Just faced a Linecracker jade druid in casual. When the opponent pulled off the combo and gained 2k+ armour, they started emoting as if they have already won.
I was playing my Thief Priest deck and I said to myself "Bro. If you want a slow game, I will give you a slow game". At the end neither of us could kill each other, because we reached the turn limit. But I would like to imagine how salty my opponent was seeing that their armour didn't do anything than prolong the game.
That’s probably entirely dependent on whether you plan to run a highlander deck. Zephrys is probably more fun; Siamat is more flexible and can fit into a wider range of decks.
If you insist on Zephrys, one thing I’d recommend is not dropping him early. I see a lot of people playing him on turn 3, when there isn’t much of a board state for the AI to analyze, and you’re unlikely to get anything that will really swing the game. Moreover, playing him so soon signals to your opponent early that you’re running a highlander deck; if you have a perfect counter spell somewhere in your deck, once you burn it, your opponent knows you only have one copy.
I feel like the last paragraph was me arguing myself into advocating for Siamat.
I suspect that Siamat is not as versatile as Zilliax (this is the comparison I have often read). Simply because Siamat comes 2 turns later, when it might be too late to stabilize.
So Siamat is cool, but nothing like Zephrys the Great. If anything because Siamat acts as a solid deck filler, while Zephrys is a deck enabler.
Surely if you are short on dust you should just wait.
Zephrys is absolute amazing and a win condition per se in highlander decks. imo is the best card in the new set, but is also restricted to that deck format. Siamat flexibility is also amazing and a great card in mid/control decks. And more important both are neutral cards, so you can use them in more types of decks. If you have the dust, craft both, but if you are restricted on dust, just wait to the meta sttabilize.
That’s probably entirely dependent on whether you plan to run a highlander deck. Zephrys is probably more fun; Siamat is more flexible and can fit into a wider range of decks.
If you insist on Zephrys, one thing I’d recommend is not dropping him early. I see a lot of people playing him on turn 3, when there isn’t much of a board state for the AI to analyze, and you’re unlikely to get anything that will really swing the game. Moreover, playing him so soon signals to your opponent early that you’re running a highlander deck; if you have a perfect counter spell somewhere in your deck, once you burn it, your opponent knows you only have one copy.
I feel like the last paragraph was me arguing myself into advocating for Siamat.
I'm still trying to get the hang of it, but my last match against an aggressive Quest Druid was quite satisfying and surprising - I didn't think I could survive that long without triggering Ice Block. Using Zola to duplicate Coldlight Oracle is great. It's also rather neat that the combo includes a card that you can also use to find the rest of the combo ie. Research Project. Lastly, I love that an opponent's Ice Block cannot save them from this combo :)
Thanks for the great feedback, it sounds like you're loving Mill Mage as much as me! Aggro is definitely a struggle but if you get a decent draw it is doable. Research Project is such a great spell. Really hoping we get another card to support this archetype next expansion.
You need to drop something and put another N'Zoth's First Mate. I'm stunned that you want to complete the quest super early, but then only include one copy of your best way to get a weapon up and running on turn 1.
You are forgetting that you are playing the very Hack the System on turn 1.
We could argue that the quest could be ditched in mulligan, but then why even including it? Classic PW would be just better. We could also argue about going 2nd, but it's not wise to deckbuild that way.
The deck is optimized around the quest, so you start swinging at turn-2, when N'Zoth's First Mate is already a sub-optimal play for removing something, hence why i included it just as a 1x. Woodcutter's Axe is what you want to have early on.
You need to drop something and put another N'Zoth's First Mate. I'm stunned that you want to complete the quest super early, but then only include one copy of your best way to get a weapon up and running on turn 1.
When they first released this card, I said it was probably the best 1-drop they ever printed. And now in the start of SoU, he's in almost literally every single warrior deck, whether it is hardcore control, or smorcing aggro - all of them use this guy.
I'll indeed try out that Priest deck. Seems lots of fun. How about finding a spot for Barista Lynchen? With all those battecries it will give tons of value (even more than usual considering it's an highlander deck).
Thanks for the list and the excellent work, as always.
Well, i agree that rarity-creep feels bad over time, since a legendary dust effort is overcome by a silly common eventually, but tbh, it mainly happens with meme or just obviously bad cards, ie those you brought as example.
So overall it's just a minor problem.
The problem of deck-defining legendaries is a distinct one, and yes, as i already wrote quite a few times, it is a serious issue in Standard.
Not so much in Wild, where despite some oppressive decks, viability is much wider, and dust investments never fade into oblivion.
