The stats might be an interesting showcase of what happens yet again when you live within a polarising rock-paper-scissors meta. Quest mage might not be the 'best' deck statistically as shown by the pic, but it sure doesn't feel that way whenever you're facing it. And while handbuff pally is shown to have a higher win rate, it really does fold rather quickly to the combo decks.
Far as Im concerned its likely because everyone is teching against combo (Cult Neophyte, Far Watch Post, cheaper and smaller decklist etc.) that whenever you meet a handbuff pally youre just in such a poor condition to face it.
I kinda blanked on conviction as a holy spell to be honest. In that case, I think it'll have to be dropped because having a 100% to draw blessed goods and therefore complete 1 tier of the quest is simply more important. But it does allow for a burst finish so the choice is yours I guess.
Sneaky Delinquent is a good 2 drop in a meta without any minions because it virtually guarantees 3 damage to the face in the early game and after its dead it gives you a second stealth minion to go with Battleground Battlemaster in the midgame. While obviously both mage and warlock runs some board clears, they only have two. Its not an absolute counter card, but its basically the best we have at the moment for a midgame burst.
But I'd argue that its deliberate made that way by the devs, to increase interactivity (and therefore, subjectively, fun). Play a couple of games in classic and suddenly the game may be fairer (Lack of removals means more minion activity) but honestly unless you're specifically playing miracle rogue you're basically playing 1-2 cards per turn. The mechanics were simple, and there's very little reason to think because nearly everything is predictable: druid ramp on 2, zoo curvestone, turn 4 giant, etc.
In order to break that cycle you have to either 1) increase the rate and efficiency of card draw, or 2) increase card generation. They balance that out by designing the cards with a lower statline or at a higher cost. So in effect you're trading tempo for card draw/generation.
I wouldn't say that an increased in card draw efficiency makes the game less interesting. Looking at the meta in the earliest history of hearthstone and honestly, the games were fairly predictable and repetitive. The most extreme example would be to look at hunter's history. The early parts were entirely made up of face/midrange hunters that practically played nothing but curvestone. It was not until Master's Call was introduced that we had hunter actually playing off curve and keeping cards in hand for a bigger finish. Similarly shaman in barrens didn't really got anywhere until Primal Dungeoneer was introduced, which then proceed to make possible elemental shaman, doomhammer shaman, and arguably control shaman.
We are moving towards a phase where the old definition of control can no longer exist because hearthstone has evolved past curvestone. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. The ultimate objective should be to keep the value just low enough that control decks can exist, but high enough to give decks stuff to do instead of having their stuff repeatedly removed from board every turn. In my view, the best meta should ideally be 50-50 no matter the archetype, and avoiding polarising rock-paper-scissors games.
Finally, will reducing the card draw efficiency of classes that feature this identity solve the problem? Not really in my opinion. Looking at the past barrens meta, miracle rouge can draw their whole deck but not necessarily win the match, while controlock hardly ever draws outside of hp. No gameplan can exist solely by drawing cards, because card draw options are inherently tempo-losing.
That is...until we were given this freakish meta to exist in.
The current meta we live in currently isn't normal. Its that polarising rock-paper-scissors bs that pits combo on one end and hyper aggro on the other. Mage transcends that by literally having a good matchup no matter what the opposition is, and will lose only because they didn't draw their Incanter's Flow early enough, or the opponent scored a combo for lethal from 30 health at turn 5-7.
Its not the card draw. Its because team5 have ramped the power level of certain cards like Ignite, Stealer of Souls and Garrote that enabled lethal setup by turn 5. Card draw facilitated it, sure. But without these super-saiyan blue levels of bs it'll be all for naught. As I said, you can't have a gameplan that ignores everything but card draw...unless that is the very win condition in itself (which is what we have now). And that's something team5 can easily design around.
I don't like calling for nerfs this early into an expansion. But not since the bs of pre-nerf small spell mage and Solarian Prime have I ever been so desperate for a change. Even when lunacy mage was raising hell, I can still play midrange decks with a gameplan to stop them. But this meta denies me even that. I dont like playing tier 1 or hyper aggro decks; but what choice do I have?
