I think, for me, the ideal number of finalists would be about 4 or 5, but I agree setting a percentage is also a good idea. Granted it comes with a set minimum of 3 spots. 25-30% sounds good.
It hardly seems to matter how much I try to improve my designs or interact in voting. I vote fairy? I get hammered with 1's. I don't vote at all? I get hammered with 1's.
Which…makes it increasingly unappealing to contribute at all.
I don't exactly think it's relevant to my proposal, but it's a concern nonetheless. And I think this answers Basil's question about why there is a finalist vote to begin with. Finalists not being able to vote also prevents them from downvoting their competition. So you might be able to sneak into the finals this way, but it won't increase your chances of winning.
I looked into the last few transparency reports and found a good example. In Make Your Own Luck, you submitted Arcane Power and it got five 1's. Admittedly, one of those was from me. That's because it's a major downgrade from Kirin Tor Tricaster and doesn't bring anything new to the table besides being a spell. It was a good idea, but a second set of eyes could have easily pointed out that Kirin Tor Tricaster already exists. Which is why I think you should follow Demon's advise and try the feedback threads.
Also, getting 1's sucks and there will always be a few unjust ones. This might sound stupid, but try not to focus on the negatives too much, because that will get frustrating. I personally only really check the averages.
Anyway, congrats to BloodMefist on winning our final comp of the Season!
Wow, that went by fast. To think I've already been here for more than a whole season. Congrats, BloodMefist!
Quote From linkblade91
Welp, another instance of me starting in "1st place" only to fall far when the actual finalist voting began. Didn't even get a single 5 :/ Not to sound like a Salty Sally, but it's pretty frustrating.
About that, with a little more experience under my belt, I feel like there might be a few too many finalist spots. I believe last season there was a 'possible improvements'-thread, so this might be a bit prematurely, but I think removing two or three spots might do some good. Here's why:
1. It's not uncommon for the finalists to be equal/more than half of the participants, so it isn't very special to actually make it to the finals. (It's not a major point, but it had to be included.)
2. When your card makes the finals, your vote doesn't count anymore, even if you already know you won't make the top-three. Not being able to both win or decide who does kind of sucks. (This is an instance I've had a few times.)
3. This last one goes both ways. Those who reach the finals clearly have some good ideas and their vote is valuable for the other finalists. Point 1 only strengthens this; the limited amount of voters clearly matters when looking at the difference between regular voting and finalist results (like in your instance).
Just a little something to think/discuss about. Would like to hear everyone's thoughts. Feel free to quote this post to a new thread if needed.
I think going for a Wild card is a bit risky. Sure, every card was Standard at some point, but with the prompt specifying "seeing play at the moment", this feels like an odd choice.
Since it's a dual-class card, I do think you should make sure to include a match for both classes in your submission.
Demonxz95
Ragers are definitely some of the least played minions around and I like how it targets the entire group, similar to SI:7 cards. So this fits the prompt quite well.
A bit nitpicky, but you've played this game is more commonly used for recent cards. Charged Call being the exception for probably spacing reasons.
BloodMefist
I prefer Void Wisp, simply because I think the cards Ambitious Acolyte matches with aren't necessarily unplayable. Although Warlock itself might not see as much play since the meta settled, these cards still see play in Warlock decks. Seeds of Destruction has the lowest include-percentage at 5.3%, but it's hard to pair it with only that card, because Ambiguous Acolyte is already valuable with a few Soul Fragment cards.
Void Wisp, on the other hand, is far more specific in its synergy. It does work with other Discard effects, but has far more value when you can guarantee that the Void Wisp is the card that will be Discarded. I do agree it could do with 2 Health to be a little more playable as well.
Wailor
Solid card. Since it's a dual-class cards, I do think you should include both Magister Dawngrasp and Shadowform in the submission.
SkeithDE
I like The Perfect Challenge the best.
I don't think Chill Out having to be played last adds a lot to the card. A Core Set Frost Nova would also do the same job.
Screeching Nightworm doesn't have the best synergy, because Showstopper needs to survive a turn first.
There's a lot of struggling going on for what sounded like a simple prompt. My card is definitely not the best either, but unless I end up thinking of something more original, I'll probably just submit it.
