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You should not be surprised that people play ramp into x <- any unstopable force. 

This deck concept is a popular and successful archetype.

It has always been a thing in many other cardgames like Magic the Gathering (where it also exists right now in the form of ugin ramp).

Ramp is a very easy to play deck and is a capable of scooring high winrates against everything that is not aggro.

I was argueing against the introduction of new ramp cards in freljord because it was obvious for any experienced tcg- player how that would end especially when enormous payoff cards like Aurelion Sol exist

If you want to balance this concept you have to nerf ramp, letting aurelion find a home in SI with thresh who can be played around.

For now you have to play eighter ramp, aggro, a very fast and proably unreliable combo deck or a Challenger deck to destroy their manastones before they do harm. 

You have options against ramp into X decks but they are hated in mtg for a reason...

Nice ;)

I've been playing the game for just 3 months. I missed the launch of Bilgewater. So, the question is: is it normal for the meta to be this completely saturated by a single deck right after an expansion? I'm seeing Trundle/Sol like 3 games out of 5, and some other Sol deck most of the rest of the time.

Fortunately, I'm very comfortable with aggro decks, and I think I can manage a positive winrate against the deck, but still - there is an absolutely massive percentage of the player base on one single deck right now, and I find that fairly un-fun overall.

Edit - I will add that I've never seen the meta this completely saturated by a single deck, even after balance changes.

Edit #2 - it may have been a bit of a flash in the pan. A day later, I'm seeing it a lot less.

Quote From KingMicahhh

Quote From dapperdog

I've been trying my way up the ladder with out of meta decks and I still don't find anything wrong with the cards you listed for nerfs.

Voracious Reader is hardly a problem. Its been a while since I saw someone play this for a draw more than 1, a testament to how difficult it is to get value out of this card, especially in the early game.

Secret Passage is probably the most deserving in your list, but even then it doesn't really seem like a problem card. The real problem at the moment is how rogue abuses the many stealth minions they have, and the lack of a good healing card in standard right now. That's why most hunter decks just bulldozes aggro rogue with Explosive Trap. I like how secret passage allows rogue to play stuff that until now never saw the light of day, and if nerfing it means its all back to galakrond rogue, then I'm okay with secret passage staying unnerfed until the next expansion.

And finally Libram of Wisdom. Despite what you read in hsreplay or other stats, paladin is neither oppressive or hard to counter. If anything, its the most fair of all the classes, and any nerf to its core cards will instantly relegate paladin to unplayable for yet another expansion. On the discussion of whether libram of wisdom is broken? The real question would be would you keep this in your mulligan if you don't get to play Aldor Attendant on 1? The answer is no, and that is why it remains fair at 2 mana.

Most people use secret passage to find lethal thats why people don't like it the ability to easily find lethal. Basically zephrys in aggro rogue

On Secret Passage finding lethal. Yes, that's true. But that does not make aggro rogue unbearable or uncounterable. Its mostly the stealth minions that tend to be oppressive, but aside from pain warlock, I don't see this deck terrorizing anything.

On the Libram of Wisdom late game value. I've played around with libram paladin way before this expansion, and a great deal during this expansion. In only a small number of games that I am able to get Lady Liadrin out without dying and even fewer of these games was libram of wisdom ever coming close to being the most valuable card. In many cases if paladin wins at all its usually because of tempo swings from Lightforged Zealot or they simply could not deal with Goody Two-Shields on 3. The late game value you are talking about almost never happens. There's just too many ways to either beat paladin way before they get there, or to completely remove those librams via silences or sap.

The only time libram of wisdom come close to being broken is ironically in pure pally mirrors. In fact, paladin is so fair that a good player can easily beat paladin even in sub optimal matchups which is why none of the grandmasters would even think of bringing paladin (I know in week 1 a couple did, targetting druid and losing nearly every other matchup)

Quote From dapperdog

I've been trying my way up the ladder with out of meta decks and I still don't find anything wrong with the cards you listed for nerfs.

Voracious Reader is hardly a problem. Its been a while since I saw someone play this for a draw more than 1, a testament to how difficult it is to get value out of this card, especially in the early game.

