There's a pretty strong consensus that predict sucks as a mechanic, and a deck type.
This is half right, predict doesn't function well as a self contained wincon by itself, so I'm gonna share some lists that nobody is talking about that will win games with these Champs.
Ash is very strong right now, and Zillian is essentially a self contained leveler that with enough turns is guaranteed to hit a sufficient number of bombs, or will after being replayed.
Ashkan Ekko
A Runeterra Deck created by
Nifty129. Last updated 3 years, 2 months ago
Ekko can absolutely join thr burst meta by becoming a part of it with the likes of shaped stone and absolver which pairs nicely with those 12/12 kaherees you'll be throwing down.
For vanilla Zillian Ekko I highly recommend the professor to turn all your one drops into 4/4's at burst speed. It's pretty much the only reason to be running cards like drop boarder.
I've even experimented using ekko outside of shurima and it tends to pair best with Ionia. Hell karma ez is already running a lot of the best predict cards and its pretty obvious why.
You should share that Soraka list, I was struggling to find a cool home for her. Yes Sejuani is still good, she might be the rare champ where her play effect is more important then her level up.
So just gonna go through what I feel are the worst champions during the burst meta and you'll notice a trend pretty quickly where if they need to interact with other cards during combat to get value they tend to be pretty bad.
Champs that suck:
1. Vlad, my poor boy I love him greatly but man does he suck right now, and not in the way he's supposed to. Honestly they would need to bolster her drain to 2 per unit to make the endgame wincon of his deck easier.
2. Garen, being a vanilla 5/5 for 5 just isn't enough anymore while his level up is still powerful, leveling outside of concerted strike is near impossible. He probably needs tuff
3. Fiora, not seeing a lot of this lady around lately, because she's kind of a lot worse then the quick attack sticks being used for burst spells right now.
4. Braum, surviving strikes is just harder then it's ever been right now, honestly even just giving him 1 attack would help with trades
5. Victor, really slow and clunky to get rolling, and if your opponent somehow doesn't have a frostbite, a stun, a bounce, or silence on swing its a miracle.
6. Heimer, spawning a bunch of tokens really doesn't do what it used to anymore. Most decks can flood the board and require a lot less setup to pull off.
7. Kindred, he needs to kill strongest and he needs to be a 5/5 not much else to say
8. Yassao, so in the burst meta it's never been easier to make something survive 2 dmg and the good stun card (palm) is just run without him
9. Anivia, once again gains value on swing and thats increasingly hard to guarantee
10. Malphite, honestly the prince of Persia is soooo string that he almost makes Malphite pointless in his own deck. He also should work well with yassao but is too expensive at 7 mana. I'd say just hit his stats hard and drop him to 6 mana he won't be op
Champs that are better then people think:
1. Aphelios, apehlios tri beam is solid if you get the build right, also the fact that you can crescendo into the 2 mana dork and essentially make that spell cost 1 as you go for calibrum is solid
2. Jarven, total Chad probably my favorite champ in the game, can easily be run outside of Shen in fact shen doesn't really so much for him per say.
3. Ash, is a champ that gains value from burst speed interaction, and in the burst meta she's probably never been better.
4. Dragon girl, really good at surviving combat compared to every other demacia champ, while it's true she "gains value" on strike, you can force interaction post attack easily enough.
5. Kalista, fearsome aggro if built properly isn't bad and is better then people think at punishing burst meta decks.
6. Zillian/clock boy, don't run the mobalitics list it sucks. I have built a lot of brews that I feel are vastly superior to the 40% winrate mobalytics list, simple by understanding that these Champs need support/alt wincons
7. Thaliyah, plays really well in the burst meta where you can give her overwhelm, and have acess to hush to stop your opponent from making similar plays.
8. Lux, rated the worst champion in the game by Swim, she's not that bad, based entirely on her own merits she is but thankfully her dedicated supports cards are very strong. Like free detains are same as vengeance in this meta.
9. Vi, it used to be that it made no sense to have a 10 attack challenger because there were no high value trades to make her worth while. But thanks to all these she who wonders Champs running around vi has probably never had better targets
10. Swain, honestly just a really flexible champ that's always gonna have a home, and always be a threat.
11. Temo/fizz/star girl cheap elusive have never been better when decks are increasingly cutting pings like vile feast. You can use them for value, or for cheap burst sticks.