Dont think its a bug. Its not a 'disguise'. What it really means is that you transform into another class at the start of the game and transform back when you play a rogue card.
That would explain why youre able to discover cards from the disguise's class rather than rogue cards.
It really depends on the meta youre facing. The decklist is fine, but sphere is iffy to me. If its against mage, miracle rogue, questlock, and OTK dhunters, I'd also rather just ditch the cornelius and alliance bannerman for what seems to be the go-to anti-combo tech now: Sneaky Delinquent and Battleground Battlemaster. If this is your game, then conviction should stay, otherwise I'd get rid of it.
There's also a small consideration for Cult Neophyte, but for some reason Im seeing lots of guys fit in SI:7 Skulker into pally decks now. Maybe that's the edge it needs against all these combo decks. Havent tried that myself.
Also, if you're really a gamer, throw in Mutanus. Many quest decks dont tend to play around this card so you may just snipe out their win condition.
Games and decklists are revolved around mage. So its unsurprising that handbuff pally has a near auto win against everything except for mage. I would recommend to those interested in pally to ditch the heavy cards like Cornelius Roame and Varian, King of Stormwind. Games just never get that far. You're much better off with Mutanus and a very early board.
Also, viper just updated his decklist. Removing Kodo Mount for Voracious Reader. Having played aggro druid myself, I can confirm that that is the correct change because if druid isn't having a full board by turn 4 chances are good you've already lost. And the hand is mostly empty past turn 4 anyway.
This is the most combo focused (and the fastest combo) meta we've ever had in my memory. So unsurprisingly midrange and control aren't going to be good, which is a shame because that's usually where we see more diversity and interaction in the meta. Its all hyper aggro or combo now.
Yes Quests are Spells , like Secrets or Sigils - which also have not an extra type and don't realy need one i guess !
Cost Reduction does not work with the Quest - for example if the Quest says play an 8-Cost card it only recognizes the Cost you play it for - not the original cost. So if you have an 8 Cost card and reduce that to 7 it will not count as 8 Cost for the Quest.
Hope that helps!
Isn't this reported as a bug? Apparently the cost reductions for cards costed more than 8 wouldn't be considered in the priest quest but anything below that will look at the cost reductions. Reddit reporting, so take that for what you will.
There's two main decks at the moment. One with and without auctioneer. You can view it in hsreplay (dont take the winrate at face value, its definitely better than it looks). The Persistent Peddler - Tuskpiercer combo was very unexpected, but will help a great deal in finishing the quest.
I made some adjustments of my own (like removing Glide because that's the very pinnacle of niche cards). We are in one of those very polarizing rock-paper-scissors meta right now, so make adjustments as you see fit.
In the current meta, its actually easier than I thought to complete it. Often enough you'll be done with kurtrus in your hand by around turn 6. First tier done by turn 2-3 most of the time.
Definitely this quest has exceeded nearly everyone's (and my own) expectations. But obviously the meta being what it is at the moment that's hardly surprising.
I think the HS team really screwed up with the entire expansion here. Because if Mage gets nerfed, then Warlock will need to be nerfed as well because that deck is disgustingly strong and only being held back by Mage. And then if it’s not Mage/Warlock it will be Shaman and so on… everything is at way too high of a power level right now,
Not really. Questlock doesn't have the infinite board clears, and if you ooze their mithril rod its really too slow to stop all those minions on board. No doubt the current built is unpolished because mage is practically everywhere, but I wouldn't call questlock OP.
The real problem currently is mage. Interestingly, the current quest mage build actually has minions because everyone is simply not playing minions to stop mage from finishing the quest. You really can't play against mage with minions at all because they cycle so well, so efficiently, and has literally infinite damage. Every deck by default has to have Cult Neophyte or some burst option for the end game because the later you go the more impossible it is to stick minions.
Currently mage beats everything cleanly except for doomhammer shaman and quest druid. No elaborations required.
