Tracking - is it worth it?

Submitted 5 years, 6 months ago by

Hi everyone,

Although already a bit experienced in the game and with hunter, I never got why everyone puts this into decks. Discard 2 cards, really? If someone can explain me I would be very grateful.

  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    Hi everyone,

    Although already a bit experienced in the game and with hunter, I never got why everyone puts this into decks. Discard 2 cards, really? If someone can explain me I would be very grateful.

    1
  • Hydrafrog's Avatar
    Gul'dan 1840 3268 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    So... first off, I REALLY do not like playing Hunter.  To me it's the worst class by far.  With that in mind, I am trying to get my Golden Hunter class and I have learned to like Tracking because it allows you to root through the top 3 cards of your deck and grab the 1 that you need at that moment.  I only do it when I am looking to get the situational kill card.  For example, my opponent is down to 6 life, I have 7 mana... I'm digging for Leeroy Jenkins or Kill Command

    3
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.

     

    That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.

    11
  • Jaybaseball1's Avatar
    225 54 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    It depends on the deck, but generally, I'd say yes. It is great, because it allows you to filter cards out of your deck, and find what you need based on the situation. Sure, sometimes you get hosed and you're forced to discard 2 good cards, but 90% of the time it's great.

    E.g. I get to filter through my Unleash the Hounds in the warrior matchup, or maybe I can have a good chance of finding Leeroy Jenkins for lethal. 

    TLDR; It's generally a great card because of it's selection and ability to find you what you need based on the situation.

    1
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.

     

    That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.

    This is the best answer.

    Tracking is low-key the best Hunter card in basic/classic, and most decks should always play 2x. The caveat being Zul'jin. A number of midrange hunter decks cut a copy of Tracking so Zul'jin won't deck them out in long games. Personally, I still play 2x Tracking in every deck with Zul'jin, and I just won't play both copies against Warrior. But Warrior (and sometimes Shaman) are the only times this tends to come up.

    As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?

    3
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar
    1095 819 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
    Quote From RandomGuy

    As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?

    What would you call it then? It's too slow for aggro and too fast for control and it doesn't have an OTK or massive combo.

    2
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    Beast Hunter plays more like a combo deck or Miracle rogue than a typical midrange deck IMO. There are very few proactive threats you just want to plonk on the board on turns 3-6, which is the defining feature of traditional midrange, and most of the deck consists of very efficient reactive cards that allow you to generate tempo off of your opponents plays: Unleash the hounds, unleash the beast, etc.

     

    It's a bit of a hole in the hearthstone lexicon that there's no better term for decks that present big power spikes in the mid game that aren't just big efficient proactive minions. Miracle rogue used to be the only deck like this but now we have several. I'd consider conjurer mage and miracle shaman to fall into this same combo-midrange category.

    1
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
    Quote From iWatchUSleep
    Quote From RandomGuy

    As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?

    What would you call it then? It's too slow for aggro and too fast for control and it doesn't have an OTK or massive combo.

    I think I would consider it  closer to control at this point.
    It's basically all removal, card draw, life gain, and value generation. (A lot of the removal just happens to be on a 1/1 body. )
    I don't think it's that fast, outside of an early Hyena stealing games.

    2
  • Megatron's Avatar
    135 29 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    Always. It gives lethal 100% of the time.

    0
  • KANSAS's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
    Quote From FuRenz

    Hi everyone,

    Although already a bit experienced in the game and with hunter, I never got why everyone puts this into decks. Discard 2 cards, really? If someone can explain me I would be very grateful.

    it is wrong to think about it as discarding two cards. the truth is, you never had those cards. You are not discarding them, you are just not drawing them. it is one mana to choose one card out of three from your deck to draw. sure, you are removing two cards from your deck, but that it just making your deck more consistent. and in mid-range/aggro hunter, where the card is most commonly used, you don't really have any must-draw cards. everything is expendable. so not having drawn those two cards is not much of a downside because you are just drawing different cards instead. 

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    3
  • tony's Avatar
    Banned 175 130 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    I agree with almost everything in favor of tracking that has been said in this thread except for that "Lethal 100% of the time" comment which I think was an attempt at sarcasm. I laughed a little, anyway, because if you've ever faced a Hunter using tracking late game and you're down on health you've probably held your breath a little!

