Double Identity - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Submitted 2 years, 7 months ago by
ShadowsOfSense
Competition Theme: Double Identity
We've a lot of classes in need of help at the minute, so it's time to put some heroes on double shifts!
- You must create a Dual Class Hero Card
- It's as simple as that! You can combine whatever two classes you like - don't feel beholden to the pairings we saw in Scholomance.
MrRhapsody is looking for some cards which really bridge the gap between classes this week - it'll take a heroic effort to satisfy them!
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
- Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 9 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, May 14 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, May 14 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, May 15 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, May 15 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, May 16 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.
Discussion Thread Rules
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Competition Theme: Double Identity
We've a lot of classes in need of help at the minute, so it's time to put some heroes on double shifts!
MrRhapsody is looking for some cards which really bridge the gap between classes this week - it'll take a heroic effort to satisfy them!
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
Welcome to the site!
Going a different direction; not happy with my Felfire Ragnaros. I'll keep it in the above spoiler, as per Wailor's suggestion.
A Hero card with multi-targeting! Both Warlock and Warrior have been known to sacrifice their minions in the pursuit of victory, whether directly via Dark Pact or as a consequence of something else like Brawl. They've both dabbled with Carnivorous Cube, as well. Rebuild wants you to kill off specific minions so you can try to revive something chunky, so a Big Demon Warlock deck or a Big Warrior might be a good idea.
Simple prompt, but quite hard honestly. Here's my first take on it.
I'm assuming the Battlecry takes place after the armor gain, so at least he always gains +5 Attack. The Hero Power makes use of two keywords which both Warrior and Druid usually make use of.
No worries: I deleted Felfire Ragnaros and edited in a different card in its place lol.
I could see your card featured in some silly OTK involving the Linecracker 2000+ Armor combo, plus Silas Darkmoon and Soulbound Ashtongue haha. Why wait them out when you can inflict 2000+ damage to their face and just end things :D
I still think you should include Fel Rag in spoiler, at least. It wasn't a bad card, even if I prefer your new one.
As for the OTK, wouldn't something like Shield Slam still do the trick?
Well, Shield Slam is a Warrior card, while Earthen Scales (to get all that Armor) is a Druid card. You can do the combo in Warrior - and people have been doing it since Silas came out - but not for 2000+ damage.
Take a moment to see how many crazy things you can think of with this card. The most important thing though is, does the effect make sense?
I feel like the fact that it's a fairly small hero card, as well as not having 4 lines of text, will probably make it stand out among most entries in this comp.
Felfire Ragnaros is really cool aesthetically, though I do agree that it has a LOT of face damage potential and both classes have ways of being able to utilize it effectively.
Mecha-Mannoroth is cool, although I agree with what you said before about only killing one minion with its effect throughout the whole game, and continually resurrecting it.
So it looks like my comment about my card standing out for being small may not be true after all.
I really like this card though. It's simple, yet its effective and interesting. 5 stars from me.
A quick idea for my mashup. I just had to immediately use the Dreadlord Jaina's art. :>
So the idea is that her HP and Battlecry benefit both classes - DH can use her as a followup after Sigil of Reckoning (preferably, since that was my intent :>), and Jaina got a push for expensive spells in Alterac Valley. HP benefits Mage more, albeit Demon Hunter can also use it for some quick chip damage and a 2/2, all for 1 Mana, not to mention Demon synergies.
"Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me
"If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me
Anduin in the lore naturally evolves to a paladin or paladin/priest hybrid, and so this comp is the perfect occasion to show that. Combines life gain, weapons, removal, summoning dudes and holy spell synergy! The latter is more a paladin thing nowadays but i'm still hoping holy priest becomes a thing.
Feedback:
I'll boop you
Looks like I'll be able to participate this week. Here's my first idea:
In Standard there are 2 good outcomes from the Beast pool (Frostsaber Matriarch, Mountain Bear), 1 is okay (Thickhide Kodo), 4 are meh (Ironfur Grizzly, Silverback Patriarch, Encumbered Pack Mule, Toad of the Wilds). I could use a cost restriction to influence the outcome, but I prefer the textbox to not get too crammed.
Feedback would be very welcome, I've got one or two more interesting art pieces if Zaela doesn't vibe with you people. I'll add some thoughts of my own about your cards soonish.
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Feedback time!
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Ah, I was worried the wording might not have been clear enough. Seems like my suspicions were correct. So, what happens is that it draws a Battlecry minion and then it starts a chain of effects copied. For example.
So, how many broken combos can you envision with this thing? hehehe
Extra feedback.
