Giving shaman a little bit of his mojo back would be awesome
Yes to this, but no to your suggestion of how to do it. Invocation of Frost is the best candidate that would keep that deck from getting out of control again.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 4 years, 10 months ago
Phase Stalker and Lesser Emerald Spellstone don't work together. You can't upgrade your Spellstone if you Phase Stalk your secrets out. If you're going Even Hunter, you're typically going for a more aggro package. The Spellstone at 6 mana is too slow for your game plan, especially if you're only getting 2 3/3 wolves from it.
I would argue Lesser Emerald Spellstone is better at 5 mana, as then it makes it viable for Spell Hunter again. That card was designed with Spell Hunter in mind. It's in the same set as all the Spell Hunter cards.
Spell Hunter needs this at 5 mana. Even Hunter has better cards for their game plan.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 4 years, 10 months ago
Yeah, that's exactly why I was reluctant to put it on my prediction list. I think it would be really bad for the health of Wild for that deck to return. I would be fine with an experiment where they unnerf it, and then a few months later nerf it again! My golden copy of Raza would not complain at all. :)
Raiding Party - This alone will not bring back Kingsbane, that was dependent on Leeching Poison. This would be fine back at 3 mana, especially with the Preparation nerf that hit at the exact same time. I always felt they should have left this card untouched and should have waited to see what the effect of the Preparation nerf would have first.
Extra Arms - this was fine at 2 mana in Wild while it lasted. This will be the first card that was buffed, nerfed and then buffed again.
Year of the Dragon:
Invocation of Frost - Shaman deserved the hammer, but the hammer may have hit too hard. With both Spirit of the Frog and Zentimo rotating, there is no need for this to be at 2 mana anymore in Standard, and Wild can handle it at 1 mana. Shaman needs to be thrown a bone going into the new year as well after the DoD debacle.
The reason that I decided to change the cost to 4 was to avoid creating infinite turns by making it unable to copy itself.
Am I missing something?
I see what he's saying. Time Warp itself costs (5). Even if you can't go infinite from copying Presence of Mind, you could still make 2 additional copies of Time Warp. Honestly I don't see this being anymore of a problem than Archmage Vargoth into Time Warp.
The issues with Time Warp and Mage in Wild are already something being "watched" by Blizzard. I'd say don't worry about Wild interactions too much.
Considering changing the cost to 4 or 6 to avoid infinite loops with two of this card and Time Warp in hand.
Would this be too strong at 4?
Very good point about infinite loops. Though not sure how useful that would be. It's not really a win condition to copy big spells in your hand, and you still need the mana available to use all those big spells you are generating. Not to mention hand size also being a limiting factor.
I don't think this would be too strong at 4. Powerful, yes, but I think acceptable. Since it is only copying spells that cost 5 or more, you still need the mana available to use those spells.
I realy don't get why so many players want to see Divine Spirit to go to the Hall of Fame. I mean i haven't seen that card in play for almost a year now .... at least not since the release of DoD - so i do not see a problem - or am i missing something?
Simply because of future cards and what this card would do? maybe i'm a little sentimental about that card because Priest was my first golden Hero and is my favourite class and maybe that's why i do not see this as a problem.
So far i have no idea which card should be Hof`D ... maybe Backstab - i have to think about that a little :)
Combo Priest was a T1 deck just recently during SoU. That deck was about abusing the Divine Spirit/Inner Fire combo.
The problem is it is the only win condition for Priest, and one that has existed since Vanilla. Not to mention the restrictions to card design that this card creates.
This might be one of those years we dont see any cards being HoF. The meta is healthy, and there's no card that truly deserves the boot to wild.
A few arguments against some entries some have entered;
- Edwin VanCleef - Its an all or nothing card for rogue. Its not played easily without risks, and is always under threat of silences and saps. I just dont think its ever an insurmountable problem. It may occasionally be a cheap win, but only if you get the best hand for it, and I think its generally agreed that if you get the best hand possible, you are in a good position to win anyway.
When it comes to VanCleef, I don't have any problem with him mechanics wise, but the problem lies in how many Rogue decks he is used in and the fact that he is part of the Evergreen set. Just look at HSReplay... at this moment as I'm typing, he is in 15.9% of decks, which makes him the 10th most popular legendary card at this time. The next highest Classic class Legendary is Cenarius in 2.5% of decks. And before Quest Druid came along in SoU, when was the last time you saw Cenarius getting used? None of the other Classic set Class Legendaries are above 1.0% representation. The Classic Class Legendary cards are supposed to be situational at best, popping up in the meta every now and then. When it comes to Edwin VanCleef, he's become a staple that just gets put into almost any Rogue deck. I feel Edwin VanCleef goes against their philosophy for the power level that they want the Classic set to be, thus I think it's time for him to get sent to the HoF to freshen up Rogues in standard.
