Does anyone know what these "Achievement Points" are good for? At first I thought I was getting XP for these, but then I noticed it was a separate thing.
You get xp for grinding the darkmoon achievements.
For the rest it goes to funding for an ever longer e-penis, as many would call it.
It might be more representative if you used 1,857.14 xp as a metric (7 dailies * 1000xp + 6000xp from weeklies / 7) instead of a raw 1000xp.
Until the numbers became clear to me a few days ago, I actually thought the additions of the weeklies were pretty neat. Seems like all they did was partition it from the old system's quest rewards. Oh well.
Well, we know option 1 is impossible. If I can come and go without losing any value, there's really just no longer any reason to really care or commit to hearthstone to any degree since it can be taken and dropped almost at whim. As such the playerbase numbers will fluctuate wildly, sometimes because the expansion is boring (like during the meta after Ungoro-Kobolds have rotated) or because blizz is being an arse (like the Blitzchung issue)
Changing dust value is perhaps the easiest option here, and I think it has been mooted when the survey was first leaked, since it was universally acknowledged then that such a system would have repercussions on the game's economy.
I personally think the best way is to incrementally reduce the cost of each expansion's dust crafting requirement, so a legendary from, say, AoO would be a lot cheaper than it would be during its cycle. Not only will it maintain the economy at an advantage to blizz during the expansion's cycle, it will still significantly make the game more approachable to new players, especially those wanting to have a go at wild.
Call me old fashioned but i think games shouldn't be skinner boxes, they should be fun to play and that's why people should keep playing them. If hearthstone gets a subscription based model it will do one thing. Make people take the game less seriously. If you think the current model that forces people to be good at arena, rush down ladder with the most cancerous aggro deck and spend tons of money. is the way to go for the game's future then i don't think i should be having this conversation. F2ps worry about this game like it's their rent and they just got fired from their job. Focusing every day on how much they get and wondering if it'll last the month. That shouldn't be in the game. if you're F2p it's play aggro or GTFO. Because you ain't crafting those 8 legendaries you need to play that control deck homie.
I used to be F2p for like 2 years (For the most part I still am, I only pay for the 20 bucks bundle occasionally, and I got the starter kit for 10 bucks), and I can't say I was anywhere near depraved enough as you described. I only started laddering seriously like 2 years back (ironically at a time when I have better cards), mostly spending my time in my f2p years finishing up quests and playing useless but fun decks.
Not everyone plays aggro decks because they are the fastest way to make a buck. I still regularly see face hunter right now, even when it should be theoretically no longer as rewarding as it once was under this bs system. Aggro decks are quick, easy to play, and in many ways interactive for the player who plays it (despite being cancerous to the other side). If fun is the reason why people play hearthstone, then its easy enough to describe playing aggro decks as fun for some, not for others.
Ranked will always be serious. Its inevitable since winning is for the most part fun. If the best deck is a control/midrange deck then everyone will play nothing but control/midrange (During the last phase of AoO, galakrond rogue and highlander mage were practically everywhere). No amount of rewards will ever change that.
Well, we know option 1 is impossible. If I can come and go without losing any value, there's really just no longer any reason to really care or commit to hearthstone to any degree since it can be taken and dropped almost at whim. As such the playerbase numbers will fluctuate wildly, sometimes because the expansion is boring (like during the meta after Ungoro-Kobolds have rotated) or because blizz is being an arse (like the Blitzchung issue)
Changing dust value is perhaps the easiest option here, and I think it has been mooted when the survey was first leaked, since it was universally acknowledged then that such a system would have repercussions on the game's economy.
I personally think the best way is to incrementally reduce the cost of each expansion's dust crafting requirement, so a legendary from, say, AoO would be a lot cheaper than it would be during its cycle. Not only will it maintain the economy at an advantage to blizz during the expansion's cycle, it will still significantly make the game more approachable to new players, especially those wanting to have a go at wild.
Its still too soon to see if they would double down on this. I'm fairly certainly they will eventually tweak the rewards, maybe before the release of Darkmoon, or somewhere around 2 weeks to a month.
