A new Demon Hunter card has been revealed by the Hearthstone Instagram.
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Comments
This is perhaps a better way of doing disruption, instead of its much more infamous cousin Glide. Having a small chance of losing a key card can be devastating, but at the same time its just one card, instead of an entire half of your hand. And this needs to be outcasted to have an effect or its just a vanilla 4/3.
Is this an auto include into most dhunter decks? In my opinion, no. Basically this affects value, not tempo itself, and a deckslot can only be justified if it manages to remove, say an AoE option from your opponent's hand, which you need to guess whether such exists in the first place, or otherwise its just a 4/3 that does little to nothing on board. Also, because its an outcast effect, its inclusion will likely only be seen in tempo dhunter, which can really use tempo and this really isn't it. Lastly, the much better Glide exists. If you want to screw your opponent's hand, just play Glide instead.
So on curve this is not that overwhelming, and off curve its only scary half the time. Don't get me wrong, making your opponent lose hand value can be quite devastating at key moments (like losing Wondrous Wand is basically game over) but any fast deck playing this would probably rather do face damage than affect hand value.
Now that I think about it...why the fuck wasn't Glide a legendary minion while this card gets relegated back to rare spell status? Might have saved all that oozing hate from all three hearthstone news sites.
Just realized from the comments it's actually outcast above all other problems with the card. Wow, now I'm 100% sure it won't be run even if people will experiment with it in the first week of the expansion.
Lets recount:
1) Legendary, so you can't rely on getting it AT ALL
2) A 4/3 for 4 is what no DH ever wants to run
3) Has to be outcast for the effect to work
4) Dead card against tempo or aggro, possibly 50% of the times at most mitigates the tempo loss against control
People should think before calling every DH card OP, I'm still having a hard time believing Glide is a card but this didn't phase me even before I realized it's outcast in addition to all the other things making it bad.
Actually, it opens up potential for a Control style DH. You're right, tempo and aggro will gloss this over and not put in the deck (maybe), but those of us who love Control are loving and hating cards like this. Youthful Brewmaster for double the "fun", depending on your perspective. Lol.
The problem with this going into a control deck however lies in the Outcast. Control decks typically have a large hand size, so getting the effect activated in a Control deck is more difficult, and would risk being a dead card in hand in too many situations. So, unless DH can figure out how to run a control list that also has small average hand sizes and massive draw, this won't be used in Control lists.
Confiscation, is that you?
Another one. DH just gets another way to screw you without you being able to do anything about. This is HS. It's a game where you have no way to answer your opponent's plays outside of your turn. This type of effect is extremely toxic for the game. Now they can handpick your most valuable protection or value tools (like Reno Jackson, board clears, Zephrys and so on) and get rid of them for free! You don't even get to draw a card! They just remove a card from your hand and you can only sit there and watch as they spit in your face while doing it! Even if it whiffs, it's still extremely advantageous to just diminish your opponent's hand size. And every card in a deck has a role. They are important in their own ways so you are still screwing whatever is the game plan of your opponent.
This has zero downside as well. It's always positive for them and bad for the opponent. Cards like King Mukla or Demonic Project are fine because they have their own downsides. You have the option of screwing your opponent but you put yourself at risk as well. That's fair for how this game works. This card and Glide are anything but fair. Also, Priest can look at your cards and gain copies of them but they don't disrupt your hand or deck in any way. It's okay if you don't like them using your cards against you but they are not interfering in your game plan in any way.
That's it. I'm gonna wait a week or more before even considering constructed. I'm just going to sit in the sidelines and watch the shitshow. I was considering a preorder but not anymore. Not gonna help them push this kind of stuff forward.
To be fair, people claimed the same thing about Zephyrs being too OP. Not only that, this ALSO gives you valuable information about what your opponent has in their hand.
