Wait, do we have any idea what was causing DH's and Warlocks to have a higher than average winrate in Arena? This is a bit surprising of a hotfix (to me at least)
The last 48 hours I've seen the same number of paladins I did pre-DH nerf. 1 or 2 druids. A handful of 'mill' warlocks all running tickatus *eyeroll*. But by far the most proliferate class is evolve shaman. So bloody annoying. They either get the nuts draw and you generally can't do anything about a full board of 2-10 cost minions (depending on if they drew the 9 cost 3/4 that gets cheaper with minions on board) or they somehow never draw their knuckles and you run over them easily.
I've still run into a few OTK warriors as well, but yea, not nearly as many as one would have seen before.
So what is everyone experiencing after the 'Apology Patch'?
I've seen a ton of control warlocks. I don't think Demon Hunter was killed off, but I guess the perception is that people believe it was killed, cause I haven't seen a single DH since the patch hit. A bunch of druids, warlocks, and paladins, oh and shaman.
Or how about an option to deactivate seeable up- and downvotes? I have no real interest in seeing how "the majority" likes or dislikes certain posts. I want an "unrated" look on posts I read for the first time.
I actually like this idea. Hidden votes (for comments/posts). Decks should still show the vote count to show popularity of them though.
I'm a little surprised that they didn't nerf Twin Slice or Soulshard Lapidary. Both of those cards are still able to pump up DH attack values to insane heights and allow blade dance to be problematic.
Was Blade Dance too powerful? Yes of course. But I honestly think Lapidary should have nerfed the attack gain to +4. My reasoning behind this is that Lapidary+hero power enables Bladed Lady. If they nerfed it down to +4 attack, the only way they can play bladed lady is by using multiple attack buff cards or by having a weapon equipped.
As for twin slice. I think it's echo effect (Second Slice) needs to be nerfed to +1 attack. The first half should be 1 mana (+2 attack) and the second half should be 1 mana (+1 attack).
I'm glad that they foresaw the issues with Highlander Hunter and pre-emptively nerfed support cards for them as well, but I'm a little worried about the possible ensuing meta after today that may form. Perhaps the mid-season card release of 35 cards will provide enough new tools to allow the meta time to breath and experiment again.
True, but generally when people talk about nerfs they talk about oppressive cards getting nerfed. While it's obviously better to have balance patches that nerf overused/overpowered cards and buff underused/underpowered cards, a strict viewpoint that "nerfing everything is bad" is short sighted. Sometimes the only tool available given a specific situation is to nerf cards.
Since I'm weighing in here on this subject, on a personal note I'd like to see Blizzard do balance adjustments every 2 weeks for the first month of an expansion, and then after the first month, monthly balance adjustments. The hands off attitude has to go away. The mentality that "the meta will fix itself" has proven that it doesn't really work. And will continue to be harder and harder to naturally find equilibrium the more cards and classes they plan to add to hearthstone (adding more cards mid-season, and more classes in upcoming years will only exacerbate meta problems)
I think this is relevant (and fun to watch). 6 Years ago I watched the video when I was playing League, and it's still a sick line for Viktor:
Quote From Viktor
I am the inventor, a bold experimenter.Join as my acolyte and I will be your mentor.Science will destroy you, it will build you anew.The gifts I offer now, eternal power; a new point of view.Steel will fix all your flaws, you will rise above human laws.You will mock them made of meat, they'll drop to worship at your feet.Forget now, the shame of defeat. Our victory shall be so sweet!Replace all your petty emotions, or keep your blood; you'll bleed oceans!All you little fleshbags stuck with your old hags, watch as their skin sags they're fodder for my labs.Your bodies are so frail. We will be your final nail!This is the revolution…THE GLORIOUS EVOLUTION!
I guess Overflow and Guess the Weight can sorta work, just additional cautiousness towards burning C'Thun pieces. I prefer Moontouched Amulet, because it gives you important Armor so that you have more "Health" to eventually heal yourself with. [Hearthstone Card (Mo'Arg Arttificer) Not Found] works well with most of damaging spells here, including Wrath. Still thinking about Nature Studies.
You generally don't tend to burn any cards. It's rare that you cast 2 copies of Overflow in a game, it's just there to improve consistency with drawing the card and having it when you need it. You want lots of draw because 1) you want to find your ramp. 2) You want to find your cthun pieces and 3) you want to draw cthun. More draw allows you to consistenly get those pieces out in time. I understand the idea behind moontouched amulet, I even ran it myself for awhile in my druid deck. And under niche circumstances It does work out well a lot of the time, however it needs to be corrupted to gain the armor (not terribly hard) but it makes it clunky under aggro circumstances. This is why I think Nature studies would do you better, it discounts the next spell (which technically means it's a 0 cost spell in some situations), and it allows you versatility to choose what you need. Up against aggro? Discover a healing/armor/early removal spell. Up against control? Discover a late game stall card (like Cenarion Ward).