I don't say this lightly, I love Edwin VanCleef, and I will miss him and still play the shit out of him in Wild, but I really think it's time for something different.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 4 years, 10 months ago
I don't think we are going to be seeing anything on the level of a "Hearthstone 2.0". Honestly the UI is overall solid, and any improvements could easily be implemented without a whole "Hearthstone 2.0" rebranding. Hearthstone isn't a dying game (contrary to what some people say), it is the leading CCG, everyone else is trying to de-throne it. So there is really no need at this point for a 2.0 rebranding.
I know this idea comes from Heroes of the Storm 2.0, which was honestly Blizzard's last ditch effort to save that game. Hearthstone isn't in need of that. Any rebranding is already done every HS year with the themes, and 3 times a year with each expansion.
TL;DR - I wouldn't worry about losing your collection.
As for your second thoughts about Battlegrounds, it will be interesting to see how/if they monetize Battlegrounds. I'm assuming they are keeping track of how many new players are being drawn in because of battlegrounds, and if those new battlerground players are then trying out the rest of the game. They already have small perks built into battlegrounds for opening DoD packs. I'm assuming they will continue to do stuff like that to encourage the battleground players to venture into the constructed/collection building side of the game.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 4 years, 10 months ago
Gadgetzan was a failure of an expansion in my opinion, and I would not want to see anything Gadgetzan related or Tri-class related again. There are soooo many other towns they could do new unique expansions of before ever having to think about revisiting Gadgetzan.
Also, Gadgetzan meta is one of my top 3 least favorite metas of all time in HS history. MSoG Jade Druid and Pirate Warrior are two decks that I can feel the anger boiling under my skin when I think about. I came very close to quitting the game during that xpac. Ungoro saved the game from that terrible expansion.
But I respect your opinion and desire for more Gadgetzan. That's one great thing about this game, each expansion doesn't have to cater to all players. The expansions have had enough variety in them, that just about everyone can find an expansion that has a flavor they love. Just voicing my own opinion on Gadgetzan as I assume there are others who would agree.
They blew up all their cool villains! And maybe the League of Explorers as well!
Let's see what this year's storyline has in store for the players
(I'm always hoping for more Gadgetzan)
I don't think anyone actually got blown up.
In my mind, Hearthstone is a place to tell stories. The expansions are each just a story. This means everything that happens in HS is not canon in WoW.
Look at Gadgetzan for example. Gadgetzan in WoW is NOTHING like Gadgetzan in HS. The whole idea of that expansion, was imagining Gadgetzan years later, and how the city would develop. This is not canon to the WoW universe. You can still go to Gadgetzan in WoW, and it is still just a few huts and goblins, instead of a crime filled metropolis that HS made it out to be.
Sure HS has had it's effect on the WoW lore. Tortollans and even the League of Explorers all exist in WoW now because they were well received in HS.
But I think it's safe to say, that none of the characters that were "blown up" at the end are actually dead. Furthermore, the story ends with 2 different endings (Explorers and EVIL), it would be impossible to make the story canon to the WoW universe with 2 separate endings. The fact that there are 2 endings to this story, further proves that the stories told in HS are just that... stories.
Also look at the Galakronds Awakening trailer. Rafaam and Reno are doing a puppet show trying to tell how their story ends. Would make no sense for this entire trailer to occur if everything that happened in the story was actually happening.
What implications does this have on Reno being a Dragon? That is up to Blizzard to decide what to do now. They could decide to make this canon, and write in Reno as a Dragon Aspect in the WoW universe. Or, they can simply ignore it and chalk it up to Reno having a big imagination and telling a fun story!
Personally, I think HS is better if they are just stories and not canon to the WoW universe. This allows the HS team to just focus on telling a good story, instead of worrying about if it matches up with WoW lore. Trying to keep WoW lore straight has already turned into a mess for WoW, and severely limits the storytelling they are able to do in WoW now days. I say, don't let HS fall into that same trap.
That being said, they totally need to write in Reno as a Dragon Aspect into the WoW lore. That needs to be real and not just made up for a good story.
And to wrap back around to your point now that I've finished my rant... the league of EVIL and LoE could very well make a return to HS one day. They weren't actually blown up, it was just a story. And our favorite villians and heroes could easily return to tell us another story some day.