I do think the Battlecry is a bit too random for my tastes, and I do think Wild makes it worse. You could summon either a Witch's Apprentice, or a… Winged Guardian. That said, this type of design is just natural Hearthstone and if you want to embrace how dumb Hearthstone randomness can get, then I wouldn't fault you for it. It feels like something Team 5 would try to print.
The Hero Power seems finely balanced, although it's a bit strange seeing as how neither Warrior nor Hunter uses Freeze effects (other than Snowed In which just stands out poorly if you ask me).
The Hero Power could be considered a direct upgrade for both classes, since they both give 1 Attack to your hero, but now for free. Of course its main point is that the effect is active during your opponents turn as well, allowing you to put a little bit of pressure on the enemy board even during your opponent's turn.
Gues I'm going with a Warlock card again, just not sure which version to go.
The idea is that Mohg extracts his blood to increase his powers, the perfect illustration of a Blood Mage.
And I knew the theme only looks simple at first glance when I suggested it, so if any one is struggling with ideas, I'll leave a piece of a FCS interview I did about Elden Ring heroes, which were all dual class heroes (and by the way, the thread recently got updated with a new hero, go take a look!) I hope it helps to inspire someone.
Feedback coming soon.
Do you also like Elden Ring? Then you should check out my Elden Ring inspired Duels Heroes!
An update on my submission. Now it should be more balanced, as admittedly Jaina having huge Taunts was a big no-no. Now it instead plays out on both classes using higher-Cost spells like Inner Demon or Rune of the Archmage. The Hero Power is also more balanced, giving you a 1/1 Vigilante with HP and not a 2/2 with Taunt like it did, whilst still enabling Wildfire and Reckless Apprentice shenanigans for Mage and some token-based ones for Demon Hunter due to the Vigilante being naturally small for them.
"Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me
"If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me
Feedback time! As a general comment, I see many cards that could easily be mono-class, which kinda defeats the point of the competition.
Regarding to class identity, it feels more Shaman than Rogue. Maybe the Hero Power could remedy that somehow, as the current one doesn't fit any class particularly.
Despite that, I like the card, even if it could easily be monoclass Paladin.
Talking about negatives, I have similar concerns as Demon:
My main issue is the Hero Power: while having Attack in your opponent's turn is quite novel, given it's only 1, it'll rarely have an impact. Honestly, I'd probably make it active during your turn, because having such a new concept being almost negligible feels worse than not having it at all.
Regarding the Battlecry, I wonder if it happens just twice or if it would keep going. Conceptually, I like the later (you have to keep making decisions of whether it's worth to lose Health or not), but it could get out of hand very easily, especially with the Hero Power and in the case of Mage (which has a lot of damaging spells). Maybe the card should cost more if this is the case. Also, an alternative effect could be: "Add three random spells from your class to your hand. They cost Health instead of Mana this turn."
Regarding the HP, I like how Warlock has an easier time triggering it, but Mage is better at abusing it.
I think this should clear it up now since it reads the same way as Dragonrider Talritha. As for the Hero Power, my alternatives were either a Shadowstep or Shadowcaster effect (which might make the Rogue side of the card a bit more obvious), which both seem fairly dangerous as a Hero Power. That said, for people thinking about the balance of those two ideas, the extra effects are applied as enchantments and therefore wouldn't persist if you returned them to the hand or copied them.
Feedback
I think both of these designs are quite sound, but unfortunately your first one has a pretty major roadblock: Violet Illusionist.
Your second design is definitely safer. Some people might be irked at the fact that you're giving Mage a Lifesteal card, but this particular instance doesn't really bother me so much. Unfortunately though, there isn't really a way to Mage to use the Hero Power since they don't have the self-damage that Warlock does.
These dual-class prompt are always though.
About the multi-targeting, I don't think Hearthstone will use it on any complex cards any time soon. Current cards' effects are more focused around it.
I do see an issue with the Hero Powers. The second one is too abusable and Mage will never really profit from the first.
I'll try to make one or two alternative Hero Powers later.
I certainly was able to work this out in my brain a lot easier than the last version of this. Still don't know how broken this is, but it does seem cool.
I think people got confused by my first card, so I'll give a proper explanation:
The Battlecry works the same as Instructor Fireheart, and it synergizes with the Hero Power! So for example: If cast 3 spells with the Battlecry, you'll have Spell Damage +3 for the rest of the game, and the more damage you take from the battlecry, the more Spell Damage you'll have. Would Mage REALLY not benefict from a permanent Spell Damage +3? But that's ok, here's a new version, it works the same as the first one, except the Battlecry and the Hero Power are switched, so with all explanations given, should I go with the first version or this one? ( since I'm not really happy with the second).
