See and that is the main reason why I got less and less interested in LoR since call of the mountain.
A new region came in got a gimmic that is a virtual middlefinger for a large portion of the cardpool, shinked the pool of viable cards significantly (while more cards are in the game...).
Targon got their main silence card nerfed multiple times already just to realize that it is still op and oppressive after the nerfs... maybe riot will admit one day that silence should not be castable in combat? That would kinda kill hush, but would revive so many interesting archetypes and make the game so much more fun imo.
A card I underestimated on a broad scale (because I play decks with a lot of ping effects) is Zoe. I think Zoe lives from the exeptional ability of targon to protect units, a level of protection that would make even Teemo viable ...
Also I thought Riven and Viktor were good but... what buff card would ever be good in a silence meta?
Btw I really would want to know from you if think that silence made the game better or worse?
By slow speed i mean that you play a very unit heavy build and units develop at slow speed. And while this concept works for ephemeral decks (because they are balanced around that downside) it makes open attacks really difficult to do for your list.
That hush is not that bad right now: There's a reason why they nerfed it to 3 mana and why targon decks still run it as a 2/3 of. (Maybe because not mana is the right kind of nerf but a mechanical nerf like "can't be cast during combat")
Anyways: Hush is widely used and ends every riven's career with ease -> riven decks won't make it into tier 1
You can play Riven but I don't see her being competitive anytime soon. Especially as long as her sword is still slow speed... the right buff would have been imo to change the sword to noncombat burst speed to also make more thematical sense and turn the buff into a big threat that doesn't get nopified right away...
Back to your decklist:
In general your deck feels like it serves too many themes without actually supporting them.
Especially something like a crowd favourite is in this version not that good imo but it's your deck and if it works for you play it
I am not the one to judge wether it works for you so you do you
I was exited for the Patch actually expecting to not run into targon in 80% of my games but it was just foolish to think that a 1 mana nerf to Hush would make it any less used / rediculous
Since mf scouts got a pretty big hit the game shifted to a pretty control heavy state, a control state in which targon is still favoured by many players.
Can we just once have a meta without a massive proliferation of silence effects in it? Sure players will play silence all day if it's remotely playable simply because it has such a huge range of possible targets to counter.
Silence is an effect you simply can't properly play around other than not relying on buffs and effects.
This deckbuilding restriction is massive and is the reason why since Hush came into the game the game became less and less interesting to me.
Playing more heavily around certain cards became pointless.
To not get wrecked by hush you MUST resort to a relatively small subset of cards, the cards that that we see right now in the meta.
It is a little bit like Teferi, time reveler a card from mtg that dictated how to build an play the decks viable in standard by hard countering any deck relying on instant speed (fast/burst speed in LoR) spells.
As Swim already said: Hush will almost never trade down even at 3 mana and players will continue running it as a 3 of in any targon deck still and it seems like he was right about that.
Is there really no solution to this issue other than start playing more vanilla cards/etb cards?
He is on tf powerlevel and we know how busted tf is.
He stands just like tf for massive card advantage and given how good his tools are to slow down the game its no wonder that we currently have one big targon control fest in Runeterra.
Instead I would even take away 1 health and make her level up now double every attack buff not only her 1st each round.
This way she becomes super dangerous right on the turn she comes down and makes her more conparable to Zed
Or instead you could give the leveled up Riven "whenever my attack gets increased for the first time each round give me challenger this round and double the attack gained"
It is the only exploit I know of at least. Something one should maybe address is the fact that damage dealt by a jungle invade (no matter if you use it or your opponent) counts as noncombat damage so that Swain levels in this mode all the time without even using a single burn spell but that is not really an exploit, more of a mechanical issue that should be fixed
I don't know why all I wrote was deleted but lets try again then^^
So for those who don't know what the Jungle lab is about: both players have a jungle monster on their side of the field which is vulnerable and immobile. Killing it grants you very powerful Spells- the buffs.
The problem with Spell Thief here is that you can steal Jungle buffs that your opponent played and paying 1 mana to steal a 0 mana jungle buff that is worth about 5-12 mana is pretty unfair and basically punishes your opponent for playing the game.
Therefore I think Riot should eighter block the steal of buffs or remove spellthief from the game mode simply because it is way too powerful for 1 mana
Noxus and P&Z have the best landmark removal spells of all the regions. They can easily be slotted into any deck with either of those regions, and they are very far from useless if your opponent has no landmarks.