12. Lulu & Shen these support Champs are probably underrated right now, while I would say that Taric is the worst of the bunch he's still very playable too.
Champs that are average
Tf feels pretty meh right now, I was just saying that 1 mana pings, and a 2 mana stun has never been worse then in this meta but amazingly just on the merit of blue card and tf chaining he can still be alright
Lisandra, none of her decks are scary right now, she looses to aggro and to combo but thats 90% of the meta right now. In a control mirror, or midrange meta she still gets to do her thing
Sejuani, is kind of being cut from all her decks, the good news is her champ spell is quite strong, she still acts as removal, and sometimes can really mess up the opponents play patterns
Champs that require 0.1% of your brain
All cheap quick attackers right now are insanely powerful. Just look at the massive deck presence of zed, sivir, prince boy, Draven, and even jinx still puts up good numbers.
As far as I can tell this doesn't seem to be a thing. I've made opponents using the infinite combo deck go through the motions of winning just to see if there was a limit
We also have Fizz Draven , and Temo Zed. Now you havent heard of these decks, want to know why? Because frankly every deck that uses their champions as burst speed non interaction sticks play the same and are built the same.
The exception being Lee Sin because that deck actually is fairly balanced due to its longer game plan.
Board presence implies having multiple units on board. As just stated the majority of the top tier decks go all in on one champ, usually a cheap one with quick attack.
Yes some decks continue to do well playing aggro, usually revolving around burn or extra attack phases.
These decks are "fine" nobody complains that they go for a mystic shot and get noxious fevered. It's far worse when your opponent plays a 3 mana champ and depending on your region you know that he will essentially never be removed, and will threaten insane burst damage and might even have extra attacks.
Its way toooo swingy the ideal game of legends of runeterra should be decided by mana 5 not mana 3.
If you run a deck with 3 mystic shots what are your chances of having more then one in your opening hand?
How likely is it to have more then one combat trick in hand when you run 10 of them or more?
Therefore unless you have flock the only piece.of removal that combos with your other removal attempts you will always loose 9/10 games when this line of play occurs.
Pass pass, Zed
Pass Pass, Darius
Pass, Pass, thing, sivir, ruin runner
And the reason is that no matter what you play your removal attempts will be answered by the increasing number of cheap, efficient, and powerful burst spells being printed.
So what happens? Decks just start cutting removal entirely unless it's something like grappling hook, or whirling death, or single combat.
Like I think the devs need to understand one simple thing, for every combat trick printed there must be an equal and opposite piece of removal printed.
Otherwise it's just gonna be, play 1 thing, keep that thing alive when played, burst the opponent down to 0 after two swings...yaaah fun.
There are so many cool decks in this game, so many cool mechanics, so much intricacy and champions and deck building options
All to be boiled down to Pass Pass thing, combo out burst...why even design good cards when they will never succeed in that combat trick heavy environment?
Roughly 5 of the top decks on Swims site have 10 burst spells on average, meaning they consist of 25% of each of those decks.
You jam them on a quick attack unit, Zed, Sivir, Darius and then you just win games.
Its basically auto build decks, with auto play win cons that don't require sequencing or turn priority.
I had said that this was going to happen and we are very much seeing this all over ladder.
Like you could play Lee Sin which costs 5 mana and requires set up, and stuns, and delaying the opponent, or you can just accomplish the same thing faster and with less skill.
Burst tricks are becoming too powerful, too numerous, too cheap, and too brain dead.
I dont know what the solution is, I had guessed that it was mana reductions for removal but it might just be nerfs to burst spells.
Yeah well right now control gets slaughtered by everything unless they are in noxious for flock, as it's the best removal in the game and the only one that's remained competitive with combat tricks.
Yeah it really depends on your philosophy, Zillian, Malphite, and Thaliyah are amazingly well designed cards, and I'll throw Eko in there...but yes they are bad.
The most optimized Eko list has a 40% winrate when piloted by the best players.
But is the solution for releasing a new champions just to make it universally good at everything so it does see play?
Seems like Riot was maybe getting frustrated and thought it better just to overtune and nerf later.
Very seldom have we seen a situation where a champion can essentially be jammed into a variety of lists and have them be statistically competitive if not amazing.
