After 5 years HS has moved very little from its initial state: we got a fun mode (Brawl), just two format but both with just a difference in the avaible sets (Wild and Standard), one draft mode that is not even considered competitive (Arena). The economic system of the game has remained the same with just a little and meaningless rework of some quests, no cosmetics aside from cardbacks (that cannot even bee properly shown) and some alternate Heroes, a gameplay that too many times has felt boring or simply unfun (polarized matches, terrible unbalanced Classes for too long and the like).
While it remains the first, the most polished, well-looking and easy/fun to play of all OCG (expecially on mobile) the game as began to feel the competition of many other OCG that had/are/will coming out and that are making profit of the way already paved by HS: they already know how to appeal F2P players, what are the flaws of HS and how to avoid them, what kind of competitive environment players wanna see for tournaments and so on.
HS need to refresh its format under almost every aspect before it becomes too old to keep the pace of other competitors and while something it seems to be actualy moving, it's still too slow. The economy of the game is just the most important aspect (or at last the one that is more relevant to Blizzard) but it's not the only thing they should start to innovate and not even the one on which players are more engaged.
I'm going to propose something potentially controversial here. As a background:
I don't think it's deniable that entering Hearthstone as a new player is extremely difficult. Quite aside from the knowledge or skill barriers, the quantity of cards required to be *really* competitive is absurd. Even if we take the optimal point of entry, i.e. right at the moment of a year transition, a player needs:
- A significant number of Classic cards, as many are still in heavy use as 'core' class cards
- Cards from FOUR different expansions, at various rarities
Due to this, to even create a single high tier deck, a new player would need to spend a significant amount of money on packs to accrue the cards they need from the current expansion AND to accrue sufficient dust to craft cards from previous expansions that are still in Standard. And that's assuming they dust all the cards they don't need for that specific deck.
And that's just making a single deck. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd go crazy (or more likely, get bored and quit) if I only ever played the one deck. That isn't true for everyone - a friend of mine pretty much ignores all classes aside from Warrior - but I'd wager most people would be closer to my end than his. I myself purchase a minimum of 80 packs at the start of any given expansion - and typically I'll pre-order AND buy 40-80 packs. I'm not the typical case, as I play HS a lot and have no problem spending money on something that gives me entertainment - but I know plenty of people aren't like me.
Particularly, however, this is MUCH less likely to be true for a new player, who doesn't really know how much entertainment they're likely to get out of Hearthstone. Are you going to buy 100+ packs for a game you might not even be playing in a few weeks' time? Honestly, I probably would, but I doubt many others would.
So, here's my proposal: All players should be able to make a single payment, set, say, at the price of 40 packs (or maybe even less). In return, the purchasing player gets every single card in the Classic set. The purchased cards would be non-golden, and non-dustable.
My rationale - it's a single payment and you're guaranteed to have the entire set. The player is happier because they can entirely ignore Classic now and just spot-snipe the cards they want for any given deck (and often they'll own many of those cards already, thanks to the purchase). Blizzard is happy because players who would otherwise not bother playing the game, would spend at least a minimum amount on the game. While not limited to new players, those are pretty much the only people who'd buy the product since there's no value in buying it if you already own most of the cards. Those are the people Blizzard needs to be targeting, and those are the people who are far more likely to quit in frustration than sink the ludicrous amount of money into the game necessary to really play it on all levels.
Incidentally, noting the Tavern Brawl was mentioned in the article. If the idea of this was to assist new players, that idea is laughably naïve. A new player isn't going to say 'well, I can't really play any queue without being completely outclassed, so I'll just play weekly to get free packs'. You don't hook a new customer by drip-feeding them. The Brawl probably does fine in assisting casual players, but no more than that - it will do *nothing* to hook new customers.
But just so I make sure I understand, does the combo require killing off an Oblivitron (so you can trigger it via Nine Lives) and then playing it again so you can activate it with Play Dead? But then it looks like a TTK as you need Oblivitron to stick for a turn so you can drop Necromechanic (4) + Nine Lives (3) + Play Dead (1) + Hero Power the next turn. Am I reading things correctly?