I think hall of fame prediction threads should be banned, or at least have their own category in the forum so we don't have to see them. They alwasy offer up the same cards, with the same sub-par reasoning.
If you don't like them, then don't click the link, and don't add your completely useless 2-cents to the conversation. The thread was meant to start a discussion and theorize what changes might be coming. If you don't like someone's "sub-par reasoning" then add something to the discussion instead of trying to derail the discussion by being insulting.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it needs to be banned. You have the option to not read it.
Hello all, first post on this site, looking for advice on balancing the following:
Show Spoiler
First off! Welcome to OOC! And secondly welcome to the WCDC (Weekly Card Design Competition)!
I like your idea with this card. I would agree with what DescentOfDragonsOp said. A drop to 6-mana should be fine. Since the card doesn't reduce the cost of the cards, Mage will have a hard time playing all of the copies that are created. Because of this, 6-mana is more than acceptable. You will already be losing an entire turn of tempo just to copy all your big spells. I might even say 5-mana would be even better. I'm looking at Hunting Party which has a similar effect.
Edwin VanCleef - it's time for Rogue to stop being able to steal wins with an early Edwin. This card is used in too many Rogue decks, and I feel a change is needed to keep things fresh.
Leeroy Jenkins - I'm torn about this. Leeroy I have a love/hate relationship with. Having a Charge minion for an aggro finisher is important to the health of the meta. But really, how many more years are we going to be able to put up with hearing "Leeeeroy Jenkins!!!" right before we die? It's a classic card, with amazing flavor. I appreciate everything this card is... but I think it's time to send him out of Standard.
Why are you posting Runaterra SS on a Hearthstone - Hearthstone General Thread?
where else would I post it? This is the only salt thread. If you feel like it doesn't belong here, please report it.
Actually sparks a good debate for the site. Would it be better to move the Salt Thread into a general "all-games" forum (Maybe in the Off Topic section?) so all the salty venting therapy gets funneled into one forum, or should each game get it's own Salt Thread?
Any thoughts on this? Is it even useful? I like the idea of copying the hero, getting to play with heros you might not have. It'd also change how thief rogue synergy stuff works. Something like Vendetta would now trigger it's own discount. Your discover effects would also change to your opponent's class.
Should I change it to 'Copy your opponent's class, Hero and Hero Power'? Or is that redundant?
Would probably be best to put it on a minion so it isn't a completely dead card in mirror matches. Besides that, I love the idea
Good point. I went with a spell because I wanted the flavor of your hero putting on a mask, not a minion. I'll take your criticism though, maybe there is some way I can make this spell useful in the mirror, with another effect of some kind. Maybe by making it 0 mana, it'd be an easy Auctioneer trigger? The effect is incredibly weak as it is (compare to renounce darkness and the card discount, which is another thing i considered)
Maybe make it summon a Wisp if you are already the same hero? Make it 0 mana so it's just a 0 mana summon a Wisp in mirror matches, or for the 2nd copy in the deck if you choose to run 2 of them.
Not sure the best way to word that... Something like "If your hero and hero power are the same, summon a 1/1 Wisp."
God please no... to the sea witch
Yes please to the tutu!! ;)
Yes to this, but no to your suggestion of how to do it. Invocation of Frost is the best candidate that would keep that deck from getting out of control again.
No.
Phase Stalker and Lesser Emerald Spellstone don't work together. You can't upgrade your Spellstone if you Phase Stalk your secrets out. If you're going Even Hunter, you're typically going for a more aggro package. The Spellstone at 6 mana is too slow for your game plan, especially if you're only getting 2 3/3 wolves from it.
I would argue Lesser Emerald Spellstone is better at 5 mana, as then it makes it viable for Spell Hunter again. That card was designed with Spell Hunter in mind. It's in the same set as all the Spell Hunter cards.
Spell Hunter needs this at 5 mana. Even Hunter has better cards for their game plan.
Yeah, that's exactly why I was reluctant to put it on my prediction list. I think it would be really bad for the health of Wild for that deck to return. I would be fine with an experiment where they unnerf it, and then a few months later nerf it again! My golden copy of Raza would not complain at all. :)
Oh man! Let the speculation begin! And also memory test...
Wild:
Yogg-Saron, Hope's End - Honestly, if this isn't reverted, there might be riots.
Emerald Spellstone - I understand why they nerfed it, but I felt like they did that too late. Bring back Spell Hunter in Wild!
Call of the Wild - This is more wishful thinking, but I really think Wild would be fine with this back at 8 mana
Raza the Chained - not sure how I feel about this, but I think it's going to happen. At least I just got a Golden Raza from that wild bundle!
