Hearthstone
Surprisingly bad decks?
Just curious if there are any decks in SoU that you thought were going to be good (or maybe just playable?) before launch that you've experimented with and they were just trash?
I got High Priest Amet so figured i'd give a Boar OTK deck a whirl since it seemed reasonable as a win condition in any otherwise decent Control Priest capacity. Ladies and Gentleman, it is NOT. 2-8 record, and the two wins didn't come from the OTK but just general win against other Control decks. I only got close to the OTK once, but they had two taunts up and I only had oneSilence so no go.
At least I learned my lesson after RR where I crafted a LOT to try and make Dragon Warrior work to no avail so I didn't craft anything on this but still...I get that a 7-card combo isn't the easiest to pull off but dang I didn't think the deck would be THAT bad.
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Just curious if there are any decks in SoU that you thought were going to be good (or maybe just playable?) before launch that you've experimented with and they were just trash?
I got High Priest Amet so figured i'd give a Boar OTK deck a whirl since it seemed reasonable as a win condition in any otherwise decent Control Priest capacity. Ladies and Gentleman, it is NOT. 2-8 record, and the two wins didn't come from the OTK but just general win against other Control decks. I only got close to the OTK once, but they had two taunts up and I only had oneSilence so no go.
At least I learned my lesson after RR where I crafted a LOT to try and make Dragon Warrior work to no avail so I didn't craft anything on this but still...I get that a 7-card combo isn't the easiest to pull off but dang I didn't think the deck would be THAT bad.
What is the list you are running? Did you upload it to OoCards? Or can you share a link? I wouldn't mind giving it a go to see if it can be improved. I'm just sitting at Rank 10 trying a bunch of different things right now, so if it sucks it won't bother me rank-wise!
Quick! Someone give me something clever to write here.
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/6497-amet-boar-otk-priest
There you go. If you have thought I'm happy to hear them but the main issue as above was the OTK Combo need so much it's too slow to pull off either for win or loss.
But yeah this thread wasn't to whine about my bad deck, more to see if anyone else had something fun/good in mind before launch that turned out awful.
It's no trash by any means, but I'm so far a little bit disappointed with Quest Druid. Yet community is experimenting, combining quest with tokens, OTK Malygos and other stuff, so some kind of Quest Druid will probably find decent spot in the meta.
Honestly, with this expansion coming out I think my main thought was on the quests and which quests could be viable. I didn't think much about other decks outside of those or Highlander decks. I felt like Quest Priest was going to be really strong, but haven't seen many people playing it, and also don't have it to try it out myself.
I have seen a few lists for Boar OTK that use it as a way to try and survive, I guess? I was thinking after seeing this post that the best approach might be to try and stick Amet on board and make it a two turn kill so you can use Mass Dispel for taunts. But if your opponent has a brain and figures out what you're planning they'll likely just kill him immediately, or at least damage him. Perhaps with Amet and some Reborn taunts he can stick seeing as the Reborn minions would go to 7 health when they summon instead of 1. Then if Amet took damage use Circle before Dispel and Boar combo.
While I was waiting on your response I started playing around in Wild with Amet and Boars, but eventually swapped Boars for a Dragon package. I also added a Void Ripper since the deck is now more about winning the early and mid game, get some high health minions on board, then Dispel and stat swap for a nice, quick burst. Can still win the old fashioned way of Spirit x 2 > Inner Fire. Don't have a Confuse but I may craft one if the deck seems good without it, just to have an extra stat swap card, and one I can find with Shadow Visions
Thanks for the inspiration at least! If I play around with Boar OTK I'll let you know what I find.
Quick! Someone give me something clever to write here.
you could pull off the same thing with Stormwind Knight since classic and it's never really a combo people play in their deck not even with Shadow Visions
so.. yeah that combo is just MEH it's a combo but it's just too much set up for little consistency.
Just got shat on by the luckiest fucking quest priest ever. Turn 5 he completed his quest.
