That quest is kind of the reason I got more serious about HS. Not because I enjoyed playing it, but because I decided to craft it after it turned out to be so good, then I opened a copy a day later and I just hit DE on it. A few weeks later it got a nerf and I was like “I could have gotten 1200 more dust?!?!”
From there on out I was much more mindful about my collection, learned to play better with what I had, and so the hobby became a crippling addiction!
The Warrior QL nerf is likely going to matter in the new Wild meta after the hit to Kael and the ban of Switcheroo. It was previously one of, if not the strongest decks in Wild. Now nerfing or removing two of the decks that would beat it means it would likely jump back up to the top. So while it may not seem needed right now, it should help create a better Wild after these other nerfs.
Kael revert to the nerf likely means the deck still sees play but is slowed down. Personally I think the long term problem for Blizzard when it comes to Druid is going to be Druid's ability to get 20 max mana, and as long as this is the case Team 5 will continuously find themselves having to nerf cards to limit Druid.
Also, because of how many "draw three" cards Druid has I wouldn't be opposed to Miracle Growth being either "draw two" or even "draw a card".
And lastly, Priest will be just fine! They are losing a shenanigans high roll deck, but they can go right back to playing Aggro Shadow Priest, Big Priest, or just regular old Inner Fire Priest. It's a shame that Switcheroo has to be hit like this because overall it's a cool concept, that had a lot of potential. I actually wanted to use it in a Mind Blast OTK Priest simply as a 3 mana draw two minions like you mentioned Priest needing above. But obviously the Switcheroo Boar deck was a bit too consistent on it's high rolling or they wouldn't have had to ban it in Wild or alter it to stop the abuse of the card in Standard.
This isn't really a site bug, but figured it was easier to post here than go through and report on 20 or so posts. But this user has been making a ton of spam posts, just FYI. I'm sure you noticed, but wanted to say something just in case.
Swapping costs of the two minions would help mitigate the use of it to make two early 12/12s with Rush and still allow it to be used as a draw engine in other decks. In Wild, making the 20/20 charging Boars cost 4 would give people a chance to do something rather than getting hit with 2 chargers with 20 attack on turn 4.
That would help with the Boar situation, but would open up new opportunities for abuse. Swapping stats and costs means cards that are expensive because of their Battlecry or Deathrattle would become good targets.
That's true! It's almost like they shouldn't have printed this card at all... Not sure how you change the card then without completely changing the effect or killing it. Which is too bad because it's an interesting idea. Maybe they will need to limit it to drawing minions of X mana cost or more, or less? If you say it only draws X mana cost or more, cheap minions that charge or copy aren't included? Or maybe the spell just draws any two minions but silences them in hand before swapping the stats? That eliminates battlecries, charge, and other big effects that you wouldn't want on a cheap minion that has been given a ton of stats, still keeps the spirit of the card, and could then at least give opponents a chance to react to the big, cheap minion. But then I have to ask, is this maybe too much and it kills the card?
I'm sorry but mech mage? That's the deck you guys are complaining about still?
Ramp druid is by far the strongest deck in the game, resulting in everyone trying to counter it, with middling success (mostly aggro dh).
Pirate warrior and mech mage are tier 2 at best, switcharoo priest (the highroll one) is a meme.
At least complain about the right decks, come on guys.
Well, everyone's experience in this game is not the same so please keep that in mind before posting condescending reactions to other people posting information regarding their personal experience. Personally I wasn't complaining, I was having a conversation (or trying to) about things I've been seeing. I did mention Switcheroo, yes, but perhaps Priest stuck out to me more because when I go to Wild that's about half of what I've been seeing there since launch. And while it may be a highroll deck, it's unfortunately highrolling fairly consistently or people wouldn't be playing it so much in Wild.
But yes, Standard Druid is still strong! It's not quite the same deck as it was before, but now seems focused on reducing the cost of the Naga Giants and then getting a ton of copies using the 2/4 minion once the giants are reduced in cost, which is not hard for them to do. That combined with Earthen Scales gives them a chance to build a big board while also getting a huge health boost. Then because they can get up to 20 mana, which I never understood who thought that would be okay ever, they can do things like Brann>Alex to face, Zola on Alex, and have two more Alex to face next turn if they have ramped enough. Not sure what my win rates have been against them, but it's probably bad. It's either hope I get an epic start so I can win very quickly, or hope they draw poorly or make a mistake.