Spiteful Summoner - not 100% on this one, but it's the only one I could find that I feel has a chance
Year of the Raven:
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius - was perfectly fine in Wild at 7 mana.
Reckless Experimenter - this one is obvious. The nerf is literally pointless now.
Raiding Party - This alone will not bring back Kingsbane, that was dependent on Leeching Poison. This would be fine back at 3 mana, especially with the Preparation nerf that hit at the exact same time. I always felt they should have left this card untouched and should have waited to see what the effect of the Preparation nerf would have first.
Extra Arms - this was fine at 2 mana in Wild while it lasted. This will be the first card that was buffed, nerfed and then buffed again.
Year of the Dragon:
Invocation of Frost - Shaman deserved the hammer, but the hammer may have hit too hard. With both Spirit of the Frog and Zentimo rotating, there is no need for this to be at 2 mana anymore in Standard, and Wild can handle it at 1 mana. Shaman needs to be thrown a bone going into the new year as well after the DoD debacle.
I see what he's saying. Time Warp itself costs (5). Even if you can't go infinite from copying Presence of Mind, you could still make 2 additional copies of Time Warp. Honestly I don't see this being anymore of a problem than Archmage Vargoth into Time Warp.
The issues with Time Warp and Mage in Wild are already something being "watched" by Blizzard. I'd say don't worry about Wild interactions too much.
Very good point about infinite loops. Though not sure how useful that would be. It's not really a win condition to copy big spells in your hand, and you still need the mana available to use all those big spells you are generating. Not to mention hand size also being a limiting factor.
I don't think this would be too strong at 4. Powerful, yes, but I think acceptable. Since it is only copying spells that cost 5 or more, you still need the mana available to use those spells.
Combo Priest was a T1 deck just recently during SoU. That deck was about abusing the Divine Spirit/Inner Fire combo.
The problem is it is the only win condition for Priest, and one that has existed since Vanilla. Not to mention the restrictions to card design that this card creates.
When it comes to VanCleef, I don't have any problem with him mechanics wise, but the problem lies in how many Rogue decks he is used in and the fact that he is part of the Evergreen set. Just look at HSReplay... at this moment as I'm typing, he is in 15.9% of decks, which makes him the 10th most popular legendary card at this time. The next highest Classic class Legendary is Cenarius in 2.5% of decks. And before Quest Druid came along in SoU, when was the last time you saw Cenarius getting used? None of the other Classic set Class Legendaries are above 1.0% representation. The Classic Class Legendary cards are supposed to be situational at best, popping up in the meta every now and then. When it comes to Edwin VanCleef, he's become a staple that just gets put into almost any Rogue deck. I feel Edwin VanCleef goes against their philosophy for the power level that they want the Classic set to be, thus I think it's time for him to get sent to the HoF to freshen up Rogues in standard.
I don't say this lightly, I love Edwin VanCleef, and I will miss him and still play the shit out of him in Wild, but I really think it's time for something different.
I don't think we are going to be seeing anything on the level of a "Hearthstone 2.0". Honestly the UI is overall solid, and any improvements could easily be implemented without a whole "Hearthstone 2.0" rebranding. Hearthstone isn't a dying game (contrary to what some people say), it is the leading CCG, everyone else is trying to de-throne it. So there is really no need at this point for a 2.0 rebranding.
I know this idea comes from Heroes of the Storm 2.0, which was honestly Blizzard's last ditch effort to save that game. Hearthstone isn't in need of that. Any rebranding is already done every HS year with the themes, and 3 times a year with each expansion.
TL;DR - I wouldn't worry about losing your collection.
As for your second thoughts about Battlegrounds, it will be interesting to see how/if they monetize Battlegrounds. I'm assuming they are keeping track of how many new players are being drawn in because of battlegrounds, and if those new battlerground players are then trying out the rest of the game. They already have small perks built into battlegrounds for opening DoD packs. I'm assuming they will continue to do stuff like that to encourage the battleground players to venture into the constructed/collection building side of the game.
Gadgetzan was a failure of an expansion in my opinion, and I would not want to see anything Gadgetzan related or Tri-class related again. There are soooo many other towns they could do new unique expansions of before ever having to think about revisiting Gadgetzan.
Also, Gadgetzan meta is one of my top 3 least favorite metas of all time in HS history. MSoG Jade Druid and Pirate Warrior are two decks that I can feel the anger boiling under my skin when I think about. I came very close to quitting the game during that xpac. Ungoro saved the game from that terrible expansion.