They also lose plenty of tempo by playing a pretty worthless, easy to deal with minion on turn 4, which is a very important turn for anyone, but especially DH after it got more and more power plays moved to turn 6, which means they somehow have to maintain the board, and playing a 4 mana 4/3 doesn't come close to doing it, so they will make a sacrifice. I get it, if you have Blizzard in hand and they get it (about 50% maybe? You're probably going to have 6 cards in hand by turn 4 as mage, unless you have minions on the board which means you're aready at a better spot) they might get you that way, especially if you're highlander. I don't know if I'd run that as DH when against only control deck I have a 50% chance or less (against say, Quest warlock) to hit something really meaningful that would justify the tempo loss. against any non-control deck, this is even worse.
This has good applications against any deck. Against Control you can temporarily get rid of their board clears, win conditions or value cards. Against Combo you can remove one of their defensive cards or one of their key combo pieces after they have used most of their early draw and that is a big setback for them. And against Tempo/Aggro you can remove their finisher cards to buy yourself some extra time or get rid of a card that would fit nicely for their next mana curve which could make their next turn pretty awkward. This card is very versatile and i think that's enough to justify its inclusion in most DH decks.
Ok, lets go 1 by 1 -
1) You assume you will always get the control deck SINGLE (what kind of control deck is that??) big removal, but you just played a minion that took your entire turn 4 and can be killed by a 3/2, turn 2 minion, or a 2/1 + hero power in most decks. Oh, and getting this to outcast means your turns 1-3 were also sub optimal if not abysmal. Any control deck that can't set itself for a good state after 4 turns and losing one card, even if you could choose ANY card and not limited to 3, was bad to begin with.
2) I've played many combo decks, since beta. By turn 4, no combo deck, EVER, wanted to draw any part of the combo, that's actually bad enough in itself to make you lose. Recently, I played a hell of a lot of Quest Warlock. Never have I looked at my 8 card hand by turn 4 and said "good thing I have this 1 single removal because otherwise there was nothing I could do."
3) There's no leeroy anymore, aggro decks kill you slowly and consistently, without any single "finishers" they solely rely on. They kill your 4/3 with the obvious 2 drop, 3 attack minion or just go face and say "thanks for giving me a free turn 4, gg"
1 - You are just manipulating what i said. I stated clearly that there are many options to get rid of. Board clears, win condition cards, value cards. And i never said anything about single big removal. And Control decks aren't proactive. They usually don't play any minions in the earlier turns and when they do it's some kind of value minion with suboptimal stats. And we are talking about DH here. If you don't have complete and total control of the board in the early game then something has gone horribly wrong. Against Control decks you will almost always have a free turn 4 to drop this card. I agree that getting it to an outcast position can be tricky though.
2 - Even if you don't want your combo pieces you have no control over what you are going to draw. If it's that bad to draw a combo piece early then having it shuffled back into the deck is going to be even worse as you will need to draw it again later and you most likely already used some of your card draw by this point. And losing defensive cards is even more devastating for combo decks since they already struggle against aggro. Not every combo deck can afford slots for a lot of defensive cards. I have a Combo Priest deck in wild and i need every single one of my key cards. Because of this i only have 4 board clears (2 Mass Hysteria, 2 Psychic Scream) and 2 direct removals (2 Shadow Word: Death). I also run 2 Renew which can dig something helpful occasionally. I usually don't have more than one of them by turn 4 (and sometimes i just don't draw them at all). That means this card will completely screw me most of the time. I'm not saying the same applies to every deck.
3 - Aggro decks kill you slowly? You must be joking! Aggro DH used to just finish you off by turn 5 or 6. I don't know how it's doing after the recent nerfs. That deck had two consistent finishers: Metamorphosis (apparently the nerf was enough to kill it which i don't mind) and Kayn Sunfury. Burn spells are finishers as well. Kill Command, Fireball and so on. It's kinda baffling you mentioning Leeroy as if he was the only finisher that ever existed. Leeroy was the most popular and consistent card for that purpose but there are still plenty of options for aggro decks to finish you off. And again: if you are DH and don't have full control of the board by turn 4 then you are either extremely unlucky with draws or you made a terrible mistake. DH specializes in pushing every other deck off the board. But i agree that this card isn't the best option for a turn 4 play against aggro.