When I try it, "Nope, fuck you. Have shite draws and face super aggro for 10 games in a row"
Fucking beyond inscenced right now. I literally want to punch that lucky fucking cunt straight in his dumb ass face
OP said "surprisingly bad decks", not "salt thread"...
I'd agree on quest druid and would like to add quest rogue as well. These two quests seemed like the stronger ones but so far haven't exactly been doing well.
That's nuts to complete the quest that fast.
But yeah from what I've seen/played Quest Priest is very much that you either totally dominate or get blown out of the water - very little "middle ground" as it were. But it does seem to be playable so I think generally in line with a lot of people's expectations - not broken/horrible, but not really consistent either. Maybe I should re-title this thread "Priest is meme-tier" lol?
Still though - with all the new-meta experimentation going on, I have to believe there's more "this'll be great" theorycraft out there that's blown up in people's faces?
I've done okay with Quest Rogue - though definitely had a good laugh when I lost to Quest Warrior of all things. But yeah I was *this close* to crafting Druid Quest but the times I played against it I won most of them with Quest Rogue/Shaman/Paladin unless I just drew for shit - so glad I held off on spending dust. So add that one to the pile!
Posts like these should be in the salty thread, not this thread
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I know guys, I didn't mean to be so salty here. Was the first time I even saw the quest and that happened.
Op I am glad you took the correct message from that post 😂. It is literally a steamroll or a get rekt deck with no inbetween.
Combo priest is pretty strong right now, high priest amet is pretty insane.
It's just better to play for tempo and stick something for the combo than try to OTK from hand which is super super slow and not proactive.
I thought quest shaman would be a lot stronger than it is. It's pretty good but I thought it would be a tier 1 deck.
I've played a fair bit of quest priest. It depends on how you build the deck. Completing the quest on turn 5 is not that insane; just look at how much healing is in some of the lists. Sure, it seems insanely lucky when it happens for your opponent, but it's objectively not as insane as, say, quest rogue finishing theirs on turn 3 (when they did the quest turn 1).
Also, I've had some long games that went back and forth, gotten blown out sometimes, and done the blowing out sometimes. But the bottom line is that it can be built a lot of different ways. Just because the version you've been playing is very slow at completing the quest, that does not mean every version is slow.
finley deck doesnt seem great right now.
Not to continue derailing this thread further but, I mean, if he can heal that much through 5 turns.... isn’t that sort of on you? He played the quest so you know what his goal is. The early counter is to not make plays that produce damage without removing targets from the board entirely. Instead conserve resources to make a more concerted push. Priest is the only quest that — with the exception of Wild Pyromancer combos — is utterly reactionary.
ANYWAY... back on topic, given all the fuss, I’ve found Deathrattle/Mechathuun Rogue to be surprisingly inert this expansion. The combo is still technically easy to execute. It’s just that I’ve typically already won by the time it would be viable.
I thought Quest Druid was going to be very powerful, but so far it has just been mediocre at best. it is way to matchup dependant to be a reliable way to climb.
Carrion, my wayward grub.
So far, my expectations on some decks have been failed, but not brutally. Yet.
QRogue and Blood/Lackey Warlock are a bit more inconsistent than i thought, but fair enough.
And about QDruid in particular, i was right when i first saw it and thought: i'm basically asked to waste Tempo for 5 turns in order to regain Tempo later? Pointless!
The effect is still cool, but yeah, unless you use it for some Combo support, Control Druid lacks the tools to go in the long game, and if token is the plan, it's better to do it from the beginning.
I got absolutely destroyed by a Quest Priest running a resurrect package with only 6 minions the other day.
(Edit: 2 copies of 5 Minions + plus Amet so 11 minions actually lmao)
And I agree with the others, Quest Druid isn't as good as I thought. A lot of decks develop a dangerous board so early on that you won't be able to keep up with it trying to complete the quest.
Well it's over
Quest priest was surprisingly bad in the early days, but I think good lists are being figured out, so it's going to be a viable deck going forward, in some form.