Secret Passage is probably the most deserving in your list, but even then it doesn't really seem like a problem card. The real problem at the moment is how rogue abuses the many stealth minions they have, and the lack of a good healing card in standard right now. That's why most hunter decks just bulldozes aggro rogue with Explosive Trap. I like how secret passage allows rogue to play stuff that until now never saw the light of day, and if nerfing it means its all back to galakrond rogue, then I'm okay with secret passage staying unnerfed until the next expansion.

And finally Libram of Wisdom. Despite what you read in hsreplay or other stats, paladin is neither oppressive or hard to counter. If anything, its the most fair of all the classes, and any nerf to its core cards will instantly relegate paladin to unplayable for yet another expansion. On the discussion of whether libram of wisdom is broken? The real question would be would you keep this in your mulligan if you don't get to play Aldor Attendant on 1? The answer is no, and that is why it remains fair at 2 mana.

Most people use secret passage to find lethal thats why people don't like it the ability to easily find lethal. Basically zephrys in aggro rogue

Quote From Firenza

Context - We're three weeks into the Scholomance Acadamey Expansion. Kael'thas Sunstrider, who was broken before Day 1, has been fixed, but no other nerfs for Standard have been introduced (Mindrender Illucia was mostly for Wild).

HSReplay has the Tier 1 decks as Libram Paladin (58.1%), Face Hunter (57.4%), Stealth Rogue (57.2%), and Aggro Demon Hunter (55.9%).

My suggested nerfs:

Libram of Wisdom - Change the cost from 2-mana to 3-mana. This wouldn't affect the end-game power of the card or of Lady Liadrin, but would make for a much fairer early-game and mid-game. At first I speculated on changing stats or discounts of Aldor Attendant or Aldor Truthseeker, but their stats and effects are generally balanced for the other Librams. You want wisdom? You need to study harder and longer first.

Voracious Reader - Change the cost from 2-mana to 3-mana. There's nothing to over-think here. Make the card slower. Make it harder for a player to empty their hand on the same turn they play this. Make it come down later when the opponent can more easily deal with it. We all knew this card was too good as printed, and it's overdue for a nerf.

Secret Passage - Change "Replace your hand with 5 cards from your deck" to "3 cards." The Soularium was an excellent legendary spell. This draws more, is more consistent, and has no down-side. It's barely RNG to use this card to search for a game-winning Eviscerate or Sinister Strike. Making this change won't alter a single deck-list in current Rogue decks, but would hopefully shave a few tenths of a percent off their win-rate.

The problem with Libram of wisdom is late game its just too much value to deal with a free 7/7 worth a buffs every turn is impossibleto deal with.

I am torn on the whole celestial package Riot has added to the game. To me it seems a bit overtuned but it might get worse if the meta gets more aggressive. However, I think that Freljord and Targon has enough tools (board clears, heals, buffs) to adjust to an aggressive meta. 

My issue with the Invoke mechanic is that I get a "Hearthstone vibe" from it. Mirrors often comes down to who gets the most relevant cards and who levels up Aurelion Sol first, and if you get the "fill your hand with celestials"-card it is pretty much gg as you easily can play 60 worth of mana in a turn. 

I am not saying it is completely random: there is skill to it. How to play around the Spell shield, setting up the board, baiting for a super nova etc. but I just don't like that the mirrors are mostly about who draws Aurolion Sol first, and if he is removed: do you have a second copy? 

It can be fun as hell to play with because there are a lot of over-the-top plays you can make. 

Or just simply limit it to celestials. 

The problem with this card for me many times is that either me or the opponent have weak invoke cards that by being buffed by this suddenly makes the other unable to go aggresive anymore. I don't want to jump to conclusions too soon though since I played mostly expeditions and cards that discover stuff usually have a great time vs unrefined decks like the ones you get in expedition.

This card just affecting celestials would be my only change to celestials, or simply removing the mana refill like you said. 