But I respect your opinion and desire for more Gadgetzan. That's one great thing about this game, each expansion doesn't have to cater to all players. The expansions have had enough variety in them, that just about everyone can find an expansion that has a flavor they love. Just voicing my own opinion on Gadgetzan as I assume there are others who would agree.
I don't think anyone actually got blown up.
In my mind, Hearthstone is a place to tell stories. The expansions are each just a story. This means everything that happens in HS is not canon in WoW.
Look at Gadgetzan for example. Gadgetzan in WoW is NOTHING like Gadgetzan in HS. The whole idea of that expansion, was imagining Gadgetzan years later, and how the city would develop. This is not canon to the WoW universe. You can still go to Gadgetzan in WoW, and it is still just a few huts and goblins, instead of a crime filled metropolis that HS made it out to be.
Sure HS has had it's effect on the WoW lore. Tortollans and even the League of Explorers all exist in WoW now because they were well received in HS.
But I think it's safe to say, that none of the characters that were "blown up" at the end are actually dead. Furthermore, the story ends with 2 different endings (Explorers and EVIL), it would be impossible to make the story canon to the WoW universe with 2 separate endings. The fact that there are 2 endings to this story, further proves that the stories told in HS are just that... stories.
Also look at the Galakronds Awakening trailer. Rafaam and Reno are doing a puppet show trying to tell how their story ends. Would make no sense for this entire trailer to occur if everything that happened in the story was actually happening.
What implications does this have on Reno being a Dragon? That is up to Blizzard to decide what to do now. They could decide to make this canon, and write in Reno as a Dragon Aspect in the WoW universe. Or, they can simply ignore it and chalk it up to Reno having a big imagination and telling a fun story!
Personally, I think HS is better if they are just stories and not canon to the WoW universe. This allows the HS team to just focus on telling a good story, instead of worrying about if it matches up with WoW lore. Trying to keep WoW lore straight has already turned into a mess for WoW, and severely limits the storytelling they are able to do in WoW now days. I say, don't let HS fall into that same trap.
That being said, they totally need to write in Reno as a Dragon Aspect into the WoW lore. That needs to be real and not just made up for a good story.
And to wrap back around to your point now that I've finished my rant... the league of EVIL and LoE could very well make a return to HS one day. They weren't actually blown up, it was just a story. And our favorite villians and heroes could easily return to tell us another story some day.
If you don't like them, then don't click the link, and don't add your completely useless 2-cents to the conversation. The thread was meant to start a discussion and theorize what changes might be coming. If you don't like someone's "sub-par reasoning" then add something to the discussion instead of trying to derail the discussion by being insulting.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it needs to be banned. You have the option to not read it.
First off! Welcome to OOC! And secondly welcome to the WCDC (Weekly Card Design Competition)!
I like your idea with this card. I would agree with what DescentOfDragonsOp said. A drop to 6-mana should be fine. Since the card doesn't reduce the cost of the cards, Mage will have a hard time playing all of the copies that are created. Because of this, 6-mana is more than acceptable. You will already be losing an entire turn of tempo just to copy all your big spells. I might even say 5-mana would be even better. I'm looking at Hunting Party which has a similar effect.
With the new year announcement just around the corner, what are everyone's predictions for which cards get sent to the Hall of Fame this year?
My predictions:
Divine Spirit and/or Inner Fire - this should have happened last year
Edwin VanCleef - it's time for Rogue to stop being able to steal wins with an early Edwin. This card is used in too many Rogue decks, and I feel a change is needed to keep things fresh.
Leeroy Jenkins - I'm torn about this. Leeroy I have a love/hate relationship with. Having a Charge minion for an aggro finisher is important to the health of the meta. But really, how many more years are we going to be able to put up with hearing "Leeeeroy Jenkins!!!" right before we die? It's a classic card, with amazing flavor. I appreciate everything this card is... but I think it's time to send him out of Standard.
Mid-March, so the earliest I'm guessing is next week. My guess is announcement will be on Thursday 3/12.
Good to know! I honestly haven't tried it yet! xD This is just what I threw together when The Amazing Reno was revealed.
Actually sparks a good debate for the site. Would it be better to move the Salt Thread into a general "all-games" forum (Maybe in the Off Topic section?) so all the salty venting therapy gets funneled into one forum, or should each game get it's own Salt Thread?
Maybe make it summon a Wisp if you are already the same hero? Make it 0 mana so it's just a 0 mana summon a Wisp in mirror matches, or for the 2nd copy in the deck if you choose to run 2 of them.
Not sure the best way to word that... Something like "If your hero and hero power are the same, summon a 1/1 Wisp."