Quest Warlock. I knew it was never going to be good because it has such a weak early game, and I knew it was never going to be popular because its so dependent on otherwise-useless legendaries (Supreme Archaeology, Dollmaster Dorian, Arch-Villain Rafaam, and Fel Lord Betrug), however I figured it could compete against slower decks. Drawing an extra card every turn is pretty good, reducing a card to 0 mana is great, and after you play Rafaam, you're usually dropping 2-3 mid-sized legendaries every turn. On paper, that sounds fantastic! In practice, this archetype has miserable statistics against every pretty much everything.
It is still fun to play, though, so at least there's that. :-)
I wonder if quest druid would be better if people did not expect their quests to be done right on turn 5. if maybe you tried harder to secure a board in the early turns, then completed the quest on turn 7-9 and started winning the game using value from your hero power from there. You could focus less on shoving all their choose one cards in their deck, and run a more control package with the quest for some smaller plays. you would focus more on small value plays like Nourish, or Ancient of Lore, and less on giant swing plays like Druid of the Claw, or Oasis Surger.
The main problem with quest druid is that people are playing it like a big tempo deck where they can make big swim turns, but you are not doing much with your first 4 turns. I think playing a slower deck would be better,
Carrion, my wayward grub.
I feel your pain. Happened to me too, the Quest Priest completed it in 5 turns and just steamrolled me from there.
That said, I haven't seen many Quest Priests on ladder. When I do though, they're incredibly hard to win against if you don't manage to rush them down.
The single biggest surprise for me is that a mechanic that theoretically slows down the game for 4-5 turns (Quests) has also coincided with the extinction of aggro decks like Mech Hunter or Murloc Shaman.
I'm not surprised regarding quests because I knew bad quests were going to be bad. I got a lot of hate for pointing them all out on their respective discussion threads but now I get to say "I told you so". You won't believe how personally offended and rude people get when you criticize their favorite cards. It's not my fault Blizzard made your card low power level; I'm just explaining the fact
As for actual decks, bomb warrior is doing surprisingly badly for being a counter to highlander decks. On the other hand, aggro and control warrior are surprisingly powerful and employing some pretty neat cards that I didn't think would go in the respective decks. Everything else is within my expectations (even the murloc invasion and inner fire no-quest priest being mid tier due to how broken Amet and psychopomp are)
In terms of decks that turned out to be surprisingly bad "in this expansion", I would say:
- Bomb Warrior; everyone decried how this would ruin every highlander deck. And that just didnt happen, like at all
- Quest Mage; some people thought this would be strong, some didn't. It turned out not to be. Maybe not a huge surprise, but there we are.
- Mech Hunter; This meta is full of control and Ctrl Warrior in particular is even stronger. Mech Hunter (thankfully) has mostly died a death now.
- Quest Paladin; There were some impressive Theorycrafted decks that simply didn't work out. The deck is surprisingly not as good as hoped, mainly because it runs out of steam too fast and is slow to get going properly
- Any Highkeeper Ra deck; As yet I've still to see this work for any deck consistently. There's a couple of really meme-y versions out there, but they struggle
Making Mummies is amazing. It works well in a Singleton Deck as well although I much prefer my decks to be good at one thing only.
Cocked, locked and ready to rock...
Do you mean the aggressive version built around Goblin Bombs? I prefer playing the slower deathrattle deck using Mechanical Whelp instead and that used to be very good versus Control Warrior. I haven't played it since the expansion release though.
I never expected this to be anything more than a meme. It's actually easier to summon Ra than I thought, but versus aggro it's too slow of a process and versus control it's not a guaranteed win.
The package I'm using is Glinda Crowskin, Grim Rally, Witchwood Piper and Sense Demons. You have to draw Glinda naturally, but the Piper draws the cultist and can itself be tutored as a demon. Plus having that extra draw thins your deck, making it more likely to draw Glinda. You do have to stick Glinda to the board, but with a taunt on the board that wasn't all that hard in practice.
This was at rank 15 Wild shortly after the expansion launched, which is not the most competitive meta; sticking Glinda might be trickier versus try-hard decks. In that case there is still the option to use Expired Merchant and Soulwarden to get more copies of Glinda.