Right now on mobalytics you'll see 4 different lists of similar viability
- shadow demacia
- shadow Ionia
- shadow freijord
- momo shadow
All of which perform essentially the same, suggesting that A Viego is so strong that he doesn't need much deck support B he is so strong his support cards don't matter.
Just 3 drop plus hydra, plus glimpse, and away we go.
I really like the idea that legends is a game where cards have to be built around.
But given the fact that Viego is both a she who wanders, and a better kindred, suggests that maybe we add more support for him while narrowing down exactly what kind of card he's supposed to be.
Is he a finisher is he a controller, or is he simple a bomb that does everything? Cuz thats what he is right now.
Not to mention the token generation makes him function similar to Elise or heckarim.
So 3 champions in one body, and the only champion who's spell functions as a better vengeance.
If removal is A over costed B a speed slower then combat tricks, it will always be relatively useless as more and more tricks get printed.
It would be like in old school magic if combat tricks were "interupt" speed and removal "instant" speed it would be hugely problematic.
This is what we are seeing now, especially because these tricks A counter removal attempts B result in massive burst dmg
These decks that prioritize non interactivity and speed will remain superior in every instance.
Like what are we arguing against here? Minor cost reductions to removal where necessary to make control variants of shadow, P and Z, Demacia, and Freijord viable again.
Like when was the last time you lost to a ruination? Think real hard about it...what about a true shot barage? When was the last time you played progress day, or reckoning or any card that wasn't about you completing your game plan as opposed to denying your opponents. The answer is you don't and you haven't.
To use an mtg example since we are going there, one of the older metas was dominated by mono blue tempo.
It was all two mana counter spells, creatures that bounced your opponents creatures, and getting big flyers (elusives) on the board and combat tricks to keep them alive including hex proof (spell shield)
Sound familiar?
Tempo is about speed and non interactivity, do we want legends to be a game that is dominated by cards that you can't do anything about?
When I say control, removal, what I'm really talking about is interactivity. The game should always have nope options, you did a thing I stopped you from doing your thing.
Right now the game is decided by you do your thing I do my thing let's see who's thing wins.
Not a fan personally...and I know other players who are struggling with the same vanilla removal tools we have had since the games release are feeling the pain too
So Tempo decks are essentially ruling the meta right now
1. Azir Irelia 58 percent winrate
2. Zed Sivir 57.5
3. Pirate aggro 58.7
4. leblanc sivir and shen jarvan 56.5
5. discard aggro 56.8
6. Zed Temo 56.3
7. Draven Fizz 57.1
The reality is that there isn't a single slower deck that breaks the 55% winrate barrier, meaning that none of them can be considered A/S tier if we are simple going off statistics
Poor turbo thralls has dropped from a S tier deck to barely a 50% winrate, I think that this is definitely indicative that tempo>control right now
Ideally we would see a healthy balance between these two forces, where opponents who hit the board hard without thinking can get punished
But as it stands right now this simple isn't the case if we go by the numbers
Do we need to start seeing across the board buffs to removal options?
If combat tricks can give a card 3/1 for 1 mana or 3/0 0/3 for two, what about removal buffs?
6 mana vengence, 7 mana reckoning, 4 mana grasp, a P and Z card that does 4 dmg like soul spear
If we look at any of these deck lists none of them are attempting to control out the opponent that's a problem
Let's see one more balance adjustment with a focus on removal options in August
Viego is definately good, it just bugs me how much better then kindred he is.
I might try running both in a control list to see how that goes.
But honestly, decks are running so little removal in favor of burst speed interaction that any deck that can effectively race and curve out is very strong right now.
Seems fun, Ibex for sure is a very strong card, totally under-rated
There's a pretty strong consensus that predict sucks as a mechanic, and a deck type.
This is half right, predict doesn't function well as a self contained wincon by itself, so I'm gonna share some lists that nobody is talking about that will win games with these Champs.
Ash is very strong right now, and Zillian is essentially a self contained leveler that with enough turns is guaranteed to hit a sufficient number of bombs, or will after being replayed.
Ekko can absolutely join thr burst meta by becoming a part of it with the likes of shaped stone and absolver which pairs nicely with those 12/12 kaherees you'll be throwing down.
For vanilla Zillian Ekko I highly recommend the professor to turn all your one drops into 4/4's at burst speed. It's pretty much the only reason to be running cards like drop boarder.
I've even experimented using ekko outside of shurima and it tends to pair best with Ionia. Hell karma ez is already running a lot of the best predict cards and its pretty obvious why.