If you can drop the Galvanizers on your Mechwarpers and at least 1 Clockwork Automaton, the warpers would be 0-cost and you could get the Automaton down to 1-cost (or zero if you get another Galvanizer/Warper via Stitched Tracker or Zola). Then if you're able to Jepetto the Faceless Manipulators or the remaining Automaton you could play the remaining one of those three at its normal cost and still have enough mana left over to hero power. Though in retrospect this may be more difficult than the Oblivitron strategy ;D
Well, the game certainly is not rigged ... simply just a bad day or loosing streak - it happens - usualy if i lose 3 times in a row i take a break. Pick a strong deck you like and stick with it because this way it is way easier to learn the meta and know what to play when and think about the plays the opponent could make the next turn etc.
I personaly can't speak for the wild meta because i only play standard but like i said it usualy helps if you want to climb up - stick with one deck. If you play consistantly and take a break now and then rank 5 should be no problem.
Maybe take a look at the top wild decks on this site or check HS Replay to find the right deck for you/your playstyle :)
They've been nerfing Basic and Classic cards that show up in decks too often, to make sure new expansions actually lead to a different meta each time. Fewer powerful cards makes it less attractive to get Classic packs.
I think that in the long run, they'll either have to merge Classic into Basic, as you suggest, or implement a rotating Classic set, as Brian Kibler has been saying for a while.
Most tavern brawls reward Classic packs and there is also the spectate daily quest. So it's probably around 55 free Classic packs per year. More if you get lucky with Twitch drops for playoffs/finals.
I've been playing almost non-stop since open beta and I don't have a full Classic collection either.
In 2014/2015 there were large gaps in expansion releases (you had adventures) where indeed you would be purchasing several classic packs with gold. Not sure if you were around during that time. Also you get around 30x Classic a year now.
Conservatively, I've opened well over 300-400 classic packs. That should be enough for a full classic collection.
I'm happy with the entertainment I get for the money I invest in Hearthstone, I don't spend really a lot, just around 20 € per expansion, and I grind the dailies so I can but more packs with gold, but I agree it can be very disappointing for somebody starting in the game: getting enough cards to create at least one good deck in the first few months is really hard, and most players probably lose interest if they don't achieve that. So trying to fix this would be a welcome improvement.
That would be so great! It‘s a refreshing meta for basicly no developpment cost. New cards are often build arounds and will still be necessairy to play the game in all it’s diversity. The incentive to spend money remains but the cost for individual decks can easily be cut in half.
Old players get nostalgia and diversity.
New players don’t need 6 legendarys for a single deck.
The worst part about the current classic set is, that half the legendarys are completly useless but disenchanting them only decreases the chance to open actually usefull cards.
"I've been playing since may 2014 and still don't have a full classic set if that tells you anything"
I'm not sure how much it tells us, TBH, because you stop buying classic packs pretty quickly. If you don't buy classic packs, you'll miss out on the garbage epics, etc. that you'd never waste dust crafting. I'm pretty sure I don't have every epic, again, b/c a lot of them aren't worth the dust.
Yea that hearthstone card in the dungeon run is nice, until you have one of the bosses play an Unseen Saboteur right before the plague lord, and add the fact that the game was in the bag too, the boss was gonna die next turn. That was not fun for me...
The dusting system have generally been underwhelming, imo, especially regarding rares and commons, which also happens to be the cards you get in practically any pack. I think it would go a long way just to have the 1/4th value set for those rarities aswell.
So 10 dust per common and 25 per rare.
Saviors of Uldum has been one of the best designed expansions ever, in my humble opinion, and it seems like they're getting better with their general designs.
I'm glad that Blizzard is starting to realize that prices need to be changed. None of my friends play any longer, and my enjoyment has start dwindling. With next rotation, if I continue playing, it might be mitigated to wild (No matter how much I love the game, I can no longer shell out this type of money on a game).
Indeed, HS is increasingly expensive, and I think it starts feeling forbidding for new players in Standard.
I am not sure what the best solution is, but probably the Classic set needs a rework, and I would be more radical than simply halving the cost.
Most of the Classic set is consistently useless in every expansion, and could easily be HoFed for good, just to clean things up.