I highly doubt that Blizzard would try to change the new system that they just released. The earliest time they would probably change the system is probably the next expansion after Darkmoon Faire, and I think that by itself is already an optimistic prediction. They took a while to implement the tavern pass system in the first place and if they are probably going to change it drastically, it's probably going to take a lot of effort and that's something they probably don't have anymore.
Probably not. Its all speculation obviously, but one good thing from this entire bs of a system is that its easily tweaked, from simply granting more xp on games to increasing the gold gained, maybe from 100 to 150.
Given all the fire and brimstone hanging around, if they still hope to sell even a small bundle out without causing a major backlash, then a quick fix would seem the sensible solution.
Its still too soon to see if they would double down on this. I'm fairly certainly they will eventually tweak the rewards, maybe before the release of Darkmoon, or somewhere around 2 weeks to a month.
Its obvious right now that nearly every player is hating it and if they don't resolve this shit then its likely that all future events would be drown out by this particular period of history.
Not that I subscribe to the conspiracy theory of where corporate pushes unacceptable bs now and then later hailed as heroes for fixing the mess they started in the first place, but if they do fix this system, that would be a good start to reset relations.
Before I start, I'm going to make it clear that I'm not for or against the new system because I don't know how my net gold or rewards will look at the end of this expansion cycle.
- I am currently level 18 (with the XP boost from purchasing) while only playing ~1-2 hours a day so that means, according to this table found here, that I have earned at least 23,400 experience in three days by doing dailies, weeklies, and random achievement bonuses. That being said, an expansion cycle is (typically) 4 months/~120 days. So if we do the math; 23,400 divided by 3 is 7,800. Now multiply that by 120 and we get 936,000, which according to the graph table listed above puts me at maxing out the rewards track. If my math is wrong please correct me, and I'm not making a case for the rewards track, I'm just putting out what I (super capitalized) have gotten to and what I might get to by the end of this cycle.
When the new track was released they filled out our quest bar with 3 normal quests and 3 weeklies (I think that includes the duels quest which awards scholomance packs). So technically you're counting the xp gained in the last 3 days using a metric where you've fully completed 5 dailies and 3 weeklies. Wouldn't be representative
Disclude the achievements xp. Its one time only and its a pain in the arse to complete. I wouldn't use it as a metric anyway.
To properly calculate it, just imagine a week's worth of quest plus a decent amount of playtime xp. The math is readily available in reddit if you're interested. Just add in your 10% boost.
Its not possible to max out without playing at least 5 hours a day. Even with the boost I'm sure its impossible to achieve without committing like full time to it.
Well, you could go to school/office on the off chance someone there plays hearthstone as well and rub it in his face on how much more achievement points you have compared to him.
The new progression system has a few problems, aside from it being generally shit, and my experience with it was thus;
- Like all of you guys, I've grinded up the quests, especially the weeklies, just so I don't lose value. I'm around level 14 now in case you're wondering, and its been a little of a drag I have to say. You get like a huge influx of stuff within the first few hours then it all trickles down to an eyedropper before you start realising that even after 2 hours of gameplay you're essentially getting nothing. And we're only just getting started. It shudders me to think that at around level 45 - 50 the requirements are tens of thousands xp just to raise the level by 1. How many weeks are we to starve in between leveling up.
- This one is purely just a feel, but I think its significant. Since you don't get that 10g every 3 wins (you don't even get to see how much xp you're earning per match) every match seems unrewarding bar the game itself. So you can be on a 7 game streak but with no interface telling you your progression, it feels like its all for nothing.
- The xp gained for winning is actually higher compared to losing. That's clear enough. But you'd still get something for losing. I know team5 have been concerned over this part, but wouldn't some hacker just create a bot and let it queue a few million games roping the shit off your opponents and farming xp that way? I guess its inevitable anyway, but pretty soon a cap per day will be implemented to stop this abuse, but it seems like there's no real way of tackling farming via bots.
- Yes I agree that the achievement is a joke of a concept, even worst still that they added it in to their estimates on total rewards earned per expansion. Let's be honest here. The achievements are walled by specific cards, usually requiring at least one legendary (specifically) per class, so if you opened up Zai, the Incredible instead of Il'gynoth, well, you're fresh out of luck.