But as I said in my other post here, the team is a lot faster at responding to balance issues now than in the past. I'm sure they'll be watching all the data over the first week or two and then taking swift action against whatever deck or card(s) they see as problematic. Regardless, I've still been having a fun time this first week just playing different stuff and working on achievements.
This early, Mecha-Shark and Switcheroo feels like potential nerf targes. Also, discover is super strong with this limited card pool, I think I discovered 4 new The Leviathan in the same game. But I haven't played a lot tbh.
I had a game recently where I played 4 Gaia, the Techtonic and I don't really think a single one of the four was from my deck
And that is one of the most annoying things with mech mage now. It's bad enough to deal with a t6 or t7 Gaia, but to deal with another one at t8... Now I'm not playing a T1 deck by far, but this feels like impossible to beat... Even when I get 2 7/7s online by t4/5 Vs an empty board I still get swarmed the turn after and get completely destroyed
Yeah, I have been playing a bunch of different stuff to try new things and to also hit some early achievements. But Mech Mage is definitely one of the stronger decks. Switcheroo shenanigans with Deathwing and the surfing murloc that copies are also just annoying. But so far the good news is that there are a lot of decks that seem to at least be viable. And while Mech Mage is by no means unbeatable, the match up against the deck you are playing may very well be highly unfavored for you. I feel like there is a trend where when a lot of archetypes are viable we tend to see higher numbers of polarized match ups. The biggest issue is when the meta starts to settle if those polarized match ups stick around or disappear, or if certain decks hold others back from existing at all.
It might take another week or so, but I can already imagine seeing some nerfs hit Mech Mage, maybe Pirate Warrior, and potentially Switcheroo to avoid too many crazy shenanigans in both Standard and Wild. I could see them increasing the cost of the spell, or maybe adding card costs as part of the swap. Swapping costs of the two minions would help mitigate the use of it to make two early 12/12s with Rush and still allow it to be used as a draw engine in other decks. In Wild, making the 20/20 charging Boars cost 4 would give people a chance to do something rather than getting hit with 2 chargers with 20 attack on turn 4.
As with any expansion there are unfortunately some issues that the team either didn't foresee or just didn't think would be so bad. But the good news is they have been a lot faster in recent years to respond, as opposed to the old way of waiting 2 months and then making one or two minor changes that either do nothing or completely kill cards.
I've also always kind of like Curse of Rafaam, even if it was underpowered, so I took to the Curse archetype pretty quick after launch. It just seemed like "cursing" your opponent was a cool concept. I did my own version of it in a custom card competition, I think it was based around building a "pure" archetype card for classes other than Paladin.
Flavor-wise I still like my idea a lot. It was like you were getting taxed for not returning the book, but the evil Librarian also wouldn't let you return it unless you paid him a ransom of the extra 3 mana. So you get him out of the way and then can return it for a lower late fee.
Obviously though, the Abyssal Curses are much better.
This early, Mecha-Shark and Switcheroo feels like potential nerf targes. Also, discover is super strong with this limited card pool, I think I discovered 4 new The Leviathan in the same game. But I haven't played a lot tbh.
I had a game recently where I played 4 Gaia, the Techtonic and I don't really think a single one of the four was from my deck
Been playing a lot of standard Curselock! So much that I’m done with that achievement!
The Druid list might be a good one for the Bottomfeeder achievement! Will have to try it.
I’ve been having fun with achievements this exp, where as the last year I completed only 53%, 50%, and 32% of achievements. Voyage is already at 23% complete! While I enjoy Wild, Standard has felt fairly fresh this week with a lot of new things and some experimentation. So been knocking them out in there. I did complete the Rogue “Food Fight Gone Wrong” quest in Wild yesterday by dealing lethal damage with Filletfighter.
Had considered a Naval Mine deck for Wild, but was more thinking Priest with all the DR rez effects, and then the Hero Xyrella’s effect. Get a mana reduction or two on Brann and/or Xyrella and just watch the opponent go Ba-BOOM! In fact, in the Warlock list, to just meme it up a little, play Dr.Boom and use Tamsin to do double the Phylactery. Naval Mine and Boom Bot! :D
But for real… with Phylactery existing, the design team really needs to think about neutral and warlock deathrattles and how they could be abused by Warlock. I doubt it’ll happen anytime soon but I wonder if in the future we see a nerf to the spell. If we get to a point where it’s needed, maybe just removing the Shadow tag to keep Tamsin from making a 0 mana copy would be enough.