Yes its a spell and has always been a spell. If team5 were to rework it into something else, they'd need a very good reason to do so, like how hero cards are considered as neither spell nor minions. For now, its a spell because when quests were first made that was what it is.
Far as I know cost reduction should work with the quest. Remembered seeing it somewhere. But not having played one I can't say for sure. Unfortunately quest priest kinda sucks in standard so I didn't met many on the way myself.
It appears Garrote Rogue has entered the competition to beat Mage for position of best single player deck.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we get a hotfix nerf for both of those decks within a week. I don't think we've ever had a meta were combo decks are faster at killing you than the actual aggro decks.
At least garrote may actually be a bug because the bleeds for some reason works with spell damage.
Well, it is technically a spell..
The only two other examples I can think of thats damage done with the 'cast when drawn' mechanic, bombs and Iron Juggernauts burrowing mine, and those doesn't work with spell damage.
It appears Garrote Rogue has entered the competition to beat Mage for position of best single player deck.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we get a hotfix nerf for both of those decks within a week. I don't think we've ever had a meta were combo decks are faster at killing you than the actual aggro decks.
At least garrote may actually be a bug because the bleeds for some reason works with spell damage.
This reminds me a lot of the video game crash of 1983. ATARI had become large enough that they got lazy and complacent. Because of that they engaged in anti-consumer practices and it ended up biting them in the butt three years later when 'Nintendo Entertainment System' had become a household name.
Wasnt this entirely because of hubris? I mean, trying to make a game within 3 months, paying 20mil (a very very large sum back then) for the licensing and then massive salaries to the developer. Once that flopped (I mean look at it, its shit so far up the dark end you'd need a astronomer's telescope to view its astounding shittiness) ATARI's fall was only inevitable.
It wasn't controversy or competition that doomed it, far as I know. Nintendo penetrated the western market after its fall.
I was wondering when someone would start a post like this.
Its the start of the expansion, and people are still playing around with quests because its the new thing in town. But like all things pretty and new its only a matter of time before no one gives a shit and starts playing to win.
Quest are currently viable because the meta is slow enough to allow it, thanks in no small part because everyone else is playing quest decks as well. You'll be lucky to see a minion drop before turn 3. Once everything is cleared up Im sure the meta would be more diverse than what it looks now.
In a separate note, is everyone sleeping on quest shaman? I havent seen a single hate directed at it so far, and after playing it for 3 hours I think its even more powerful than mage.
I'm genuinely worried that we might enter a Aggro vs. Quest meta with 0 control or value strategies.
Currently no slow deck can outlast the Quest decks (at least not the playable ones). The only way to beat those (outside of a lucky Mutanus) is by abusing the fact that they are slow as balls and just rushing them down. Even that is not a guaranteed strategy because most of the effective quests can be completed around turn 8 or 9.
I don't think any game with a long term plan that isn't a Quest deck can survive the onslaught and I fear we might need a bunch of nerfs to the quests just to make sure that Control remains a viable strategy.
Kind feels like Un'goro, except every Quest class is Rogue.
Probably still too early to call for nerfs, though Im very partial to seeing Incanter's Flow burning in hell.
Quest decks are slow and will get slower as they adapt their game towards faster decks. The only decks that currently have a near guaranteed win against a traditional control deck would be questlock, mage, and priest. Nearly everyone else runs out of stuff at some point.
Also, everyone is playing quest at the moment because its a shiny new toy. I'd imagine that in a week of two and we'll be seeing old midrange pally everywhere like we used to again. Then we can start dreaming of slower decks.
Yeah except Quest Mage wins by turn 8 without even having to jump through hoops. It can't run out of cards, it can't run out of damage and it gets 16 extra health.
Questlock is the same but at least it has the decency to damage itself so you can try to race it.
Quest Hunter is the "balanced" version which still kills you once the complete their quest but is more likely to actually run out of steam.
