Sunderer and Commander Ledros as finishers for aggro or control decks that want something to apply some major, last-minute pressure on board (like dropping Leeroy Jenkins, but it's suitable in many archetypes).
Some of these cards certainly shine more in control vs. aggro, but they have applications, which is why Shadow Isles is so much of the metagame right now. The region just seems way too overtuned.
It's a pretty strong card in and of itself. Honestly it's strong just as a 3/3 that nerfs opponents' cards for a turn, the +1/+0 is a sidenote which isn't particularly necessary. It really messes with Demacia in particular due to its reliance on value trading.
Was making a trash account somewhere, needed a name, let my mind wander. For some reason recalled a daycare I passed on the way to my workplace at the time, 'Step By Step Childcare'. Removed some letters, moved things around a little... there y'go.
Coming off the back of a 7/7 double win (which, admittedly, is not the norm), I can't say I've ever really had issues with Noxian aggro decks in Expedition. I have struggled with Lucian-centric Demacian variants, though, which play similarly - just dependent on keywords rather than stats. I would actually say that early game is something you need only so much of and no more - I find aggro decks don't make it very deep in.
In my experience lately, the vast majority of decks wind up roughly in the 'midrange' camp, so you need a couple firm late-game win conditions or just sheer superior value to carry through.
(Also, if Riot makes a habit of nerfing cards into unplayability or letting a broken meta fester, the problem is bigger than some silly refund can solve.)
They do certainly have a history of doing that on League... just ask Evelynn or Olaf :P
Personally I don't rate the card. It's removal which punishes a lack of removal, and which is, in turn, punished by removal. Running an expensive Deny target which is also ruined by the opponent including cards which they really should be including in their deck is just disrepectful, in my opinion, and asking to be punished. There's also the issue of it shifting your own prioritisation with the Capture target - putting the enemy follower under one of your better allies simply makes them a bigger removal target. Putting them under a weaker ally makes it easier to negate the Capture (as generally a lower value unit will have lower health), and also stop you using them as chaff (or indeed, ever attacking with them, really).
I'm not saying it's unplayable, and if it's what you've got, sure. But in a hypothetical world where you have every card, it's never making it into a deck for me.
I continue to be firmly confident in the meta resolving itself without balance changes. Probably in the form of Hecarim-centric Ephemeral decks steamrolling the Elusives.
I feel like you are making a pretty big assumption here -- namely that Riot achieved the uncanny feat of getting the balance exactly right after exactly one balance patch following a very limited pre-beta event.
The whole point of beta is to fix bugs and address balance problems that come to light when large numbers of players start playing your game.
Riot's stated goal is to have about 10 different decks showing strong representation in the meta at any given time. We are obviously not there yet, and I don't think the meta is going to self-correct enough to get us there unless Elusive takes a hit.
I would argue that the biggest assumption of all is that balance really exists. I'm not saying that the meta will resolve into a floating 50/50 winrate state for everything across the board. What I am saying is that if you fast forward to three months from now, if no changes were made, I don't believe Elusive decks would still be top of the meta.
In my view, gamers - across all games, not just this one - are far too quick to scream for nerfs instead of exploring counters.
I agree with oldManSanns, but I think riot will increase his mana cost to 9 or 10 to make it harder to play, or remove fearsome to make it so you can block it with tokens. (the card should stay as a finisher, but reduce his power level..)
I am ok with such card existing.. it costs a lot and it should be impactful.
For what it's worth, I think cutting your life total in half is already a pretty huge impact, particularly since you max out at 20 HP and Ledros is an 8/6 that keeps coming back. If you only have token minions, his Fearsome will kill you, and if you have large minions, you'll be stuck trading your board away while your opponent gets to drop Ledros each round.
Now, perhaps my suggestion that he should round down is not the right fix, but there's a whole host of ways he could be changed to make the effect more reasonable. I saw one suggestion on Reddit that changes his last breath effect to shuffle him into the deck rather than returning to hand, and having him lose Fearsome or changing his stats and/or cost because right now he's mostly an uncounterable win condition.
My biggest Win-Streak was quite a while ago ... i only play standard and at the time Secret-Mage emerged i played this deck from 15 to 5 with no loss. But i also have to say that i got realy lucky with most of the match-ups.
Well then to you Sir I say, bravo. I lost 9 games from 15 to 11 in this run (and why I changed decks)
This morning after starting hearthstone most of my cards have been missing in my collection. Yesterday the EU servers crashed maybe there is something link to that. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing?
I restarted hearthstone many times but it still occurs. After clicking "collection" it takes a long time to load.