With the exception of few cards, that should be reworked entirely, in order to give a solid option that should be always available, be it Neutral or Class (my typical example is Holy Nova, which is horribly useless, and has prompted the devs to continuously add new broken AoE to Priest through the years: just make Holy Nova a decent card!).
So, what would survive from such a process, should simply be made part of the Basic set, and call it a day. To be unlocked with Class levels (exactly as you unlock golden Basic now), so that new players have a way to be fairly competitive fast enough, through sheer farming.
At that point Standard sets can stay as expensive as they are now, generating the same revenues, while not being forbidding to newbies.
Halving the crafting cost of Wild-only cards should also be a thing, to encourage players to at least try the mode. And/or make HoF cards free for everyone.
I purchased witchwood (last preorder I did) specifically because it was about the best value we've ever seen in HS, I wouldn't mind seeing a special dust event once a year like Gwent when you could craft a golden for half the value or something. Small things like that would go far IMO - the dusting system is abysmal it genuinely needs to be reworked.
Edited to add: I've been playing since may 2014 and still don't have a full classic set if that tells you anything
And I thought the Inner Fire + Divine Spirit interaction was awful. This should be illegal. 11/10
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
After 5 years HS has moved very little from its initial state: we got a fun mode (Brawl), just two format but both with just a difference in the avaible sets (Wild and Standard), one draft mode that is not even considered competitive (Arena). The economic system of the game has remained the same with just a little and meaningless rework of some quests, no cosmetics aside from cardbacks (that cannot even bee properly shown) and some alternate Heroes, a gameplay that too many times has felt boring or simply unfun (polarized matches, terrible unbalanced Classes for too long and the like).
While it remains the first, the most polished, well-looking and easy/fun to play of all OCG (expecially on mobile) the game as began to feel the competition of many other OCG that had/are/will coming out and that are making profit of the way already paved by HS: they already know how to appeal F2P players, what are the flaws of HS and how to avoid them, what kind of competitive environment players wanna see for tournaments and so on.
HS need to refresh its format under almost every aspect before it becomes too old to keep the pace of other competitors and while something it seems to be actualy moving, it's still too slow. The economy of the game is just the most important aspect (or at last the one that is more relevant to Blizzard) but it's not the only thing they should start to innovate and not even the one on which players are more engaged.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
I'm going to propose something potentially controversial here. As a background:
I don't think it's deniable that entering Hearthstone as a new player is extremely difficult. Quite aside from the knowledge or skill barriers, the quantity of cards required to be *really* competitive is absurd. Even if we take the optimal point of entry, i.e. right at the moment of a year transition, a player needs:
- A significant number of Classic cards, as many are still in heavy use as 'core' class cards
- Cards from FOUR different expansions, at various rarities
Due to this, to even create a single high tier deck, a new player would need to spend a significant amount of money on packs to accrue the cards they need from the current expansion AND to accrue sufficient dust to craft cards from previous expansions that are still in Standard. And that's assuming they dust all the cards they don't need for that specific deck.
And that's just making a single deck. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd go crazy (or more likely, get bored and quit) if I only ever played the one deck. That isn't true for everyone - a friend of mine pretty much ignores all classes aside from Warrior - but I'd wager most people would be closer to my end than his. I myself purchase a minimum of 80 packs at the start of any given expansion - and typically I'll pre-order AND buy 40-80 packs. I'm not the typical case, as I play HS a lot and have no problem spending money on something that gives me entertainment - but I know plenty of people aren't like me.
Particularly, however, this is MUCH less likely to be true for a new player, who doesn't really know how much entertainment they're likely to get out of Hearthstone. Are you going to buy 100+ packs for a game you might not even be playing in a few weeks' time? Honestly, I probably would, but I doubt many others would.
So, here's my proposal: All players should be able to make a single payment, set, say, at the price of 40 packs (or maybe even less). In return, the purchasing player gets every single card in the Classic set. The purchased cards would be non-golden, and non-dustable.
My rationale - it's a single payment and you're guaranteed to have the entire set. The player is happier because they can entirely ignore Classic now and just spot-snipe the cards they want for any given deck (and often they'll own many of those cards already, thanks to the purchase). Blizzard is happy because players who would otherwise not bother playing the game, would spend at least a minimum amount on the game. While not limited to new players, those are pretty much the only people who'd buy the product since there's no value in buying it if you already own most of the cards. Those are the people Blizzard needs to be targeting, and those are the people who are far more likely to quit in frustration than sink the ludicrous amount of money into the game necessary to really play it on all levels.