Rogue is weaker but once Scabbs comes down you#re basically on a clock too unless you have removal for days (which is fine on paper, but once again enforces that you have to race it)
Incanter's Flow isn't even the main problem anymore, Mage wins just as easily without it. Permanent +3 spell damage is broken in every scenario. It has to go down to +2 at the very least
I still dont get why people even bother with the quest in mage. The deck has to run stuff like Cone of Cold, Flurry (Rank 1), and Ice Barriers. They're even dropping Font of Power and Devolving Missiles these days. Once the meta turns outside of quests and minions start dropping on curve I doubt quest mage will still be able to do the same without dying.
I'd much rather have a better chance at getting Incanter's Flow on 2 and just use the sheer power of cheap spells, Ignite, Fireball and Apexis Blast to win the game.
Its too early to call for nerfs. Everyone is playing either quest or trying to cheat a few wins with the old meta face hunter and elemental shaman. I'd say give it a couple of weeks, and it'll be clearer what should be on top and what needs a little trimming.
I'm genuinely worried that we might enter a Aggro vs. Quest meta with 0 control or value strategies.
Currently no slow deck can outlast the Quest decks (at least not the playable ones). The only way to beat those (outside of a lucky Mutanus) is by abusing the fact that they are slow as balls and just rushing them down. Even that is not a guaranteed strategy because most of the effective quests can be completed around turn 8 or 9.
I don't think any game with a long term plan that isn't a Quest deck can survive the onslaught and I fear we might need a bunch of nerfs to the quests just to make sure that Control remains a viable strategy.
Kind feels like Un'goro, except every Quest class is Rogue.
Probably still too early to call for nerfs, though Im very partial to seeing Incanter's Flow burning in hell.
Quest decks are slow and will get slower as they adapt their game towards faster decks. The only decks that currently have a near guaranteed win against a traditional control deck would be questlock, mage, and priest. Nearly everyone else runs out of stuff at some point.
Also, everyone is playing quest at the moment because its a shiny new toy. I'd imagine that in a week of two and we'll be seeing old midrange pally everywhere like we used to again. Then we can start dreaming of slower decks.
Gotta disagree with the OP here. Raid the Docks feels really weak right now. I tried building a control shell with it and a somewhat midrange one, and I didn't win a game in 6 tries. Maybe my builds just suck, but it feels really slow compared to the burn meta we're having right now. A better list might emerge, but I don't think it's gonna be a nerf candidate at all.
Defend the Dwarven District seems to be Tier 2 at best for now. I haven't played it, but from my observations while facing this deck, it struggles against board-centric decks and loses gas fast, which was expected. Its ideal game plan is to just direct every damage to face, but with its lack of card draw options that's just not a reliable plan. An interesting strategy would be to go the control route and basically set up for an OTK turn in the late game, but Hunter just doesn't have many defensive tools. I've beaten all Tavish Hunters I've faced with my Quest Warlock, which sounds insane.
Speaking of Quest Warlock, it feels really good to play, and pretty solid too. Warlock's defensive toolkit is really strong right now so surviving into the late game against aggro isn't impossible now. Touch of the Nathrezim and Demonic Assault(one of the underrated cards of the set) make this deck viable. I'm still not sure about this deck's viability once some refined aggro decks come out, but I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
And once again, Mage is a huge pain in the ass at the start of the expansion. It just sucks when your opponent doesn't play any minions and just burns your face again and again, especially when your gameplan is dependent on interacting with opponents' minions. The Mage quest looks like bait though; a more straightforward Spell Mage seems like the better option.
The nerf targets I'm seeing are Incanter's Flow (should've been nerfed last expansion, honestly) and Ignite. The latter will just murder any control deck with its infinite value. Why did they print that?
I agree with this bolden part of the statement, but would say the same thing applies to Warlock, it too is a very uninteractive deck to play against for similar reasons. There is no real way to interact with how it tries to kill you.
To be fair, that applies to just about all the quest that was introduced and obviously that's what everyone is playing at the moment. All the quest decks are practically single player; just complete the quest and load up the win condition. The only interactive part of it is that your opponent can screw you over by playing no minions, and even then its not a guarantee.
