I suppose we can expect everything from the nerf-reverts, new expansions, reveal schedule, what was discussed in the summit etc. will all be mashed into one announcement then released en-masse to the public.
I guess the idea is that secrets have a hidden priority on which effect take place first, hence why Flare is countered successfully by Counterspell. So manasaber not granting a mana crystal when sent back with Freezing Trap checks out.
I dont think its a bug, but kinda bummer that no one has clarified this interaction before (that secrets triggers are prioritize over others)
Makes me wonder whether manasaber effect can be countered by Vaporize as well
Obviously I'm not implying that Hungry Crabs were added to specifically counter Sludge Slurper. The card's great as a 2/1 1 drop, but by no means insane. During SoU where quest shaman was brutally everywhere, and evolve shaman later piled on the meta, I dont find it strange to see Hungry Crab as a 1 off in highlander, or beast hunter, since Sludge Slurper is always a keeper in the mulligan.
Its a little like Dragonmaw Poacher now. Its not in every deck, but given the current meta, I wouldnt be surprised to see it, and the effect both cards have cannot be easily shrugged off.
Edit: I should have also pointed out that murloc shaman and murloc pally was meta then as well. Murloc pally was particularly problematic since losing tempo early on is nearly always an auto concede.
Prior to nerfs its literally in every shaman deck throughout 2019. The fact that it has 2 attack means it trades well with nearly every 1 drop and some 2 drops. Even with ping classes it forces a turn 2 hero power. It provided tempo, value, and on top of that its a murloc so it pairs well with Underbelly Angler for the reload even in non-murloc oriented decks.
The only downside to this card is it gets countered hard by Hungry Crab and [Hearthstone Card (zephyrs the great) Not Found] to swing tempo early game. But that its forcing Hungry Crab as an inclusion only shows how powerful and innocent looking this card can be.
I guess Galakrond shaman broke the camels back on the card.
Well, that's quite anticlimatic after all the predictions made here. I had a sneaky suspicion it would be this card, but never thought that it would actually be it, since the nerf was so minor.
Agreed that Sap is currently in a flexible spot. I kinda really think 1 copy is enough. The other can be left according to meta. I was thinking of cutting SN1P-SN4P since face hunter is more or less surpassed by dragon hunter.
On the new quest warlock though. I've been watching gallon play this with great interest but am frequently disappointed on how inconsistent it is. My opinion is that it needs either more taunt minions or early tempo and Crazed Netherwing is not impressive. Plot Twist + The Soularium is really good in that deck, gets you your tekahn more consistently. Wish I had Dark Pharaoh Tekahn myself so I can experiment with the archetype.
Currently you need to open 30 packs from the most recent expansion to get all of the perks of the battlegrounds beta. Thats not very hard to do being f2p at all. Maybe they will add more perks for higher amount of packs purchased.
isnt it 20 packs?
10 packs for stats, 20 for 3 heros and 30 for emotes. The last one dosnt seem necessary but its there
Emoting the smiley cow when you luck out a round is priceless. Change my mind.
All the emotes are childish and horrible overall, but that one triggers me for unknown reasons.
does anyone still emotes in BG? I've only ever seen the murloc hand waving at the start of the game. The rest is usually either ignored or just never happened.
Wonder what prompted them to remove the voice emoting during the minion trading phase.
Try to not use both copies of Sap until you can push for lethal, unless against mech pally.
You can also ditch the Doomerang for Eviscerate or a second prep. Just be wary that most games you got to go face with kingsbane even if it only has 2 damage on it.
Edit: Just thought about the huge amounts of secret mage in wild. Maybe you can cut off one of the parachuters for eater of secrets.
Currently you need to open 30 packs from the most recent expansion to get all of the perks of the battlegrounds beta. Thats not very hard to do being f2p at all. Maybe they will add more perks for higher amount of packs purchased.
This might be one of those years we dont see any cards being HoF. The meta is healthy, and there's no card that truly deserves the boot to wild.
