Thoughts on the exclusion of Murgur Murgurgle? The card contests the early board, and can be a win con by itself when played on curve. The card itself doesn't need to be supported by other cards.
Is Replicat-o-tron replaceable? If yes, which card would you suggest?
- Bloodboil Brute and Bloodsworn Mercenary will still see plenty of play since the nerf barely touch upon its power turns. Surprised that the hit wasn't to cards like Inner Rage, which would at least hit them where it hurts most. Bloodsworn was never played as a 3/3, and if it ever comes out at 3 its usually because there's already a big target to copy so I dont think making it 2/2 makes much difference. Would have been much more impactful if it gets a mana nerf, but that would make it fair and therefore unplayable.
Just a minor note, I think the health nerf might be more impactful than you think. On the skipper turn, that 1 less health can mean 1 less proc from skipper, 1 less card drawn, or 1 less discount from brute.
More Librams: I just really like the Libram package and would love to see it get some new tools in the next expansion. Specially, I'd love a Libram that has card draw (e.g. "Libram of Focus: 4 mana - Draw 2 cards"), and minion that discovers a Libram (e.g. "Aldor Librarian: 1 mana 1/1 - Battlecry: Discover a Libram.").
More Handbuff: This one is personal. I adore Handbuff and have since Mean Streets and I want more (e.g. "Lead By Example: 3 mana - Give a minion and all minions in your hand +2/+2").
More AoE: I'm sick of using Wild Pyromancer and want some AoE that doesn't depend on 2 card combos (e.g. "Righteous Purge: 6 mana - Lifesteal. Deal 3 damage to all enemy minions.")
A Control Win Condition: I'm super flexible on what exactly this is, but Paladin needs something it can do to reliably close the game in a control matchup. Should it be burst damage/OTK? Should it be an infinite-value generator? Should it be a big 10-mana minion? Idk, but Paladin needs something.
Regarding your 5th suggestion, I don't think it would be good for the class to have great value generation. It's mix of great healing and value would then look a bit too much like priest. Instead I want its control tools to deal better with aggro from the start, while leaning into what pally does well: minions. It should have more things like Benevolent Djinn as proactive control tools rather than the reactive tools of priest. Sure you might still usually lose to more value-heavy control decks, but it gives you the choice to try to go midrange to win those instead of waiting to lose to value.
I agree with proactive tools. I also want Paladin to go for the mid range route.
You pretty much nailed most of what paladin currently needs, but to be honest we'll most likely only see only some form of one of the 3 you listed. Reasoning below;
- For some weird reason hearthstone has never really followed up with the theme of previous expansions, ever since Ungoro. So the libram train probably ends here. I dont particularly think the librams needs expansions; Libram of Hope and Libram of Justice are pretty strong in their own right, and Libram of Wisdom is flexible enough to fill in the gaps. Also, any further discount cards for librams will just break the game. If Libram of Hope ever gets to 0 mana, you can easily picture a few turns of cycle with Lady Liadrin and bounce cards. Not what I would call as balanced.
TBH, I'd be happy even just one of those were implemented lol/
You have a point here which sucks for us lol. I liked the concept of the Libram when it was first announced, cautiously optimistic Blizz breaks the trend and add more support. But even if they don't go with the Libram track, just better support cards (e.g. card draw, better early drops) could make Librams work.
Unless pally gets insane draw mechanisms like OTK pally, I doubt more discounts would break the game. Drawing and playing all 4 existing cards only has a total of 6 discount, so I believe there is some room. In a normal game it it highly unlikely you will draw all of them anyway. I had countless games that ended with Libram pally where I didn't even draw a single Libram discount cards (with a hand full of libram. no less). Also re: Lady Liadrin, in the course of the game you will more than likely pollute your pool with Libram of Wisdoms, so you will unlikely get that broken number of [Hearthstone Card (Libram of Hopes) Not Found].
Even if they don't print more Libram cards, I hope we get more ways to tutor out the discount cards. Librams without the discounts are highly inefficient cards.
Quote From dapperdog
- Good 1 drops are needed, but your suggestions is just a little too much. With the exception of cards like pre-nerf Undertaker, Patches the Pirate and Small-Time Buccaneer, team5 have never really printed anything too good in the 1 mana slot, and from experience that's probably a wise choice. Even so, I think with the nerf to Battlefiend, a regular Blazing Battlemage or Argent Squire can easily fill paladin's 1 slot without making it overpowered. Hand of A'dal is already too good a follow up and most class can't deal with one on curve.
I admit I erred more on overpowered than underpowered when I stated those examples, but I think paladin needs more broken cards. The other classes do broken things while pally is stuck with OK cards.