Most of us will hardly get near even half of all the legendaries by the end of the expansion, and now we're supposed to think that its our own fault for not pursuing this rubbish of a system. In what world will I willingly craft Oh My Yogg! or even Darkmoon Rabbit is beyond me.
Just one last note;
Anyone had the unfortunate experience of not finishing up their weekly quests? I really would like to know if you still get 3 of them at the start of the week, or if its just 1750xp wasted.
Is there any legit way of restarting anyway? Played like 9 matches last week but couldn't find that retire button anywhere. Seems like once you're locked in, you can't just get out like you can in arena.
I can empathize with your opening and honestly its making me sweat as well. My AoO day one pack openings was probably my worst ever in near 4 years of playing, and its genuinely scaring me, since I'll be opening less packs this time round, no thanks to the earlier release for this expansion.
On my wishlist is at least 2 out of 4 of the old gods (Yshaarj and Cthun preferably), G'hunn, Tenwu, Inara, and Whatley.
So obviously I would end up getting none of it. Cheers, rng gods.
All those can be easily done with Cult Neophyte at the right moment, a solid 3/2 body to boot with absolutely no way of backfiring. Disrupting priest may be a little difficult since the current iteration plays like 4 spell generators, easily more than that in practice, and priest plays quite a number of 1 mana spells.
I get that the achievements coming in and out is rather annoying, but even if it preempts you on your pack opening does it really matter since you'll be getting that legendary anyway? Its not like its taking it away from you.
But I won't lie, I'm getting tired of being reminded that Ive 'set the standard' for the umpteen time. Perhaps the devs will include something to turn off the bloody alerts.
I wonder if using the characters Yrel and Lothraxion here would mean that we wouldn't see anything related to the burning legion in later expansions. Both are rather big characters that can hold up entirely on their own, so its curious that we see them together in one expansion.
Its still there. Im not sure if you're playing on mobile, but on pc it's the last button when you press the journal on the front screen (that icon that looks like a purple quill pen). Displays all your stats, arena, ranked, bg, duels
Have a look at the full list. I'll cherry pick a few, but outside of more specific demands like play 20 murlocs, you'll find that finishing the 'harder' quests to be either equal or only minutely inconvenient to the 'easier' quest.
Use your hero power 20 times - 800 xp
Win 2 games - 800 xp
Play 10 odd costed cards - 1000xp
Play 3 games of (3 different classes) - 1000xp
That's beside the point here. The rule where you reroll your 1000xp quest will always result in a 800xp quest still applies I think, but the reverse is not true. If they were being sincere about presenting a choice of difficulty then it should be theoretically impossible for me to reroll a 800xp quest to another 800xp quest.
Also, let's point out that the demands of 1000xp quests is 'play' not 'win'. In many cases, you'd only need about half an ounce of effort to finish up any of these so called difficult quests. Even the play 20 murlocs quest, which is about as egregious as it can get, is only a mild annoyance, certainly nowhere near the theoretical 30 minutes it will take for me to earn that 200xp difference.
Its always going to some sort of balance when it comes to profits vs the consumer. As much as corporate wants more money, the consumer will likely want to pay less, or get more for the same. Far as I am concerned, the consumer should plays its part by ensuring that corporate won't get away easily with any excesses, and corporate will play its part by being as greedy as it can be without pissing anyone off. That I think we can put a full stop on and move on.
On the second part of your remark, I have to admit I can't find anything to argue here. I suppose you're responding to my remarks regarding how the idea of 'enjoying a game for years' can be applied to any game not just HS. Its still true even with your remarks applied because the qualitative factor is subjective. Its still applicable and true to say I enjoyed my cinema session more despite having only spent 2 hours and 10 bucks in it, as compared to HS where I've spent near 500 bucks but 1000 hours on it. So its possible to compare my HS experience with my cinema experience on the sole factor which is the quality of my enjoyment. But that's beside the point. What I was trying to say is despite my subjective experiences, I still ended up paying 500 bucks compared to 10 for the cinema, and here's blizz with their new neat idea which I feel disadvantaged me in a way, and I'm pushing back on it.