    In my attempt to be helpful, I'll share how I use it in my Hunter decks and the reason why I might not include it. Not including it has nothing to with discarding cards. As a lot of people have mentioned, you're not really discarding them because you haven't received them in your hand yet. The concept behind using it wisely is this: You don't need all the cards in your deck to win the match. You need the right cards. Tracking helps you get the right card when you need it.

    Here is a list of how, when, and why I play tracking. I hope it helps the OP out in the quest for the Golden Rexxar (keep in mind I don't play in Wild format):

    1. Mulligan: I hardly ever keep Tracking unless I think I'll need it early on in the game. If I suspect I might need it early on in the game it's because I'm going first so I don't have an extra card with a coin and the situation makes me think I might want to keep a card that costs 4+ so I keep the 4-mana card and Tracking so I can fish for something to play on turn 3 or 5 if necessary. An example: I think my Mage opponent is going to have a Mountain Giant. A spell dealing 4 or more damage to a minion is a keeper because I probably don't need to put anything on the board on turns 1 or 2. For most situations, it's better to throw the Tracking back into the deck and draw something else because Tracking is a good late game card and not so good early in the game.
    2. Against Bomb Warrior or any other opponent that shuffles cards into my deck: After my opponent has shuffled a lot of garbage into my deck I look for a chance to play Tracking. This allows me to eliminate the bombs or whatever other damaging cards that were shuffled in and I can draw a useful card.
    3. Bomb or Mech Hunter: Tracking is very handy for fishing for Leeroy, Venomizer, or any other necessary card that can be used to wipe the board or finish off the opponent.
    4. Midrange Hunter: A good late game card to use when you're in need of the card you know is in there but hasn't surfaced. The later into the game you play your Tracking, the better your chances will be of finding what you're looking for and disregarding what you don't need because your deck is lower on cards. It isn't really for card draw anymore because of Master's Call, which is far better for that need to draw cards. This is why a lot of Midrange decks only have one copy of Tracking these days (or none at all).
    5. Secret Hunter: Tracking is not useful for this deck, usually, if you have Subject 9, so it isn't usually included in the deck.

    A lot ofplayers that don't have a lot of experience with Hunter or with Hearthstone often use Tracking when they're going first and have only 1 mana available, thinking that this is a good way to use a turn that would otherwise be passed without playing anything. This is usually not the best way to use Tracking. Tracking is much more powerful, in most situations, later in the game. 

    I hope this helps a little and good luck in getting your golden hero! I'm working on getting Rogue and Warrior golden portraits at the moment.

    5
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    ^ I've seen plenty of pro players hold Tracking on the mulligan and play it on turn one. Of course the difference between competitive play and ladder is that you typically know what your opponent is playing, often down to the exact decklist, so you can formulate a game-plan and anticipate what cards you are going to need several turns from now.

    Still, I don't think holding tracking is a rookie mistake per se, I think the real distinction is in whether the player makes the correct decision when offered a tough choice or just picks the Zul'Jin ten times out of ten.

    1
  • tony's Avatar
    Banned 175 130 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^ I've seen plenty of pro players hold Tracking on the mulligan and play it on turn one. Of course the difference between competitive play and ladder is that you typically know what your opponent is playing, often down to the exact decklist, so you can formulate a game-plan and anticipate what cards you are going to need several turns from now.

    Still, I don't think holding tracking is a rookie mistake per se, I think the real distinction is in whether the player makes the correct decision when offered a tough choice or just picks the Zul'Jin ten times out of ten.

    I totally agree with you and I don't think I've said anything that contradicts what you're saying. There are lots of examples in Hearthstone history to show that playing Tracking on turn 1 can be a really good idea. My hypothetical for Standard is a good example: you're facing a mage and it could be the type that drops a huge minion early. You can keep yourTracking in your mulligan plus any high-cost spell and use the Tracking card early, even on turn 1. This could also be true for when you suspect your opponent is going to be a control deck. Right now in Standard it's tough to mulligan when facing Shaman (Control? Murloc? Big), another Hunter (Secret? Mech? etc?), Rogue (Hooktusk?Chef Nomi? Pogo? Combo?), Mage (because "Tempo Mage" variants are suddenly returning because players have started to get the idea that they see a mage so it must be conjurer, so now a lot of mage decks start out looking like big spell or tempo and then build up a big board).