By the way, regarding your winrate dropping over time - I'm fairly confident that the declining winrate of people who have been playing the game longer is due to the simple factor of increasing skill level of the playerbase overall. There are far fewer bad players now than there were 4-5 months ago. When the skill level of the entire playerbase increases over time, that means the winrate of all of the good players will decline (due to getting fewer easy wins because the opponent misplayed). It's a lot harder to maintain a 70% winrate when you have far fewer cases of winning to opponent mistakes.
The points you bring up are certainly true, yes we have way less noobs in the game so we will have less free wins.
Nonetheless games became way less predictable for both players in order to "spice it up".
You have way more often the situation that: Playing card x might be good here but gets wrecked if my opponent has y. If I don't play x my opponent play z and screw me and where it comes down to spraying and praying my opponent hasn't y or z because I simply can't counter y/z-outcome with the deck I play.
while this is business as usual in card games I think Hush goes too far with this concept because it can't be countered, is 2 mana can only be made harder to resolve with Bastion which is also only available to targon. The only way to actually counter this card to play a deck that doesn't care about silence.
Decks that don't care about Hush have to use: only small sized buffs and units that do not rely on effects other than etb effects and looking at the meta this is EXACTLY what we see in the meta right now.
And about the landmark thing: I already said that Aftershock is perfectly fine as a landmark answer even out of landmark matchups, although it gets you behind mana-wise when used against a grand plazaBADCARDNAME.
Scorched Earth is not very desirable to noxus decks that would not use noxian guillutineBADCARDNAME anyways, which is pretty much only noxus control. Killing an injured enemy minion for 3 is just way more narrow than it looks (otherwise Ravenous Flock was a go to card for any noxus card).
Landmarks actually only create complex situations in mulligan, not in play.
If you have randmark removal in your deck because you can't say for sure if your opponent will have a landmark in deck/hand and how many landmark answer will be needed and having too many copies of landmark removal almost always hurts you.
It is unlikely to get to draw the second landmark removals during a game and almost impossible to get to draw the third copy of landmark removal unless you run 2 different kinds of landmark removal which hardly fits any deck.
If you don't have have landmark removal at all in your deck you just can spray and pray they don't find it in time.
If you don't have have landmark removal in hand but removal in your deck you don't full mulligan unless the game literally comes down to wether a landmark copy sticks in play or not and again just try to start well and prey and spray.
Overall spraying and preying became way more usual in LoR and and that is what I dislike in the end.
Now this should actually be the Viktor enabler we waited for, sure it was meant for Aphelios but with the moon-weapon-theme combined augment should finally shine
I know I proably should open an new threat for the following topic but I'm too lazy to do...
I don't know how you feel about the game but I am quite unhappy how the game feels to play.
The regions I like the most Noxus(of cause) Freljord(frostbite-midrange) and P&Z(Heimerdinger)aren't doing that well and overall I see a lot of targon played.
I still don't like targon as a region and especially I still don't like Hush and the concept of silence in general.
Players complained a lot about Hush as it came out and tbh its feels as toxic of a mechanic as it was when it came out.
Sure, its now limited to 1 target but that is enough to screw over decks that play around buffs or certain effects and that it is just 2 mana at burst speed... its a real feel bad card that can decide games by screwing 1 large unit up or jam an effect that would stop you. Silencing is proably the main reason for targon's popularity aside of Zoe and her highroll potential.
Also I feel bad about landmarks making it into tier decks now. Landmark removal is still narrow and the cards that deal with landmarks usually suck in non landmark matchups (with the exeption of aftershock and divergent paths).
As swim already ranted, landmarks are very rng cards because they have to be broken if you draw exactly 1 copy and play it on curve because otherwise they are pointless and won't see play.
Landmarks suck if you draw multiples, landmarks need several turns to become worth it so drawing them late is terrible not to mention the fact that landmarks are play-around-cards that influence the deckbuilding significantly and therefore make your deck relient on getting them early.
Short: the concept of landmarks is terrible and the best way for riot to deal with landmarks is to rework them, giving them a replacement card if you have already a copy of them in play, and shift some of their ongoing power to immediate power so they are way less rng and healthier design.
In general I wonder if it is just me or that games became a lot less predictable and rng heavier, and therefore less strategic since call of the mountain? It feels like it and it feels bad to me. I once had 70%-80% winrate now we are talking way closer to 50% without me getting worse at the game...
