I think we're kind of talking across purposes here. You seem to be arguing that it's not a big deal because you might have never drawn the card anyway, and that they're effectively random cards for your opponent. On those points, I mostly agree, with one major caveat.The cards they steal may have no meaningful synergies with their decks, but they're better than random because you put them in your deck, so they're most like getting "good random" cards, with the upshot of potentially denying you something important.
No, they are better then random. Now that i think about it, they are even worse then random unless its a mirror match. Why? Because followers in this game have a role in the deck they are fit in. The game is balanced enough units are not being played for their stats/curve ratio. A unit that is good enough to see play in a given deck, won't usually see play in other decks unless its fullfilling the same role. Take a burn deck as an example. If you could pick, which cards would you steal from their deck? 90% of their cards are actually garbage for your gameplan. They work very well for their strategy but not for yours. Worse then random, as random cards may actually give you a shot to some counters. This isn't hearthstone, were there is so much imbalance/power creep that minions like Sylvanas/Ragnaros/Piloted Shredder/etc are so much better then everything else that fit just fine in any deck.
Disruption is good/healthy for CCGs, but disruption that also generates card advantage should be very limited/very expensive. Comparing to Hearthstone, while there are a variety of ways to waste or destroy combo tools your opponent is using, there's basically no card theft in the game. Even in the classes which can "steal," they get copies of their opponent's cards. This is because, regardless of its impact statistically on the game, it feels really bad for the player whose cards get stolen.
Entomb, Mind Control, Shadow Madness [Hearthstone Card (Cabal ShadowPriest) Not Found] [Hearthstone Card (Sylvanas) Not Found] can steal cards from play, while there is a few that can burn directly from the deck. If both effects already exists in the game, why the combination of the 2 is a problem?
Some reasons this is so frustrating to me:
Card draw in Runeterra is quite limited. A lot of cards that draw do not generate meaningful card advantage because they're just cantrips (e.g. Avarosan Sentry), and the ones that do are generally expensive, around a "4 mana draw 2" going rate. So, these klepto cards are some of the most efficient ways to generate card advantage, and the fact that they're probably "good random" cards as far as your opponent is concerned makes them very valuable. The result is a sense that your opponent is often better at drawing cards from you than you are, which feels pretty bad
There are strategies for which the "imagine these are the bottom cards of the deck" really breaks down. For example, Freljord has ways to put Yetis on top of your deck and buff cards near the top of your deck. These strategies generally involve playing weaker units/expensive spells up front for those future payoffs. It's a major part of the Freljord identity, and stealing from the top of the deck is uniquely punishing for those strategies.
It just feels really bad to see your opponent get your strong cards and know that you can't get them. This is true even if it's not statistically significant in terms of your win rates against klepto decks. It's probably very fun for the klepto deck, and can make for an interesting gameplay puzzle to solve on their end, but that spike in the klepto player's happiness is mirrored by a massive drop in the happiness of the player from whom they stole cards.
1- Maybe you are not used to play the card yourself. Activating plunder is manageble but not free. It usually has to be played in combination with other cards so it has an "extra" cost. Sometimes it will just not be possible to plunder and its a dead card, other times when you do plunder, might be a thought decision to either contest the board or play the card. And its much harder to plunder when defending. There are so many potencial downsides not to mention thats no guarantee what you get is even usefull.
2- I agree but i don't see a problem with this card being a counter against it. Freljord also have Ashe and Warmother, stealing from those decks is quite bad.
3- Why it feels bad my friend. Its part of the game. It won't occur everytime, and when that happens, its his time to have fun. Don't give up and show him you can play whats left from your deck better then he does. Its not like you lost already, man up and fight!
In my first games they always seem to ban Fist of Jaraxxus , but it´s true, that it´s a big problem if they start to ban Soulfire . As Hydrafrog below suggested, possible out is The Soularium , but then there is huge risk of overdrawing and getting to fatigue real quick if you end up with full hand of Hand of Gul'dan so it didn´t really work for me :/
I second this. Your fear of people putting too much emphasis on the description is understandable but I don't think it will be a big issue. It's still up to the voters to decide if they read it or not and up to the creators if they add one or not.