Incidentally, noting the Tavern Brawl was mentioned in the article. If the idea of this was to assist new players, that idea is laughably naïve. A new player isn't going to say 'well, I can't really play any queue without being completely outclassed, so I'll just play weekly to get free packs'. You don't hook a new customer by drip-feeding them. The Brawl probably does fine in assisting casual players, but no more than that - it will do *nothing* to hook new customers.
Meme OTK idea needs suggestions
Always enjoy seeing a Hunter OTK idea :)
But just so I make sure I understand, does the combo require killing off an Oblivitron (so you can trigger it via Nine Lives) and then playing it again so you can activate it with Play Dead? But then it looks like a TTK as you need Oblivitron to stick for a turn so you can drop Necromechanic (4) + Nine Lives (3) + Play Dead (1) + Hero Power the next turn. Am I reading things correctly?
My first instinct is to try building a Jepetto deck. For example, what if we ran 2x Galvanizer, 2x Mechwarper, 2x Stitched Tracker, and 2x Faceless Manipulator in addition to Jepetto, Ursatron, and maybe Thaurissan or Zola the Gorgon?
If you can drop the Galvanizers on your Mechwarpers and at least 1 Clockwork Automaton, the warpers would be 0-cost and you could get the Automaton down to 1-cost (or zero if you get another Galvanizer/Warper via Stitched Tracker or Zola). Then if you're able to Jepetto the Faceless Manipulators or the remaining Automaton you could play the remaining one of those three at its normal cost and still have enough mana left over to hero power. Though in retrospect this may be more difficult than the Oblivitron strategy ;D
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
Leeroy Jenkins
Bad / Unplayable Legendary
Deck lists according to rank
Well, the game certainly is not rigged ... simply just a bad day or loosing streak - it happens - usualy if i lose 3 times in a row i take a break. Pick a strong deck you like and stick with it because this way it is way easier to learn the meta and know what to play when and think about the plays the opponent could make the next turn etc.
I personaly can't speak for the wild meta because i only play standard but like i said it usualy helps if you want to climb up - stick with one deck. If you play consistantly and take a break now and then rank 5 should be no problem.
Maybe take a look at the top wild decks on this site or check HS Replay to find the right deck for you/your playstyle :)
Good Luck and Have fun!
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
They've been nerfing Basic and Classic cards that show up in decks too often, to make sure new expansions actually lead to a different meta each time. Fewer powerful cards makes it less attractive to get Classic packs.
I think that in the long run, they'll either have to merge Classic into Basic, as you suggest, or implement a rotating Classic set, as Brian Kibler has been saying for a while.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
Most tavern brawls reward Classic packs and there is also the spectate daily quest. So it's probably around 55 free Classic packs per year. More if you get lucky with Twitch drops for playoffs/finals.
I've been playing almost non-stop since open beta and I don't have a full Classic collection either.
Dave Kosak on Tombs of Terror Randomness, Bartender Bob, Zephrys’s Lamp Easter Egg
The two that I keep hearing about seem to be pogohoppers and quest rewards/other powerful tokens. Haven’t seen any other ones mentioned though
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
In 2014/2015 there were large gaps in expansion releases (you had adventures) where indeed you would be purchasing several classic packs with gold. Not sure if you were around during that time. Also you get around 30x Classic a year now.
Conservatively, I've opened well over 300-400 classic packs. That should be enough for a full classic collection.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
For comparison here's the survey from last February (questions answered by redditors)
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdQSNkm32QfDv-q9MNnXSmsYQvmp9LFystLvMbKwTV72TqvwA/viewanalytics
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
I'm happy with the entertainment I get for the money I invest in Hearthstone, I don't spend really a lot, just around 20 € per expansion, and I grind the dailies so I can but more packs with gold, but I agree it can be very disappointing for somebody starting in the game: getting enough cards to create at least one good deck in the first few months is really hard, and most players probably lose interest if they don't achieve that. So trying to fix this would be a welcome improvement.