If you do decide to make some changes, change only a few things at a time. Like for instance I'd only change 1 or 2 cards, and see if the deck pushes you in a better direction. If it works keep it. I just was throwing out a few ideas of cards to consider changing. Good luck!
You probably aren't wrong. Pen Flinger versus Pyromancer is probably just a case of niche scenarios where one is better than the other but under different circumstances.
You are not suffering from it so you don't understand how incredibly annoying it is to have to reload the game every few minutes just to be able to do a quest or simply to have some fun.
Really, You assume I've never suffered from any disconnects in any game before, and therefore can't possibly fathom how frustrating a disconnection experience can be? Of course I can. Everyone can. You are not some unique snowflake. I'm not trying to be snarky but assumptive statements like this are irksome to me. Everyone has had connection issues in some form or another.
Quote From SLima
I have never seen anything like this in any other online games that i played. It's bizarre the kind of problems that affect this game from time to time. If this keeps happening i'll have to stop playing because this seriously irritates me to the point of making me want to punch something. And i'm an incredibly chill person. It's that obnoxious.
Never seen d/c's happen like this in any other online game? I could regal you with an experience I had when I was 22 where one summer when playing LOTRO: Shadows of Angmar when it first released I could no longer raid with my clan due to getting disconnected every 5 seconds. Long story short? The issue wasn't locally and it wasn't the servers on their side. It was my connection chain in the middle getting feedback on the line causing micro-disconnects and signal interference on the trunk lines.
Secondly, you proved my point. If I'm clearly not suffering from it, it's not a server side issue. If it's happening to multiple people it's usually an ISP related issue or a chokepoint along the way that causes issues that are common to certain regions.
I work in IT, it's not uncommon for one person to have an issue, and another person to not have an issue. Things fault, don't work properly and often times there's not a particular party at fault. It's just the tangled nest of relayed connections having problems.
Your connection to Blizzard servers, or even specifically Hearthstone servers, may take a COMPLETELY different route in connecting than when you play other games.
And lastly, warning this is me being snarky: If a game d/cing makes you want to punch something, you aren't a chill person...no matter how much you may vehemently state that you are. Only children and unstable people think that punching things will fix them. Which one are you?
Any reason you are running Nourish instead of Overflow? Considering it's a pure control deck, the healing you miss out from Hidden Oasis can be essentially regained from Overflow, and healing your opponent is usually of little concern, it's the card draw and stall from healing you want combined into a single card.
My suggestions:
Drop 2x Rising Winds and put in 2x Guess the Weight (better pure draw for the most part)
Drop 2x Nourish and put in 2x Overflow (better card efficacy, Nourish is not needed in a deck with blooms and Overgrowth's
Drop 2x Wrath and put in 2x Nature Studies (versatility and mana cheating)
Drop 2x Moontouched Amulet and put in 2x Umbral Owl
When I think of spell druid, I think of a mana cheating deck that functions in a similar style to No-Minion Mage. It's also a possibility to drop the two beetles and put in a copy of Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate and a copy of Wild Growth to make the low end more consistent. Idea being that you want to draw into your win conditions being Yogg or C'thun. Crystalsong Portal can also be not used, and alternatively you lean into the card draw/spells hard with synergistic cards like Ysera, Unleashed or Archspore Msshi'fn or Speaker Gidra.
I mean to be fair, the deck doesn't need pyromancer when it can use a 0 cost libram of wisdom to bounce pen flinger multiple times in a turn. You rarely need a "full" board aoe these days except against evolve shaman.
And to answer your second question, libram paladin doesn't beat up demon hunters. One of the best things I learned playing Legends of Runeterra was that every game each person has a role "Are you the aggressor or the controller?". Even in mirror matches as the first few turns play out, it's clear one person gains the upper hand and it turns into "how do you retake control, or how do you leverage your lead?"
But to continue, libram paladin can control the board just enough to outheal the face damage. Libram of Hope coupled with taunts, big minions, and pings from Pen Flinger are usually enough. Yes, it can still lose to DH, but then gain so can any deck if the opponent gets a nuts draw.
Nice that they are fixing some things but this is far from enough. I'm still having constant disconnections. This is happening even during games in adventure mode. I'm not even getting any achievements or anything. Yet, the game feels like disconnecting me every other game which is so obnoxious and infuriating!
