Good catch on the chefs--I meant to include that on my list but forgot. I don't think I can agree with any of the others, though--perhaps Ranger as a 3/1, but 2/1 just seems too punitive for a 4-mana unit, and the others don't match the patterns.
The problem with ranger is that it has Scout. With a statline of 3+ attack, the defender doesn't really have the option to NOT block it, as taking 6+ damage directly for 4 mana and keeping the unit alive is Huge. On top of that, its also great on defense despite being an offensive card, as it deals 3+ damage to the target it blocks while summoning a 4/4. Even as a 3/1, i still would play Ranger everywhere i could. Only starting from 2 attack that the defender may have interesting decisions if it should be blocked or not. 4 direct damage + (2/1+LB) body is not bad at all for 4 mana. Increasing the cost to 5 mana is also an option, but it probably won't see play there.
Finally, i don't expect all the cards to see nerfs, just some of them to tune down the clock on burn decks a bit.
Cards i like to see a buff someday: Iceborn Legacy -> Fast Avalanche -> 3 damage OR Fast Poro Herder -> Remove condition Braum -> 5 damage (His level up is not that OP for todays meta anyway) Shared Spoils -> 3 mana, draw a card OR reduced cost 1 mana.
Great design! It really captured Zilean's essence. I like the Time Warp idea a lot!
Just keep in mind... shuffling Zilean over and over into the deck is a bit toxic thou, as it cannot run out of cards and its somewhat impossible to get rid of him. Maybe his second form should not have Last Breath.
Its a balanced deck/concept. Easy to swarm, but weak versus AOE effects.
Elise is arguably the best champion in LOR. Her Level up is easy to pull off but not broken when she does. Trivia: When Elise levels up, she gets a +2/+0 bonus instead of the regular +1/+1. This is an interesting design, as she can put more damage in but its just as weak to removals, which gives the opponent more options and stays true to the deck weakness (AOE damage).
Spiders are not a top tier deck but are viable up to master rank. I run a spider token deck myself and given the right strategy/meta, its even possible to achive Master rank 1 with it.
UPD: Also to anyone saying burst effect for 8 mana is for the late game, I disagree. It cant be a late game effect, if you play it on turn 5, on the minion you stuck on the board previous turn. You usually play some power heros on turn 5 or later even and BOOM. Deal with it the turn before it. So yeah, nice effect.
It requires a big enough unit alive to be worth the effect, 3 spell mana stored on T4 and an T5 without playing anything to pull that off. When someone plays it on T5, i wonder what his opponent was doing all this time since he had to pass at least 3 turns out of 5: (1 turn)- to play a unit he can't trade; (1 turn)- to store mana; (1 turn)- to cast the spell.
That being said, this card has an awkward design as it is too costly/situational for high level games so it hardly will see play there, but its too annoying/lacks counterplay for casual/slow games.
Like i said in my previous post, i have no idea why they even printed this card outside of testing the concept.
I guess my opponent is in for some trouble... Even if he has The Ruination, the next one will be at least a 19/19 while the third a guaranteed 20/20+ setting up an OTK play on Turn 9.
Mostly used to generate more Pursuit copies once his condition is met, but its also good to duplicate cards that works great against a specific MU. Stuff like more draw, removals, EZ activators, extra healing, etc.
idiot design this card, it is totally unfair in expedition mode. I uninstall this fking game. Player can win the game only by this card in expedition mode.
I like where both your heads are at on this. Specifically, I would recommend:
Changing Avalanche to either 4 damage or to fast speed. I spent a lot of time trying this month to make this card work, and even with a glut of P&Z / Noxus burn decks and Demacia bannerman decks it just stinks. The burn decks will always open attack, the bannerman decks will mostly survive it, and if there's a Crimson Disciple on-board you'll probably lose as much health as you prevent. It's just insane how much better Withering Wail is: for 1 more mana, the damage is fast-speed limited to your opponent's board and you heal.
Either buff Counterfeit Copies to shuffle more copies or make it guaranteed to put one on/near the top. I know what you're thinking--that's a P&Z card, not a Frejlord--but its intended to be part of the Elnuk package. Granted nobody wants a return to pre-nerf Elnuk madness, but it should be possible to build a Frejlord/P&Z deck that can contest a bannerman deck on turn 5 with some consistency.