    IMHO, one thing to learn from this thread is that it's never a mistake to throw the Tracking card back into the deck in the mulligan phase simply because there are a lot of times when you don't know what archetype you're facing and Tracking is in fact much more powerful later in the game in a lot of situations. Now, let's say you mulligan and after that you draw a Tracking. You read the game and decide an early Tracking play is a good idea. There you go. Beneficial early Tracking play.

    When I say I think it's a mistake to play early is when it's just something a player does to spend the mana on turn 1. That's not a good play. You play a card when you think you have a plan. Just throwing a Tracking out there on turn 1 just because you have 1 mana is not really a well-thought-out play, don't you think

    0
  • FortyDust's Avatar
    Pumpkin 1205 1912 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
    Quote From tony

    When I say I think it's a mistake to play early is when it's just something a player does to spend the mana on turn 1. That's not a good play. You play a card when you think you have a plan. Just throwing a Tracking out there on turn 1 just because you have 1 mana is not really a well-thought-out play, don't you think

    This.

    Players who don't get why Tracking is a decent card are probably doing this. If you learn to use it well, you'll begin to see how powerful it is.

    That said, I don't think it's correct to put two in every deck. Tracking is most useful when you are looking to enable combos and exploit synergies. If you're playing a more homogeneous deck (such as some of the aggro decks from days of yore), it may not be worth the mana. When every card advances your strategy, there's no need to go fishing.

    2
  • Grumpy000's Avatar
    1880 1159 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    I hated Tracking when playing the Deathrattle Beast hunter

    With few beast in te deck the possibility to discard one or two of them was a disaster - with all other decks it's a ok card - never mulligan for it, but later in the game the possibility to chose a card can be vital

    I am 69 years old and still reach Legend

    1
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
    Quote From FortyDust
    Quote From tony

    When I say I think it's a mistake to play early is when it's just something a player does to spend the mana on turn 1. That's not a good play. You play a card when you think you have a plan. Just throwing a Tracking out there on turn 1 just because you have 1 mana is not really a well-thought-out play, don't you think

    This.

    Players who don't get why Tracking is a decent card are probably doing this. If you learn to use it well, you'll begin to see how powerful it is.

    That said, I don't think it's correct to put two in every deck. Tracking is most useful when you are looking to enable combos and exploit synergies. If you're playing a more homogeneous deck (such as some of the aggro decks from days of yore), it may not be worth the mana. When every card advances your strategy, there's no need to go fishing.

    I disagree with your last statement on 2 grounds: (1) even aggro decks contain internal synergies that you want to combine. For example Beast + Kill Command, Knife Juggler + Unleashed, Mech on board + something big to magnetize; (2) aggro decks are usually floating a lot of mana. You can afford a 1-mana tracking to fish for better plays.

    3
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 5 years, 6 months ago

    ^Aggro decks are also far more likely to gas out so the card draw function of tracking is more pertinent to them. if you're out of cards on turn 5 you really really want to draw Highmane, Leeroy or Kill Command and not some dopey 1 drop.

    4
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    First, thanks to all of the inputs I got here, just realized today someone had answered (no notifications whatsoever) and was very surprised by all these constructive responses!
    That said, I'll try and answer all of the comments.
    Again,thank you all!

    0
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From Hydrafrog

    So... first off, I REALLY do not like playing Hunter.  To me it's the worst class by far.  With that in mind, I am trying to get my Golden Hunter class and I have learned to like Tracking because it allows you to root through the top 3 cards of your deck and grab the 1 that you need at that moment.  I only do it when I am looking to get the situational kill card.  For example, my opponent is down to 6 life, I have 7 mana... I'm digging for Leeroy Jenkins or Kill Command

    True, this is the way I've been trying to use it, but I really hate when, for example, I have nothing to play except tracking and I get those two cards out of it, having to dispose one of them.

    0
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.

     

    That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.

    Has said above, it's that FeelsBadMan feeling I can't get over with, but after all the answers, I think I start to understand better the reasoning behind it

    0
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From Jaybaseball1

    It depends on the deck, but generally, I'd say yes. It is great, because it allows you to filter cards out of your deck, and find what you need based on the situation. Sure, sometimes you get hosed and you're forced to discard 2 good cards, but 90% of the time it's great.

    E.g. I get to filter through my Unleash the Hounds in the warrior matchup, or maybe I can have a good chance of finding Leeroy Jenkins for lethal. 

    TLDR; It's generally a great card because of it's selection and ability to find you what you need based on the situation.