More More Feedback
linkblade91
I really like the new idea, but it is VERY powerful for a 4-Cost. I'd advise you to rebalance its numbers. Otherwise, at least make it target three random minions (rather than being able to hit the same one multiple times), so it isn't strong against both single big minions AND wide boards.
Demonxz95
If Dr. Smalls is still on the table, I would prefer that one. It's far more unique. Although I still think it should only affect you deck.
Swizard
I totally forgot about [Hearthstone Card (Shadow Step) Not Found]. And all things considered, I think this idea is just too difficult to properly balance.
SkeithDE
I think you should stick to the first idea. I don't like how the second version backfires on Deathrattle minions with 3 or more Health. And otherwise you'd still lose the body. Something like an upgraded version of Animated Berserker would probably do the same job better. It could have extra stats in return for damaging other minions you play. But that's probably for a different competition.
These are both solid cards. But I do think they're a bit lacking for this comp in general, because they don't play around with numbers at all.
Wailor's suggestion isn't a bad idea. It does pose the threat of giving you a big minion on turn 2, but that's probably fine since you could just as well get a weak-statted 3-Cost as Wailor mentioned or even nothing at all.
Demonxz95
It might have a little too much value, but it definitely has good potential.
linkblade91
I dislike the amount of value this now has, even in combination with weapons that don't have any interesting effects. Pull an Arcanite Reaper and it's a free 5 face damage, which kind of defeats the original purpose of your card. Also, I'm sad it doesn't play around with numbers anymore, which is kinda this prompt's thing. If you do keep the current effect, you should at least make it a 3-Cost 2/1.
Swizard
You'll need quite a few small Deathrattle card saved up in your hand to pull this off, so I think the second version would be better.
The effect is nice, but it's a little weak. If it had some synergies, that'd be fine, but I just don't see many decks using this. Playability is half of what makes a card interesting to me.
linkblade91
I'm not a Wild player, but this does seem problematic. It does have potential, though. I would recommend only reducing the Attack and shuffling it back into your deck at the end of the turn, if that fits. It should prevent broken combos while still getting on-attack effects.
Wailor
Shadowbeak Cleric should indeed be phrased differently and is honestly a bit meh. Nexus Collectionist has pretty much everything you could want from it.
Demonxz95
What's crazy is that as I was creating my card, for some reason I had a hunch someone else might come up with the same idea. I guess it's just a little on the nose.
I'm a little confused as to how Dr. Smalls qualifies? Oohhhhh, the numbers are negative! Now your feedback on Wailor makes sense! How did I miss that?
I do really like its effect, because it has some interesting uses. Although I would like it better if it only affected the minions in your deck to prevent it from leading into a big combo turn. I'm also not sure how 0-Health minions will be received.
Noticed your new versions too late. The Storm's Wrath one is probably fine as a 3-Cost. Getting extra stats shouldn't be a problem considering you won't be able to get the effect on-curve.
I do like both of them, but I like the second one better, because it also buffs the Elementals you get from Invoking and combos well with the Neutral Invoke minions.
I like the first version better. It fits the lightning sword flavor well. I think the second version's effect is a bit odd to put on a weapon.
Demonxc95
I hadn't noticed there was already a Herald here. What are the odds?
Wailor does have a point about its value. I don't think it's too crazy, because there weren't many spell Shaman decks, but maybe just reduce the Attack gain to 1. Although we do already have Squallhunter in the same expansion, which is why I think you should go with your second idea.
I definitely think "For each time you've Invoked this game," is going to do well in this comp. Not sure if it has enough flair, but it'll definitely do well playability-wise.
Wailor
I really like Redscale Armorsmith. Particularly how its Battlecry interacts with the Invoke effect. That's two for two with your ideas inspiring people.
I'm less of a fan of Dragonblight Ritualist. Mainly because I just like your other idea better, but also because I think its value scales too slowly.
BloodMefist
I like both of these, but I think you should go with Gronn Taskmaster. Sure, Storming Invocation has some great art, but it'd be the only "If you've played an Elemental last turn," card in the format, which I think is quite problematic. Also, it should be a Nature spell.
SkeithDE
Welcome! It's been a while since a new creator showed up, because that's how long I've been here! I look forward to seeing your ideas.