So maybe this will inspire everyone to realize that predict is a lot more flexible then people think.
You should share that Soraka list, I was struggling to find a cool home for her. Yes Sejuani is still good, she might be the rare champ where her play effect is more important then her level up.
So just gonna go through what I feel are the worst champions during the burst meta and you'll notice a trend pretty quickly where if they need to interact with other cards during combat to get value they tend to be pretty bad.
Champs that suck:
1. Vlad, my poor boy I love him greatly but man does he suck right now, and not in the way he's supposed to. Honestly they would need to bolster her drain to 2 per unit to make the endgame wincon of his deck easier.
2. Garen, being a vanilla 5/5 for 5 just isn't enough anymore while his level up is still powerful, leveling outside of concerted strike is near impossible. He probably needs tuff
3. Fiora, not seeing a lot of this lady around lately, because she's kind of a lot worse then the quick attack sticks being used for burst spells right now.
4. Braum, surviving strikes is just harder then it's ever been right now, honestly even just giving him 1 attack would help with trades
5. Victor, really slow and clunky to get rolling, and if your opponent somehow doesn't have a frostbite, a stun, a bounce, or silence on swing its a miracle.
6. Heimer, spawning a bunch of tokens really doesn't do what it used to anymore. Most decks can flood the board and require a lot less setup to pull off.
7. Kindred, he needs to kill strongest and he needs to be a 5/5 not much else to say
8. Yassao, so in the burst meta it's never been easier to make something survive 2 dmg and the good stun card (palm) is just run without him
9. Anivia, once again gains value on swing and thats increasingly hard to guarantee
10. Malphite, honestly the prince of Persia is soooo string that he almost makes Malphite pointless in his own deck. He also should work well with yassao but is too expensive at 7 mana. I'd say just hit his stats hard and drop him to 6 mana he won't be op
Champs that are better then people think:
1. Aphelios, apehlios tri beam is solid if you get the build right, also the fact that you can crescendo into the 2 mana dork and essentially make that spell cost 1 as you go for calibrum is solid
2. Jarven, total Chad probably my favorite champ in the game, can easily be run outside of Shen in fact shen doesn't really so much for him per say.
3. Ash, is a champ that gains value from burst speed interaction, and in the burst meta she's probably never been better.
4. Dragon girl, really good at surviving combat compared to every other demacia champ, while it's true she "gains value" on strike, you can force interaction post attack easily enough.
5. Kalista, fearsome aggro if built properly isn't bad and is better then people think at punishing burst meta decks.
6. Zillian/clock boy, don't run the mobalitics list it sucks. I have built a lot of brews that I feel are vastly superior to the 40% winrate mobalytics list, simple by understanding that these Champs need support/alt wincons
7. Thaliyah, plays really well in the burst meta where you can give her overwhelm, and have acess to hush to stop your opponent from making similar plays.
8. Lux, rated the worst champion in the game by Swim, she's not that bad, based entirely on her own merits she is but thankfully her dedicated supports cards are very strong. Like free detains are same as vengeance in this meta.
9. Vi, it used to be that it made no sense to have a 10 attack challenger because there were no high value trades to make her worth while. But thanks to all these she who wonders Champs running around vi has probably never had better targets
10. Swain, honestly just a really flexible champ that's always gonna have a home, and always be a threat.
11. Temo/fizz/star girl cheap elusive have never been better when decks are increasingly cutting pings like vile feast. You can use them for value, or for cheap burst sticks.
12. Lulu & Shen these support Champs are probably underrated right now, while I would say that Taric is the worst of the bunch he's still very playable too.
Champs that are average
Tf feels pretty meh right now, I was just saying that 1 mana pings, and a 2 mana stun has never been worse then in this meta but amazingly just on the merit of blue card and tf chaining he can still be alright
Lisandra, none of her decks are scary right now, she looses to aggro and to combo but thats 90% of the meta right now. In a control mirror, or midrange meta she still gets to do her thing
Sejuani, is kind of being cut from all her decks, the good news is her champ spell is quite strong, she still acts as removal, and sometimes can really mess up the opponents play patterns
Champs that require 0.1% of your brain
All cheap quick attackers right now are insanely powerful. Just look at the massive deck presence of zed, sivir, prince boy, Draven, and even jinx still puts up good numbers.