A work around if anyone needs it: If you have a deck tracker you likely can copy the code from that and then go in to make anew deck. It should paste in the Classic deck, then delete the old one that is bugged.
That really is a super short window. Not even 24 hrs after launch?! I was on right at launch with the day off work, got golden Sir Finley as one of my random bundle legendaries. So really my bundle legendaries were one golden and pick two regular legendaries since I planned on grabbing the pass.
Check Faelin's dust refund amount. I got a golden Finley in the bundle and it was listed for a full refund amount as he's diamond in the battle pass (which I got too).
For me, the big bundle, saved gold, and other saved Standard packs make for a pretty good haul. Then I have a ton of dust saved, and just craft whatever I want and missed. Golden Gigafin though in packs! And a golden Nellie, the Great Thresher in the golden Standard pack from finishing the Mercenaries books.
I didn't even realize it got a +1 health buff! When did that happen?! Outside of any buffs in Core 2022 cards and the unnerfed cards going to Wild, I hadn't seen any other buffs listed anywhere.
If I'm being completely honest, I'm not sure what I think of the "wild only set" idea. Only because Wild is already a pretty powerful place. To make an expansion that is Wild Only, even if only some of the cards are actually new, they'd have to make them pretty powerful to see play in Wild. So with that in mind... why not just do normal, Standard sets like they do now? The handful of powerful cards that are either very strong on their own or boost existing Wild archetypes are kind of like the smaller set they would otherwise be making for Wild only anyway. The main difference I guess being that in a Wild Only set where only some of the cards are actually new, it'd be easier for Wild players who already have most or all of the older cards in that set to open packs and only get the new cards.
Ultimately I guess I'd have to see what they come up with.
Another idea could be adding a mini-set to each set that is pre-Outlands. Do two class cards for the original 9, four cards for DH, and then some neutrals. Then if you want them, buy some of the old packs or craft the card(s) you want!
I randomly got a golden Standard pack yesterday and I had finished BoM previously. I honestly didn't pay enough attention to notice if it said that's what it was for though. But maybe they added it in or debugged it.
Yeah... that was before things like Raid the Docks, Mr. Smite, and Defias Cannoneer were printed... Like I'm talking Ashes of Outland meta, maybe early into Scholomance. At that point in time the meta was different, Pirate Warrior wasn't as favored in the format. I think the most popular aggro deck then was the Pirate Druid deck, basically tokens but with pirates to get Patches and the parachuter out for free.
Anyway, hard to say if it could actually beat Pirate Warrior now, but back in the day it was able to squeak out a few wins against aggro. With To the Front! the deck could potentially make a comeback, but it'd probably still be too slow to ever do anything Wild these days.
That quest is kind of the reason I got more serious about HS. Not because I enjoyed playing it, but because I decided to craft it after it turned out to be so good, then I opened a copy a day later and I just hit DE on it. A few weeks later it got a nerf and I was like “I could have gotten 1200 more dust?!?!”
From there on out I was much more mindful about my collection, learned to play better with what I had, and so the hobby became a crippling addiction!
It's the new The Caverns Below, getting hit with incremental nerfs until they finally feel like it's under control.
The Warrior QL nerf is likely going to matter in the new Wild meta after the hit to Kael and the ban of Switcheroo. It was previously one of, if not the strongest decks in Wild. Now nerfing or removing two of the decks that would beat it means it would likely jump back up to the top. So while it may not seem needed right now, it should help create a better Wild after these other nerfs.
Kael revert to the nerf likely means the deck still sees play but is slowed down. Personally I think the long term problem for Blizzard when it comes to Druid is going to be Druid's ability to get 20 max mana, and as long as this is the case Team 5 will continuously find themselves having to nerf cards to limit Druid.
Also, because of how many "draw three" cards Druid has I wouldn't be opposed to Miracle Growth being either "draw two" or even "draw a card".
And lastly, Priest will be just fine! They are losing a shenanigans high roll deck, but they can go right back to playing Aggro Shadow Priest, Big Priest, or just regular old Inner Fire Priest. It's a shame that Switcheroo has to be hit like this because overall it's a cool concept, that had a lot of potential. I actually wanted to use it in a Mind Blast OTK Priest simply as a 3 mana draw two minions like you mentioned Priest needing above. But obviously the Switcheroo Boar deck was a bit too consistent on it's high rolling or they wouldn't have had to ban it in Wild or alter it to stop the abuse of the card in Standard.