I really like how its effect casts an Overload spell, so you still have to sort of pay for the extra effect. However, I do feel it's a bit too difficult to get the effect, compared to its value. There aren't a lot of Invoke cards, which is why the "Invoked twice"-cards have quite strong effects. Your card only requires one Invoke, but getting it on the same turn can be difficult.
Also, a 4/4 3-Cost is kind of unusual. For minions of 2 Mana or higher you should probably stick to a stat total of (Cost * 2 + 1) max, unless they have some sort of negative effect.
There weren't really enough Elemental synergies to make a deck around them, but this should be fine since you can get more Elementals through Invoking and it strengthens Elementals that may have already been worth including in a deck.
EDIT: I did consider making it a 5-Cost 3/6. Thoughts?
New version. Absolutely not sure about the text. Also what is better Discover or random? Rogue or neutral?
Definitely a Rogue card. Because Rogue can shuffle extra copies or return it to your hand. Also, random is fine balance-wise, since it's already a value card. However, I think you should make it Discover instead, because often Brawl cards give you cards in hand, so you can choose which to play when. If this doesn't Discover, there will be no choice whatsoever (because all your cards are the same) making RNG far too dominant. I'm partly guilty of this myself, but I believe my card still adds a bit of strategy that is unique to its Brawl.
Text should probably be: (Upgrades for each Gang Recruiter you played this game!) Or did you mean by either player? Also, if you do stick with random, I think the Enter after the second line makes it look weird.
Also "worst cards" usually means just something unfitting the situation.
In my eyes the worst possible cards are the ones that you can't play/won't have an effect, like Bestial Wrath, Deadly Poison, Totemic Might, Sacrificial Pact, Sense Demons and Shield Slam. There's more, but these seem like the ones the game could most easily recognize as useless. (I'm so sorry, but at this point I just had to look into it) Noticably, these are all spells. You could limit the effect to minions, although you'd likely just get plain stats, which makes for a boring Brawl.
I guess in the end it's really just open to interpretation.
Quote From Wailor
Let me know which version you prefer.
I prefer the the Rogue version, mainly because I'm a very practical person and put playability and balance before flavor (it's not like we draw our own art anyway, we just have to hope we find something fitting). I do understand why you'd want to keep the art and it won't make enough of a difference to change my vote.
It's kind of a worse Forbidden Shaping. Would probably be more interesting with a set Cost, like the Scheme cards. Also, it seems pretty boring for a Brawl. The art is perfect, but I'd try coming up with a different effect.
Wailor
Agree with "Studies card". Although I do think it's a bit too high in value for a Neutral card. I advice increasing its stats and cost or making it a Rogue card.
R
Its value is too high. I think you should go with unspent Mana.
Nirast
The second version might be better balance-wise, since you'd want to try and shuffle more of them into your deck. But it's more of a constructed card. I could literally calculate which person would win the Brawl. (Spoiler Alert: It's whoever goes second!) You must embrace the randomness!
BloodMefist
Solid card! Gives you plenty of choice, but you gotta plan one turn at a time, which is very fitting for a Brawl.
BasilAnguis
I love how absolutely stupid this card is. Sadly, there should be enough worthless cards for both players to end up with a full hand of unplayable cards until one of them dies of fatigue, so I'm afraid it's not Brawl material.
It's definitely weaker than Evolve though. I don't think paying two extra mana for the effect to get what is essentially a random 2-Cost minion to your evolution board is going to be worth it.
That's actually intended. Evolve can be really strong after a turn of playing small-medium Battlecry minions. Which is why I think we won't be seeing it rotate into Standard a lot, even though Evolve decks are really fun. Runic Portal pushes those kind of turns a little further into late-game.
Quote From Demonxz95
What do you consider to be more important for the competition?
Definitely Brawl-potential for me. That's what this prompt is all about. Playability in constructed is simply less important (yes, I see the irony), because there are plenty of cards nobody uses. On the contrary, balance is important in constructed, but doesn't matter for Brawls because those are allowed to be chaotic.
My phone is not agreeing with Imgur, so here's a temporary image.
I imagine it being discounted for use in a Brawl. Of course it's going to be a bit RNG-heavy, but that's what makes Brawls fun! Wouldn't you just love having an ever-evolving board? In constructed it's a less abusable Evolve. My only concern is the spell school, since evolving generally uses Nature or no school.