If Xarkkal doesn't mind I'd also like to add my suggestion of a preview and / or confirmation tool to the submission site to this thread. This would prevent submission accidents like we already have two of this week. Alternatively, you could allow each user to delete their entry and re-submit once every competition as a way of correcting errors. Editing is naturally out of the question as the submissions are immediately up to the vote.
i don’t know about others, but i pretty much never disenchant cards i don’t have two of. who knows what whacky fun decks you’ll be able to create down the line? in fact, i even go so far as to not dust even a packfiller Minion. you never know...
Around Old Gods I realized my "dust whatever" strategy so I could craft what I wanted was not a good one, and since then only dust really REALLY bad cards, duplicates, and golden cards (with a few exceptions) since I don't care about the flashy cosmetic flair they bring.
1) I only dust golden Legendary cards if it's a legendary I don't want and I need the dust to craft a regular legendary I do want. If it's a legendary I want to use, or might have use for from time to time, I keep it. 2) I keep golden copies of a Common, Rare, or Epiic card if I don't have two regular copies. But once I do have two regulars, the golden gets dusted.
The other is of course golden Basic cards, because you can't dust them. But yeah, I kind of dusted anything I felt I didn't want/wouldn't use in the early days of the game and was on a right F2P budget. But later I regretted some of those DE's and took a few years to get a lot of the cards back. Now that I've been doing regular pre-orders since Frozen Throne I feel like I've got most of what I want, despite having some big gaps in a few sets still.
We don't have any laid-down plans yet for how we will proceed with Season 2 and beyond, but everything is up for discussion! We like that this idea can help reestablish and maintain context with your entries, but it also kind of forces people to actually use the description box whether they want to or not. It could place a lot more relevance on the description than there should be; we want you to focus on the cards, not the essays written about them lol
But again, nothing is off the table. We can see both sides of the argument, and we'll discuss it and report back when it's time.
I made the mistake a couple years ago of dusting many of my wild cards. At the time my interest was only playing standard. Now I am finding I really enjoy wild and wish I hadn't dusting anything. Because interests may change over time, I would advise folks not to dust anything.
This is actually why I have never dusted any of my Wild cards except for the likes of Duskfallen Aviana, Harbinger Celestia and other cards on their level of bad. I used to do this without any issue when they rotated because I figured I'd never open another pack from a Wild set as they were in the online store only. When they made Wild packs available to buy with gold I thought I'd hold on to all of them as I might want to buy some Wild packs. But now with the new rules for rarity protection I went in and DE'd several bad Legendaries.
But overall, very happy that I kept a lot of my Wild cards. Despite the ridiculously high level of power in some Wild decks, as more and more cards go Wild I find it to be a lot of fun to play old archetypes with some new cards, it's like visiting old friends. Just yesterday I made a Tempo Dragon Warrior and I climbed lower Platinum ranks to P5 pretty quick. Even beat a Token Druid, which in Wild can be VERY aggressive and win quick!
that makes a lot of sense. much better to have a little extra text (which can be put into spoilers, so not even that) during the final vote Than potentially making a card lose unfairly because of lack of context
Based on your suggestion I made this new version of the card. Now it can be used offensively to let your 5+ Attack minions rush down your opponent's board (but with the downside of potentially letting them hit back with 5+ Attack minions of their own) or it can be used defensively to give your big minions Taunt, with the downside that it might block you from attacking their face. Since it's an aura, you can choose when to kill it off to stop the effect, and your opponent can kill it with a spell to potentially get through your taunts.
Do you think it's too weak and should have 4 Health, or would that be too much?
I actually didn't ban the scroll. I saw the scroll, Y'shaarj, and Marin. I decided that those cards are all so bad that he must have an actual good card that I can't see, so I banned Nefarian. It didn't matter though because the only spell he cast was Magic Trick and then Simulacrum.
My opponent was playing Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound, Marin the Fox, Nefarian, and Shifting Scroll. So yeah, that was a pretty easy win. They also said "woops" for just about the entire game except for the turn before they died when they said "greetings".
The Klepto cards are super frustrating
Was editing my post and it disappeared somehow... sigh
The Klepto cards are super frustrating
No, they are better then random. Now that i think about it, they are even worse then random unless its a mirror match.