The fact of the matter is I shouldn't be doing any soul-searching of any sort because I love HS, but recent changes have made it difficult to continue in the same manner. Should we initiate a divorce simply because of one disagreement? Its not a matter of opportunity costs; some of us are also partially emotionally invested into it. If the other party is being unreasonable, we push back for some compromise, not do 'soul searching' as one treats the other like a commodity.
I'm surprised at the positive marks given for Idol of Y'Shaarj. Are we forgetting that it also costs 8 mana? You can highroll into Blood of G'huun, but that card costs 9 mana, so in effect you're playing a very expensive priest deck and hoping not to die.
There's a good reason why rez priest hasnt been seeing lots of play in standard. It gets bodied by nearly every deck around and the proliferation of transform effects from shaman and mage just destroys the deck entirely. I doubt it will make any return in the upcoming meta.
Without a doubt, Insight is the best card here. Ghuun a not so far second.
The menu system for achievements is, to put it mildly, like trying to navigate through the 4 digestive systems of a cow. I didn't mention this because I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and its no doubt something they would fix in time. I wouldn't attribute anything malicious to it.
That said, it is very much sprawling all over the place, and the fact that I have to click on every one of them to get the rewards is a little more than tilting.
They could also just display the amount of xp I gained from each game, instead of having me having to find out myself. But I think stuff like these will be fixed in time.
You get xp for grinding the darkmoon achievements.
For the rest it goes to funding for an ever longer e-penis, as many would call it.
It might be more representative if you used 1,857.14 xp as a metric (7 dailies * 1000xp + 6000xp from weeklies / 7) instead of a raw 1000xp.
Until the numbers became clear to me a few days ago, I actually thought the additions of the weeklies were pretty neat. Seems like all they did was partition it from the old system's quest rewards. Oh well.
I used to be F2p for like 2 years (For the most part I still am, I only pay for the 20 bucks bundle occasionally, and I got the starter kit for 10 bucks), and I can't say I was anywhere near depraved enough as you described. I only started laddering seriously like 2 years back (ironically at a time when I have better cards), mostly spending my time in my f2p years finishing up quests and playing useless but fun decks.
Not everyone plays aggro decks because they are the fastest way to make a buck. I still regularly see face hunter right now, even when it should be theoretically no longer as rewarding as it once was under this bs system. Aggro decks are quick, easy to play, and in many ways interactive for the player who plays it (despite being cancerous to the other side). If fun is the reason why people play hearthstone, then its easy enough to describe playing aggro decks as fun for some, not for others.
Ranked will always be serious. Its inevitable since winning is for the most part fun. If the best deck is a control/midrange deck then everyone will play nothing but control/midrange (During the last phase of AoO, galakrond rogue and highlander mage were practically everywhere). No amount of rewards will ever change that.
Well, we know option 1 is impossible. If I can come and go without losing any value, there's really just no longer any reason to really care or commit to hearthstone to any degree since it can be taken and dropped almost at whim. As such the playerbase numbers will fluctuate wildly, sometimes because the expansion is boring (like during the meta after Ungoro-Kobolds have rotated) or because blizz is being an arse (like the Blitzchung issue)
Changing dust value is perhaps the easiest option here, and I think it has been mooted when the survey was first leaked, since it was universally acknowledged then that such a system would have repercussions on the game's economy.
I personally think the best way is to incrementally reduce the cost of each expansion's dust crafting requirement, so a legendary from, say, AoO would be a lot cheaper than it would be during its cycle. Not only will it maintain the economy at an advantage to blizz during the expansion's cycle, it will still significantly make the game more approachable to new players, especially those wanting to have a go at wild.
Probably not. Its all speculation obviously, but one good thing from this entire bs of a system is that its easily tweaked, from simply granting more xp on games to increasing the gold gained, maybe from 100 to 150.
Given all the fire and brimstone hanging around, if they still hope to sell even a small bundle out without causing a major backlash, then a quick fix would seem the sensible solution.
Its still too soon to see if they would double down on this. I'm fairly certainly they will eventually tweak the rewards, maybe before the release of Darkmoon, or somewhere around 2 weeks to a month.