The ones you mentioned are OK cards in the current meta, but OK doesn't cut it I think. Otherwise they would be widely used. I don't think I have ran into a pally which run Blazing Battlemage or Argent Squire.
Quote From dapperdog
- I will agree that card draw is the one thing paladin really struggles hard right now, but again from experience, we would probably get some kind of conditional card draw option. Maybe 1 mana draw 1, draw 2 if you have a dragon in hand. Or 2 mana draw 1, reduce its cost by 3. Or maybe even 2 mana, draw 2 spells from your deck. I like your idea of a libram card draw, but even you would concede that its pretty much broken with the discount cards.
I think broken is relative, if every class has broken cards, then I don't think its broken. I mean they printed Skull of Gul'dan, draw 3 with 9 mana worth of discount.
But I'll leave it up to team 5 what they consider balanced or not. The samples I stated are just my opinion.
Just for the sake of discussion, what are your wish lists for Paladin?
For me, here are cards I would like to see in future expansions:
Early/mid game draw - The best draw engine of Pally is Lay on Hands which cost 8 mana. Compare that to Battle Rage and Skull of Gul'dan, it is significantly weaker.
If they want to create a class identity, maybe make the card draw a Libram.
Spell: Libram of Insight. 6 mana. Draw 3 cards. - Sprint with Upside -or-
Spell: Libram of Insight. 4 mana. Draw 2 cards. - Slower Arcane Intellect with Upside
Un-situational Good 1 drops - Imprisoned Sungill is a decent card, but isn't as impactful if you aren't running synergy builds. Maybe something like:
Minion: 1 mana 1/2 with divine shield. - A sticky minion turn 1, as a possible buff target turn 2.
Minion: 1 mana 1/2. Battlecry: Summon a 1/1. - 2 tokens to contest the board. Can synergize with existing cards like Righteous Cause
More libram discount cards
Minion: 1 mana 1/2: Battlecry: Reduce the Cost of your Librams by (1) this game
Spell: 3 mana: Draw 2 cards. Reduce the Cost of your Librams by (1) this game
Before going hiatus from HS, Paladin used to be my favorite class (particularly Mid range paladin before standard started). So my wish list leans towards that archetype.
Is Dragonrider Talritha a good addition? You got 4 dragons in the deck. The chances of drawing and playing Talritha while having a dragon on hand is pretty low I think. Don't you think a second Underlight Angling Rod is a better tempo tool than a 3 mana 3/3 with a low chance of an upside?
What's your solution to bad hands when you don't have card draw? I remember trying a variant of pure libram when the expansion dropped but kept running on the problem of bad draws. I keep getting cards in the wrong order (librams without discounts or discounts without librams). It's especially annoying to draw Libram of Hope and Lightforged Crusader in my opening hand without an efficient way to find more cards. Against DH and other aggressive decks, it's a death sentence.
In the current met, aside from Res Priest (my most hated deck, bar none), I'm getting annoyed with scam mages and highlander mages.
Specifically, I hate they are relying too heavily on scamming their opponent with Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron. Doesn't matter if they are ahead on board or if they are behind on board, come turn 6 jam box. I dislike casino matches.
Not sure if this is the list Fishtank was referring to, but this was the last list I caught from his stream. Not sure if he has new iterations since then.
Some players like grinding up ladder with one specific deck and play other decks in casual where there isnt any pressure to win. Doesnt have to matter if its tier 1 or not, if you're not comfortable with the deck and you dont want to lose stars, you play in casual.
This.
For me personally, I mostly play homebrew/lower tier decks in casual.
If I do play T1 decks, it is either:
To practice decks I'm not familiar with.
I want to play but there is a good chance I won't be able to finish the game (i.e. short breaks from work, unstable connection). Losses due to disconnects frustrate the hell out of me.
If you don't mind the loses though, just keep playing meme decks in casual. Eventually, your casual MMR will tank and you will start facing more meme decks.
Thanks for the response.
Tried it out, but replaced cards that I did't have.
Removed Replicat-o-tron x 2 and Maiev Shadowsong.
Added 2nd Call to Adventure, 2nd Amber Watcher, and Murgur Murgurgle
Not tier 1, but significantly better with buffs.
The ability to tutor out Aldor Attendant is huge.
Having 6 chances to draw out the libram discounts makes it more consistent.
A few additional questions:
Thanks for the responses!
I like the rewards now. More value. The 4 packs also gives you a chance to roll for epics.
In the last system for me, the gold epic just means 400 dust.
Hey guys, just wondering, do the odds increase the closer you are to the pity timer?
For example, I am at pack 25 without a legendary.
Are the odds to get the legendary like scenario 1 or scenario 2?