A few arguments against some entries some have entered;
- Edwin VanCleef - Its an all or nothing card for rogue. Its not played easily without risks, and is always under threat of silences and saps. I just dont think its ever an insurmountable problem. It may occasionally be a cheap win, but only if you get the best hand for it, and I think its generally agreed that if you get the best hand possible, you are in a good position to win anyway.
When it comes to VanCleef, I don't have any problem with him mechanics wise, but the problem lies in how many Rogue decks he is used in and the fact that he is part of the Evergreen set. Just look at HSReplay... at this moment as I'm typing, he is in 15.9% of decks, which makes him the 10th most popular legendary card at this time. The next highest Classic class Legendary is Cenarius in 2.5% of decks. And before Quest Druid came along in SoU, when was the last time you saw Cenarius getting used? None of the other Classic set Class Legendaries are above 1.0% representation. The Classic Class Legendary cards are supposed to be situational at best, popping up in the meta every now and then. When it comes to Edwin VanCleef, he's become a staple that just gets put into almost any Rogue deck. I feel Edwin VanCleef goes against their philosophy for the power level that they want the Classic set to be, thus I think it's time for him to get sent to the HoF to freshen up Rogues in standard.
I don't say this lightly, I love Edwin VanCleef, and I will miss him and still play the shit out of him in Wild, but I really think it's time for something different.
Eviscerate and Backstab would probably get the kick if we follow that line of logic. Nearly every deck plays those cards, but we're not seeing much calls for them to be booted.
Its not about removing Vancleef. Its about whats going to replace him and how will that fare in wild. There's just about a place for Edwin VanCleef in nearly very deck, not much for both him and Edmund Cleefvan.
Calls for HoF should, in my opinion, be more than just change for the sake of variety, or for its own sake.
That EVIL classes got more hype for their cards should be a given, considering that the explorers weren't even featured in RoS. Also it doesnt help that the most hyped of all the cards is Galakrond, a hero card, which is only provided to EVIL classes, with only The Amazing Reno being available only to mage. So I think we are in agreement that EVIL got the more exciting cards throughout the year. But this does not necessarily translate to having more fun:-
- Galakrond decks are amazingly predictable, and because of the necessity of including invoke cards and invoke-support cards, this reduces creativity in deck building. Its also not really all that fun to face against. Against rogue, always play around Seal Fate turn 3, against warrior always be vary of Ritual Chopper, etc. Its standard, and boring, in many ways, both to play and played against.
- Lackeys are not really class restricted. There's always EVIL Cable Rat and Grand Lackey Erkh if you're really keen on the card. Also, lets be honest, only shaman and rogue uses lackeys. Its nearly missing in both warrior and priest, and despite being pushed, lackey warlock never was a thing.
- Of all the EVIL classes, I think only quest shaman as a high claim for being genuinely interesting and good at the same time. The quests for warlock, warrior and rogue is generally meh. And quest priest is good on paper but brought down to earth by the priest class being a joke this year. By contrast, quest druid and quest hunter is astonishingly fun, and because of how its structured, is not a rail road of familiar cards from turn to turn neither.
- On the singleton issue. Zephrys the Great is the kind of card that should not under any circumstances be class restricted. Its the sole reason for any class to try highlander to begin with and promotes deck building
Just to conclude, I've had plenty of fun with the EVIL classes this year (aggro bomb warrior, quest tempo priest, quest shaman, galakrond rogue, quest warlock, plot twist warlock etc.) but I think I've have had more fun with the explorer classes, if only because its more challenging to build and win with those decks (beast hunter, quest paladin, quest hunter, quest druid, quest mage, secret quest mage, giants mage, mech highlander hunter, secret hunter, Lucentbark druid, etc.). I wouldn't call Year of the dragon an astoundingly fun year, but its been healthier and more diverse than any other year I can think of in hearthstone.
Its not easy to design cards to be fun and good at the same time. But I dont really feel that blizzard has let 4 out of 9 classes down. The only class to be put on that pedestal is priest, but priest and shaman are special classes where they are either too OP or too down in the dog turdlings to consider.