That's not to say that its a bad thing. Its good to have a variety of decks that isn't just loading up the board, but its quite another thing entirely when most of the games you're playing is basically just a single player fest. I can only hope that a week later the meta would form somewhat and we start seeing more board focused decks.
I loved lego myself when I was a kid. But bafflingly I always end up building according to script once before taking it all down and enjoying the true spirit of lego blocks - building your own shit from the top of your head. I remember building a model hand with movable parts way back then, no scripts.
And then computers came along, and suddenly lego seems a bit like a model toy: build it once, place into glass podium, and then never come back.
The stats might be an interesting showcase of what happens yet again when you live within a polarising rock-paper-scissors meta. Quest mage might not be the 'best' deck statistically as shown by the pic, but it sure doesn't feel that way whenever you're facing it. And while handbuff pally is shown to have a higher win rate, it really does fold rather quickly to the combo decks.
Far as Im concerned its likely because everyone is teching against combo (Cult Neophyte, Far Watch Post, cheaper and smaller decklist etc.) that whenever you meet a handbuff pally youre just in such a poor condition to face it.
I kinda blanked on conviction as a holy spell to be honest. In that case, I think it'll have to be dropped because having a 100% to draw blessed goods and therefore complete 1 tier of the quest is simply more important. But it does allow for a burst finish so the choice is yours I guess.
Sneaky Delinquent is a good 2 drop in a meta without any minions because it virtually guarantees 3 damage to the face in the early game and after its dead it gives you a second stealth minion to go with Battleground Battlemaster in the midgame. While obviously both mage and warlock runs some board clears, they only have two. Its not an absolute counter card, but its basically the best we have at the moment for a midgame burst.
Its a nice analysis on card draw power creep.
But I'd argue that its deliberate made that way by the devs, to increase interactivity (and therefore, subjectively, fun). Play a couple of games in classic and suddenly the game may be fairer (Lack of removals means more minion activity) but honestly unless you're specifically playing miracle rogue you're basically playing 1-2 cards per turn. The mechanics were simple, and there's very little reason to think because nearly everything is predictable: druid ramp on 2, zoo curvestone, turn 4 giant, etc.
In order to break that cycle you have to either 1) increase the rate and efficiency of card draw, or 2) increase card generation. They balance that out by designing the cards with a lower statline or at a higher cost. So in effect you're trading tempo for card draw/generation.
I wouldn't say that an increased in card draw efficiency makes the game less interesting. Looking at the meta in the earliest history of hearthstone and honestly, the games were fairly predictable and repetitive. The most extreme example would be to look at hunter's history. The early parts were entirely made up of face/midrange hunters that practically played nothing but curvestone. It was not until Master's Call was introduced that we had hunter actually playing off curve and keeping cards in hand for a bigger finish. Similarly shaman in barrens didn't really got anywhere until Primal Dungeoneer was introduced, which then proceed to make possible elemental shaman, doomhammer shaman, and arguably control shaman.
We are moving towards a phase where the old definition of control can no longer exist because hearthstone has evolved past curvestone. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. The ultimate objective should be to keep the value just low enough that control decks can exist, but high enough to give decks stuff to do instead of having their stuff repeatedly removed from board every turn. In my view, the best meta should ideally be 50-50 no matter the archetype, and avoiding polarising rock-paper-scissors games.
Finally, will reducing the card draw efficiency of classes that feature this identity solve the problem? Not really in my opinion. Looking at the past barrens meta, miracle rouge can draw their whole deck but not necessarily win the match, while controlock hardly ever draws outside of hp. No gameplan can exist solely by drawing cards, because card draw options are inherently tempo-losing.
That is...until we were given this freakish meta to exist in.
The current meta we live in currently isn't normal. Its that polarising rock-paper-scissors bs that pits combo on one end and hyper aggro on the other. Mage transcends that by literally having a good matchup no matter what the opposition is, and will lose only because they didn't draw their Incanter's Flow early enough, or the opponent scored a combo for lethal from 30 health at turn 5-7.