Another perspective of quest druid is that 90% of the players complete the quest ASAP without actually trying to remove stuff if it delays their quest, people are not used to play quest druid, the deck might be just MEH but at the same time it's build + gameplay not just build for that deck specifically since it's the only quest that requires a lot of choices during it's completion.. do I waste coin to complete the quest? is this board going to snowball?
Completing the quest 2-3 turns later but not dying to aggro might be a better approach to it, and most players I played against just complete the quest and immediately die..
I predict quest druid will be tier 3 but good players will have their 55% win rate with the right build so the deck might have higher win rate in legend after a few weeks.
I'd like to think that the lower winrate of quest shaman and quest druid is due to the large amount of experimentation, and that as time goes on, the better builds will win out and they will both end up with higher winrates. I'm not so hopeful though, especially on quest druid. Quest shaman shows more promise.
For quest druid: At all ranks, it is 49.5% over the entire expansion. Last 3 days it is at 48.7% and last 1 day it is at 47.5%. So it seems that the quest druid is just worsening over time. At upper ranks it is doing even worse. From rank 5-legend, it is 47.1% over the whole expansion, 46.6% over past 3 days and 45.7% over the past day. It's looking bleak for quest druid.
For quest shaman: At all ranks, it is 49% over the entire expansion. Past 3 days, it is also 49%. Past 1 day, it is up to 49.5%. It's been improving slightly, so there might be some promise here. At upper ranks, it is 48.2% over the whole expansion. Past 3 days, it is at 48.3%. Past 1 day it is at 48.6%. So we've seen some improvement, though it's still fairly negative.
Quest shaman I'd say is also the deck that has the most possibilities for different builds. You can go all the way from a fast aggro version meant to burn down the opponent immediately, all the way up to a fatigue style control deck. So there's a lot more possibilities and variance in the builds, as well as a lot more room to find the perfect formula that will have the best chances of winning in the current meta.
Quest druid on the other hand is far more straight forward in its build. The number of different choose one cards are rather limited, so the different ways you can actually build the deck are limited as well. Druid doesn't have the tools to be much of a control deck without single target removals or any serious board clears, nor can the quest be aggro with how it forces you to skip using your mana. It will always be either a midrange value deck or some sort of crazy combo deck with Elise.
So based on the info we have available, I'd assume that when everything is finished, quest shaman will end up as a pretty solid T2 deck list while quest druid will be little more than a tier 3 deck used in certain competitive circumstances where you can ban bad matchups. Even then though, there may be better options.
These statistics are really interesting. I'm guessing they're from hsreplay. Are they premium only?
Some great insights overall. I guess I thought quest shaman would be more straightforward than it is. Throwing in all the lackey synergies + good lategame value cards such as Swampqueen Hagatha and Shudderwock mixed with some boardclear isn't enough to have the deck reach 50% just yet apparently.
Will be interesting to see how the quests further develop, and what vS' thoughts are coming thursday.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Done.
The Pepper Thread - Share Some Good Vibes!
Just faced a Linecracker jade druid in casual. When the opponent pulled off the combo and gained 2k+ armour, they started emoting as if they have already won.
I was playing my Thief Priest deck and I said to myself "Bro. If you want a slow game, I will give you a slow game". At the end neither of us could kill each other, because we reached the turn limit. But I would like to imagine how salty my opponent was seeing that their armour didn't do anything than prolong the game.
Dust a Golden Hunter Quest for ...
This. But I advocate for Zephrys the Great instead.
I suspect that Siamat is not as versatile as Zilliax (this is the comparison I have often read). Simply because Siamat comes 2 turns later, when it might be too late to stabilize.
So Siamat is cool, but nothing like Zephrys the Great. If anything because Siamat acts as a solid deck filler, while Zephrys is a deck enabler.
Surely if you are short on dust you should just wait.
Dust a Golden Hunter Quest for ...
Zephrys is absolute amazing and a win condition per se in highlander decks. imo is the best card in the new set, but is also restricted to that deck format. Siamat flexibility is also amazing and a great card in mid/control decks. And more important both are neutral cards, so you can use them in more types of decks. If you have the dust, craft both, but if you are restricted on dust, just wait to the meta sttabilize.
Dust a Golden Hunter Quest for ...
That’s probably entirely dependent on whether you plan to run a highlander deck. Zephrys is probably more fun; Siamat is more flexible and can fit into a wider range of decks.
If you insist on Zephrys, one thing I’d recommend is not dropping him early. I see a lot of people playing him on turn 3, when there isn’t much of a board state for the AI to analyze, and you’re unlikely to get anything that will really swing the game. Moreover, playing him so soon signals to your opponent early that you’re running a highlander deck; if you have a perfect counter spell somewhere in your deck, once you burn it, your opponent knows you only have one copy.
I feel like the last paragraph was me arguing myself into advocating for Siamat.