    One of the situations I really find it usefull is against bomb warriors, with 3+ bombs in deck that I need to get rid of. Thanks!

    0
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From RandomGuy
    Quote From AliRadicali

    The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.

     

    That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.

    This is the best answer.

    Tracking is low-key the best Hunter card in basic/classic, and most decks should always play 2x. The caveat being Zul'jin. A number of midrange hunter decks cut a copy of Tracking so Zul'jin won't deck them out in long games. Personally, I still play 2x Tracking in every deck with Zul'jin, and I just won't play both copies against Warrior. But Warrior (and sometimes Shaman) are the only times this tends to come up.

    As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?

    It really hurts having Zul'jin burning the rest of the deck... Then again, I understand that against warrior, if one is reaching the point of playing Zul'jin, the game is lost nonetheless :

    0
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From doingtheobvious

    Tracking fills the niche of card draw of a class defined by poor card draw (just counting the basic & classic set). Even though it is not particularly good for that purpose, it still sees use because there aren't a lot of really good alternatives that don't require specific conditions to be met (read: Quick Shot and Master's Call).

    tl;dr: How you hunter is you topdeck like a GOD. Tracking is not the greatest tool, but it can help you get the resources you need, when you need them.

    e: If it decides it likes the cut of your jib, that is :\

    So, basically a "YOLO" card. Seems fair, one just must be aware of the consequences and play it when it feels needed. Thanks!

    1
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From MalcolmReynolds
    Quote From FuRenz

    Hi everyone,

    Although already a bit experienced in the game and with hunter, I never got why everyone puts this into decks. Discard 2 cards, really? If someone can explain me I would be very grateful.

    it is wrong to think about it as discarding two cards. the truth is, you never had those cards. You are not discarding them, you are just not drawing them. it is one mana to choose one card out of three from your deck to draw. sure, you are removing two cards from your deck, but that it just making your deck more consistent. and in mid-range/aggro hunter, where the card is most commonly used, you don't really have any must-draw cards. everything is expendable. so not having drawn those two cards is not much of a downside because you are just drawing different cards instead. 

    I see that I have still much to learn about playing hunter. I get really attached to all the cards that I get in a deck when playing to win, and in this thread I've come to realize aggro hunter has a different mindset to obey. Thanks

    0
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From tony

    I agree with almost everything in favor of tracking that has been said in this thread except for that "Lethal 100% of the time" comment which I think was an attempt at sarcasm. I laughed a little, anyway, because if you've ever faced a Hunter using tracking late game and you're down on health you've probably held your breath a little!

    In my attempt to be helpful, I'll share how I use it in my Hunter decks and the reason why I might not include it. Not including it has nothing to with discarding cards. As a lot of people have mentioned, you're not really discarding them because you haven't received them in your hand yet. The concept behind using it wisely is this: You don't need all the cards in your deck to win the match. You need the right cards. Tracking helps you get the right card when you need it.

    Here is a list of how, when, and why I play tracking. I hope it helps the OP out in the quest for the Golden Rexxar (keep in mind I don't play in Wild format):

    1. Mulligan: I hardly ever keep Tracking unless I think I'll need it early on in the game. If I suspect I might need it early on in the game it's because I'm going first so I don't have an extra card with a coin and the situation makes me think I might want to keep a card that costs 4+ so I keep the 4-mana card and Tracking so I can fish for something to play on turn 3 or 5 if necessary. An example: I think my Mage opponent is going to have a Mountain Giant. A spell dealing 4 or more damage to a minion is a keeper because I probably don't need to put anything on the board on turns 1 or 2. For most situations, it's better to throw the Tracking back into the deck and draw something else because Tracking is a good late game card and not so good early in the game.
    2. Against Bomb Warrior or any other opponent that shuffles cards into my deck: After my opponent has shuffled a lot of garbage into my deck I look for a chance to play Tracking. This allows me to eliminate the bombs or whatever other damaging cards that were shuffled in and I can draw a useful card.
    3. Bomb or Mech Hunter: Tracking is very handy for fishing for Leeroy, Venomizer, or any other necessary card that can be used to wipe the board or finish off the opponent.
    4. Midrange Hunter: A good late game card to use when you're in need of the card you know is in there but hasn't surfaced. The later into the game you play your Tracking, the better your chances will be of finding what you're looking for and disregarding what you don't need because your deck is lower on cards. It isn't really for card draw anymore because of Master's Call, which is far better for that need to draw cards. This is why a lot of Midrange decks only have one copy of Tracking these days (or none at all).
    5. Secret Hunter: Tracking is not useful for this deck, usually, if you have Subject 9, so it isn't usually included in the deck.