And now, my feedback:
Do you also like Elden Ring? Then you should check out my Elden Ring inspired Duels Heroes!
Alright so, seems most people did not vibe with the weapon. That kinda makes me sad because, it's impossible to not include Shalamayne in a dual class King Anduin card. it's iconic! So, here is a new idea:
This version is a bit less paladin-ish. yes you still get a weapon but you have a choice! Swing it for 3 heal on a single target or wait out for the radiating damage instead. If the enemy has a couple or no minions attacking is better. But if they have a full board and generally play a swarmy deck, not swinging is more beneficial. My idea of making a weapon that can also be more caster/passive (how priest usually has them).
Now onto the Hero power. This i'm afraid that people won't realize what it does. it doesn't heal, It gives Health! So you can both make yourself and a minion tankier, playing more into that buffer/high health theme. The fact your max hp can go over 30 now means healing stuff is also better to play in your deck, less wasted value on overheal, something both paladin and priest love.
Finally the battlecry. Just wanted to reinforce the Holy synergy, still keep that in.
I'll boop you
Struggling with this one to find an idea I truly like. With that in mind, I came up with another card: It's Daelin Proudmoore, Father of Jaina and major hater of the Horde. So consumed by vengeance, he could not see that the Horde was trying to change its ways; eventually Rexxar and his allies were forced to put him down.
The Battlecry is nice draw, but you have to be behind on the board for it to have max effectiveness: this means it won't be nearly as good for Aggro players. Gameplay-wise, the way I see it, the Hero Power Discovers a Secret of either class, and that gets mixed with a Secret from the other class with the same trigger. So if you pick Dirty Tricks, it can combine with Pressure Plate or Cat Trick. Would come with other Secrets, of course, to fill out the options.
This took longer than I thought; meant to include feedback in this post but I'm really tired.
My card was rightfully perceived as weak, so I made two new versions.
The first version is basically AeroJulwin's idea with a cost increase of 1. I think it was a pretty good suggestion, but has the issue of surpassing Druid's AoE weakness.
The second one simply reduces the Mana cost to 3, which is more appropriate for the power level of the card. However, I think such a low cost is a bit scary for a Hero card, especially considering its combo potential (even if it seems to require a lot of cards to pull off).
Both versions keep the original HP, which was the best part of the card, IMO.
Some late feedback:
Keep in mind that the power level now is significantly lower, though. Not being able to chain infinite spells is a good change, but now you also need to pay 2 extra Mana for the card to have an effect at all in the turn it's played. I'm quite bad at balancing, but you could consider reducing the Cost to 6 Mana.
My suggestion would be to make Shalamayne's effect trigger whenever you cast a Holy spell. This gives you more control over the effect and makes the Battlecry feel much more cohesive.
The only thing I'm not convinced about is the character. I always felt Admiral Proudmoore was a Paladin-Shaman hybrid, at least from his incarnation in Warcraft 3. A better character would be Tess Greymane, I believe, as she was already a Rogue-Hunter hybrid and had a lot of Secret synergies in the Monster Hunt mode.
Thank you Wailor for mentioning Tess' dual-roles in Monster Hunt: that really helped me finish the card in a way that made me happy :)
Rather late feedback, so I'll keep it short:
Wailor - I prefer the 5-mana version with the Cleave. Cool card.
BasilAnguis - Your Hero card has the Classic/Legacy watermark. I also agree with Wailor.
MrRhapsody - Your latest version is best. Harder for the Mage to utilize, but they benefit more from the SD.
Demonxz95 - This seems nuts, especially for the Shaman given Brilliant Macaw and Shudderwock. Could we see an hour-long Battlecry play out?
Neoguli - Saw your submission: hopefully there are enough Neutral Demons for the Mage to utilize the Battlecry.
AeroJulwin - We'll see "Hero attack on enemy turn" effects until it finally happens lol. The Hero Power could maybe be a +2 instead, but I'm nit-picking.
anchorm4n - Your submitted version is much more consistent and the Hero Power makes more sense. Nicely done.
I didn't notice that it was necessary to create a hero card. Facepalm.
You have 24 hours and 38 seconds to submit!
Good luck to the finalists :)
Congratulations to Loknax!
Hey, a brand new face joins our list of winners!
I've opened up a feedback thread for you all to talk about how you believe the competitions can be improved. Historically, we haven't had enough time to implement changes and a large part of that is because our down-time tends to be taken up with expansion reveal seasons, so asking during the season as opposed to after it should give us a lot more time to discuss the finer details and for us to be more actively involved with you guys in how these competitions are run.
https://outof.cards/forums/fan-creations/custom-hearthstone/20921-wcdc-season-5-feedback-thread