This might be one of those years we dont see any cards being HoF. The meta is healthy, and there's no card that truly deserves the boot to wild.
A few arguments against some entries some have entered;
- Malygos - I think theres an interview done somewhere 1 year back that the reason Malygos didn't get HoF is because the devs believe it allows for creative deck building. Also, the card is hardly broken. It usually requires cheating out to work, and so far the only classes that does this to any consistent degree is rogue and druid. Both are not using Malygos in tier 1-3 now.
- Leeroy Jenkins - We had a forum post on this previously. I reiterate my opinion that Leeroy is too powerful for aggro to lose as a resource, without any significant replacement which will likely just be as problematic. Much better to simply print better taunt minions to counter too many Leeroys than remove it.
- Divine Spirit - I don't like this card, but at the same time priest classic/basic cards are generally crap enough that I dont like the idea of this being HoF neither. A nerf to mana may be a better choice. But if theres going to be a candidate this would be the most likely to be it.
- Edwin VanCleef - Its an all or nothing card for rogue. Its not played easily without risks, and is always under threat of silences and saps. I just dont think its ever an insurmountable problem. It may occasionally be a cheap win, but only if you get the best hand for it, and I think its generally agreed that if you get the best hand possible, you are in a good position to win anyway.
- Mind Control Tech - Hate this card. But lets be honest, its not going to ever be nerfed or removed. Its just too situational. And the going argument is if youre playing right into it then that's less to do with RNG than choice.
- Northshire Cleric - The last unnerfed 1/3 thats arguable the best priest card at the moment. Its be touted before, but I think the devs had said at some point that they think cleric is still within acceptable boundaries.
According to Avalon's comments below, this is no longer the case it would seem. His link checks out.
Either way, 3 packs per expansion doesnt really do anything honestly. To have even the smallest impact you'd have to open at least 10 packs per expansion, which guarantees an epic at least.
Its a good deal, for the number of packs on offer. But unfortunately, its 3 packs per expansion, and if you're wanting to have a go with wild, 3 packs is hardly a good starting point to start from. They should have just let you choose the packs you want instead, really.
I suppose we can expect everything from the nerf-reverts, new expansions, reveal schedule, what was discussed in the summit etc. will all be mashed into one announcement then released en-masse to the public.
Why, just why?
I guess the idea is that secrets have a hidden priority on which effect take place first, hence why Flare is countered successfully by Counterspell. So manasaber not granting a mana crystal when sent back with Freezing Trap checks out.
I dont think its a bug, but kinda bummer that no one has clarified this interaction before (that secrets triggers are prioritize over others)
Makes me wonder whether manasaber effect can be countered by Vaporize as well
Obviously I'm not implying that Hungry Crabs were added to specifically counter Sludge Slurper. The card's great as a 2/1 1 drop, but by no means insane. During SoU where quest shaman was brutally everywhere, and evolve shaman later piled on the meta, I dont find it strange to see Hungry Crab as a 1 off in highlander, or beast hunter, since Sludge Slurper is always a keeper in the mulligan.
Its a little like Dragonmaw Poacher now. Its not in every deck, but given the current meta, I wouldnt be surprised to see it, and the effect both cards have cannot be easily shrugged off.
Edit: I should have also pointed out that murloc shaman and murloc pally was meta then as well. Murloc pally was particularly problematic since losing tempo early on is nearly always an auto concede.
Prior to nerfs its literally in every shaman deck throughout 2019. The fact that it has 2 attack means it trades well with nearly every 1 drop and some 2 drops. Even with ping classes it forces a turn 2 hero power. It provided tempo, value, and on top of that its a murloc so it pairs well with Underbelly Angler for the reload even in non-murloc oriented decks.
The only downside to this card is it gets countered hard by Hungry Crab and [Hearthstone Card (zephyrs the great) Not Found] to swing tempo early game. But that its forcing Hungry Crab as an inclusion only shows how powerful and innocent looking this card can be.
I guess Galakrond shaman broke the camels back on the card.