I also don't see the prevalence of a couple of different keywords in Ionia as a problem. Elusive might be an exception, because they're rather hard to deal with if you don't have elusive units, yourself (and Deny is sort of in a similar position). As for anything else, I'm with OldManSanns - they lack access to the kind of heavy hitters that other regions have.
For instance, I don't think healing and Lifesteal are too problematic (although the fact that Lifesteal scales with attack buffs arguably is), so I don't mind that Ionia gets most of them. They don't have Overwhelm, Fearsome, Frostbite, direct-damage spells, self-sacrifice combos, or anything of the sort. It's not like they're robbing the other regions of their own identities.
My biggest Win-Streak was quite a while ago ... i only play standard and at the time Secret-Mage emerged i played this deck from 15 to 5 with no loss. But i also have to say that i got realy lucky with most of the match-ups.
Well, Neia is one of my favourite characters from the light novel Overlord. Its an inside joke that she’s pretty much the “pope” of a religion she kind of started, so yeah. I put the two words together and it kind of just stuck as my username for a lot of things after that as I liked the ring to it..
I haven't really played a dedicated spider deck apart from the default one, but it seems like a great finisher to me. Once you've assembled a bunch of spiders, you can push through a good amount of damage. Alternatively, it can set you up for some favorable trades, especially if you've managed up level up Elise. Of course, it's fairly worthless if you don't have a couple of spiders on the board.
Well there are surely lots of cards i'm gonna miss but also some i will defenitely not gonna cry about once they are gone :)
Cards i will miss (because i either liked them personaly or liked some decks they were played in) :
Cathedral Gargoyle - i realy liked this one from the beginning because i always tried Dragon Paladin in every expansion!
Tess Greymane - Thief/Burgle Rogue was/is always fun to play so it`s kinda sad to see her go
Boommaster Flark - I realy liked the Flavour of Flark and he was very useful to me in my mech or quest hunter
Glow-Tron - Recently started playing pure and mech paladin so this guy will be deeply missed
Zilliax - One of the most diverse cards - realy liked him but it was also somekind of pain to play against :) - still liked him tough
Halazzi, the Lynx - Realy liked quest hunter , at least this deck made Halazzi half bad :)
Mass Hysteria - Priest was my first golden Hero and i realy like the class - sad to see this one go
Card i surely will not miss:
Witching Hour - mostly of the Ressurect from the Embiggen Druids :) but also bad memories because of Hadronox
Town Crier - every Warrior play either this guy or Eternium Rover on one - simply can't stand them anymore :)
Eternium Rover - See Town Crier up above :) - also turn one into coin Magnetic Mech (SN1P-SN4P) for example could be a pain in the ass.
Time Out! - This is the only card that made me dislike the OTK Paladin - and it was always two turns in a row this was played and after that i lost :)
That's all that i can think of right now - i surely hope we will get decent or better / diverse replacements. But im still hopefull we will get some nice new cards that will deliver a decent and interesting meta - at least i hope so :)
I've had success in expeditions with very different deck strategies: Anivia control decks, Noxus aggro decks, Demacia army decks, Lux/Ezreal/Heimerdinger spell decks - even a Teemo deck with a heavy poison shroom focus worked pretty well (5 wins, I believe). I think a lot of different strategies can thrive in this format, because the handful of dominant meta decks can't easily be replicated in Expeditions.
You're right, though - if your opponent drafts a very strong assortment of aggressive early-game minions, there's not much you can do. As Sanns said, that's the RNG nature of a draft mode. Don't worry yourself too much about it; chances are your next opponent won't have a perfect lineup like that.
Master's Call, it gave a huge boost to midrange hunter and made for a really fun deck with synergies with cards like Dire Frenzy and Zul'jin. While it leaves the class in a good spot with like six good archetypes, it allowed Midrange Hunter to be a viable archetype during a time when Hunter did not have any others.
For me it would be Tess Greymane. She is a staple in the burgle rogue archetype and isn't easely replaced, sadly. However Bazaar Burglary would be a bit of a replacement for her, but this isn't enough to compete against control decks. And the burgle rogue archetype is already bad/mediocre against aggro.
Is frenzied skitterer any good?
Hm... Maybe I'm undervalueing the attack debuff a bit. It's just that spiders aren't exactly known for their high health, anyway, so your opponent shouldn't have too much trouble taking out the weak ones even with one less attack. I guess the debuff could be decent when used defensively, potentially saving yourself from up to 6 nexus damage that turn.
The use of barrier and some spells
It's not logical that Guile is a slow spell that all it does is stun an opponent for 1 mana and skip the turn once you use it, while Vile Feast is a fast spell, it costs 2 mana, drains 1 life and adds a spider in the game and you can continue playing your turn ...
Anyone else think Ionia has a little too much?