I also got an invitation to the survey, BTW.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
That would be so great! It‘s a refreshing meta for basicly no developpment cost. New cards are often build arounds and will still be necessairy to play the game in all it’s diversity. The incentive to spend money remains but the cost for individual decks can easily be cut in half.
Old players get nostalgia and diversity.
New players don’t need 6 legendarys for a single deck.
The worst part about the current classic set is, that half the legendarys are completly useless but disenchanting them only decreases the chance to open actually usefull cards.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
I agree that the refunded dust can be higher.
BUT I also have to say that the dusting is imho the best way to get cards that you need / want, compared to ANY other digital TCG.
Elise's Zoology Report
I've tried a beast package druid and can never seem to get it to work. Haven't tried it as a singleton deck tho, so good luck!
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
"I've been playing since may 2014 and still don't have a full classic set if that tells you anything"
I'm not sure how much it tells us, TBH, because you stop buying classic packs pretty quickly. If you don't buy classic packs, you'll miss out on the garbage epics, etc. that you'd never waste dust crafting. I'm pretty sure I don't have every epic, again, b/c a lot of them aren't worth the dust.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
We keep getting closer and closer to a free rotating core set. I wish we'd just hurry up and get there.
Dave Kosak on Tombs of Terror Randomness, Bartender Bob, Zephrys’s Lamp Easter Egg
Yea that hearthstone card in the dungeon run is nice, until you have one of the bosses play an Unseen Saboteur right before the plague lord, and add the fact that the game was in the bag too, the boss was gonna die next turn. That was not fun for me...
Dave Kosak on Tombs of Terror Randomness, Bartender Bob, Zephrys’s Lamp Easter Egg
hmm, so far I had the VIP membership once and managed to get the Bob's deck too
at first I thought the deck wasn't that great but I managed to easily win the run
wonder how many different decks there are that Bob can give, weird that we haven't seen anything datamined for this
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
The dusting system have generally been underwhelming, imo, especially regarding rares and commons, which also happens to be the cards you get in practically any pack. I think it would go a long way just to have the 1/4th value set for those rarities aswell.
So 10 dust per common and 25 per rare.
Saviors of Uldum has been one of the best designed expansions ever, in my humble opinion, and it seems like they're getting better with their general designs.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
I'm glad that Blizzard is starting to realize that prices need to be changed. None of my friends play any longer, and my enjoyment has start dwindling. With next rotation, if I continue playing, it might be mitigated to wild (No matter how much I love the game, I can no longer shell out this type of money on a game).
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
Indeed, HS is increasingly expensive, and I think it starts feeling forbidding for new players in Standard.
I am not sure what the best solution is, but probably the Classic set needs a rework, and I would be more radical than simply halving the cost.
Most of the Classic set is consistently useless in every expansion, and could easily be HoFed for good, just to clean things up.
With the exception of few cards, that should be reworked entirely, in order to give a solid option that should be always available, be it Neutral or Class (my typical example is Holy Nova, which is horribly useless, and has prompted the devs to continuously add new broken AoE to Priest through the years: just make Holy Nova a decent card!).
So, what would survive from such a process, should simply be made part of the Basic set, and call it a day. To be unlocked with Class levels (exactly as you unlock golden Basic now), so that new players have a way to be fairly competitive fast enough, through sheer farming.
At that point Standard sets can stay as expensive as they are now, generating the same revenues, while not being forbidding to newbies.
Halving the crafting cost of Wild-only cards should also be a thing, to encourage players to at least try the mode. And/or make HoF cards free for everyone.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
It would be nice to see prices reduced. Ever since PvE needs gold to unlock I'm having trouble keeping up with new expansion releases.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
This is really cool to see. Heard about these surveys the last few years and was always curious to see one.
Thanks for posting.
Could Hearthstone be Looking to Reduce the Cost of the Classic Set?
I purchased witchwood (last preorder I did) specifically because it was about the best value we've ever seen in HS, I wouldn't mind seeing a special dust event once a year like Gwent when you could craft a golden for half the value or something. Small things like that would go far IMO - the dusting system is abysmal it genuinely needs to be reworked.
Edited to add: I've been playing since may 2014 and still don't have a full classic set if that tells you anything