Its obvious right now that nearly every player is hating it and if they don't resolve this shit then its likely that all future events would be drown out by this particular period of history.
Not that I subscribe to the conspiracy theory of where corporate pushes unacceptable bs now and then later hailed as heroes for fixing the mess they started in the first place, but if they do fix this system, that would be a good start to reset relations.
When the new track was released they filled out our quest bar with 3 normal quests and 3 weeklies (I think that includes the duels quest which awards scholomance packs). So technically you're counting the xp gained in the last 3 days using a metric where you've fully completed 5 dailies and 3 weeklies. Wouldn't be representative
Disclude the achievements xp. Its one time only and its a pain in the arse to complete. I wouldn't use it as a metric anyway.
To properly calculate it, just imagine a week's worth of quest plus a decent amount of playtime xp. The math is readily available in reddit if you're interested. Just add in your 10% boost.
Its not possible to max out without playing at least 5 hours a day. Even with the boost I'm sure its impossible to achieve without committing like full time to it.
Well, you could go to school/office on the off chance someone there plays hearthstone as well and rub it in his face on how much more achievement points you have compared to him.
Yeah, I noticed some of my progress bar going up even without having played the class.
A small consolation because damned if I was going to give up an arm or a leg to finish any of these.
The new progression system has a few problems, aside from it being generally shit, and my experience with it was thus;
- Like all of you guys, I've grinded up the quests, especially the weeklies, just so I don't lose value. I'm around level 14 now in case you're wondering, and its been a little of a drag I have to say. You get like a huge influx of stuff within the first few hours then it all trickles down to an eyedropper before you start realising that even after 2 hours of gameplay you're essentially getting nothing. And we're only just getting started. It shudders me to think that at around level 45 - 50 the requirements are tens of thousands xp just to raise the level by 1. How many weeks are we to starve in between leveling up.
- This one is purely just a feel, but I think its significant. Since you don't get that 10g every 3 wins (you don't even get to see how much xp you're earning per match) every match seems unrewarding bar the game itself. So you can be on a 7 game streak but with no interface telling you your progression, it feels like its all for nothing.
- The xp gained for winning is actually higher compared to losing. That's clear enough. But you'd still get something for losing. I know team5 have been concerned over this part, but wouldn't some hacker just create a bot and let it queue a few million games roping the shit off your opponents and farming xp that way? I guess its inevitable anyway, but pretty soon a cap per day will be implemented to stop this abuse, but it seems like there's no real way of tackling farming via bots.
- Yes I agree that the achievement is a joke of a concept, even worst still that they added it in to their estimates on total rewards earned per expansion. Let's be honest here. The achievements are walled by specific cards, usually requiring at least one legendary (specifically) per class, so if you opened up Zai, the Incredible instead of Il'gynoth, well, you're fresh out of luck.
Most of us will hardly get near even half of all the legendaries by the end of the expansion, and now we're supposed to think that its our own fault for not pursuing this rubbish of a system. In what world will I willingly craft Oh My Yogg! or even Darkmoon Rabbit is beyond me.
Just one last note;
Anyone had the unfortunate experience of not finishing up their weekly quests? I really would like to know if you still get 3 of them at the start of the week, or if its just 1750xp wasted.
Is there any legit way of restarting anyway? Played like 9 matches last week but couldn't find that retire button anywhere. Seems like once you're locked in, you can't just get out like you can in arena.
I can empathize with your opening and honestly its making me sweat as well. My AoO day one pack openings was probably my worst ever in near 4 years of playing, and its genuinely scaring me, since I'll be opening less packs this time round, no thanks to the earlier release for this expansion.
On my wishlist is at least 2 out of 4 of the old gods (Yshaarj and Cthun preferably), G'hunn, Tenwu, Inara, and Whatley.
So obviously I would end up getting none of it. Cheers, rng gods.
All those can be easily done with Cult Neophyte at the right moment, a solid 3/2 body to boot with absolutely no way of backfiring. Disrupting priest may be a little difficult since the current iteration plays like 4 spell generators, easily more than that in practice, and priest plays quite a number of 1 mana spells.