This isn't really a site bug, but figured it was easier to post here than go through and report on 20 or so posts. But this user has been making a ton of spam posts, just FYI. I'm sure you noticed, but wanted to say something just in case.
That's true! It's almost like they shouldn't have printed this card at all... Not sure how you change the card then without completely changing the effect or killing it. Which is too bad because it's an interesting idea. Maybe they will need to limit it to drawing minions of X mana cost or more, or less? If you say it only draws X mana cost or more, cheap minions that charge or copy aren't included? Or maybe the spell just draws any two minions but silences them in hand before swapping the stats? That eliminates battlecries, charge, and other big effects that you wouldn't want on a cheap minion that has been given a ton of stats, still keeps the spirit of the card, and could then at least give opponents a chance to react to the big, cheap minion. But then I have to ask, is this maybe too much and it kills the card?
Well, everyone's experience in this game is not the same so please keep that in mind before posting condescending reactions to other people posting information regarding their personal experience. Personally I wasn't complaining, I was having a conversation (or trying to) about things I've been seeing. I did mention Switcheroo, yes, but perhaps Priest stuck out to me more because when I go to Wild that's about half of what I've been seeing there since launch. And while it may be a highroll deck, it's unfortunately highrolling fairly consistently or people wouldn't be playing it so much in Wild.
But yes, Standard Druid is still strong! It's not quite the same deck as it was before, but now seems focused on reducing the cost of the Naga Giants and then getting a ton of copies using the 2/4 minion once the giants are reduced in cost, which is not hard for them to do. That combined with Earthen Scales gives them a chance to build a big board while also getting a huge health boost. Then because they can get up to 20 mana, which I never understood who thought that would be okay ever, they can do things like Brann>Alex to face, Zola on Alex, and have two more Alex to face next turn if they have ramped enough. Not sure what my win rates have been against them, but it's probably bad. It's either hope I get an epic start so I can win very quickly, or hope they draw poorly or make a mistake.
But as I said in my other post here, the team is a lot faster at responding to balance issues now than in the past. I'm sure they'll be watching all the data over the first week or two and then taking swift action against whatever deck or card(s) they see as problematic. Regardless, I've still been having a fun time this first week just playing different stuff and working on achievements.
Yeah, I have been playing a bunch of different stuff to try new things and to also hit some early achievements. But Mech Mage is definitely one of the stronger decks. Switcheroo shenanigans with Deathwing and the surfing murloc that copies are also just annoying. But so far the good news is that there are a lot of decks that seem to at least be viable. And while Mech Mage is by no means unbeatable, the match up against the deck you are playing may very well be highly unfavored for you. I feel like there is a trend where when a lot of archetypes are viable we tend to see higher numbers of polarized match ups. The biggest issue is when the meta starts to settle if those polarized match ups stick around or disappear, or if certain decks hold others back from existing at all.
It might take another week or so, but I can already imagine seeing some nerfs hit Mech Mage, maybe Pirate Warrior, and potentially Switcheroo to avoid too many crazy shenanigans in both Standard and Wild. I could see them increasing the cost of the spell, or maybe adding card costs as part of the swap. Swapping costs of the two minions would help mitigate the use of it to make two early 12/12s with Rush and still allow it to be used as a draw engine in other decks. In Wild, making the 20/20 charging Boars cost 4 would give people a chance to do something rather than getting hit with 2 chargers with 20 attack on turn 4.
As with any expansion there are unfortunately some issues that the team either didn't foresee or just didn't think would be so bad. But the good news is they have been a lot faster in recent years to respond, as opposed to the old way of waiting 2 months and then making one or two minor changes that either do nothing or completely kill cards.
I've also always kind of like Curse of Rafaam, even if it was underpowered, so I took to the Curse archetype pretty quick after launch. It just seemed like "cursing" your opponent was a cool concept. I did my own version of it in a custom card competition, I think it was based around building a "pure" archetype card for classes other than Paladin.
Flavor-wise I still like my idea a lot. It was like you were getting taxed for not returning the book, but the evil Librarian also wouldn't let you return it unless you paid him a ransom of the extra 3 mana. So you get him out of the way and then can return it for a lower late fee.