Will be very annoying to play against, but then again it isn't really hard to annoy a hearthstone player :P
I'm honestly just glad I misread it when I thought it was shuffling it into your deck.
Shhhhh....don't give Blizzard any ideas.
Honestly, I'm a fan of this card in a lot of ways. The one thing Hearthstone has always lacked was proper ways to interact with one's hand. We saw that earlier with Glide which most cases isn't going to be hand disruption and instead just reload in my opinion, but this is the first card to really feel like proper hand interaction. It's not pushed stat-wise, the ability provides an interesting play style in the same way Madame Lazul does and I overall really like that feeling.
The issue is that this thing is limited to DH. You could easily just change Outcast to a battlecry and if it becomes too strong, just hit the stats a little bit. This type of interaction would revolutionize Hearthstone, which I'd argue is for the better. This is a big whiff to me since given that its a legendary, it is safe to assume we won't see a similar effect for at least a year or two.
well, that's it
I'm gonna open my packs and stay away for the next two weeks after launch until Demon Hunter is nerfed out of existence.
Apparently glide wasn't bad enough, now you can just MINUS YOUR OPPONENT'S HAND for basically free while also getting intel on the rest of their cards. No way to play around it.
Hand advantage is EVERYTHING in Hearthstone and the Hand is the only thing that never gets fucked with. This has been an unspoken rule. Mill has been deleted from standard and any sort of enemy hand manipulation is spread far and few between and can at least be played around (aka Mukla, and the Demon from DoD that noone plays)
This violates so many design principles it's not even funny.
And you know what the worst thing is? If it wasn't for Glide I wouldn't even be mad. As a 1-of legendary this would be fine to print (even if it would have to be nerfed to 5-mana eventually)...but with Glide in the mix you are literally unable to play Control vs Demon Hunter.
They'll keep punching you in the face and reemove all options to you have to deal with them. Taunt? Kayn. Go Wide? Altruis. PLay bigger stuff? Kreen.
Fuck it, bring back Mill Rogue and old Yogg while you're at it. Unnerf all Druid cards and revert Warsong Commander. Rules mean nothing, it's a 1v9 meta.
Glide is far worse than this, and both are useless against non-control decks. Don't stay away, just play a midrange deck and watch DHs play against you when they're weaker if they run those sole purpose anti-control cards.
Don't think I would've run thi even if I was guaranteed 100% control deck matchups, unlike Glide.
Funny, I feel the other way around. I think this will be an auto include in any fast DH deck (at least any that wants to make use of Outcast) while Glide is the one that potentially might end up as a tech choice (and would still be idiotic bullshit).
This will ALWAYS turn out to be "scry your opponent's hand then minus 1 them" so it's impossible to be bad...at least not at this mana cost.
You don't play this as a counter to anything specific (at least not until you need to), you play this whenever it fits into your curve just so you can ruin your opponent's hand. It's basically Dr. Boom for DH. There is no downside, just benefits.
If you think that playing a 4/3 for 4 mana is not a huge downside in itself in a tempo deck, this debate is useless.
Like I stated earlier, the chance to actually get to pick what you want the opponent to discard most is 50% at best, since what control deck to best is draw cards, second is having multiple clears. you don't just make them lose the exact card you want, and even if you do, since they can so easily deal with your tempo loss by playing this card (providing you somehow got it to outcast in the first place by making optimal plays at turns 1-2-3) they can deal with drawing that big removal they needed a little later.
It's not a downside if it has a purpose. Spellbreaker wasn't a downside in tempo decks if it hit something mildly relevant.
This isn't 2015 Hearthstone anymore, you can play below average stats if the effect is go d enough.