Its not the card draw. Its because team5 have ramped the power level of certain cards like Ignite, Stealer of Souls and Garrote that enabled lethal setup by turn 5. Card draw facilitated it, sure. But without these super-saiyan blue levels of bs it'll be all for naught. As I said, you can't have a gameplan that ignores everything but card draw...unless that is the very win condition in itself (which is what we have now). And that's something team5 can easily design around.
I don't like calling for nerfs this early into an expansion. But not since the bs of pre-nerf small spell mage and Solarian Prime have I ever been so desperate for a change. Even when lunacy mage was raising hell, I can still play midrange decks with a gameplan to stop them. But this meta denies me even that. I dont like playing tier 1 or hyper aggro decks; but what choice do I have?
A small note: You referenced Primordial Explorer in the third paragraph, which I assume should be Primal Dungeoneer instead
Dont think its a bug. Its not a 'disguise'. What it really means is that you transform into another class at the start of the game and transform back when you play a rogue card.
That would explain why youre able to discover cards from the disguise's class rather than rogue cards.
It really depends on the meta youre facing. The decklist is fine, but sphere is iffy to me. If its against mage, miracle rogue, questlock, and OTK dhunters, I'd also rather just ditch the cornelius and alliance bannerman for what seems to be the go-to anti-combo tech now: Sneaky Delinquent and Battleground Battlemaster. If this is your game, then conviction should stay, otherwise I'd get rid of it.
There's also a small consideration for Cult Neophyte, but for some reason Im seeing lots of guys fit in SI:7 Skulker into pally decks now. Maybe that's the edge it needs against all these combo decks. Havent tried that myself.
Also, if you're really a gamer, throw in Mutanus. Many quest decks dont tend to play around this card so you may just snipe out their win condition.
Oh and never put Hand of A'dal into this deck. The point is for Knight of Anointment to always fetch you Blessed Goods.
Congrats, only a matter of time before I see this genius level play, not playing quest on turn 1 or testing Oh My Yogg! against pally.
Just curious, what is that Sphere of Sapience there for? Doesn't look like you'll ever need it since obviously you'll mull for First Day of School or a 1 drop minion, and there's 2x Sword of the Fallen in the deck anyway.
Games and decklists are revolved around mage. So its unsurprising that handbuff pally has a near auto win against everything except for mage. I would recommend to those interested in pally to ditch the heavy cards like Cornelius Roame and Varian, King of Stormwind. Games just never get that far. You're much better off with Mutanus and a very early board.
Also, viper just updated his decklist. Removing Kodo Mount for Voracious Reader. Having played aggro druid myself, I can confirm that that is the correct change because if druid isn't having a full board by turn 4 chances are good you've already lost. And the hand is mostly empty past turn 4 anyway.
This is the most combo focused (and the fastest combo) meta we've ever had in my memory. So unsurprisingly midrange and control aren't going to be good, which is a shame because that's usually where we see more diversity and interaction in the meta. Its all hyper aggro or combo now.
Isn't this reported as a bug? Apparently the cost reductions for cards costed more than 8 wouldn't be considered in the priest quest but anything below that will look at the cost reductions. Reddit reporting, so take that for what you will.
There's two main decks at the moment. One with and without auctioneer. You can view it in hsreplay (dont take the winrate at face value, its definitely better than it looks). The Persistent Peddler - Tuskpiercer combo was very unexpected, but will help a great deal in finishing the quest.
I made some adjustments of my own (like removing Glide because that's the very pinnacle of niche cards). We are in one of those very polarizing rock-paper-scissors meta right now, so make adjustments as you see fit.
In the current meta, its actually easier than I thought to complete it. Often enough you'll be done with kurtrus in your hand by around turn 6. First tier done by turn 2-3 most of the time.
Definitely this quest has exceeded nearly everyone's (and my own) expectations. But obviously the meta being what it is at the moment that's hardly surprising.
Not really. Questlock doesn't have the infinite board clears, and if you ooze their mithril rod its really too slow to stop all those minions on board. No doubt the current built is unpolished because mage is practically everywhere, but I wouldn't call questlock OP.