Why? Because followers in this game have a role in the deck they are fit in. The game is balanced enough units are not being played for their stats/curve ratio. A unit that is good enough to see play in a given deck, won't usually see play in other decks unless its fullfilling the same role.
Take a burn deck as an example. If you could pick, which cards would you steal from their deck? 90% of their cards are actually garbage for your gameplan. They work very well for their strategy but not for yours. Worse then random, as random cards may actually give you a shot to some counters.
This isn't hearthstone, were there is so much imbalance/power creep that minions like Sylvanas/Ragnaros/Piloted Shredder/etc are so much better then everything else that fit just fine in any deck.
Entomb, Mind Control, Shadow Madness [Hearthstone Card (Cabal ShadowPriest) Not Found] [Hearthstone Card (Sylvanas) Not Found] can steal cards from play, while there is a few that can burn directly from the deck.
If both effects already exists in the game, why the combination of the 2 is a problem?
1- Maybe you are not used to play the card yourself. Activating plunder is manageble but not free. It usually has to be played in combination with other cards so it has an "extra" cost. Sometimes it will just not be possible to plunder and its a dead card, other times when you do plunder, might be a thought decision to either contest the board or play the card. And its much harder to plunder when defending. There are so many potencial downsides not to mention thats no guarantee what you get is even usefull.
2- I agree but i don't see a problem with this card being a counter against it. Freljord also have Ashe and Warmother, stealing from those decks is quite bad.
3- Why it feels bad my friend. Its part of the game. It won't occur everytime, and when that happens, its his time to have fun. Don't give up and show him you can play whats left from your deck better then he does. Its not like you lost already, man up and fight!
Two Quests Are Better Than One - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Welcome to the website, and our side of things :D Always cool to see new people!
For your first card it looks pretty good. You're missing a few minor things:
None of those are deal-breakers, though. All-in-all, good work :)
Discolock
On that note... cool.
Two Quests Are Better Than One - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
This is my first card on my first competition. I hope it's good :).
Disenchant trash tier (and other) legendaries?
Get a [second] job, sell your blood/ body, anything else but disenchant your cards is the underlying moral we are trying to convey here
This Week's Hearthstone Tavern Brawl Sees the Return of "Battle of the Bans"
Spell Mage did it for me at first try.
Tavern Brawl · Unknown Mage · by anchorm4n · 6 years, 4 months ago
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Is this a card name or a set as the last guesser thought? Are the number of letters in each word congruent with the answer
Discolock
In my first games they always seem to ban Fist of Jaraxxus , but it´s true, that it´s a big problem if they start to ban Soulfire . As Hydrafrog below suggested, possible out is The Soularium , but then there is huge risk of overdrawing and getting to fatigue real quick if you end up with full hand of Hand of Gul'dan so it didn´t really work for me :/
This Week's Hearthstone Tavern Brawl Sees the Return of "Battle of the Bans"
Disco lock works well, but thinking back to last time freeze mage ended up as the main deck type
Discolock
This deck was my first idea as well but then I realized that if my opponent bans Soulfire, I'm in trouble. Do people just ban something else then?
Discolock
Cool idea, I´ll definitely try that, thank you :) My version is more budget friendly I guess, but with more wild cards.
Discolock
Take out Silverware Golem and put in The Soularium. It gives you draw AND discard
WCDC idea: "Description from the creator" should be visible during the Final Voting stage
I second this. Your fear of people putting too much emphasis on the description is understandable but I don't think it will be a big issue. It's still up to the voters to decide if they read it or not and up to the creators if they add one or not.
If Xarkkal doesn't mind I'd also like to add my suggestion of a preview and / or confirmation tool to the submission site to this thread. This would prevent submission accidents like we already have two of this week. Alternatively, you could allow each user to delete their entry and re-submit once every competition as a way of correcting errors. Editing is naturally out of the question as the submissions are immediately up to the vote.
Outstanding Nautilus Decks for Runeterra's Rising Tides Expansion
It doesn't help that most of them are Epic too.
Disenchant trash tier (and other) legendaries?