Well, that's quite anticlimatic after all the predictions made here. I had a sneaky suspicion it would be this card, but never thought that it would actually be it, since the nerf was so minor.
Fair enough. But at turn 1 if I was provided with a choice between alley cat and murloc tidehunter, I'm usually skewing towards murloc tidehunter.
As one of the two cards that actually spawns another minion when played, and the fact that brann is up there and alley cat is not, that's my guess.
A few suggestions. Either one will do.
- Start with 3 gold
- Create a minion that refreshes the bar when bought/sold
- Start at tier 2
At the moment, its really punishing if you get offed by minions available rng, this is more so with Millhouse.
Shouldnt come as a surprised the murloc tidehunter and Brann's there. Murloc builds are insane in this current meta for BG.
Cobalt Guardian is the only reason why mech is playable now, so no surprise there.
Defender of Argus is surprising though, since taunts are more strategic in BG. I think there are better cards available than that card to be honest.
Agreed that Sap is currently in a flexible spot. I kinda really think 1 copy is enough. The other can be left according to meta. I was thinking of cutting SN1P-SN4P since face hunter is more or less surpassed by dragon hunter.
On the new quest warlock though. I've been watching gallon play this with great interest but am frequently disappointed on how inconsistent it is. My opinion is that it needs either more taunt minions or early tempo and Crazed Netherwing is not impressive. Plot Twist + The Soularium is really good in that deck, gets you your tekahn more consistently. Wish I had Dark Pharaoh Tekahn myself so I can experiment with the archetype.
Scarlet Webweaver + King Krush + Hunting Party with Zul'jin for the reload.
This deck krushes nearly every slow control deck. It tends to die to nearly everything else though.
does anyone still emotes in BG? I've only ever seen the murloc hand waving at the start of the game. The rest is usually either ignored or just never happened.
Wonder what prompted them to remove the voice emoting during the minion trading phase.
From my own experience, if you're going kingsbane aggro, you should go full hyper aggro with it. Specifically;
- Remove 2x Bloodsail Raider for 1x Preparation + 1x Leeroy Jenkins
- Remove 2x Southsea Squidface for 2x Goblin Auto-Barber
- Remove 1x Southsea Captain for 1x Doomerang
Try to not use both copies of Sap until you can push for lethal, unless against mech pally.
You can also ditch the Doomerang for Eviscerate or a second prep. Just be wary that most games you got to go face with kingsbane even if it only has 2 damage on it.
Edit: Just thought about the huge amounts of secret mage in wild. Maybe you can cut off one of the parachuters for eater of secrets.
Still waiting for the big change announcement and hope to god this is not the major part of it.
I see a lot of players asking Emerald Spellstone to be un-nerfed. Don't think it will happen because of even hunter.
isnt it 20 packs?
From hsreplay the highest classic/basic card represented for rogue is Backstab, followed by Eviscerate, Shadowstep, and Sap
Eviscerate and Backstab would probably get the kick if we follow that line of logic. Nearly every deck plays those cards, but we're not seeing much calls for them to be booted.
Its not about removing Vancleef. Its about whats going to replace him and how will that fare in wild. There's just about a place for Edwin VanCleef in nearly very deck, not much for both him and Edmund Cleefvan.
Calls for HoF should, in my opinion, be more than just change for the sake of variety, or for its own sake.
Just a few points on your article;
That EVIL classes got more hype for their cards should be a given, considering that the explorers weren't even featured in RoS. Also it doesnt help that the most hyped of all the cards is Galakrond, a hero card, which is only provided to EVIL classes, with only The Amazing Reno being available only to mage. So I think we are in agreement that EVIL got the more exciting cards throughout the year. But this does not necessarily translate to having more fun:-
- Galakrond decks are amazingly predictable, and because of the necessity of including invoke cards and invoke-support cards, this reduces creativity in deck building. Its also not really all that fun to face against. Against rogue, always play around Seal Fate turn 3, against warrior always be vary of Ritual Chopper, etc. Its standard, and boring, in many ways, both to play and played against.