A card that I think could use a nerf although not being that obvious of a nerf candidate is Doombeast. It is essentially the Lifedrinker of Runeterra and goes in pretty much every single SI deck because it combines a solid body, heal and burn in a 3 mana unit... which is just very good. Runeterra's philosophy that every card should have it's own niche while no card should be autoinclude doesn't fit that well with Doombeast so I would change the burn effect from drain to simply burn to keep it's aggressive nature while tuning it down decently
You haven't seen such a strategy because it is by design inconsiatsnt and has many flaws.
Why would you go the noxus route with survival skills if you instead could go with demacia For Demacia! going wide. Noxus isn't good at going wide and especially not going wide and big at the same time a deck like you have in mind would need several turns to build such a board and if you use survival skills on turn 8 its not that great anymore (especially if your opponent answers it with a ruination)
That this card is the only decent card out of the new released noxus theme is quite telling and sad.
I mean it is only consequent that a build around mechanics like reforge only can be eighter good in general or suck in general with all cards sharing the same fate no matter if they are better than the other reforge cards.
Lets see if riot agrees with me and if so they should buff the runescar mageBADCARDNAME to a 3/2 statline and the finished sword to also grant 2 life
Thats exactly what I thought. From a lore standpoint it makes a lot more sense for the Mechanized Mimic which like Viktor puts FUNCTION OVER FORM to be an unappealing scary abbomination instead of a chick with way too many grafts.
I think the biggest issue with Riven is her all-inn nature where you buff her to 12+ attack with ease but get blown out by a stunn/frostbite in response. Also the issue with Riven decks is, she gets a lot weaker when drawn later on. Overall there aren't that many uses for her Sword so that the all in character of the deck gets even worse. The top decks of the current meta (although it certainly will change lot i think) don't mind if they don't draw their key cards, they just work WAY better if they do. Without a second decent user for the reforged blade, the Riven decks will stay bad just because their gameplan is too unreliable and fragile.
See and that is the main reason why I got less and less interested in LoR since call of the mountain.
A new region came in got a gimmic that is a virtual middlefinger for a large portion of the cardpool, shinked the pool of viable cards significantly (while more cards are in the game...).
Targon got their main silence card nerfed multiple times already just to realize that it is still op and oppressive after the nerfs... maybe riot will admit one day that silence should not be castable in combat? That would kinda kill hush, but would revive so many interesting archetypes and make the game so much more fun imo.
A card I underestimated on a broad scale (because I play decks with a lot of ping effects) is Zoe. I think Zoe lives from the exeptional ability of targon to protect units, a level of protection that would make even Teemo viable ...
Also I thought Riven and Viktor were good but... what buff card would ever be good in a silence meta?
Btw I really would want to know from you if think that silence made the game better or worse?
By slow speed i mean that you play a very unit heavy build and units develop at slow speed. And while this concept works for ephemeral decks (because they are balanced around that downside) it makes open attacks really difficult to do for your list.
That hush is not that bad right now: There's a reason why they nerfed it to 3 mana and why targon decks still run it as a 2/3 of. (Maybe because not mana is the right kind of nerf but a mechanical nerf like "can't be cast during combat")
Anyways: Hush is widely used and ends every riven's career with ease -> riven decks won't make it into tier 1
You can play Riven but I don't see her being competitive anytime soon. Especially as long as her sword is still slow speed... the right buff would have been imo to change the sword to noncombat burst speed to also make more thematical sense and turn the buff into a big threat that doesn't get nopified right away...
Back to your decklist:
In general your deck feels like it serves too many themes without actually supporting them.
Especially something like a crowd favourite is in this version not that good imo but it's your deck and if it works for you play it
I am not the one to judge wether it works for you so you do you
Well the decklist you just posted... Its almost 100% slow speed cards that require you to build up your attack while not allowing open attacks.
No front but that's... not how you succeed these days now is it?
Also you will still run into Hush a lot if not even a Aphelios control deck that has extremely good tools against you.
Also I don't get why you go for the discard theme without any discard payoff...
Sorry but this deck doesn't go anywhere. Riven might be now fringe playable but her Idea will never work out in a Hush meta.
I was exited for the Patch actually expecting to not run into targon in 80% of my games but it was just foolish to think that a 1 mana nerf to Hush would make it any less used / rediculous
Since mf scouts got a pretty big hit the game shifted to a pretty control heavy state, a control state in which targon is still favoured by many players.
