No one can say 100% one way or another without seeing the match making algorithms (which we'll never have access to).
I would say it happens too often that match making works against you for it to be completely random. I lost count a long time ago of the times I tech against a popular deck and then never see it but if I remove the tech options from that deck I instantly get the deck I originally was trying to counter.
You'll get people trying to prove to you with their 'facts' but the truth is only Blizzard knows.
What bugs me about these ideas is that it's always ALWAYS against the person posting it. If a match making algorithm isn't random then whatever system is being used should have the reverse as well: people who, no matter what changes they make, keep getting good matchups. Once a system is no longer random, it becomes a solvable puzzle that can be manipulated and gamed.
"only blizzard knows" is a cop out. The entire field of Statistics is meant to show the pattern behind the random, and humans are notorious for being very bad at hiding non-random elements. Whatever non-random system people claim, beyond any "it will know you are looking for it and hide itself" theories (which is solve by toning down on your distopian sci-fi stories), you can show evidence to suggest it actually exists.
That's not to say "It would've been found if it exists." I can very much believe that those that disagree do so blindly while those that believe ..well, do so blindly, and nearly no one has actually bothered a long-form testing, given how bloody impossible it is to actually see anyone post results either way.
But put down the "no one could know the truth.. so anything can be true" card here. It's not a good way to quiet or ignore dissent and it's far too good at ignoring whatever information doesn't fit your current bias when it SHOULD be used to question your own beliefs as well. It also spits on a very major branch of mathematics in this case.
Thank you for writing this so I didn't have to do it. *claps*
Nothing gets under my skin like “Whoops!”... well what can I say... I did the best play available to survive one more turn. No need to laugh in my face that it didn’t work
I will click Whoops a lot (it's the only emote I use). But it's always when I've made a misplay (like I can be overdrawn) or when I forget to click end turn and let the rope burn. Whoops! :(
Not a very good brawl IMO. Only 5 classes? Lots of mirror matches. Paladin is clearly overtuned compared to the other decks (although the Priest one isn't bad).
When I say I think it's a mistake to play early is when it's just something a player does to spend the mana on turn 1. That's not a good play. You play a card when you think you have a plan. Just throwing a Tracking out there on turn 1 just because you have 1 mana is not really a well-thought-out play, don't you think
This.
Players who don't get why Tracking is a decent card are probably doing this. If you learn to use it well, you'll begin to see how powerful it is.
That said, I don't think it's correct to put two in every deck. Tracking is most useful when you are looking to enable combos and exploit synergies. If you're playing a more homogeneous deck (such as some of the aggro decks from days of yore), it may not be worth the mana. When every card advances your strategy, there's no need to go fishing.
I disagree with your last statement on 2 grounds: (1) even aggro decks contain internal synergies that you want to combine. For example Beast + Kill Command, Knife Juggler + Unleashed, Mech on board + something big to magnetize; (2) aggro decks are usually floating a lot of mana. You can afford a 1-mana tracking to fish for better plays.
As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?
What would you call it then? It's too slow for aggro and too fast for control and it doesn't have an OTK or massive combo.
I think I would consider it closer to control at this point. It's basically all removal, card draw, life gain, and value generation. (A lot of the removal just happens to be on a 1/1 body. ) I don't think it's that fast, outside of an early Hyena stealing games.
The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.
That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.
This is the best answer.
Tracking is low-key the best Hunter card in basic/classic, and most decks should always play 2x. The caveat being Zul'jin. A number of midrange hunter decks cut a copy of Tracking so Zul'jin won't deck them out in long games. Personally, I still play 2x Tracking in every deck with Zul'jin, and I just won't play both copies against Warrior. But Warrior (and sometimes Shaman) are the only times this tends to come up.
As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?
Hello, any suggestions for Chapter 5 on normal ? Class, hero power, deck and picks ?
Generally, find a way to cheat mana. Whether that is the OP Robes of Gaudiness, Emerald Goggles, or even just ensuring you are playing overstatted minions on turn 1 with the "give this minion stats" and "always starts in your opening hand" enchantments. You need to be able to keep up in the early stages of the game. This is where most are lost because the final bosses start on 4 mana. I also find picking the removal treasures is also usually the more consistent option.
The Mech Token Druid isn't playing SN1P SN4P, and that feels like a mistake. I believe the deck only runs 1 Mecharoo (since Acorn Bearer is the 1 drop you want anyway).
So I have changed my mind about aggro game play. I have been playing mono-red in arena and its giving me a different perspective from aggro in hearthstone. The reason I am playing aggro is because it was a very easy deck to craft with out too many resources and it performs really well. I have to say that the interactions are not too complicated but do you have to be careful with what you play and when. Mono-Red is not just Smorc.
In hearthstone I am always annoyed by aggro game play, however I have a lot of resources so I don't have to resort to it. When new players its a great choice to play cheap aggro decks. With that in mind I think having cheap aggro decks its actually healthy for the game. To allow new players to come and experience with out too much commitment.
The block system in arena is very interesting and interactive. Would be great to be able to force some minions to block (not just taunt.) like spells or abilities that enable taunt like effect on certain minions.
At least you finally came around to the bright side!
Oh, I know it was older. That's why I was curious if we could just change the title and keep it going here.
I think in that particular deck, oblivitron is too slow. That deck is actually a very midrange deck, whereas oblivitron, to me, feels like it needs Zul'jin to feel worthwhile, and therefore a more specific pool of deathrattles.
I liked Bomb Hunter because it was the only deck that played "charge" anymore. But, as anyone who watched Silvername in GM league last week knows, it's a pretty weak deck if it's disrupted the slightest bit.