I think Prince's Ring is a worthwhile idea, although I'm not sure about the wording. Lute of Divinity and Saint's Skull are just not effects that should stick around all game.
Honestly, I think your should consider revisiting Ring of Purity. People, including myself, seem pretty positive about it. As linkblade mentioned, its main issue is the possibility to silence enemies whenever you want. A simple fix could be having your HP's silence only affect friendly minions.
If it being convoluted is a concern, perhaps making the first effect only apply to the HP makes it clearer: "Your Hero Power also Silences friendly minions it targets, but doesn't remove the effects of spells you've cast on them."
I created Tide's Memento with Shifting Scroll as inspiration, focussing on seeing your spell before choosing if and when to cast it. I totally forgot about The Runespear. It's definitely a problem, but at this point I'll just submit it.
Basil makes a good point. I don't think people will like how unclean the effect reads and it was kind of unusual.
Added "to learn" so it's clear you don't actually get a copy of the spell. The Discovery gives you a lot more control over it, but I only increased the cost to 4 Mana because it takes multiple turns, target are RNG-based and the spells still Overload. Might still be too cheap, since you could get some bigger spells. Let me know.
I like the minion support for Mage. The second one costs X Mana to get Y Mana to spend on minions only, which I kinda have a problem with, which is why I was a bigger fan of the first option. However, like Basil said both can very easily be abused, so I think you should go with Wailor's idea of it applying to the first minion per turn only.
With that being the case, I personally prefer the second option, since I don't like that the first one pushes you to play big minions to get your worth. The second option still rewards you for playing big minions, but if you play smaller ones, you can still use that durability later.
Wailor
The Red Grimoire has a neat effect, but even though the payoff is slow, I think it's too cheap for the value it gives. As to whether it's flashy enough, I think it's probably fine, but it would also work was a minion passive.
Horn of Cenarius feels more Legendary. I think it scales well; it's a cheap card and you'll easily get some Nature spells in, but you won't have much use for it on-curve. It's currently a bit broken though. It's fine to refill your board twice or so for momentum, but summoning infinitely is insane.
BloodMefist
Gaze of the Void is okay. It feels balanced and supports the archetype well.
I do prefer Orb of Dominion. Although it gives your opponent a bit of control over the situation, it's a great control tool and often gives you your Mana's worth, which makes it a great card for Priest. Worst case scenario, you destroy 3 small minions and prevent your opponent from playing larger minions for a turn or so. If you're worried about value, it might still be fine as a 4-cost since it's a slower payoff.
BasilAnguis
I like Ring of Purity best. It provides a really nice upgrade for an otherwise lacking archetype. And just fits Priest very well in general. I do dislike that the effect needs to be permanent to be profitable, but can be removed entirely by tech cards.
Saint's Skull's effect is clear to me and I really like it. I'm a sucker for these kinds of utility effects that give you more options. However, it feels too strong to be in effect permanently. I don't think it should have limited durability, since you're already paying with your original spell. Maybe limit it to 1 extra option? That does makes it a lot worse, since the spells in your hand/deck are often the better option, so maybe just increasing the cost. Also, you forgot to capitalize Discover, although it's not exactly how discovering works, so maybe "look at 2 others" would be better.
Ring of Strength seems very abusable. Warrior has a lot of weapons it could stack up to get 9 or so damage a turn.
I think, for me, the ideal number of finalists would be about 4 or 5, but I agree setting a percentage is also a good idea. Granted it comes with a set minimum of 3 spots. 25-30% sounds good.
I don't exactly think it's relevant to my proposal, but it's a concern nonetheless. And I think this answers Basil's question about why there is a finalist vote to begin with. Finalists not being able to vote also prevents them from downvoting their competition. So you might be able to sneak into the finals this way, but it won't increase your chances of winning.
I looked into the last few transparency reports and found a good example. In Make Your Own Luck, you submitted Arcane Power and it got five 1's. Admittedly, one of those was from me. That's because it's a major downgrade from Kirin Tor Tricaster and doesn't bring anything new to the table besides being a spell. It was a good idea, but a second set of eyes could have easily pointed out that Kirin Tor Tricaster already exists. Which is why I think you should follow Demon's advise and try the feedback threads.