    A lot ofplayers that don't have a lot of experience with Hunter or with Hearthstone often use Tracking when they're going first and have only 1 mana available, thinking that this is a good way to use a turn that would otherwise be passed without playing anything. This is usually not the best way to use Tracking. Tracking is much more powerful, in most situations, later in the game. 

    I hope this helps a little and good luck in getting your golden hero! I'm working on getting Rogue and Warrior golden portraits at the moment.

    Dude, without wanting to be disrespectful to all the others, your two comments were the most complete of those I read, THANKS!
    The points 2 and 3 are the ones I got to understand easily by myself and use instinctively. The rest, especially the explanation in 1, I'll have to train myself and the mindset used to play hunter.
    I've reached golden hero before posting this, was in fact one of the reasons behind it, having gold hunter and not understanding the mechanics behind one basic card so widely used.
    That said, the hero I got after it was rogue, much of it thanks to the tempo rogue glory days, but I think there is a chance now with the agrro rogue advertised by dekkster in here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj-ZAe5PAQs&t=418s

    As for warrior, I would like to achieve it also, one of my favorite hero arts, but to achieve it nowadays, with the infamous 40min+ mirrors you are not certain to win..., it's going to be tough, good luck on that!

    1
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^ I've seen plenty of pro players hold Tracking on the mulligan and play it on turn one. Of course the difference between competitive play and ladder is that you typically know what your opponent is playing, often down to the exact decklist, so you can formulate a game-plan and anticipate what cards you are going to need several turns from now.

    Still, I don't think holding tracking is a rookie mistake per se, I think the real distinction is in whether the player makes the correct decision when offered a tough choice or just picks the Zul'Jin ten times out of ten.

    Thanks! the mulligan and turn 1 use of it will still be the hardest to correctly understand for me

    0
  • MasseBre007's Avatar
    Plains 215 79 Posts Joined 03/31/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    To paraphrase Kibler, most hunter decks are fast enough to where you won't ever see every card in the deck anyways, you're essentially looking at your top 3 cards and putting one into hand and the other two at the bottom of your deck. 

    This is good because instead of just relying on the top card of your deck to be your last Kill Command, it can be one of the top three cards and you still kill them dead.

    0
  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    That's a simple way to put it, thanks! The gist of it has been pointed out before, but never too much for one to understand it.
    Aside of that, clicking and not copying your signature twitch adress takes us to this -> https://outof.cards/accounts/twitch.tv/MasseBre007 ,which does not work :/

    0
  • Shro's Avatar
    Swamp 115 13 Posts Joined 05/31/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    Used to search for lethal or a card that can handle a situation quickly. I used to think Tracking was crap because of the discard, but then I realized how much I missed it when I didn't put it in my decks. 

    1
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From FuRenz
    Quote From RandomGuy
    Quote From AliRadicali

    The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.

     

    That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.

    This is the best answer.

    Tracking is low-key the best Hunter card in basic/classic, and most decks should always play 2x. The caveat being Zul'jin. A number of midrange hunter decks cut a copy of Tracking so Zul'jin won't deck them out in long games. Personally, I still play 2x Tracking in every deck with Zul'jin, and I just won't play both copies against Warrior. But Warrior (and sometimes Shaman) are the only times this tends to come up.

    As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?

    It really hurts having Zul'jin burning the rest of the deck... Then again, I understand that against warrior, if one is reaching the point of playing Zul'jin, the game is lost nonetheless :

    ???
    That is not how that matchup plays out.

    Zul'jin is why you win that game b/c of the extra Dire Frenzied minions.

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  • RavenSunHS's Avatar
    Refreshment Vendor 880 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    Btw, notice that the average usage of Tracking is the same of Zephrys the Great: in both cases you play the card to fish for a solution to turn the tables in your favor, and both cards require a sacrifice in order to benefit from them.

    Ofc the two cards are different in many other aspects but the purpose and kind of usage is very similar.