Keywords aren't an issue, necessarily. As noted by others, Elusive is something that needs watching, Deny is something that needs watching. None of the other things you list are even things to think about in terms of busted stuff, let alone worry about.
Commander Ledros ought to round down
The counter, at that point, is that your opponent is spending eight mana on a burn effect and an 8/6 fearsome.
If you're still losing the board when they're doing that with their turns, you'd be losing either way. 6+ mana effects are phenomenally powerful in this game, and this one is entirely a burn win condition. As to the thread title - as above, really. If you're at 1 HP, literally any burn will kill you. Who cares if it's an 8-drop, you're dead to a stiff breeze.
Honestly, in a meta where aggression and Elusive are strong, to be complaining about a phenomenally slow, inefficient burn mechanism is endlessly confusing to me.
Anyone else think Ionia has a little too much?
There's definitely too much Ionia on the ladder, but a lot of their mechanics are easily diffused with silence effects in Demacia. So, I don't think their toolkit is massively problematic.
I do, however, think that Shadow Isles has a bit too many "good in all archetypes" cards. Some examples:
Some of these cards certainly shine more in control vs. aggro, but they have applications, which is why Shadow Isles is so much of the metagame right now. The region just seems way too overtuned.
Is frenzied skitterer any good?
It's a pretty strong card in and of itself. Honestly it's strong just as a 3/3 that nerfs opponents' cards for a turn, the +1/+0 is a sidenote which isn't particularly necessary. It really messes with Demacia in particular due to its reliance on value trading.
What is the story behind your username?
Was making a trash account somewhere, needed a name, let my mind wander. For some reason recalled a daycare I passed on the way to my workplace at the time, 'Step By Step Childcare'. Removed some letters, moved things around a little... there y'go.
help with expeditions
Coming off the back of a 7/7 double win (which, admittedly, is not the norm), I can't say I've ever really had issues with Noxian aggro decks in Expedition. I have struggled with Lucian-centric Demacian variants, though, which play similarly - just dependent on keywords rather than stats. I would actually say that early game is something you need only so much of and no more - I find aggro decks don't make it very deep in.
In my experience lately, the vast majority of decks wind up roughly in the 'midrange' camp, so you need a couple firm late-game win conditions or just sheer superior value to carry through.
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
They do certainly have a history of doing that on League... just ask Evelynn or Olaf :P
is detain worth it?
Personally I don't rate the card. It's removal which punishes a lack of removal, and which is, in turn, punished by removal. Running an expensive Deny target which is also ruined by the opponent including cards which they really should be including in their deck is just disrepectful, in my opinion, and asking to be punished. There's also the issue of it shifting your own prioritisation with the Capture target - putting the enemy follower under one of your better allies simply makes them a bigger removal target. Putting them under a weaker ally makes it easier to negate the Capture (as generally a lower value unit will have lower health), and also stop you using them as chaff (or indeed, ever attacking with them, really).
I'm not saying it's unplayable, and if it's what you've got, sure. But in a hypothetical world where you have every card, it's never making it into a deck for me.
How do you counter or at least live against the Elusive Decks?
I would argue that the biggest assumption of all is that balance really exists. I'm not saying that the meta will resolve into a floating 50/50 winrate state for everything across the board. What I am saying is that if you fast forward to three months from now, if no changes were made, I don't believe Elusive decks would still be top of the meta.
In my view, gamers - across all games, not just this one - are far too quick to scream for nerfs instead of exploring counters.
Commander Ledros ought to round down
For what it's worth, I think cutting your life total in half is already a pretty huge impact, particularly since you max out at 20 HP and Ledros is an 8/6 that keeps coming back. If you only have token minions, his Fearsome will kill you, and if you have large minions, you'll be stuck trading your board away while your opponent gets to drop Ledros each round.
Now, perhaps my suggestion that he should round down is not the right fix, but there's a whole host of ways he could be changed to make the effect more reasonable. I saw one suggestion on Reddit that changes his last breath effect to shuffle him into the deck rather than returning to hand, and having him lose Fearsome or changing his stats and/or cost because right now he's mostly an uncounterable win condition.
Which card are you going to miss the most from the upcoming rotating sets and how would you replace it?
For me, whizbang and toki, i hope they get rotated into classic because in wild they'll be useless
What's your most satisfying winstreak?
Well then to you Sir I say, bravo. I lost 9 games from 15 to 11 in this run (and why I changed decks)
15 - 5 with no loss. That's pretty impressive :))
What's your most satisfying winstreak?
Wow that sounds epic :) (golden epic in fact)
Classic cards missing
Hello everyone,
This morning after starting hearthstone most of my cards have been missing in my collection. Yesterday the EU servers crashed maybe there is something link to that. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing?