As far as I can tell this doesn't seem to be a thing. I've made opponents using the infinite combo deck go through the motions of winning just to see if there was a limit
We also have Fizz Draven , and Temo Zed. Now you havent heard of these decks, want to know why? Because frankly every deck that uses their champions as burst speed non interaction sticks play the same and are built the same.
The exception being Lee Sin because that deck actually is fairly balanced due to its longer game plan.
Board presence implies having multiple units on board. As just stated the majority of the top tier decks go all in on one champ, usually a cheap one with quick attack.
Yes some decks continue to do well playing aggro, usually revolving around burn or extra attack phases.
These decks are "fine" nobody complains that they go for a mystic shot and get noxious fevered. It's far worse when your opponent plays a 3 mana champ and depending on your region you know that he will essentially never be removed, and will threaten insane burst damage and might even have extra attacks.
Its way toooo swingy the ideal game of legends of runeterra should be decided by mana 5 not mana 3.
Easy math time card fans.
If you run a deck with 3 mystic shots what are your chances of having more then one in your opening hand?
How likely is it to have more then one combat trick in hand when you run 10 of them or more?
Therefore unless you have flock the only piece.of removal that combos with your other removal attempts you will always loose 9/10 games when this line of play occurs.
Pass pass, Zed
Pass Pass, Darius
Pass, Pass, thing, sivir, ruin runner
And the reason is that no matter what you play your removal attempts will be answered by the increasing number of cheap, efficient, and powerful burst spells being printed.
So what happens? Decks just start cutting removal entirely unless it's something like grappling hook, or whirling death, or single combat.
Like I think the devs need to understand one simple thing, for every combat trick printed there must be an equal and opposite piece of removal printed.
Otherwise it's just gonna be, play 1 thing, keep that thing alive when played, burst the opponent down to 0 after two swings...yaaah fun.
There are so many cool decks in this game, so many cool mechanics, so much intricacy and champions and deck building options
All to be boiled down to Pass Pass thing, combo out burst...why even design good cards when they will never succeed in that combat trick heavy environment?
https://www.swimstrim.com/runeterra/decks-and-meta
Roughly 5 of the top decks on Swims site have 10 burst spells on average, meaning they consist of 25% of each of those decks.
You jam them on a quick attack unit, Zed, Sivir, Darius and then you just win games.
Its basically auto build decks, with auto play win cons that don't require sequencing or turn priority.
I had said that this was going to happen and we are very much seeing this all over ladder.
Like you could play Lee Sin which costs 5 mana and requires set up, and stuns, and delaying the opponent, or you can just accomplish the same thing faster and with less skill.
Burst tricks are becoming too powerful, too numerous, too cheap, and too brain dead.
I dont know what the solution is, I had guessed that it was mana reductions for removal but it might just be nerfs to burst spells.
The original point was that the card was too "universally" good which is to say he literally fits in everywhere and does everything.
Go to mobalytics and the number of viego decks outstrip every single other champion.
But yes they all basically suck the same amount and are tier 3.
Because when a champ is designed to do everything he also does nothing well.
For sure I had said before that tempo decks are ruling the meta right now.
Like if thresh Nasus is the best "shadow" deck with an atrocity win con it only hits 53% tops
If you want to win games, play a bunch of stuff, and if you can't do that spam burst spells.
Thats kind of the sad state of things at the moment
The only way to fix this is to buff removal bit we've had that talk before
Yeah well right now control gets slaughtered by everything unless they are in noxious for flock, as it's the best removal in the game and the only one that's remained competitive with combat tricks.
Yeah it really depends on your philosophy, Zillian, Malphite, and Thaliyah are amazingly well designed cards, and I'll throw Eko in there...but yes they are bad.
The most optimized Eko list has a 40% winrate when piloted by the best players.
But is the solution for releasing a new champions just to make it universally good at everything so it does see play?
Seems like Riot was maybe getting frustrated and thought it better just to overtune and nerf later.
Azir Irelia really shouldn't have card advantage on you...I'm trying to think like even pirate aggro should at least trade 1 for 1 with them.
They are a tempo deck, they throw out free units, but their hand will usually be down to 1 and at that point they either win or they dont
Very seldom have we seen a situation where a champion can essentially be jammed into a variety of lists and have them be statistically competitive if not amazing.