Remove the "if" clause on Poro Herder--he just always tutors you 2 poros. Maybe also make Poro Snax add a random poro to hand? Basically: poros should be an easily slottable package comparable to spiders in SI, Eye of the Dragon + spells in Ionia, or aggro / Can't Block in Noxus.
Reduce the cost of She Who Wanders--maybe a 8 mana 8/8? She's suppose to be a stabilization tool circa The Ruination, but whereas SI can bank mana and heal/stall until Ruination on 6, its nearly impossible for Frejlord to survive until 10 without already winning board anyways.
Agree with all your changes except the Counterfeit one. There are other applications for this card outside the Elnuk combo. i've been running Counterfeit Copies in a Purrsuit of Perfection + Heimerdinger deck and it works very well as it is.
A great example of this comes from Hearthstone. The Caverns Below was not a massively OP card - the win rates for the archetype were only narrowly over 50% - but it created a meta game where match-ups were super polarized. Either you were playing a deck that was good against Quest Rogue, or you weren't, and that was the deciding factor in whether or not you won, not how you played the game. Blizzard tried and failed to balance it multiple times with nerfs.
I fully agree with you but wasn't Hearthstone always this way after Naxxaramas?
I mean, there was always this 1 way too powerfull deck warping the meta which was so much stronger then everything else that forced every other deck to either tech against it or to play counters.
Ex: Started with UTH Hunter otk, then Face Hunter, Mech Mage, Solitary Rogue, 7/7 Shaman, Demonlock, Dr. 6 Paladin, Pirate Warrior, Jade Druid, Patron Warrior, ...etc, just to name a few.
Purify works because it removes "all text" from a follower. This includes the text that classifies the card as a "Spider".
Wait, what? Are you certain? It removes the tribal class as well??? So that means its possible to prevent Elise from leveling up by casting Purify on a spider? How does that even work... do the follower and everybody else forget the spider was a spider... hahahaha, weird :)
When a spider is buffed through Iceborn Legacy, every other spider token also gets the plus bonus when spiders are summoned, even if they didn't exist by the time Iceborn Legacy was casted.
So It makes no sense they would lose the buff when it gets back to the hand... and its even debatable if effects like Purify should work on them.
I think for now, Riot is playtesting this card and analysing how players react to it. There are many ways to easy fix it later: print more obliterate effects, change the target to followers, spell speed to fast, undying for a few turns/charges instead of being invulnerable, etc.
The problem with ranger is that it has Scout. With a statline of 3+ attack, the defender doesn't really have the option to NOT block it, as taking 6+ damage directly for 4 mana and keeping the unit alive is Huge. On top of that, its also great on defense despite being an offensive card, as it deals 3+ damage to the target it blocks while summoning a 4/4.
Even as a 3/1, i still would play Ranger everywhere i could. Only starting from 2 attack that the defender may have interesting decisions if it should be blocked or not. 4 direct damage + (2/1+LB) body is not bad at all for 4 mana. Increasing the cost to 5 mana is also an option, but it probably won't see play there.
Finally, i don't expect all the cards to see nerfs, just some of them to tune down the clock on burn decks a bit.
You are a smart guy, i am sure you don't need me for you to come out with a better solution that won't kill the card.
It was vastly discussed already, you might want to check for hints in old topics:
https://outof.cards/forums/legends-of-runeterra/runeterra-general/4084-what-kind-of-design-is-that
https://outof.cards/forums/legends-of-runeterra/runeterra-general/3992-invincible-card
https://outof.cards/forums/legends-of-runeterra/runeterra-general/4203-give-an-ally-cannot-be-damaged-or-killed-what-card-is-this
As for myself, i don't think Unyielding Spirit trully needs to be changed.
But since it is a toxic card for casual games, guess riot will change it.
Cards that might be nerfed next patch:
Unyielding Spirit -> Change text "Ally" to "Follower".