Yeah trying to stick Glinda is often near impossible against most competitive decks unless you're really lucky. And if your deck hinges on that, that's going to be a problem.
I've found the best bet is usually one of the Rogue options.
Nope. My brawl matches yesterday at 8 wins, 10 wins, 11 wins and 11-2 were all mech (bomb) hunters. Ranks 1-2 when I was there a few days ago was full of bomb hunter. Bomb hunters thrash all kinds of mages and other hunters and those are some of the most popular classes out there right now. Bomb hunter is also faring quite well on HSReplay at high tier 2
It's true that their numbers took a dip after the expansion but I'm pretty sure it's only due to their pilots deciding to try out new things for awhile. There's nothing wrong with the deck's power level itself and it counters the meta harder than ever so it's still a stellar ladder choice if a player is so inclined to play for only climbing
Well i personaly thought Secret Mage would be strong again - sure it´s a decent deck but defenitely not as strong as i thought it would be!
I also underestimetad Highlander Decks like Highlander Hunter - i thought this would be Garbage and not that good but it´s doing pretty good!
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Secret Mage is another good one - I also thought it would be stronger than it appears to be, but since's fairly cheap (no really REQUIRED legendaries) it's worth poking around with. I'm actually having more success putting in fewer secrets in exchange for more snyergized minions and normal spells.
I beat Mech Hunters all the time, without a problem, and went 10 wins on the brawl facing mostly people playing that deck.
:-P
But my own anecdotal evidence doesn't account for much, because everyone's experiences with / against different decks will always be varied and specific to them.
(If you get the meaning behind that sentence; saying a deck is good/bad because you did well (or badly) with it isn't really a fair argument)
The point being that I believe the deck is certainly not as strong as it was in the previous meta. Whether it is "bad" or not is mostly down to personal opinion. So while I can say that I think it now is, you can also say you think it isn't. But it's one of those questions that can't really be answered accurately until the meta has had a month or two to settle. :-)
Quest Rogue is not anywhere near what I thought it'd be.
I believe this is actually the correct way to play against the most aggressive decks like Murloc Paladin and Warlock Zoo. The entire bottom half of your deck is removal. Use it to stay alive. Even if it puts off your stabilization turn, you live to get to that turn.
For the most part my predictions about decks were reasonably accurate. Probably the only two I was wrong about would be quest druid and bomb warrior. I expected quest druid to be much stronger, but I think it would only work in specific metas. It's in a weird spot where it's too slow that aggro decks can run it over fairly easily, while it doesn't quite have enough umph to be able to overwhelm slow, controlling decks like control warrior or freeze mage. I put it at tier 2, and right now it's looking more like it will end up in tier 3 unless people figure something out.
Bomb warrior I expected to stay strong and perhaps be even stronger because of it's ability to disrupt highlander decks with its bombs. It's honestly still a reasonably powerful tier 2 deck but just no one is really playing it right now (I guess since control warrior is better).
My predictions were mainly wrong in regards to decks I expected would be bad but ended up actually being good. Quest paladin I thought would be pretty garbage, and while it is pretty weak, it excels against control warrior. I don't think I expected control warrior to be such a big part of the meta, and if that ever dies down, so will quest paladin. I kinda figured highlander mage and hunter would be sorta playable, but didn't expect them to be near the top of the meta.
For the most part though I think everything is reasonably close to where I expected it to be.