I restarted hearthstone many times but it still occurs. After clicking "collection" it takes a long time to load.
Anyone else think Ionia has a little too much?
I also don't see the prevalence of a couple of different keywords in Ionia as a problem. Elusive might be an exception, because they're rather hard to deal with if you don't have elusive units, yourself (and Deny is sort of in a similar position). As for anything else, I'm with OldManSanns - they lack access to the kind of heavy hitters that other regions have.
For instance, I don't think healing and Lifesteal are too problematic (although the fact that Lifesteal scales with attack buffs arguably is), so I don't mind that Ionia gets most of them. They don't have Overwhelm, Fearsome, Frostbite, direct-damage spells, self-sacrifice combos, or anything of the sort. It's not like they're robbing the other regions of their own identities.
What's your most satisfying winstreak?
My biggest Win-Streak was quite a while ago ... i only play standard and at the time Secret-Mage emerged i played this deck from 15 to 5 with no loss. But i also have to say that i got realy lucky with most of the match-ups.
What is the story behind your username?
Well, Neia is one of my favourite characters from the light novel Overlord. Its an inside joke that she’s pretty much the “pope” of a religion she kind of started, so yeah. I put the two words together and it kind of just stuck as my username for a lot of things after that as I liked the ring to it..
Is frenzied skitterer any good?
I haven't really played a dedicated spider deck apart from the default one, but it seems like a great finisher to me. Once you've assembled a bunch of spiders, you can push through a good amount of damage. Alternatively, it can set you up for some favorable trades, especially if you've managed up level up Elise. Of course, it's fairly worthless if you don't have a couple of spiders on the board.
Which card are you going to miss the most from the upcoming rotating sets and how would you replace it?
Well there are surely lots of cards i'm gonna miss but also some i will defenitely not gonna cry about once they are gone :)
Cards i will miss (because i either liked them personaly or liked some decks they were played in) :
Cathedral Gargoyle - i realy liked this one from the beginning because i always tried Dragon Paladin in every expansion!
Tess Greymane - Thief/Burgle Rogue was/is always fun to play so it`s kinda sad to see her go
Boommaster Flark - I realy liked the Flavour of Flark and he was very useful to me in my mech or quest hunter
Glow-Tron - Recently started playing pure and mech paladin so this guy will be deeply missed
Zilliax - One of the most diverse cards - realy liked him but it was also somekind of pain to play against :) - still liked him tough
Halazzi, the Lynx - Realy liked quest hunter , at least this deck made Halazzi half bad :)
Mass Hysteria - Priest was my first golden Hero and i realy like the class - sad to see this one go
Card i surely will not miss:
Witching Hour - mostly of the Ressurect from the Embiggen Druids :) but also bad memories because of Hadronox
Town Crier - every Warrior play either this guy or Eternium Rover on one - simply can't stand them anymore :)
Eternium Rover - See Town Crier up above :) - also turn one into coin Magnetic Mech (SN1P-SN4P) for example could be a pain in the ass.
Time Out! - This is the only card that made me dislike the OTK Paladin - and it was always two turns in a row this was played and after that i lost :)
That's all that i can think of right now - i surely hope we will get decent or better / diverse replacements. But im still hopefull we will get some nice new cards that will deliver a decent and interesting meta - at least i hope so :)
help with expeditions
I've had success in expeditions with very different deck strategies: Anivia control decks, Noxus aggro decks, Demacia army decks, Lux/Ezreal/Heimerdinger spell decks - even a Teemo deck with a heavy poison shroom focus worked pretty well (5 wins, I believe). I think a lot of different strategies can thrive in this format, because the handful of dominant meta decks can't easily be replicated in Expeditions.
You're right, though - if your opponent drafts a very strong assortment of aggressive early-game minions, there's not much you can do. As Sanns said, that's the RNG nature of a draft mode. Don't worry yourself too much about it; chances are your next opponent won't have a perfect lineup like that.
Ever-quest Dragon Hunter
Oh wow never think of it that way. Love the deck, will definitely try this on ladder.
Which card are you going to miss the most from the upcoming rotating sets and how would you replace it?
Master's Call, it gave a huge boost to midrange hunter and made for a really fun deck with synergies with cards like Dire Frenzy and Zul'jin. While it leaves the class in a good spot with like six good archetypes, it allowed Midrange Hunter to be a viable archetype during a time when Hunter did not have any others.
Which card are you going to miss the most from the upcoming rotating sets and how would you replace it?
For me it would be Tess Greymane. She is a staple in the burgle rogue archetype and isn't easely replaced, sadly. However Bazaar Burglary would be a bit of a replacement for her, but this isn't enough to compete against control decks. And the burgle rogue archetype is already bad/mediocre against aggro.