Yeeeeeep ^

I guess...like getting to masters is a brutally difficult grind. Getting to diamond is easy breezy do it on your phone in your spare time.

For me the issue is simple I want to play Heimer, and Riven, and Taric and Lux, and Yassao, and all these slow value Champs and you just can't right now and that's not fun as a deck builder.

I dont know too much about hearthstone these days I haven't played since a few years after it was released.

But in mtg toxic metas, and worse poorly balanced sets or mechanics have absolutely led to less streamer representation, and player migration.

Mogwai the new poster boy for Riot played arena exclusively till he couldn't put up with Oko the broko any longer.

And that's where I come from as well

Balance matters, and it will affect the long term health of your game.

Even if you don't see a decrease in your bottom line because whales will always whale.

Sentiment and player feedback is important.

Thanks for the matchup tables I know Azir Irelia looses to aggro. That's why my overwhelm brew did so well against them and got me to diamond. 

But the thing is what if you dont want to play aggro anymore?

What if you want to experience the rest of the games champion selection?

Then you're basically saying okay I am going to loose 70% of the time 1/5 matches.

So you essentially can't climb effectively.

That is the definition of a unhealthy and oppressive meta deck

So I'm probably gonna do what every content creator has done and stop playing this game till it gets "fun" I have no interest in lab. So no more new decks, no more ladders for at least 3 weeks till I start seeing some possitive changes in the turbo meta.

Well said I like this comment ^

Yikes 3 weeks on top of all the time we've waited is really problematic though.

I hope they learn some lessons from this and streamline their interior card change pipeline.

@helicopter yes I know Azir Irelia is beatable especially at lower ranks I fed off them to reach diamond with my own brews. But once you get to those higher levels and they tighten up their plays it gets roughly a million times more consistent.

Hence the 60% winrate on mobalytics right now. It's gonna get nerfed hard I just want it done sooner rather than later.

As for Thesh Nasus it's arguable the most linear and beatable deck on the tier list, with Draven Ezreal being probably one of the hardest to contend with.

Dragons I rate as incredible match up dependent as a midrange list. Asol will mess you up late game, but they aren't actually very good at controlling the opponent out when all they have is strikes and challenges.

Lisandra trundle I'm gonna rate S for stupid it's literally just if you don't win the game by mana 8 I win the deck.

I'm expecting patch notes, and a hotfix. Like it's a digital card game. Doesn't take two weeks to implement what should be a relatively straight forward change. Nevermind a month.

As for the actual design overhauls or buffs to lesser known archetypes sure take all the time you need. But what players need is an emergency hotfix.

---Fyi----

Irelia Azir was buffed at the same time as being nerfed because Irelia summons blade burst on level up now.

Thats why we haven't seen the decks win rate go down even an inch.

It feels like we've been dealing with this turbo meta for over a month.

Its literally just Irelia Azir every match with its 60% winrate that should of been seen a mile away with internal play testing.

Or at the very least addressed with the last patch. I can't describe the number of decks it shuts down.

Want to meme with Heimer nope, Karma nope, Taric nope, Anivia nope, Riven nope, Yassao nope

They must realize people aren't actually "playing" the game right now

They are playing roughly 2% of the game 

I think saying.that people will always play the meta is a derivative excuse, yes people will but how free players are to ladder with alternatives is entirely up to the devs.

Riot seriously fix your game...

Control a big hearthstone player used to run temo sej a lot but that was pre turbo meta. Not sure how it holds up now. God I miss fun decks.

Legends of Runterra has changed from a game about spells, strategic passing, and removal to essentially a tempo struggle.

Every hand you play needs to be about hitting the board as fast and hard as possible with as much tempo as possible regardless of the deck you are playing. 

The one exception being Lissandra who tempos out an otk strategy in later turns

There isn't a single top tier deck that doesn't have an early board flood strategy.

Thresh nasus, will usually hit a full board by turn 3 every single time and so you need to mull for your board flood hand to compensate everytime. 