I get that the achievements coming in and out is rather annoying, but even if it preempts you on your pack opening does it really matter since you'll be getting that legendary anyway? Its not like its taking it away from you.
But I won't lie, I'm getting tired of being reminded that Ive 'set the standard' for the umpteen time. Perhaps the devs will include something to turn off the bloody alerts.
I wonder if using the characters Yrel and Lothraxion here would mean that we wouldn't see anything related to the burning legion in later expansions. Both are rather big characters that can hold up entirely on their own, so its curious that we see them together in one expansion.
Its still there. Im not sure if you're playing on mobile, but on pc it's the last button when you press the journal on the front screen (that icon that looks like a purple quill pen). Displays all your stats, arena, ranked, bg, duels
Have a look at the full list. I'll cherry pick a few, but outside of more specific demands like play 20 murlocs, you'll find that finishing the 'harder' quests to be either equal or only minutely inconvenient to the 'easier' quest.
Use your hero power 20 times - 800 xp
Win 2 games - 800 xp
Play 10 odd costed cards - 1000xp
Play 3 games of (3 different classes) - 1000xp
That's beside the point here. The rule where you reroll your 1000xp quest will always result in a 800xp quest still applies I think, but the reverse is not true. If they were being sincere about presenting a choice of difficulty then it should be theoretically impossible for me to reroll a 800xp quest to another 800xp quest.
Also, let's point out that the demands of 1000xp quests is 'play' not 'win'. In many cases, you'd only need about half an ounce of effort to finish up any of these so called difficult quests. Even the play 20 murlocs quest, which is about as egregious as it can get, is only a mild annoyance, certainly nowhere near the theoretical 30 minutes it will take for me to earn that 200xp difference.
Its always going to some sort of balance when it comes to profits vs the consumer. As much as corporate wants more money, the consumer will likely want to pay less, or get more for the same. Far as I am concerned, the consumer should plays its part by ensuring that corporate won't get away easily with any excesses, and corporate will play its part by being as greedy as it can be without pissing anyone off. That I think we can put a full stop on and move on.
On the second part of your remark, I have to admit I can't find anything to argue here. I suppose you're responding to my remarks regarding how the idea of 'enjoying a game for years' can be applied to any game not just HS. Its still true even with your remarks applied because the qualitative factor is subjective. Its still applicable and true to say I enjoyed my cinema session more despite having only spent 2 hours and 10 bucks in it, as compared to HS where I've spent near 500 bucks but 1000 hours on it. So its possible to compare my HS experience with my cinema experience on the sole factor which is the quality of my enjoyment. But that's beside the point. What I was trying to say is despite my subjective experiences, I still ended up paying 500 bucks compared to 10 for the cinema, and here's blizz with their new neat idea which I feel disadvantaged me in a way, and I'm pushing back on it.
The fact of the matter is I shouldn't be doing any soul-searching of any sort because I love HS, but recent changes have made it difficult to continue in the same manner. Should we initiate a divorce simply because of one disagreement? Its not a matter of opportunity costs; some of us are also partially emotionally invested into it. If the other party is being unreasonable, we push back for some compromise, not do 'soul searching' as one treats the other like a commodity.
I'm surprised at the positive marks given for Idol of Y'Shaarj. Are we forgetting that it also costs 8 mana? You can highroll into Blood of G'huun, but that card costs 9 mana, so in effect you're playing a very expensive priest deck and hoping not to die.
There's a good reason why rez priest hasnt been seeing lots of play in standard. It gets bodied by nearly every deck around and the proliferation of transform effects from shaman and mage just destroys the deck entirely. I doubt it will make any return in the upcoming meta.
Without a doubt, Insight is the best card here. Ghuun a not so far second.
The menu system for achievements is, to put it mildly, like trying to navigate through the 4 digestive systems of a cow. I didn't mention this because I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and its no doubt something they would fix in time. I wouldn't attribute anything malicious to it.
That said, it is very much sprawling all over the place, and the fact that I have to click on every one of them to get the rewards is a little more than tilting.
They could also just display the amount of xp I gained from each game, instead of having me having to find out myself. But I think stuff like these will be fixed in time.