(NOTE: I am guessing the numbers here lol, I don't know the actual value)
Scenario 1 - Flat Percentage
Pack 26 - 1.50%
Pack 27 - 1.50%
Pack 28 - 1.50%
...
Pack 39 - 1.50%
Pack 40 - 100.00%
Scenario 2 - Increasing Percentage
Pack 26 - 1.50%
Pack 27 - 5.00%
Pack 28 - 10.00%
...
Pack 39 - 80.00%
Pack 40 - 100.00%
Thoughts on the exclusion of Murgur Murgurgle? The card contests the early board, and can be a win con by itself when played on curve. The card itself doesn't need to be supported by other cards.
Is Replicat-o-tron replaceable? If yes, which card would you suggest?
Just a minor note, I think the health nerf might be more impactful than you think. On the skipper turn, that 1 less health can mean 1 less proc from skipper, 1 less card drawn, or 1 less discount from brute.
Surprised to see HunterAce and Casie down 0-2.
Purple looked disinterested in his matches.
I agree with proactive tools. I also want Paladin to go for the mid range route.
TBH, I'd be happy even just one of those were implemented lol/
You have a point here which sucks for us lol. I liked the concept of the Libram when it was first announced, cautiously optimistic Blizz breaks the trend and add more support. But even if they don't go with the Libram track, just better support cards (e.g. card draw, better early drops) could make Librams work.
Unless pally gets insane draw mechanisms like OTK pally, I doubt more discounts would break the game. Drawing and playing all 4 existing cards only has a total of 6 discount, so I believe there is some room. In a normal game it it highly unlikely you will draw all of them anyway. I had countless games that ended with Libram pally where I didn't even draw a single Libram discount cards (with a hand full of libram. no less). Also re: Lady Liadrin, in the course of the game you will more than likely pollute your pool with Libram of Wisdoms, so you will unlikely get that broken number of [Hearthstone Card (Libram of Hopes) Not Found].
Even if they don't print more Libram cards, I hope we get more ways to tutor out the discount cards. Librams without the discounts are highly inefficient cards.
I admit I erred more on overpowered than underpowered when I stated those examples, but I think paladin needs more broken cards. The other classes do broken things while pally is stuck with OK cards.
The ones you mentioned are OK cards in the current meta, but OK doesn't cut it I think. Otherwise they would be widely used. I don't think I have ran into a pally which run Blazing Battlemage or Argent Squire.
I think broken is relative, if every class has broken cards, then I don't think its broken. I mean they printed Skull of Gul'dan, draw 3 with 9 mana worth of discount.
But I'll leave it up to team 5 what they consider balanced or not. The samples I stated are just my opinion.
Hey there,
Just for the sake of discussion, what are your wish lists for Paladin?
For me, here are cards I would like to see in future expansions:
Before going hiatus from HS, Paladin used to be my favorite class (particularly Mid range paladin before standard started). So my wish list leans towards that archetype.
A few questions:
Is Dragonrider Talritha a good addition? You got 4 dragons in the deck. The chances of drawing and playing Talritha while having a dragon on hand is pretty low I think. Don't you think a second Underlight Angling Rod is a better tempo tool than a 3 mana 3/3 with a low chance of an upside?
What's your solution to bad hands when you don't have card draw? I remember trying a variant of pure libram when the expansion dropped but kept running on the problem of bad draws. I keep getting cards in the wrong order (librams without discounts or discounts without librams). It's especially annoying to draw Libram of Hope and Lightforged Crusader in my opening hand without an efficient way to find more cards. Against DH and other aggressive decks, it's a death sentence.
Just wondering why they shifted away from the Shield-Ban format.
I think this can be a new game more in itself.
You could create a mode which rotates monthly, 3-6 expansions/adventures from wild and standard. It could create pocket metas from month to month.
One and done for me lol. Too much RNG for my tastes.
Thanks for the response!
Still not too familiar with piloting this deck.
What's the game plan against greedy control decks like priest?
In the current met, aside from Res Priest (my most hated deck, bar none), I'm getting annoyed with scam mages and highlander mages.
Specifically, I hate they are relying too heavily on scamming their opponent with Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron. Doesn't matter if they are ahead on board or if they are behind on board, come turn 6 jam box. I dislike casino matches.
You can also qualify for the Masters tour via open cup qualifiers.
Not sure if this is the list Fishtank was referring to, but this was the last list I caught from his stream. Not sure if he has new iterations since then.
This.
For me personally, I mostly play homebrew/lower tier decks in casual.
If I do play T1 decks, it is either:
If you don't mind the loses though, just keep playing meme decks in casual.
Eventually, your casual MMR will tank and you will start facing more meme decks.