Hearthstone's Alec Dawson had some great comments on problematic cards in the current standard meta in today's reddit AMA. Here are the cards possibly being targeted, with an additional 1 or 2 cards of Demon Hunter flavor not yet named.
- Sacrificial Pact isn't fun when it plays a large role in the meta game and seeing more [Hearthstone Card (Jaraxxus) Not Found] would be fun.
- They don't want to kill off Kael'thas Sunstrider's combo potential entirely.
- 1 or 2 cards are likely changing for Demon Hunter.
We know that players have been asking for Sacrifical Pact changes for a long time due to the Jaraxxus interaction. What do you think they may change?
Quote From Alec Hey! We are planning something soon, but here I will shed light on what we are looking at.
With the Year of the Phoenix and Demon Hunter especially, we want to make sure we are active with our approach to balance. There will be additional changes coming shortly that is focused on Demon Hunter, Standard, Wild, and Arena.
For Demon Hunter, we are still monitoring the data as it comes in but expect 1 or 2 cards to see a change. We are thrilled by how players have responded to Demon Hunter, but we want the class to be in a healthy state for years to come. Will be adjusting as we see fit in order to get it into a great spot.
For other standard cards, we are looking at a number of cards including Sacrificial Pact, Bad Luck Albatross, Frenzied Felwing, and Kael'Thas. Some of these cards present some raw power that is just a little too high (Bad Luck Albatross, Frenzied Felwing), while a card like Kael'Thas can create some crazy swing turns but that's usually only fun for one player. Kael'Thas is a super interesting card though so we don't want to kill off his combo potential entirely.
When it comes to Sac Pac, we don't believe it is fun if it plays such a large role in the metagame. That says a lot about where the meta is and your ability to play certain cards. Also, it would be awesome to see more Jaraxxus!
Comments
On the sac pac change I'm more or less neutral on it (but will miss the memes of old).
However, if you think the change will suddenly make Jarraxus consistently playable I'd think again. A 9 mana 'Do nothing' hero that permanently caps you at 15 health has always been a win-more gamble.
There's a reason cards like Alexstrasza or Fireball, for control and aggro/burn effectively, are so good at closing out games on opponents at low health.
I think the sac pac would help, but they should just reclassify it to be a death knight. Then it’d be a good car
The Bad Luck Albatross isn't a shock and neither is Sacrificial Pact. One card all but completely hinders the meta's current major theme by putting two copies of a card in your opponent's deck. The other is a free gain 5 life to kill your opponent's Demon Hunter strategy.
The fact that they nerfed Corridor Creeper should be a foundation of WHY they are looking at Frenzied Felwing. It is going to be hard to not nuke the potential for these three cards without making them totally useless. What I'd like to see if these three are definitely on the chopping block would be:
Albatross increased cost
Pact increases in cost
and Felwing has stats change to 2/3
Anything other than that and I honestly feel like it would render these cards useless.
Kinda surprised but really glad that they're thinking of nerfing Albatross. It seems a relatively innocent card unless you're playing Highlander, but it's actually pretty problematic. Not necessarily because of what it does, but because of the price of including it in your deck. That price being...pretty much nothing. It's such a well-statted card for what's supposed to be a niche hoser that aggressive decks can include it no problem and it doesn't even particularly impede their tempo and strategy. Remember when you had to pay 6 mana for your 4/6 if you wanted a hoser? Or risk giving your opponent a massive minion with an ill-advised Dirty Rat? Albatross laughs at all of that. At worst you get a 3 mana 4/3 which isn't going to set the world on fire but isn't going to lose you the game either. In the better case, you prevent your opponent's key power swings/failsafes, or force them to essentially not draw a card at random at the start of their turn. All for the low low price of having a 4/3 in your deck. Even with relatively mild Highlander presence in Wild, Albatross sees play in Odd decks, some Secret mages, almost all aggro decks (demon hunters, warriors, hunters), highlander decks, slow control decks, Deathrattle decks. It might actually be more concise to list the decks that don't run it. And I honestly have trouble thinking of a deck among those that wouldn't at least consider it (except Res Priest).
Re res priest: there are the spiritual successors to Weasel Tunneler res decks that aim to res the Albatross as many times as possible, so even res priest considers the card.
Not feeling that need for a Sac Pact nerf. It just got back into vogue because demons are everywhere and being played by more than one class, and Lord J (who has pining the bench since Frozen Throne) needs another weakness other than 15 health.
And I'm not even playing warlock at the moment.
I strongly disagree, that Mr. J. needs another weakness beside setting our health to 15. The last time I've played with him was back in RoS and let me tell you, that he was a perfectly fair card. I didn't do anything crazy or game breaking with him. In fact, oftentimes I had difficulties playing him on an empty board and when I did, I lost some games either because the opponent had burst in hand or I didn't have good answers for their next threats.