Also, getting 1's sucks and there will always be a few unjust ones. This might sound stupid, but try not to focus on the negatives too much, because that will get frustrating. I personally only really check the averages.
Wow, that went by fast. To think I've already been here for more than a whole season. Congrats, BloodMefist!
About that, with a little more experience under my belt, I feel like there might be a few too many finalist spots. I believe last season there was a 'possible improvements'-thread, so this might be a bit prematurely, but I think removing two or three spots might do some good. Here's why:
1. It's not uncommon for the finalists to be equal/more than half of the participants, so it isn't very special to actually make it to the finals. (It's not a major point, but it had to be included.)
2. When your card makes the finals, your vote doesn't count anymore, even if you already know you won't make the top-three. Not being able to both win or decide who does kind of sucks. (This is an instance I've had a few times.)
3. This last one goes both ways. Those who reach the finals clearly have some good ideas and their vote is valuable for the other finalists. Point 1 only strengthens this; the limited amount of voters clearly matters when looking at the difference between regular voting and finalist results (like in your instance).
Just a little something to think/discuss about. Would like to hear everyone's thoughts. Feel free to quote this post to a new thread if needed.
Since it's a dual-class card, I do think you should make sure to include a match for both classes in your submission.
A bit nitpicky, but you've played this game is more commonly used for recent cards. Charged Call being the exception for probably spacing reasons.
Void Wisp, on the other hand, is far more specific in its synergy. It does work with other Discard effects, but has far more value when you can guarantee that the Void Wisp is the card that will be Discarded. I do agree it could do with 2 Health to be a little more playable as well.
I don't think Chill Out having to be played last adds a lot to the card. A Core Set Frost Nova would also do the same job.
Screeching Nightworm doesn't have the best synergy, because Showstopper needs to survive a turn first.
There's a lot of struggling going on for what sounded like a simple prompt. My card is definitely not the best either, but unless I end up thinking of something more original, I'll probably just submit it.
Wailor's suggestion isn't a bad idea. It does pose the threat of giving you a big minion on turn 2, but that's probably fine since you could just as well get a weak-statted 3-Cost as Wailor mentioned or even nothing at all.
I'm a little confused as to how Dr. Smalls qualifies? Oohhhhh, the numbers are negative! Now your feedback on Wailor makes sense! How did I miss that?
I do really like its effect, because it has some interesting uses. Although I would like it better if it only affected the minions in your deck to prevent it from leading into a big combo turn. I'm also not sure how 0-Health minions will be received.
"Is it even an infestation if they only have one body?"
I do like both of them, but I like the second one better, because it also buffs the Elementals you get from Invoking and combos well with the Neutral Invoke minions.
Wailor does have a point about its value. I don't think it's too crazy, because there weren't many spell Shaman decks, but maybe just reduce the Attack gain to 1. Although we do already have Squallhunter in the same expansion, which is why I think you should go with your second idea.
I definitely think "For each time you've Invoked this game," is going to do well in this comp. Not sure if it has enough flair, but it'll definitely do well playability-wise.
I'm less of a fan of Dragonblight Ritualist. Mainly because I just like your other idea better, but also because I think its value scales too slowly.
I really like how its effect casts an Overload spell, so you still have to sort of pay for the extra effect. However, I do feel it's a bit too difficult to get the effect, compared to its value. There aren't a lot of Invoke cards, which is why the "Invoked twice"-cards have quite strong effects. Your card only requires one Invoke, but getting it on the same turn can be difficult.
Also, a 4/4 3-Cost is kind of unusual. For minions of 2 Mana or higher you should probably stick to a stat total of (Cost * 2 + 1) max, unless they have some sort of negative effect.
My third Shaman card in a row.
There weren't really enough Elemental synergies to make a deck around them, but this should be fine since you can get more Elementals through Invoking and it strengthens Elementals that may have already been worth including in a deck.
EDIT: I did consider making it a 5-Cost 3/6. Thoughts?
Definitely a Rogue card. Because Rogue can shuffle extra copies or return it to your hand. Also, random is fine balance-wise, since it's already a value card. However, I think you should make it Discover instead, because often Brawl cards give you cards in hand, so you can choose which to play when. If this doesn't Discover, there will be no choice whatsoever (because all your cards are the same) making RNG far too dominant. I'm partly guilty of this myself, but I believe my card still adds a bit of strategy that is unique to its Brawl.