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  • Hydrafrog's Avatar
    Gul'dan 1840 3268 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From FuRenz
    Quote From Hydrafrog

    So... first off, I REALLY do not like playing Hunter.  To me it's the worst class by far.  With that in mind, I am trying to get my Golden Hunter class and I have learned to like Tracking because it allows you to root through the top 3 cards of your deck and grab the 1 that you need at that moment.  I only do it when I am looking to get the situational kill card.  For example, my opponent is down to 6 life, I have 7 mana... I'm digging for Leeroy Jenkins or Kill Command

    True, this is the way I've been trying to use it, but I really hate when, for example, I have nothing to play except tracking and I get those two cards out of it, having to dispose one of them.

    That's part of the game.  Is there a benefit to using one over the other?  Do you have Zul'jin left in your deck?  If so grab the Kill Command.  Do you have something to kill at least one of the 1/1's the Leeroy Jenkins spawns?  If no, grab the other card. 

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  • Xynot's Avatar
    135 25 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    Tracking is a very misunderstood and often misplayed card.  The proper use depends on your deck's win condition and your opponent's win condition.  Consider this example.  In the image, Tracking is used when facing mage.  It offers Ursatron, Mecharoo, and Galvanizer.   Since this is very likely Conjurer's Calling mage, the only way I can win is to draw into the Missile Launcher + Venomizer combo and hope he overextends his board or lacks immediate removal.  I take Ursatron because I already have Venomizer and want to try for Missile Launcher (using Ursatron's deathrattle) to set up my win condition.  More importantly, the other two cards are something I absolutely do not want to draw in the next couple turns.   It will be tough enough to survive until 8 already and pulling a Mecharoo would basically be game over.  Now if Ursatron wasn't there and it was, say, Bomb Toss, I would take Galvanizer because it could discount the combo pieces and get it out earlier.  The Bomb Toss will be completely useless against this mage build since it can drop a board of huge minions.  This way, I'm not 'losing' two cards, I'm drawing something I want and getting rid of cards I don't.  Tracking takes quite a while to learn when to use and what to go for in each matchup because it is deceptively versatile.

    All that you see is but a judgment against yourself.

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  • Avalon's Avatar
    Salty Dog 1550 2105 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From RandomGuy
    Quote From iWatchUSleep
    Quote From RandomGuy

    As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?

    What would you call it then? It's too slow for aggro and too fast for control and it doesn't have an OTK or massive combo.

    I think I would consider it  closer to control at this point.
    It's basically all removal, card draw, life gain, and value generation. (A lot of the removal just happens to be on a 1/1 body. )
    I don't think it's that fast, outside of an early Hyena stealing games.

    I agree: I either outheal aggro or OTK with Tundra Rhino Control deck, which is not how a proper Midrange deck would act

    Spice Lord and self-proclaimed Meme Master.

    • You can follow me on Twitter - I am always active and you can tag me to highlight your (or someone else's) 12 wins Duels run or really anything Hearthstone-related!
    • Hearthstone Battletag: beppe946#2807 (EU)
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  • Avalon's Avatar
    Salty Dog 1550 2105 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From FuRenz

    I understand that against warrior, if one is reaching the point of playing Zul'jin, the game is lost nonetheless :

    Wait, what? You're completely off the track mate: if you can't SMOrc Warriors down then you just have to switch to Control mode Zul'jin is what allows you to do so. Dire Frenzy into shuffling 12 overstated beasts into your deck is something even Boom struggles to deal with.

    The gameplay is really similar to the Deathstalker Rexxar Midrange Hunter with Dire Mole and Crackling Razormaw, but instead of generating huge Zombeasts you slowly build a favorable Yogg.

    Spice Lord and self-proclaimed Meme Master.

    • You can follow me on Twitter - I am always active and you can tag me to highlight your (or someone else's) 12 wins Duels run or really anything Hearthstone-related!
    • Hearthstone Battletag: beppe946#2807 (EU)
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  • FuRenz's Avatar
    Vampire 340 142 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    My bad, I never played the dire frenzy list!

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  • sicknantos's Avatar
    Rexxar 470 231 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    Tracking is a big risk/reward card that demands you know what you're looking for and what you're giving up once your options appear. It has won and lost me games, and not one of them was because it was a bad card.

    Since hunter with draw is extremely powerful, this is a good solution. Find the one card you need at the cost of two others you may need as well.

    Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.