The real problem currently is mage. Interestingly, the current quest mage build actually has minions because everyone is simply not playing minions to stop mage from finishing the quest. You really can't play against mage with minions at all because they cycle so well, so efficiently, and has literally infinite damage. Every deck by default has to have Cult Neophyte or some burst option for the end game because the later you go the more impossible it is to stick minions.
Currently mage beats everything cleanly except for doomhammer shaman and quest druid. No elaborations required.
Yes its a spell and has always been a spell. If team5 were to rework it into something else, they'd need a very good reason to do so, like how hero cards are considered as neither spell nor minions. For now, its a spell because when quests were first made that was what it is.
Far as I know cost reduction should work with the quest. Remembered seeing it somewhere. But not having played one I can't say for sure. Unfortunately quest priest kinda sucks in standard so I didn't met many on the way myself.
The only two other examples I can think of thats damage done with the 'cast when drawn' mechanic, bombs and Iron Juggernauts burrowing mine, and those doesn't work with spell damage.
At least garrote may actually be a bug because the bleeds for some reason works with spell damage.
Wasnt this entirely because of hubris? I mean, trying to make a game within 3 months, paying 20mil (a very very large sum back then) for the licensing and then massive salaries to the developer. Once that flopped (I mean look at it, its shit so far up the dark end you'd need a astronomer's telescope to view its astounding shittiness) ATARI's fall was only inevitable.
It wasn't controversy or competition that doomed it, far as I know. Nintendo penetrated the western market after its fall.
I was wondering when someone would start a post like this.
Its the start of the expansion, and people are still playing around with quests because its the new thing in town. But like all things pretty and new its only a matter of time before no one gives a shit and starts playing to win.
Quest are currently viable because the meta is slow enough to allow it, thanks in no small part because everyone else is playing quest decks as well. You'll be lucky to see a minion drop before turn 3. Once everything is cleared up Im sure the meta would be more diverse than what it looks now.
In a separate note, is everyone sleeping on quest shaman? I havent seen a single hate directed at it so far, and after playing it for 3 hours I think its even more powerful than mage.
I still dont get why people even bother with the quest in mage. The deck has to run stuff like Cone of Cold, Flurry (Rank 1), and Ice Barriers. They're even dropping Font of Power and Devolving Missiles these days. Once the meta turns outside of quests and minions start dropping on curve I doubt quest mage will still be able to do the same without dying.
I'd much rather have a better chance at getting Incanter's Flow on 2 and just use the sheer power of cheap spells, Ignite, Fireball and Apexis Blast to win the game.
Its too early to call for nerfs. Everyone is playing either quest or trying to cheat a few wins with the old meta face hunter and elemental shaman. I'd say give it a couple of weeks, and it'll be clearer what should be on top and what needs a little trimming.
Probably still too early to call for nerfs, though Im very partial to seeing Incanter's Flow burning in hell.
Quest decks are slow and will get slower as they adapt their game towards faster decks. The only decks that currently have a near guaranteed win against a traditional control deck would be questlock, mage, and priest. Nearly everyone else runs out of stuff at some point.
Also, everyone is playing quest at the moment because its a shiny new toy. I'd imagine that in a week of two and we'll be seeing old midrange pally everywhere like we used to again. Then we can start dreaming of slower decks.
To be fair, that applies to just about all the quest that was introduced and obviously that's what everyone is playing at the moment. All the quest decks are practically single player; just complete the quest and load up the win condition. The only interactive part of it is that your opponent can screw you over by playing no minions, and even then its not a guarantee.
That's not to say that its a bad thing. Its good to have a variety of decks that isn't just loading up the board, but its quite another thing entirely when most of the games you're playing is basically just a single player fest. I can only hope that a week later the meta would form somewhat and we start seeing more board focused decks.
I loved lego myself when I was a kid. But bafflingly I always end up building according to script once before taking it all down and enjoying the true spirit of lego blocks - building your own shit from the top of your head. I remember building a model hand with movable parts way back then, no scripts.
And then computers came along, and suddenly lego seems a bit like a model toy: build it once, place into glass podium, and then never come back.