Oblivitron Deathrattle is one of my favorite decks of the expansion, but it just can't make it through the early game with much consistency.
The new Midrange Deathrattle Hunter seems like an excellent marriage of the two. All of the fast starts of Bomb Hunter, but better - you're going wide with 1/1's instead of 0/2's. And late game in the form of Whelp+Nine Lives. It also has more draw than Bomb Hunter thanks to Nine Lives, which isn't insignificant. It's a mindless deck, but I'm really liking it at the moment.
(FWIW, Vicious Syndicate is currently showing that Hunter has the highest winrate at legend, and I believe it's this deck.)
Here are the two spirit of the frog murloc version I have been trying. One is a tighter list, the other has better game against garbage like Control Warrior:
Spirit Murwock
A Murloc Shaman Deck created by
RandomGuy. Last updated 4 years, 11 months ago
I really like it. I am intrigued by running a small murloc package & Thunderhead (basically, just the good ones + maybe Tasty Fin). I also love Spirit of the Frog right now because the spell sequence just seems so good: Zap > Voltaic Burst > Soul of the Murloc > Haunting Visions > Hex > Bloodlust > The Storm Bringer.
I'm not sure how heavy handed I want to go with it though; i.e. Shudderwock, et al.
Thank you for writing this so I didn't have to do it. *claps*
I will click Whoops a lot (it's the only emote I use). But it's always when I've made a misplay (like I can be overdrawn) or when I forget to click end turn and let the rope burn. Whoops! :(
Not a very good brawl IMO. Only 5 classes? Lots of mirror matches. Paladin is clearly overtuned compared to the other decks (although the Priest one isn't bad).
Hidden text on Ticket Scalper: This card always starts in your opening hand.
I disagree with your last statement on 2 grounds: (1) even aggro decks contain internal synergies that you want to combine. For example Beast + Kill Command, Knife Juggler + Unleashed, Mech on board + something big to magnetize; (2) aggro decks are usually floating a lot of mana. You can afford a 1-mana tracking to fish for better plays.
Stop emoting.
Them: See on HSReplay and VS that everyone is playing Bomb Hunter
Also them: Play token druid to counter
Me: Plays tempo rogue - destroys both.
<insert smart meme>
I think I would consider it closer to control at this point.
It's basically all removal, card draw, life gain, and value generation. (A lot of the removal just happens to be on a 1/1 body. )
I don't think it's that fast, outside of an early Hyena stealing games.
This is the best answer.
Tracking is low-key the best Hunter card in basic/classic, and most decks should always play 2x. The caveat being Zul'jin. A number of midrange hunter decks cut a copy of Tracking so Zul'jin won't deck them out in long games. Personally, I still play 2x Tracking in every deck with Zul'jin, and I just won't play both copies against Warrior. But Warrior (and sometimes Shaman) are the only times this tends to come up.
As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?
Generally, find a way to cheat mana. Whether that is the OP Robes of Gaudiness, Emerald Goggles, or even just ensuring you are playing overstatted minions on turn 1 with the "give this minion stats" and "always starts in your opening hand" enchantments. You need to be able to keep up in the early stages of the game. This is where most are lost because the final bosses start on 4 mana. I also find picking the removal treasures is also usually the more consistent option.
I have yet to play a warrior that didn't open Rover on 1, Weapon on 4, Dyno on 5.
This is always how echo has worked.
The Mech Token Druid isn't playing SN1P SN4P, and that feels like a mistake. I believe the deck only runs 1 Mecharoo (since Acorn Bearer is the 1 drop you want anyway).
At least you finally came around to the bright side!
Oh, I know it was older. That's why I was curious if we could just change the title and keep it going here.
I think in that particular deck, oblivitron is too slow. That deck is actually a very midrange deck, whereas oblivitron, to me, feels like it needs Zul'jin to feel worthwhile, and therefore a more specific pool of deathrattles.
Can we edit titles? Maybe this can be renamed "Mech Hunter after Buffs."
So right now, it appears we have 3 types of Mech Hunter
- Bomb
- Oblivitron Deathrattle (w/ Zul'jin)
- Midrange Deathrattle
I liked Bomb Hunter because it was the only deck that played "charge" anymore. But, as anyone who watched Silvername in GM league last week knows, it's a pretty weak deck if it's disrupted the slightest bit.
Oblivitron Deathrattle is one of my favorite decks of the expansion, but it just can't make it through the early game with much consistency.
The new Midrange Deathrattle Hunter seems like an excellent marriage of the two. All of the fast starts of Bomb Hunter, but better - you're going wide with 1/1's instead of 0/2's. And late game in the form of Whelp+Nine Lives. It also has more draw than Bomb Hunter thanks to Nine Lives, which isn't insignificant. It's a mindless deck, but I'm really liking it at the moment.
(FWIW, Vicious Syndicate is currently showing that Hunter has the highest winrate at legend, and I believe it's this deck.)
Here are the two spirit of the frog murloc version I have been trying. One is a tighter list, the other has better game against garbage like Control Warrior:
No. That's the payoff.
I really like it.
I am intrigued by running a small murloc package & Thunderhead (basically, just the good ones + maybe Tasty Fin).
I also love Spirit of the Frog right now because the spell sequence just seems so good: Zap > Voltaic Burst > Soul of the Murloc > Haunting Visions > Hex > Bloodlust > The Storm Bringer.
I'm not sure how heavy handed I want to go with it though; i.e. Shudderwock, et al.
I wonder if he should have gone deeper on Extra Arms and run Crystalizer, ditching some of the "too cute" stuff like Zerek and power word: replicate.
It has natural predators in Sap and Hex, and with the current state of mechs in the game, I think those counters are going to be pretty prevalent.