Boomcrew Rookie -> 1/2 or 1 damage
Imperial Demolitionist -> 1 damage
Crimson Disciple -> 1 damage
War Chefs -> 2/2
Grizzled Ranger -> 2/1
Cards that i would like to see nerfed but i don't think Riot will do it right now:
Deep Meditation -> Slow
Will of Ionia -> 5 mana
Solitary Monk -> 3/4
Precious Pet -> 1/1 + Last Breath: Deal 1 damage to the enemy nexus
Ezreal -> Level Up: target 10 times
Terror of the Tides -> 9 mana
Cards i like to see a buff someday:
Iceborn Legacy -> Fast
Avalanche -> 3 damage OR Fast
Poro Herder -> Remove condition
Braum -> 5 damage (His level up is not that OP for todays meta anyway)
Shared Spoils -> 3 mana, draw a card OR reduced cost 1 mana.
Might just delete the card as well.
There are plenty of other ways to nerf it, you guys are just picking the worst one.
Great design! It really captured Zilean's essence.
I like the Time Warp idea a lot!
Just keep in mind... shuffling Zilean over and over into the deck is a bit toxic thou, as it cannot run out of cards and its somewhat impossible to get rid of him. Maybe his second form should not have Last Breath.
Not sure there is much to say.
Its a balanced deck/concept.
Easy to swarm, but weak versus AOE effects.
Elise is arguably the best champion in LOR. Her Level up is easy to pull off but not broken when she does.
Trivia: When Elise levels up, she gets a +2/+0 bonus instead of the regular +1/+1. This is an interesting design, as she can put more damage in but its just as weak to removals, which gives the opponent more options and stays true to the deck weakness (AOE damage).
Spiders are not a top tier deck but are viable up to master rank.
I run a spider token deck myself and given the right strategy/meta, its even possible to achive Master rank 1 with it.
Shadow Island
I love the Elise concept.
- Stay away from my pets!
It requires a big enough unit alive to be worth the effect, 3 spell mana stored on T4 and an T5 without playing anything to pull that off. When someone plays it on T5, i wonder what his opponent was doing all this time since he had to pass at least 3 turns out of 5:
(1 turn)- to play a unit he can't trade; (1 turn)- to store mana; (1 turn)- to cast the spell.
That being said, this card has an awkward design as it is too costly/situational for high level games so it hardly will see play there, but its too annoying/lacks counterplay for casual/slow games.
Like i said in my previous post, i have no idea why they even printed this card outside of testing the concept.
They Who Got Fat -> They Who Endure + Atrocity
I guess my opponent is in for some trouble...
Even if he has The Ruination, the next one will be at least a 19/19 while the third a guaranteed 20/20+ setting up an OTK play on Turn 9.
My deck can be very disgusting sometimes :X
Mostly used to generate more Pursuit copies once his condition is met, but its also good to duplicate cards that works great against a specific MU.
Stuff like more draw, removals, EZ activators, extra healing, etc.
Purrsuit of Perfection is a CONSTRUCTED CARD ONLY.
Before posting needless outbursts, try at least get the card right next time. Thank You.
Agree with all your changes except the Counterfeit one.
There are other applications for this card outside the Elnuk combo.
i've been running Counterfeit Copies in a Purrsuit of Perfection + Heimerdinger deck and it works very well as it is.
I fully agree with you but wasn't Hearthstone always this way after Naxxaramas?
I mean, there was always this 1 way too powerfull deck warping the meta which was so much stronger then everything else that forced every other deck to either tech against it or to play counters.
Ex: Started with UTH Hunter otk, then Face Hunter, Mech Mage, Solitary Rogue, 7/7 Shaman, Demonlock, Dr. 6 Paladin, Pirate Warrior, Jade Druid, Patron Warrior, ...etc, just to name a few.
Hope it won't turn out in another The Ruination complain
Wait, what? Are you certain? It removes the tribal class as well???
So that means its possible to prevent Elise from leveling up by casting Purify on a spider?
How does that even work... do the follower and everybody else forget the spider was a spider... hahahaha, weird :)
I think its not intended.
When a spider is buffed through Iceborn Legacy, every other spider token also gets the plus bonus when spiders are summoned, even if they didn't exist by the time Iceborn Legacy was casted.
So It makes no sense they would lose the buff when it gets back to the hand... and its even debatable if effects like Purify should work on them.
I think for now, Riot is playtesting this card and analysing how players react to it.
There are many ways to easy fix it later: print more obliterate effects, change the target to followers, spell speed to fast, undying for a few turns/charges instead of being invulnerable, etc.