Dust a Golden Hunter Quest for ...
Cool.
Deck with minimum SoU investment
I opened some pack and already have some meta-decks options but I still play whizbang.
4 runs, all 5+ wins
Highlander Mill Mage (Saviors of Uldum edition)
Thanks for the great feedback, it sounds like you're loving Mill Mage as much as me! Aggro is definitely a struggle but if you get a decent draw it is doable. Research Project is such a great spell. Really hoping we get another card to support this archetype next expansion.
You are forgetting that you are playing the very Hack the System on turn 1.
We could argue that the quest could be ditched in mulligan, but then why even including it? Classic PW would be just better. We could also argue about going 2nd, but it's not wise to deckbuild that way.
The deck is optimized around the quest, so you start swinging at turn-2, when N'Zoth's First Mate is already a sub-optimal play for removing something, hence why i included it just as a 1x. Woodcutter's Axe is what you want to have early on.
The Pepper Thread - Share Some Good Vibes!
The pleasure of out-Tempoing a Kingsbane Rogue with my Highlander Rogue. Without even calling for the help of Zephrys the Great btw.
I love the smell of viability in my homebrews in the morning.
You need to drop something and put another N'Zoth's First Mate. I'm stunned that you want to complete the quest super early, but then only include one copy of your best way to get a weapon up and running on turn 1.
[GA] At a Bazaar with Tess Greymane
Tess and Ed's Bazaar Journey
Town Crier
When they first released this card, I said it was probably the best 1-drop they ever printed. And now in the start of SoU, he's in almost literally every single warrior deck, whether it is hardcore control, or smorcing aggro - all of them use this guy.
A Weekend of Wild Decks
I'll indeed try out that Priest deck. Seems lots of fun. How about finding a spot for Barista Lynchen? With all those battecries it will give tons of value (even more than usual considering it's an highlander deck).
Thanks for the list and the excellent work, as always.
On rarity creep
Well, i agree that rarity-creep feels bad over time, since a legendary dust effort is overcome by a silly common eventually, but tbh, it mainly happens with meme or just obviously bad cards, ie those you brought as example.
So overall it's just a minor problem.
The problem of deck-defining legendaries is a distinct one, and yes, as i already wrote quite a few times, it is a serious issue in Standard.
Not so much in Wild, where despite some oppressive decks, viability is much wider, and dust investments never fade into oblivion.
2500 Armor Druid
broken deck ;(
Highlander Face Hunter is Rediculous
This is what i meant when i was theorycrafting the Highlander Tempo concept.
Hopefully more Neutral support is provided in that direction.
I so wish Rogue could use Kazakus...
Highlander Face Hunter is Rediculous
Uh, yeah. That's the suggestion I was agreeing with in the first place?
Kripp's very useful guide about Zephrys the Great
@ Sherman
Thanks for posting the clip, tt was very educational. Now I really want to open Zephrys.
On rarity creep
Well, looking back, a lot of legendaries from the early expansions seem questionable, even by "years ago" standarts
These all are actual cards someone decided people would play. I am glad they got better and trully worthless legendaries like
or
are rarity.
Quest deck winrates
Another perspective of quest druid is that 90% of the players complete the quest ASAP without actually trying to remove stuff if it delays their quest, people are not used to play quest druid, the deck might be just MEH but at the same time it's build + gameplay not just build for that deck specifically since it's the only quest that requires a lot of choices during it's completion.. do I waste coin to complete the quest? is this board going to snowball?
Completing the quest 2-3 turns later but not dying to aggro might be a better approach to it, and most players I played against just complete the quest and immediately die..
I predict quest druid will be tier 3 but good players will have their 55% win rate with the right build so the deck might have higher win rate in legend after a few weeks.
Highlander Face Hunter is Rediculous
Then just switch vereesa with siamat same mana slot, another target for sandbinder..
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Ideally the art wouldn’t be a WoW screenshot, but w/e
Next: a dragon with Reborn, but the Reborn also acts as a downside (think Generous Mummy)
Quest deck winrates
These statistics are really interesting. I'm guessing they're from hsreplay. Are they premium only?
Some great insights overall. I guess I thought quest shaman would be more straightforward than it is. Throwing in all the lackey synergies + good lategame value cards such as Swampqueen Hagatha and Shudderwock mixed with some boardclear isn't enough to have the deck reach 50% just yet apparently.
Will be interesting to see how the quests further develop, and what vS' thoughts are coming thursday.
Cora Leaves Casting Hearthstone, Joins the Final Design Team
Still registered at Hearthpwn, had to come here for break from all the spammers and flamers to see some people actually congratulating Cora.
Well done, Cora, hope you will be as valuable an asset as a deigner as you were as a caster!