Text should probably be: (Upgrades for each Gang Recruiter you played this game!) Or did you mean by either player? Also, if you do stick with random, I think the Enter after the second line makes it look weird.
In my eyes the worst possible cards are the ones that you can't play/won't have an effect, like Bestial Wrath, Deadly Poison, Totemic Might, Sacrificial Pact, Sense Demons and Shield Slam. There's more, but these seem like the ones the game could most easily recognize as useless. (I'm so sorry, but at this point I just had to look into it) Noticably, these are all spells. You could limit the effect to minions, although you'd likely just get plain stats, which makes for a boring Brawl.
I guess in the end it's really just open to interpretation.
I prefer the the Rogue version, mainly because I'm a very practical person and put playability and balance before flavor (it's not like we draw our own art anyway, we just have to hope we find something fitting). I do understand why you'd want to keep the art and it won't make enough of a difference to change my vote.
That's actually intended. Evolve can be really strong after a turn of playing small-medium Battlecry minions. Which is why I think we won't be seeing it rotate into Standard a lot, even though Evolve decks are really fun. Runic Portal pushes those kind of turns a little further into late-game.
Definitely Brawl-potential for me. That's what this prompt is all about. Playability in constructed is simply less important (yes, I see the irony), because there are plenty of cards nobody uses. On the contrary, balance is important in constructed, but doesn't matter for Brawls because those are allowed to be chaotic.
My phone is not agreeing with Imgur, so here's a temporary image.
I imagine it being discounted for use in a Brawl. Of course it's going to be a bit RNG-heavy, but that's what makes Brawls fun! Wouldn't you just love having an ever-evolving board? In constructed it's a less abusable Evolve. My only concern is the spell school, since evolving generally uses Nature or no school.
Honestly, I think your should consider revisiting Ring of Purity. People, including myself, seem pretty positive about it. As linkblade mentioned, its main issue is the possibility to silence enemies whenever you want. A simple fix could be having your HP's silence only affect friendly minions.
If it being convoluted is a concern, perhaps making the first effect only apply to the HP makes it clearer: "Your Hero Power also Silences friendly minions it targets, but doesn't remove the effects of spells you've cast on them."
I created Tide's Memento with Shifting Scroll as inspiration, focussing on seeing your spell before choosing if and when to cast it. I totally forgot about The Runespear. It's definitely a problem, but at this point I'll just submit it.
Basil makes a good point. I don't think people will like how unclean the effect reads and it was kind of unusual.
Added "to learn" so it's clear you don't actually get a copy of the spell. The Discovery gives you a lot more control over it, but I only increased the cost to 4 Mana because it takes multiple turns, target are RNG-based and the spells still Overload. Might still be too cheap, since you could get some bigger spells. Let me know.
Love this prompt, so many interesting ideas!
With that being the case, I personally prefer the second option, since I don't like that the first one pushes you to play big minions to get your worth. The second option still rewards you for playing big minions, but if you play smaller ones, you can still use that durability later.
Horn of Cenarius feels more Legendary. I think it scales well; it's a cheap card and you'll easily get some Nature spells in, but you won't have much use for it on-curve. It's currently a bit broken though. It's fine to refill your board twice or so for momentum, but summoning infinitely is insane.
I do prefer Orb of Dominion. Although it gives your opponent a bit of control over the situation, it's a great control tool and often gives you your Mana's worth, which makes it a great card for Priest. Worst case scenario, you destroy 3 small minions and prevent your opponent from playing larger minions for a turn or so. If you're worried about value, it might still be fine as a 4-cost since it's a slower payoff.
Saint's Skull's effect is clear to me and I really like it. I'm a sucker for these kinds of utility effects that give you more options. However, it feels too strong to be in effect permanently. I don't think it should have limited durability, since you're already paying with your original spell. Maybe limit it to 1 extra option? That does makes it a lot worse, since the spells in your hand/deck are often the better option, so maybe just increasing the cost. Also, you forgot to capitalize Discover, although it's not exactly how discovering works, so maybe "look at 2 others" would be better.
Ring of Strength seems very abusable. Warrior has a lot of weapons it could stack up to get 9 or so damage a turn.