Ever consider that the disconnects are possibly on your end or in the middle? I mean occasional disconnects happen, in every software application that communicates over a network. Obviously, frequent disconnections are annoying and possibly problematic, but casting blame on "I keep getting disconnected" and throwing fault at a company when it could be many things (Your ISP, your router, your network card or network configurations, etc) is shortsighted at best.
Frequently if you are able to connect in the first place, and you get disconnected it sounds like you are dropping packets or something.
A few things to help troubleshoot: Use MTR or Ping Plotter to help you determine where and how often you are dropping packets.
Secondly: Try enabling QoS in your router/modem, ensure your modem/router and PC are handshaking the correct bandwidth (the max), and lastly try manually setting the TCP and UDP ports for the games you play and giving them highest priority in your modem/router's settings.
Agreed, but the problem is, without librams paladins were kind of dumpster tier, relegated to playing murloc aggro decks (remember tip the scales?) or meme dragon decks. The biggest problem I see right now is super powerful neutrals like Pen Flinger and Broom. Without those, paladin is still counterable in a number of fashions.
Also the other inherent issue is the lack of priests on ladder.
The meta is being warped by Demon Hunter aggro and hunter aggro. As such, the only classes that can compete with that are:
Paladins with taunts/lots of healing.
Druids, mages, and shaman with highroll decks.
Warriors with insane armor gain and OTK
If demon hunter got nerfed enough, it would allow breathing room for other decks to flourish, thus allowing paladin's natural counter (priests with their steal/silence effects) to push the meta in a different direction.
I agree that Dragonbane is a fine card. It enables a semi-control hunter archtype or a face archetype and doesn't pigeonhole the class (which is a good thing). On the other hand, I don't really enjoy cards that cheat out other cards for free.
Take Phase Stalker for example. A 2 mana 2/3 body, that when you "inspire" (also, small side rant: There's literally NO reason for them to not re-use the keyword here...I'm honestly super annoyed that Hearthstone devs REFUSE to use previous keywords (except for discover which they apaprently have no problem re-using)) casts a free secret from your deck. You could compare it to Ancient Mysterious for mage (both are 2 mana, both pull a secret for free from your deck...except Phase Stalker is also a body. Yes, technically in order to gain value from phase stalker you have to have "4 mana" to use the inspire proc, but there are ways to cheat that out as well. Overall I just think what this card does is too good. And it being a 2/3 is problematic. It should be a 2/2 so it's easier to clear early on.
And voracious reader is a problem in many decks. It's essentially a BETTER jeeves. And that saw a ton of play in aggro decks. I understand at some point, similar mechanics and ideas are going to be recycled, but honestly it's like they aren't even trying to balance cards.
I can't tell if this is a tongue in cheek snarky comment, or a hat tip comment. In either case, it either needs clarification if the latter, or needs to not be said if the former. (If I want to read snarky asinine comments I can just go to reddit)
Wait, do we have any idea what was causing DH's and Warlocks to have a higher than average winrate in Arena? This is a bit surprising of a hotfix (to me at least)
The last 48 hours I've seen the same number of paladins I did pre-DH nerf. 1 or 2 druids. A handful of 'mill' warlocks all running tickatus *eyeroll*. But by far the most proliferate class is evolve shaman. So bloody annoying. They either get the nuts draw and you generally can't do anything about a full board of 2-10 cost minions (depending on if they drew the 9 cost 3/4 that gets cheaper with minions on board) or they somehow never draw their knuckles and you run over them easily.
I've still run into a few OTK warriors as well, but yea, not nearly as many as one would have seen before.
So what is everyone experiencing after the 'Apology Patch'?
I've seen a ton of control warlocks. I don't think Demon Hunter was killed off, but I guess the perception is that people believe it was killed, cause I haven't seen a single DH since the patch hit. A bunch of druids, warlocks, and paladins, oh and shaman.
I actually like this idea. Hidden votes (for comments/posts). Decks should still show the vote count to show popularity of them though.
I'm a little surprised that they didn't nerf Twin Slice or Soulshard Lapidary. Both of those cards are still able to pump up DH attack values to insane heights and allow blade dance to be problematic.
Was Blade Dance too powerful? Yes of course. But I honestly think Lapidary should have nerfed the attack gain to +4. My reasoning behind this is that Lapidary+hero power enables Bladed Lady. If they nerfed it down to +4 attack, the only way they can play bladed lady is by using multiple attack buff cards or by having a weapon equipped.