Right now on mobalytics you'll see 4 different lists of similar viability
- shadow demacia
- shadow Ionia
- shadow freijord
- momo shadow
All of which perform essentially the same, suggesting that A Viego is so strong that he doesn't need much deck support B he is so strong his support cards don't matter.
Just 3 drop plus hydra, plus glimpse, and away we go.
I really like the idea that legends is a game where cards have to be built around.
But given the fact that Viego is both a she who wanders, and a better kindred, suggests that maybe we add more support for him while narrowing down exactly what kind of card he's supposed to be.
Is he a finisher is he a controller, or is he simple a bomb that does everything? Cuz thats what he is right now.
Not to mention the token generation makes him function similar to Elise or heckarim.
So 3 champions in one body, and the only champion who's spell functions as a better vengeance.
This is the thing though.
If removal is A over costed B a speed slower then combat tricks, it will always be relatively useless as more and more tricks get printed.
It would be like in old school magic if combat tricks were "interupt" speed and removal "instant" speed it would be hugely problematic.
This is what we are seeing now, especially because these tricks A counter removal attempts B result in massive burst dmg
These decks that prioritize non interactivity and speed will remain superior in every instance.
Like what are we arguing against here? Minor cost reductions to removal where necessary to make control variants of shadow, P and Z, Demacia, and Freijord viable again.
Like when was the last time you lost to a ruination? Think real hard about it...what about a true shot barage? When was the last time you played progress day, or reckoning or any card that wasn't about you completing your game plan as opposed to denying your opponents. The answer is you don't and you haven't.
Tempo and midrange aren't really the same thing.
To use an mtg example since we are going there, one of the older metas was dominated by mono blue tempo.
It was all two mana counter spells, creatures that bounced your opponents creatures, and getting big flyers (elusives) on the board and combat tricks to keep them alive including hex proof (spell shield)
Sound familiar?
Tempo is about speed and non interactivity, do we want legends to be a game that is dominated by cards that you can't do anything about?
When I say control, removal, what I'm really talking about is interactivity. The game should always have nope options, you did a thing I stopped you from doing your thing.
Right now the game is decided by you do your thing I do my thing let's see who's thing wins.
Not a fan personally...and I know other players who are struggling with the same vanilla removal tools we have had since the games release are feeling the pain too
So Tempo decks are essentially ruling the meta right now
1. Azir Irelia 58 percent winrate
2. Zed Sivir 57.5
3. Pirate aggro 58.7
4. leblanc sivir and shen jarvan 56.5
5. discard aggro 56.8
6. Zed Temo 56.3
7. Draven Fizz 57.1
The reality is that there isn't a single slower deck that breaks the 55% winrate barrier, meaning that none of them can be considered A/S tier if we are simple going off statistics
Poor turbo thralls has dropped from a S tier deck to barely a 50% winrate, I think that this is definitely indicative that tempo>control right now
Ideally we would see a healthy balance between these two forces, where opponents who hit the board hard without thinking can get punished
But as it stands right now this simple isn't the case if we go by the numbers
Do we need to start seeing across the board buffs to removal options?
If combat tricks can give a card 3/1 for 1 mana or 3/0 0/3 for two, what about removal buffs?
6 mana vengence, 7 mana reckoning, 4 mana grasp, a P and Z card that does 4 dmg like soul spear
If we look at any of these deck lists none of them are attempting to control out the opponent that's a problem
Let's see one more balance adjustment with a focus on removal options in August
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/archetypes
Already we have some pretty definitive data here.
Anything that curves out is doing exceptionally well right now, and anything that doesn't isn't.
So 55% and up
-shen jarven
-delvers
- sivir decks
- aggro decks
Decks closer to 50%
- Le sin decks
- Turbo thralls
- thresh nasus
- viego
It turns out that when all the slower decks do is go for one turn lethal they kind of get blown out by anything that builds up its board.
I would say the solution is to run removal but sivir, ruin runner complicate that climbing equation.
Not enough to stop Ezreal Draven, and Swain Tf from being the strongest control decks in the meta...must be all that removal they run.
Viego is definately good, it just bugs me how much better then kindred he is.
I might try running both in a control list to see how that goes.
But honestly, decks are running so little removal in favor of burst speed interaction that any deck that can effectively race and curve out is very strong right now.
I went 5-0 in Plat with a Lulu meme deck.