Can we just once have a meta without a massive proliferation of silence effects in it? Sure players will play silence all day if it's remotely playable simply because it has such a huge range of possible targets to counter.
Silence is an effect you simply can't properly play around other than not relying on buffs and effects.
This deckbuilding restriction is massive and is the reason why since Hush came into the game the game became less and less interesting to me.
Playing more heavily around certain cards became pointless.
To not get wrecked by hush you MUST resort to a relatively small subset of cards, the cards that that we see right now in the meta.
It is a little bit like Teferi, time reveler a card from mtg that dictated how to build an play the decks viable in standard by hard countering any deck relying on instant speed (fast/burst speed in LoR) spells.
As Swim already said: Hush will almost never trade down even at 3 mana and players will continue running it as a 3 of in any targon deck still and it seems like he was right about that.
Is there really no solution to this issue other than start playing more vanilla cards/etb cards?
He is on tf powerlevel and we know how busted tf is.
He stands just like tf for massive card advantage and given how good his tools are to slow down the game its no wonder that we currently have one big targon control fest in Runeterra.
A stat buff doesn't make Riven much more viable.
Instead I would even take away 1 health and make her level up now double every attack buff not only her 1st each round.
This way she becomes super dangerous right on the turn she comes down and makes her more conparable to Zed
Or instead you could give the leveled up Riven "whenever my attack gets increased for the first time each round give me challenger this round and double the attack gained"
It is the only exploit I know of at least. Something one should maybe address is the fact that damage dealt by a jungle invade (no matter if you use it or your opponent) counts as noncombat damage so that Swain levels in this mode all the time without even using a single burn spell but that is not really an exploit, more of a mechanical issue that should be fixed
I don't know why all I wrote was deleted but lets try again then^^
So for those who don't know what the Jungle lab is about: both players have a jungle monster on their side of the field which is vulnerable and immobile. Killing it grants you very powerful Spells- the buffs.
The problem with Spell Thief here is that you can steal Jungle buffs that your opponent played and paying 1 mana to steal a 0 mana jungle buff that is worth about 5-12 mana is pretty unfair and basically punishes your opponent for playing the game.
Therefore I think Riot should eighter block the steal of buffs or remove spellthief from the game mode simply because it is way too powerful for 1 mana
The points you bring up are certainly true, yes we have way less noobs in the game so we will have less free wins.
Nonetheless games became way less predictable for both players in order to "spice it up".
You have way more often the situation that: Playing card x might be good here but gets wrecked if my opponent has y. If I don't play x my opponent play z and screw me and where it comes down to spraying and praying my opponent hasn't y or z because I simply can't counter y/z-outcome with the deck I play.
while this is business as usual in card games I think Hush goes too far with this concept because it can't be countered, is 2 mana can only be made harder to resolve with Bastion which is also only available to targon. The only way to actually counter this card to play a deck that doesn't care about silence.
Decks that don't care about Hush have to use: only small sized buffs and units that do not rely on effects other than etb effects and looking at the meta this is EXACTLY what we see in the meta right now.
And about the landmark thing: I already said that Aftershock is perfectly fine as a landmark answer even out of landmark matchups, although it gets you behind mana-wise when used against a grand plazaBADCARDNAME.
Scorched Earth is not very desirable to noxus decks that would not use noxian guillutineBADCARDNAME anyways, which is pretty much only noxus control. Killing an injured enemy minion for 3 is just way more narrow than it looks (otherwise Ravenous Flock was a go to card for any noxus card).
Landmarks actually only create complex situations in mulligan, not in play.
If you have randmark removal in your deck because you can't say for sure if your opponent will have a landmark in deck/hand and how many landmark answer will be needed and having too many copies of landmark removal almost always hurts you.
It is unlikely to get to draw the second landmark removals during a game and almost impossible to get to draw the third copy of landmark removal unless you run 2 different kinds of landmark removal which hardly fits any deck.
If you don't have have landmark removal at all in your deck you just can spray and pray they don't find it in time.
If you don't have have landmark removal in hand but removal in your deck you don't full mulligan unless the game literally comes down to wether a landmark copy sticks in play or not and again just try to start well and prey and spray.
Overall spraying and preying became way more usual in LoR and and that is what I dislike in the end.