As for twin slice. I think it's echo effect (Second Slice) needs to be nerfed to +1 attack. The first half should be 1 mana (+2 attack) and the second half should be 1 mana (+1 attack).
I'm glad that they foresaw the issues with Highlander Hunter and pre-emptively nerfed support cards for them as well, but I'm a little worried about the possible ensuing meta after today that may form. Perhaps the mid-season card release of 35 cards will provide enough new tools to allow the meta time to breath and experiment again.
True, but generally when people talk about nerfs they talk about oppressive cards getting nerfed. While it's obviously better to have balance patches that nerf overused/overpowered cards and buff underused/underpowered cards, a strict viewpoint that "nerfing everything is bad" is short sighted. Sometimes the only tool available given a specific situation is to nerf cards.
Since I'm weighing in here on this subject, on a personal note I'd like to see Blizzard do balance adjustments every 2 weeks for the first month of an expansion, and then after the first month, monthly balance adjustments. The hands off attitude has to go away. The mentality that "the meta will fix itself" has proven that it doesn't really work. And will continue to be harder and harder to naturally find equilibrium the more cards and classes they plan to add to hearthstone (adding more cards mid-season, and more classes in upcoming years will only exacerbate meta problems)
I think this is relevant (and fun to watch). 6 Years ago I watched the video when I was playing League, and it's still a sick line for Viktor:
- From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNpS8QqD_I
As for the cards, they seem fantastic and thematic for Viktor. I hope he pans out to be a viable champion.
Yea I thought the same thing. My only guess is maybe Zuan is getting their own region? So maybe Piltover and Zuan are being split?
Wait, didn't P&Z already have the university landmark? Why are they getting a 2nd landmark?
You generally don't tend to burn any cards. It's rare that you cast 2 copies of Overflow in a game, it's just there to improve consistency with drawing the card and having it when you need it. You want lots of draw because 1) you want to find your ramp. 2) You want to find your cthun pieces and 3) you want to draw cthun. More draw allows you to consistenly get those pieces out in time. I understand the idea behind moontouched amulet, I even ran it myself for awhile in my druid deck. And under niche circumstances It does work out well a lot of the time, however it needs to be corrupted to gain the armor (not terribly hard) but it makes it clunky under aggro circumstances. This is why I think Nature studies would do you better, it discounts the next spell (which technically means it's a 0 cost spell in some situations), and it allows you versatility to choose what you need. Up against aggro? Discover a healing/armor/early removal spell. Up against control? Discover a late game stall card (like Cenarion Ward).
If you do decide to make some changes, change only a few things at a time. Like for instance I'd only change 1 or 2 cards, and see if the deck pushes you in a better direction. If it works keep it. I just was throwing out a few ideas of cards to consider changing. Good luck!
You probably aren't wrong. Pen Flinger versus Pyromancer is probably just a case of niche scenarios where one is better than the other but under different circumstances.
Really, You assume I've never suffered from any disconnects in any game before, and therefore can't possibly fathom how frustrating a disconnection experience can be? Of course I can. Everyone can. You are not some unique snowflake. I'm not trying to be snarky but assumptive statements like this are irksome to me. Everyone has had connection issues in some form or another.
Never seen d/c's happen like this in any other online game? I could regal you with an experience I had when I was 22 where one summer when playing LOTRO: Shadows of Angmar when it first released I could no longer raid with my clan due to getting disconnected every 5 seconds. Long story short? The issue wasn't locally and it wasn't the servers on their side. It was my connection chain in the middle getting feedback on the line causing micro-disconnects and signal interference on the trunk lines.
Secondly, you proved my point. If I'm clearly not suffering from it, it's not a server side issue. If it's happening to multiple people it's usually an ISP related issue or a chokepoint along the way that causes issues that are common to certain regions.
I work in IT, it's not uncommon for one person to have an issue, and another person to not have an issue. Things fault, don't work properly and often times there's not a particular party at fault. It's just the tangled nest of relayed connections having problems.
Your connection to Blizzard servers, or even specifically Hearthstone servers, may take a COMPLETELY different route in connecting than when you play other games.
And lastly, warning this is me being snarky: If a game d/cing makes you want to punch something, you aren't a chill person...no matter how much you may vehemently state that you are. Only children and unstable people think that punching things will fix them. Which one are you?
Any reason you are running Nourish instead of Overflow? Considering it's a pure control deck, the healing you miss out from Hidden Oasis can be essentially regained from Overflow, and healing your opponent is usually of little concern, it's the card draw and stall from healing you want combined into a single card.