Then you need a way to end the game quickly whether it be a big overwhelm dude or an atrocity or in the case of Azir multiple attack phases.

It just gets a little tiring seeing every game play out as aggressively as humanly possible and only once you pass that gauntlet can you actually "play the game"

I dont know how you actually fix this, it seems to me that Riot needs to start releasing strong and cheap removal options to compensate.

Let me know what you guys think, or should legends always just be a aggro tempo creature swing fest?

Yeah there's a lot of lissandra at diamond. Honestly, I'm just meeming now and waiting for the game to get fixed. Like I was trying to play some lux or Karma only to realize only 1/5 of the card pool is playable in the turbo meta.

Hey while I wait for the promised changes on reddit to happen, and for ladder to reset so I can climb to diamond again in a fresh meta let's talk about climbing theory.

My theory is pretty simple there are two ways to climb in digital ccgs:

1. Play the best decks better than everyone else whether it's thresh/Nasis or Arelia Azir or dragons or whatever works for you

- how do you play your deck better then everyone else? You dont just play your deck you play the opponents.

- here's an example my rogue overwhelm brew relies on two things high burst dmg, and lots and lots of vulnerable plays

- if you as Azir/Irelia always leave mana open for bounce when I have the attack token you can't loose valuable pieces to vulnerable plays

2. Build a deck that performs well in a certain meta, this sounds obvious but its also built on wrong assumptions.

- Doing well in a meta isn't about countering what is top tier that by definition is impossible

- It's about establishing unpredictable play patterns, and teching in unexpected options

- for example overwhelm decks don't run counters but when one of the best decks revolves around atrocity as a win con it is now one of your best cards because the opponent will assume you don't have it

And thats it really if you want to climb in legends or mtg arena or whatever digital ccg you want, you'll have to get good at one of these two methods. 

If you're creative and easily bored from repetition like me I would choose to master option 2. If you're detailed oriented and highly competitive I would choose option 1.

Let me know which you gravitate towards.

I was saying it was knee jerk by the devs. They essentially heard from.the community that their mentality was wrong and they were like oh no totally we're gonna go back to changing old card designs to diversify gameplay.

- meanwhile back at hq they are probably scrambling to figure out what this new approach is even gonna look like

It was just a knee jerk reaction though. They didn't have it on the road map so that means we've got a long wait ahead of us till the game is playable again.

So Azor Irelia is still just as strong and exhausting to play against non stop.

The watcher remains unchanged so if you're running any other control deck with a slow game plan and you que into them you might as well concede.

Cards buffs haven't happened to weaker archetypes to freshen up the game.

There's all this great stuff and amazing potential in Legends that is being held down by a laze Faire card balance approach.

So now after waiting so long for this patch that did nothing we have to wait another month to hopefully see the good stuff.

Is anyone getting a little annoyed at this point?

I would say that I hate the grind but I love the feeling of stumbling onto something that beats everything else people are playing.

So if that means I can for example jam through gold while sitting outside in the sun on my phone thats a chill experience.

But if I ever have to do the 54% winrate thing where you have to play 100 games to make progress I just can't do that.

I was the same way in mtg arena when I climbed to diamond using a rebel burn list, and a super friends fires of invention list.

In shadowverse I would use a behamut dirt list its just fun being unique and finding tech that works and is different.

Yeah I had heard that they got destroyed on redit and responded with a oh no wait we're totally gonna do what we did before soon.

So yeah, when ignoring the community doesn't work the next logical step is to put your arrogance aside as a game dev and listen.

Its is relavent because there are "gate keepers" at the beginning of silver.

This is a phenomenon in all card games where experienced players troll lower ranks with meta decks.

And I always like players who share newer lists regardless of experience levels

For sure. There were definately a lot of comprehensive changes that could of been made and weren't.

Particularly absent is the lack of any relavent or exciting buffs to the weaker archetypes introduced in the expansion.

It seems like the philosophy now is let's release more new cards to fix things instead of buffing pre-existing non Champs