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  • CableKnight's Avatar
    Rexxar 405 187 Posts Joined 03/14/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago

    I hate playing it in Highlander Hunter, having to choose between powerful cards like [Hearthstone Card (Ziliax) Not Found] or [Hearthstone Card (Zephrys) Not Found] comes up way too often. Plus it's terrible with Zul'jin, which is enough for me to cut it and slot in a Hunter's Pack.

    Gosh dang it, cards bad.

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  • tony's Avatar
    Banned 175 130 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
    Quote From FuRenz
    Quote From tony

    I agree with almost everything in favor of tracking that has been said in this thread except for that "Lethal 100% of the time" comment which I think was an attempt at sarcasm. I laughed a little, anyway, because if you've ever faced a Hunter using tracking late game and you're down on health you've probably held your breath a little!

    In my attempt to be helpful, I'll share how I use it in my Hunter decks and the reason why I might not include it. Not including it has nothing to with discarding cards. As a lot of people have mentioned, you're not really discarding them because you haven't received them in your hand yet. The concept behind using it wisely is this: You don't need all the cards in your deck to win the match. You need the right cards. Tracking helps you get the right card when you need it.

    Here is a list of how, when, and why I play tracking. I hope it helps the OP out in the quest for the Golden Rexxar (keep in mind I don't play in Wild format):

    1. Mulligan: I hardly ever keep Tracking unless I think I'll need it early on in the game. If I suspect I might need it early on in the game it's because I'm going first so I don't have an extra card with a coin and the situation makes me think I might want to keep a card that costs 4+ so I keep the 4-mana card and Tracking so I can fish for something to play on turn 3 or 5 if necessary. An example: I think my Mage opponent is going to have a Mountain Giant. A spell dealing 4 or more damage to a minion is a keeper because I probably don't need to put anything on the board on turns 1 or 2. For most situations, it's better to throw the Tracking back into the deck and draw something else because Tracking is a good late game card and not so good early in the game.
    2. Against Bomb Warrior or any other opponent that shuffles cards into my deck: After my opponent has shuffled a lot of garbage into my deck I look for a chance to play Tracking. This allows me to eliminate the bombs or whatever other damaging cards that were shuffled in and I can draw a useful card.
    3. Bomb or Mech Hunter: Tracking is very handy for fishing for Leeroy, Venomizer, or any other necessary card that can be used to wipe the board or finish off the opponent.
    4. Midrange Hunter: A good late game card to use when you're in need of the card you know is in there but hasn't surfaced. The later into the game you play your Tracking, the better your chances will be of finding what you're looking for and disregarding what you don't need because your deck is lower on cards. It isn't really for card draw anymore because of Master's Call, which is far better for that need to draw cards. This is why a lot of Midrange decks only have one copy of Tracking these days (or none at all).
    5. Secret Hunter: Tracking is not useful for this deck, usually, if you have Subject 9, so it isn't usually included in the deck.

    A lot ofplayers that don't have a lot of experience with Hunter or with Hearthstone often use Tracking when they're going first and have only 1 mana available, thinking that this is a good way to use a turn that would otherwise be passed without playing anything. This is usually not the best way to use Tracking. Tracking is much more powerful, in most situations, later in the game. 

    I hope this helps a little and good luck in getting your golden hero! I'm working on getting Rogue and Warrior golden portraits at the moment.

    Dude, without wanting to be disrespectful to all the others, your two comments were the most complete of those I read, THANKS!
    The points 2 and 3 are the ones I got to understand easily by myself and use instinctively. The rest, especially the explanation in 1, I'll have to train myself and the mindset used to play hunter.
    I've reached golden hero before posting this, was in fact one of the reasons behind it, having gold hunter and not understanding the mechanics behind one basic card so widely used.
    That said, the hero I got after it was rogue, much of it thanks to the tempo rogue glory days, but I think there is a chance now with the agrro rogue advertised by dekkster in here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj-ZAe5PAQs&t=418s

    As for warrior, I would like to achieve it also, one of my favorite hero arts, but to achieve it nowadays, with the infamous 40min+ mirrors you are not certain to win..., it's going to be tough, good luck on that!

    I'm so happy this was useful to you! I'm still working on golden Rogue. I need 164 more wins. I've been frustrated with the golden hero thing and gave up on it last season, but this season I'm focused on Rogue and leaving Warrior behind, mainly because I'm not having much fun with the warrior decks available to me.  So, I'm in agreement with you about that. I'm hoping that maybe in the future warrior will be different.

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