Mech hunter is a highly polarized deck, which means one person beating it all the time doesn't really mean anything (in fact, it's to be expected). Its main purpose is to hunt down those mages and slower hunters, which make up a lot of the meta. It also has a stellar winrate against less powerful, but still popular decks like quest druid, quest shaman, zoos and rogues
Power level is an aggregate of a deck's raw power level and it's interaction with the current meta. Mech hunter is a mediocre deck in a vacuum, but it is carried by it's great matchups against popular decks. This makes it a good deck for climbing and that's reflected in its winrate in stats
This is statistics, not anecdotal evidence and these stats are consistent with this deck's winrates and matchups in RoS, meaning it's pretty stable. People can call the meta unsettled or early all they want but the fact of the matter is, the early meta is a meta itself. It probably won't stay this way in the super long term but for now, it exists. Just like during a meta later in an expansion cycle, you can queue a ladder game at high ranks and expect to see decks from the top of the tier list. If you choose decks that counter these, you may be rewarded, which is what mech hunter is at the moment
The one problem with that sentence is that it is missing a vital part. It should read:
Mech hunter is a mediocre deck in a vacuum, but it was carried by it's great matchups against last expansion's popular decks.
And that's why it gets listed in this thread as a currently bad deck. It is no longer any good against most of the popular decks in this current expansion, because they all have too many solid tech tools to deal with it.
Sure, you might eke out a few wins with an off-meta deck that deals with it - but so will any bad deck. The point is that it is no longer a good deck to consider trying to rank up with in comparison with more consistently good decks.
Did you even read my post? Mech hunter is carried by it's great matchups against popular decks in the current meta. I even listed several decks popular right now that mech hunter is good against. Some of which didn't exist in RoS. I'm going to reiterate: giants mages (Reno, dragon, freeze, sandwitch, all tier 2 now), slower hunters (Reno, midrange, secrets, tier 1 and 2 now), quest druids, quest shaman (literally didn't exist last expansion)
If anything, the meta is currently better than mech hunter than it was in RoS
I suppose I could ask the same thing. You don't appear to have read what I wrote there.
I didn't say Mech Hunter was bad against all decks from this expansion. I said it was BETTER against decks from the last one. It will still do ok against slow greedy decks, like Mage, Quest Druid, etc because they take too long to come online. But against the really popular decks of this meta like Control Warrior, it is noticably bad.
Well, I put forth facts supporting that it does better against decks from this expansion. You've responded that the inverse is true without any evidence or new arguments, so I assumed you didn't understand what I was saying
Normally how this goes is you're supposed to explain why my reasoning or facts are wrong ... not just say I'm wrong
As for control warrior, it's not really a big deal. According to the latest VS data report, the popularity of control warrior is 7.5%. Giants-based mages had a net popularity of ~14%. Non mirror hunters had a 10% popularity. Quest shaman 9%; rogues 10.5%; quest druids 6.7; zoo 5.5% (all of these are good matchups). Even if you lose all your control warrior games, you've got a whole load of good ones that more than make up for it
In a thread that asks for opinion-based responses detailing what each person thinks about a how decks have been faring, none of that really makes any difference or is especially relevant to the question.
That was actually the original point I was tying to make in my second post, in fact - that it doesn't matter what other people's personal feelings about the deck are. And there certainly hasn't been long enough of this new meta for any statistical analysis to bear much weight. You'd need a good month or two for that.
The core question was what decks do you think are surprisingly bad this expansion. Mech Hunter falls into that category for me.
It has definitely been surprisingly bad so far.
A lot of people are saying they are disappointed in quest druid, I would have agreed burn then I started playing Kripparian’s quest druid decklist and it is so good. Outlasts any control warrior, bets all midrange.. just needs to survive the aggro decks. I run his list but -1 overflow/ +1 chef Nomi. I can pull up to four chef nomi’s at times.
the goal is to stay in control of the board, not to finish the quest. Sometimes I don’t finish the quest until around turn 7 or 8. It’s a pretty good deck. I’m not a pro at hearthstone but it got me 11 wins in tavern brawl. And 10 wins twice
Quest Paladin is still doing pretty well imo, wouldn't count it out yet.
Gosh dang it, cards bad.
True, pretty good against Warriors - defenitely not a weak deck
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Not a bad deck, but I think bomb warrior is criminally underplayed right now. Everyone already knows bombs shit on highlader decks but bombs also shit on Prismatic Lens and Tortollan Pilgrim to an extent. They also stop freeze mages from drawing too hard, minimizing pocket galaxy value if not played very early. I'm 68% wr with it in dumpster legend