Now, I won't deny the fact, that warlock gained some fantastic removals since then (plague of flames, dark skies, nether breath, keli'dan etc) and that Leeroy got hof-ed recently, but even w/o Sac Pac Mr. J. feels like a perfectly balanced win-condition. You can overwhelm the opponent with your HP, but that takes time and during that time you are extremely vulnerable to burst and to tempo swings. If you lose board control and can't regain it, you are a goner.
Personally, I can't wait for the nerfs to go live. I am looking forward to playing control warlock in standard. But if you ask me, I don't think people would include that legendary in their decks. There are stronger late-game combos with Betrug and Plot Twist or Galakrond. The latter card can summon 4 demons and equip a 5/2 weapon, if he is fully invoked, and still allow you to do something with the excess mana while not putting your health at risk.
-I knew they were changing Sac Pact, but I thought making it 1-mana would suffice; now I think they may nuke it.
-I think the Albatross is ok, I just hate that I always draw them in the next few turns (yea, I don't play HL neither much card draw).
-Felwing may be ok at 5-mana.
-Kael'thas was always busted. I don't like the card. It may be ok to make just the third spell free and nothing more so they don't change it completely.
-They have to do sth about Priestess of Fury, right?
If they want Lord Jaraxxus to be playable, they have to get rid of the 15 health cap. At this point in Hearthstone, it's just too easy to die at 15.
I understand the Sacrificial Pact change, and it will surely be changed to only kill your own demons, but I'm still bummed because as soon as Warlock reaches the top, they have to smash it back down.
Yeah that's what I just said.
Even back in the days of vanilla HS Jaraxxus was a situational card to play, and that was without the reach of hyper aggresive finishers/aggro we have today. You pretty much have to have a massive taunt or be way ahead on board to even play him. Play him against mage and you could easily be dead in 2 turns, and leaving up 1 or 2 minions against any other class can also easily be game.
The reasons the actual good hero cards saw play is because most of them had extremely powerful battlecries that actually impacted the game right away. Jaraxxus is the opposite of that and even the value he brings is an incredibly 'slow burn' of value. 6/6s without taunt/rush/charge/lifesteal in the late end game really don't mean a whole lot in the HS of 2020.
Do they have a policy on refunding adventure cards?
I don't particularly need the dust/gold anyway, but with felwing this seems like a case of the card's rarity not being representative of the actual price players spent for it.
I agree here - it's one of a few good cards in the adventure you may have factored into your purchasing (money or gold) decision on. Now you'll get the option of 200 dust back.
By all means nerf a relatively new adventure card if it's making the game virtually unplayable - but surely it's not necessary here with so many other nerf candidates around.
If an adventure card gets nerfed, you’ll be able to dust it for it’s full value. From what I can remember, it’s only happened before with Naga and maybe one other card though
It happend with Barnes too - and yes, you can just dust it for the full value.
I'm kinda salty about the Sac Pac change. It's not because it's going to get nerfed, but because it's going to happen only due to the fact, that the devs don't like how the spell acts as a removal against the dh's demons. Imho it should have been changed years ago. It was never fun, when you played Mr. J and then your opponent responded with a single answer and ended the game like that. That "hero card" was the fairest of them all, since playing it made you very vulnerable to an unanswered board/burst, and it deserved way more respect after the hero cards were first introduced.
100% in agreement, it should have been fixed long ago ...
I dont see why they dont just make Lord Jaraxxus a hero card already. Or at least make him immune to sac pact. Its kinda a real old meme at this point.
Changes to Frenzied Felwing is perhaps expected, given that dhunters can legitimately get this out by turn 1 if necessary. I expect them to bump the mana cost by 1 or 2.
Bad Luck Albatross is a counter to highlander. But subtlety its actually a counter to nearly every deck, since many classes now can barely draw cards. I didnt expect anything to be done over this card, but Im glad they're doing something about it.
Just make Kael'thas Sunstrider enable only the first 3rd spell. Its not really going to ruin any combos given that most classes barely have any 0 mana cost spell. Its only truly viable in druid, and team5 should take that as an indicator about that class as a whole.
I think that making Lord J a hero card would be good for the game and not all too confusing for new players because it would it introduce them to hero cards
I'm glad to see Sac Pact changes coming. Not only does it completely spoil the Demon Hunter archetype I was actually excited for (i.e. the Big Demon version), from a WoW flavor point it's pretty silly that you are allowed to use it on enemies - it's supposed to be a way to sacrifice your own demons to heal you.
My guess since they want to preserve Kael’thas’s combo potential, it’s every 4th spell. That or his cost goes to 7 or 8.
As many suggested, Sac Pact could stay as is except make it target friendly’s only.
I’d love to see Jaraxxus be playable, because after 6 years I finally unpacked him (oddly enough he came from the free pack I got when I hit the Jaraxxus rank in the new ladder).
Albatross has me scratching my head though. Is it in too many decks?! What did the expect when introducing a tech card to counter some very powerful cards like Zeph and Dragonqueen?