Around Old Gods I realized my "dust whatever" strategy so I could craft what I wanted was not a good one, and since then only dust really REALLY bad cards, duplicates, and golden cards (with a few exceptions) since I don't care about the flashy cosmetic flair they bring.
1) I only dust golden Legendary cards if it's a legendary I don't want and I need the dust to craft a regular legendary I do want. If it's a legendary I want to use, or might have use for from time to time, I keep it.
2) I keep golden copies of a Common, Rare, or Epiic card if I don't have two regular copies. But once I do have two regulars, the golden gets dusted.
The other is of course golden Basic cards, because you can't dust them. But yeah, I kind of dusted anything I felt I didn't want/wouldn't use in the early days of the game and was on a right F2P budget. But later I regretted some of those DE's and took a few years to get a lot of the cards back. Now that I've been doing regular pre-orders since Frozen Throne I feel like I've got most of what I want, despite having some big gaps in a few sets still.
WCDC idea: "Description from the creator" should be visible during the Final Voting stage
We don't have any laid-down plans yet for how we will proceed with Season 2 and beyond, but everything is up for discussion! We like that this idea can help reestablish and maintain context with your entries, but it also kind of forces people to actually use the description box whether they want to or not. It could place a lot more relevance on the description than there should be; we want you to focus on the cards, not the essays written about them lol
But again, nothing is off the table. We can see both sides of the argument, and we'll discuss it and report back when it's time.
Disenchant trash tier (and other) legendaries?
This is actually why I have never dusted any of my Wild cards except for the likes of Duskfallen Aviana, Harbinger Celestia and other cards on their level of bad. I used to do this without any issue when they rotated because I figured I'd never open another pack from a Wild set as they were in the online store only. When they made Wild packs available to buy with gold I thought I'd hold on to all of them as I might want to buy some Wild packs. But now with the new rules for rarity protection I went in and DE'd several bad Legendaries.
But overall, very happy that I kept a lot of my Wild cards. Despite the ridiculously high level of power in some Wild decks, as more and more cards go Wild I find it to be a lot of fun to play old archetypes with some new cards, it's like visiting old friends. Just yesterday I made a Tempo Dragon Warrior and I climbed lower Platinum ranks to P5 pretty quick. Even beat a Token Druid, which in Wild can be VERY aggressive and win quick!
WCDC idea: "Description from the creator" should be visible during the Final Voting stage
that makes a lot of sense. much better to have a little extra text (which can be put into spoilers, so not even that) during the final vote Than potentially making a card lose unfairly because of lack of context
Watch Hearthstone's Senior Concept Artist Create September 2020's Card Back Live on Twitch Next Week
Probably not. They stopped relating monthly card backs to expansions around SoU.
Two Quests Are Better Than One - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Based on your suggestion I made this new version of the card. Now it can be used offensively to let your 5+ Attack minions rush down your opponent's board (but with the downside of potentially letting them hit back with 5+ Attack minions of their own) or it can be used defensively to give your big minions Taunt, with the downside that it might block you from attacking their face. Since it's an aura, you can choose when to kill it off to stop the effect, and your opponent can kill it with a spell to potentially get through your taunts.
Do you think it's too weak and should have 4 Health, or would that be too much?
Watch Hearthstone's Senior Concept Artist Create September 2020's Card Back Live on Twitch Next Week
Maybe it will even give us some clues of what the next expansion will be ;)
This Week's Hearthstone Tavern Brawl Sees the Return of "Battle of the Bans"
I actually didn't ban the scroll. I saw the scroll, Y'shaarj, and Marin. I decided that those cards are all so bad that he must have an actual good card that I can't see, so I banned Nefarian. It didn't matter though because the only spell he cast was Magic Trick and then Simulacrum.
This Week's Hearthstone Tavern Brawl Sees the Return of "Battle of the Bans"
He is just waiting until his mmr will drop so low that he can actually play a card... But i mean scroll ban is so easy...
This Week's Hearthstone Tavern Brawl Sees the Return of "Battle of the Bans"
My opponent was playing Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound, Marin the Fox, Nefarian, and Shifting Scroll. So yeah, that was a pretty easy win. They also said "woops" for just about the entire game except for the turn before they died when they said "greetings".
Some people are just plain weird.