My suggestions:
Drop 2x Rising Winds and put in 2x Guess the Weight (better pure draw for the most part)
Drop 2x Nourish and put in 2x Overflow (better card efficacy, Nourish is not needed in a deck with blooms and Overgrowth's
Drop 2x Wrath and put in 2x Nature Studies (versatility and mana cheating)
Drop 2x Moontouched Amulet and put in 2x Umbral Owl
Drop 2x Mo'Arg and put in 2x Crystalsong Portal
When I think of spell druid, I think of a mana cheating deck that functions in a similar style to No-Minion Mage. It's also a possibility to drop the two beetles and put in a copy of Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate and a copy of Wild Growth to make the low end more consistent. Idea being that you want to draw into your win conditions being Yogg or C'thun. Crystalsong Portal can also be not used, and alternatively you lean into the card draw/spells hard with synergistic cards like Ysera, Unleashed or Archspore Msshi'fn or Speaker Gidra.
I mean to be fair, the deck doesn't need pyromancer when it can use a 0 cost libram of wisdom to bounce pen flinger multiple times in a turn. You rarely need a "full" board aoe these days except against evolve shaman.
And to answer your second question, libram paladin doesn't beat up demon hunters. One of the best things I learned playing Legends of Runeterra was that every game each person has a role "Are you the aggressor or the controller?". Even in mirror matches as the first few turns play out, it's clear one person gains the upper hand and it turns into "how do you retake control, or how do you leverage your lead?"
But to continue, libram paladin can control the board just enough to outheal the face damage. Libram of Hope coupled with taunts, big minions, and pings from Pen Flinger are usually enough. Yes, it can still lose to DH, but then gain so can any deck if the opponent gets a nuts draw.
Not to mention but I personally find SilverName bloody annoying to watch. He's worse than Kripp when it comes to being salty about opponent's plays.
Ever consider that the disconnects are possibly on your end or in the middle? I mean occasional disconnects happen, in every software application that communicates over a network. Obviously, frequent disconnections are annoying and possibly problematic, but casting blame on "I keep getting disconnected" and throwing fault at a company when it could be many things (Your ISP, your router, your network card or network configurations, etc) is shortsighted at best.
Frequently if you are able to connect in the first place, and you get disconnected it sounds like you are dropping packets or something.
A few things to help troubleshoot: Use MTR or Ping Plotter to help you determine where and how often you are dropping packets.
Secondly: Try enabling QoS in your router/modem, ensure your modem/router and PC are handshaking the correct bandwidth (the max), and lastly try manually setting the TCP and UDP ports for the games you play and giving them highest priority in your modem/router's settings.
Agreed, but the problem is, without librams paladins were kind of dumpster tier, relegated to playing murloc aggro decks (remember tip the scales?) or meme dragon decks. The biggest problem I see right now is super powerful neutrals like Pen Flinger and Broom. Without those, paladin is still counterable in a number of fashions.
Also the other inherent issue is the lack of priests on ladder.
The meta is being warped by Demon Hunter aggro and hunter aggro. As such, the only classes that can compete with that are:
If demon hunter got nerfed enough, it would allow breathing room for other decks to flourish, thus allowing paladin's natural counter (priests with their steal/silence effects) to push the meta in a different direction.
I agree that Dragonbane is a fine card. It enables a semi-control hunter archtype or a face archetype and doesn't pigeonhole the class (which is a good thing). On the other hand, I don't really enjoy cards that cheat out other cards for free.
Take Phase Stalker for example. A 2 mana 2/3 body, that when you "inspire" (also, small side rant: There's literally NO reason for them to not re-use the keyword here...I'm honestly super annoyed that Hearthstone devs REFUSE to use previous keywords (except for discover which they apaprently have no problem re-using)) casts a free secret from your deck. You could compare it to Ancient Mysterious for mage (both are 2 mana, both pull a secret for free from your deck...except Phase Stalker is also a body. Yes, technically in order to gain value from phase stalker you have to have "4 mana" to use the inspire proc, but there are ways to cheat that out as well. Overall I just think what this card does is too good. And it being a 2/3 is problematic. It should be a 2/2 so it's easier to clear early on.
And voracious reader is a problem in many decks. It's essentially a BETTER jeeves. And that saw a ton of play in aggro decks. I understand at some point, similar mechanics and ideas are going to be recycled, but honestly it's like they aren't even trying to balance cards.
I can't tell if this is a tongue in cheek snarky comment, or a hat tip comment. In either case, it either needs clarification if the latter, or needs to not be said if the former. (If I want to read snarky asinine comments I can just go to reddit)