- Lackeys are not really class restricted. There's always EVIL Cable Rat and Grand Lackey Erkh if you're really keen on the card. Also, lets be honest, only shaman and rogue uses lackeys. Its nearly missing in both warrior and priest, and despite being pushed, lackey warlock never was a thing.
- Of all the EVIL classes, I think only quest shaman as a high claim for being genuinely interesting and good at the same time. The quests for warlock, warrior and rogue is generally meh. And quest priest is good on paper but brought down to earth by the priest class being a joke this year. By contrast, quest druid and quest hunter is astonishingly fun, and because of how its structured, is not a rail road of familiar cards from turn to turn neither.
- On the singleton issue. Zephrys the Great is the kind of card that should not under any circumstances be class restricted. Its the sole reason for any class to try highlander to begin with and promotes deck building
Just to conclude, I've had plenty of fun with the EVIL classes this year (aggro bomb warrior, quest tempo priest, quest shaman, galakrond rogue, quest warlock, plot twist warlock etc.) but I think I've have had more fun with the explorer classes, if only because its more challenging to build and win with those decks (beast hunter, quest paladin, quest hunter, quest druid, quest mage, secret quest mage, giants mage, mech highlander hunter, secret hunter, Lucentbark druid, etc.). I wouldn't call Year of the dragon an astoundingly fun year, but its been healthier and more diverse than any other year I can think of in hearthstone.
Its not easy to design cards to be fun and good at the same time. But I dont really feel that blizzard has let 4 out of 9 classes down. The only class to be put on that pedestal is priest, but priest and shaman are special classes where they are either too OP or too down in the dog turdlings to consider.
This might be one of those years we dont see any cards being HoF. The meta is healthy, and there's no card that truly deserves the boot to wild.
A few arguments against some entries some have entered;
- Malygos - I think theres an interview done somewhere 1 year back that the reason Malygos didn't get HoF is because the devs believe it allows for creative deck building. Also, the card is hardly broken. It usually requires cheating out to work, and so far the only classes that does this to any consistent degree is rogue and druid. Both are not using Malygos in tier 1-3 now.
- Leeroy Jenkins - We had a forum post on this previously. I reiterate my opinion that Leeroy is too powerful for aggro to lose as a resource, without any significant replacement which will likely just be as problematic. Much better to simply print better taunt minions to counter too many Leeroys than remove it.
- Divine Spirit - I don't like this card, but at the same time priest classic/basic cards are generally crap enough that I dont like the idea of this being HoF neither. A nerf to mana may be a better choice. But if theres going to be a candidate this would be the most likely to be it.
- Edwin VanCleef - Its an all or nothing card for rogue. Its not played easily without risks, and is always under threat of silences and saps. I just dont think its ever an insurmountable problem. It may occasionally be a cheap win, but only if you get the best hand for it, and I think its generally agreed that if you get the best hand possible, you are in a good position to win anyway.
- Mind Control Tech - Hate this card. But lets be honest, its not going to ever be nerfed or removed. Its just too situational. And the going argument is if youre playing right into it then that's less to do with RNG than choice.
- Northshire Cleric - The last unnerfed 1/3 thats arguable the best priest card at the moment. Its be touted before, but I think the devs had said at some point that they think cleric is still within acceptable boundaries.
According to Avalon's comments below, this is no longer the case it would seem. His link checks out.
Either way, 3 packs per expansion doesnt really do anything honestly. To have even the smallest impact you'd have to open at least 10 packs per expansion, which guarantees an epic at least.
Its a good deal, for the number of packs on offer. But unfortunately, its 3 packs per expansion, and if you're wanting to have a go with wild, 3 packs is hardly a good starting point to start from. They should have just let you choose the packs you want instead, really.
So, have to be a skip for me I'm afraid.
Dont have time for both battlegrounds and regular hearthstone. I did play a little when dragons were up. Never got Tirion, but faced him a few times.
Just an honest question really. At this point I dont think I'll get a chance with him.