Now this should actually be the Viktor enabler we waited for, sure it was meant for Aphelios but with the moon-weapon-theme combined augment should finally shine
Aside of Tf go hard and and Tk soraka we only have inconsistant highroll achetypes on this list... what a great meta that we are in right now
I know I proably should open an new threat for the following topic but I'm too lazy to do...
I don't know how you feel about the game but I am quite unhappy how the game feels to play.
The regions I like the most Noxus(of cause) Freljord(frostbite-midrange) and P&Z(Heimerdinger)aren't doing that well and overall I see a lot of targon played.
I still don't like targon as a region and especially I still don't like Hush and the concept of silence in general.
Players complained a lot about Hush as it came out and tbh its feels as toxic of a mechanic as it was when it came out.
Sure, its now limited to 1 target but that is enough to screw over decks that play around buffs or certain effects and that it is just 2 mana at burst speed... its a real feel bad card that can decide games by screwing 1 large unit up or jam an effect that would stop you. Silencing is proably the main reason for targon's popularity aside of Zoe and her highroll potential.
Also I feel bad about landmarks making it into tier decks now. Landmark removal is still narrow and the cards that deal with landmarks usually suck in non landmark matchups (with the exeption of aftershock and divergent paths).
As swim already ranted, landmarks are very rng cards because they have to be broken if you draw exactly 1 copy and play it on curve because otherwise they are pointless and won't see play.
Landmarks suck if you draw multiples, landmarks need several turns to become worth it so drawing them late is terrible not to mention the fact that landmarks are play-around-cards that influence the deckbuilding significantly and therefore make your deck relient on getting them early.
Short: the concept of landmarks is terrible and the best way for riot to deal with landmarks is to rework them, giving them a replacement card if you have already a copy of them in play, and shift some of their ongoing power to immediate power so they are way less rng and healthier design.
In general I wonder if it is just me or that games became a lot less predictable and rng heavier, and therefore less strategic since call of the mountain? It feels like it and it feels bad to me. I once had 70%-80% winrate now we are talking way closer to 50% without me getting worse at the game...
A card that I think could use a nerf although not being that obvious of a nerf candidate is Doombeast. It is essentially the Lifedrinker of Runeterra and goes in pretty much every single SI deck because it combines a solid body, heal and burn in a 3 mana unit... which is just very good. Runeterra's philosophy that every card should have it's own niche while no card should be autoinclude doesn't fit that well with Doombeast so I would change the burn effect from drain to simply burn to keep it's aggressive nature while tuning it down decently
You haven't seen such a strategy because it is by design inconsiatsnt and has many flaws.
Why would you go the noxus route with survival skills if you instead could go with demacia For Demacia! going wide. Noxus isn't good at going wide and especially not going wide and big at the same time a deck like you have in mind would need several turns to build such a board and if you use survival skills on turn 8 its not that great anymore (especially if your opponent answers it with a ruination)
These are some pretty cool designs.
Especially the poro tower is cute and would not mind if these cards were actually playable cards for friendly matches.
Of cause they aren't viable but that is not the idea of them anyways
That this card is the only decent card out of the new released noxus theme is quite telling and sad.
I mean it is only consequent that a build around mechanics like reforge only can be eighter good in general or suck in general with all cards sharing the same fate no matter if they are better than the other reforge cards.
Lets see if riot agrees with me and if so they should buff the runescar mageBADCARDNAME to a 3/2 statline and the finished sword to also grant 2 life
The fact that this card is slow speed and doesn't protect from kill abilities makes it bad in any deck imaginable.
Even if you use it for the discard part you will be very underwhelmed of the limited ways to use this.
At first the card seemed neat but the reality is it sucks... hard.
The only way that this card can make it is by reducing the cost to 4 mana and make it fast speed.
Thats exactly what I thought. From a lore standpoint it makes a lot more sense for the Mechanized Mimic which like Viktor puts FUNCTION OVER FORM to be an unappealing scary abbomination instead of a chick with way too many grafts.
Anyways attractive forms sell better I guess
I think the biggest issue with Riven is her all-inn nature where you buff her to 12+ attack with ease but get blown out by a stunn/frostbite in response. Also the issue with Riven decks is, she gets a lot weaker when drawn later on. Overall there aren't that many uses for her Sword so that the all in character of the deck gets even worse. The top decks of the current meta (although it certainly will change lot i think) don't mind if they don't draw their key cards, they just work WAY better if they do. Without a second decent user for the reforged blade, the Riven decks will stay bad just because their gameplan is too unreliable and fragile.