Obviously though, the Abyssal Curses are much better.
So these decks are good right now, yet the Priest and Warlock decks got downvotes… Someone is just a little salty, huh?
I had a game recently where I played 4 Gaia, the Techtonic and I don't really think a single one of the four was from my deck
Been playing a lot of standard Curselock! So much that I’m done with that achievement!
The Druid list might be a good one for the Bottomfeeder achievement! Will have to try it.
I’ve been having fun with achievements this exp, where as the last year I completed only 53%, 50%, and 32% of achievements. Voyage is already at 23% complete! While I enjoy Wild, Standard has felt fairly fresh this week with a lot of new things and some experimentation. So been knocking them out in there. I did complete the Rogue “Food Fight Gone Wrong” quest in Wild yesterday by dealing lethal damage with Filletfighter.
Had considered a Naval Mine deck for Wild, but was more thinking Priest with all the DR rez effects, and then the Hero Xyrella’s effect. Get a mana reduction or two on Brann and/or Xyrella and just watch the opponent go Ba-BOOM! In fact, in the Warlock list, to just meme it up a little, play Dr.Boom and use Tamsin to do double the Phylactery. Naval Mine and Boom Bot! :D
But for real… with Phylactery existing, the design team really needs to think about neutral and warlock deathrattles and how they could be abused by Warlock. I doubt it’ll happen anytime soon but I wonder if in the future we see a nerf to the spell. If we get to a point where it’s needed, maybe just removing the Shadow tag to keep Tamsin from making a 0 mana copy would be enough.
A work around if anyone needs it: If you have a deck tracker you likely can copy the code from that and then go in to make anew deck. It should paste in the Classic deck, then delete the old one that is bugged.
That really is a super short window. Not even 24 hrs after launch?! I was on right at launch with the day off work, got golden Sir Finley as one of my random bundle legendaries. So really my bundle legendaries were one golden and pick two regular legendaries since I planned on grabbing the pass.
Check Faelin's dust refund amount. I got a golden Finley in the bundle and it was listed for a full refund amount as he's diamond in the battle pass (which I got too).
For me, the big bundle, saved gold, and other saved Standard packs make for a pretty good haul. Then I have a ton of dust saved, and just craft whatever I want and missed. Golden Gigafin though in packs! And a golden Nellie, the Great Thresher in the golden Standard pack from finishing the Mercenaries books.
I didn't even realize it got a +1 health buff! When did that happen?! Outside of any buffs in Core 2022 cards and the unnerfed cards going to Wild, I hadn't seen any other buffs listed anywhere.
Is that a deck that runs Worgen Greaser… on purpose?!?!
If I'm being completely honest, I'm not sure what I think of the "wild only set" idea. Only because Wild is already a pretty powerful place. To make an expansion that is Wild Only, even if only some of the cards are actually new, they'd have to make them pretty powerful to see play in Wild. So with that in mind... why not just do normal, Standard sets like they do now? The handful of powerful cards that are either very strong on their own or boost existing Wild archetypes are kind of like the smaller set they would otherwise be making for Wild only anyway. The main difference I guess being that in a Wild Only set where only some of the cards are actually new, it'd be easier for Wild players who already have most or all of the older cards in that set to open packs and only get the new cards.
Ultimately I guess I'd have to see what they come up with.
Another idea could be adding a mini-set to each set that is pre-Outlands. Do two class cards for the original 9, four cards for DH, and then some neutrals. Then if you want them, buy some of the old packs or craft the card(s) you want!
I randomly got a golden Standard pack yesterday and I had finished BoM previously. I honestly didn't pay enough attention to notice if it said that's what it was for though. But maybe they added it in or debugged it.
Are those not in packs either? Are Legacy packs just the original Classic set cards?
Yeah... that was before things like Raid the Docks, Mr. Smite, and Defias Cannoneer were printed... Like I'm talking Ashes of Outland meta, maybe early into Scholomance. At that point in time the meta was different, Pirate Warrior wasn't as favored in the format. I think the most popular aggro deck then was the Pirate Druid deck, basically tokens but with pirates to get Patches and the parachuter out for free.
Anyway, hard to say if it could actually beat Pirate Warrior now, but back in the day it was able to squeak out a few wins against aggro. With To the Front! the deck could potentially make a comeback, but it'd probably still be too slow to ever do anything Wild these days.