I think that Celestials overall are pretty balanced cards. Them being all slow basically means that you play the same way around all of them by just open attacking. I do however agree that the grant +2|+2 to allies everywhere card should bet nerfed because it’s swingy and not very fun. I think it should just effect allies on the board and in your hand, so that it doesn’t just win the game if played early. It could also be changed to grant +2|+1 so that it doesn’t make your board invincible. 

All that being said, would it make sense for Celestial cards to always be revealed in hand? It would help make it easier for the opponent to play around them and it would nerf the keyword a bit.

I'd say to wait until at least Grandmaster has passed at least 1 week.
Or maybe next season reset. It's the best timing for nerfs.

Went 16-0 with this list last night - super aggressive and explosive list : 10/10

Crazy deck. Kudos. Played it about ten times, and the times I lost were when Ancestral Knowledge was buried and the opponent was playing Mill Druid. Nice.

Quote From meisterz39

• Are the actual Celestial cards too powerful/is the cost of getting a Celestial card too low? Some specific cards like Solari Priestess, which pick from a very limited pool of Celestials, are probably a little overtuned. But most of the cards seem decently priced for the power level of the cards, in no small part due to the fact that most Celestial spells are slow, so your opponent has time to react to just about every Celestial card before it snowballs to a win.

Amazing post as always Meisterz. Fully agree with you, just want to add my thoughts about this part. 

I present one way to analyze if Solari Priestess is fair or not:

-> Solari Priestess mana (3) + Selected card mana (x) + 1/2 body <-

Example: Selected Spell -> Falling Comet
3 mana + 6 mana = 9 mana
Now ask yourself: Is it a 9 mana obliteration that summons a 1/2 body at slow speed worth 9 mana?
Looks fair or even a bit overpriced to me, doesn't seem overtuned at all.

I've been trying my way up the ladder with out of meta decks and I still don't find anything wrong with the cards you listed for nerfs.

Voracious Reader is hardly a problem. Its been a while since I saw someone play this for a draw more than 1, a testament to how difficult it is to get value out of this card, especially in the early game.

Secret Passage is probably the most deserving in your list, but even then it doesn't really seem like a problem card. The real problem at the moment is how rogue abuses the many stealth minions they have, and the lack of a good healing card in standard right now. That's why most hunter decks just bulldozes aggro rogue with Explosive Trap. I like how secret passage allows rogue to play stuff that until now never saw the light of day, and if nerfing it means its all back to galakrond rogue, then I'm okay with secret passage staying unnerfed until the next expansion.

And finally Libram of Wisdom. Despite what you read in hsreplay or other stats, paladin is neither oppressive or hard to counter. If anything, its the most fair of all the classes, and any nerf to its core cards will instantly relegate paladin to unplayable for yet another expansion. On the discussion of whether libram of wisdom is broken? The real question would be would you keep this in your mulligan if you don't get to play Aldor Attendant on 1? The answer is no, and that is why it remains fair at 2 mana.

Yes, Firebrand.

“Targeted enchantment removal in black.” 

Finally! I needed this so much!

Lots of cool decks to try.

The usual rule of thumb is to only dust if you really need the dust. There's no way to tell whether a card is truly dust worthy since all it takes is one card to make it broken. Darkglare is a good example of that. Prior to Scholomance no one was playing it and out of nowhere suddenly its a meta card.

Firebrand

Actually, if you just include Naturalize instead of Bloodsail Corsair, you win against Counterfeit Coin and Flik Skyshiv EVERY TIME :)

In the mulligan keep 1x Patches the Pirate and every copy of Naturalize. Mulligan every Embiggen and excess copies of Patches the Pirate

1. In the early game, just Hero Power face.

2. When you have 10-cards in hand - play 1x Embiggen + Hero Power. Repeat for at least few turns, while you collect more Naturalize.

3. In the Late-Game, when you have 5-7 copies of Naturalize and can't play Embiggen anymore... this is your turn. Play 1-mana Patches the Pirate which you kept in mulligan. Play Naturalize on every single copy of Patches the Pirate that you have on the board. Suddenly you are so far ahead in fatigue race, that Rogue has 0 chance to win... (Remember, you also accumulate Armor in the early turns...).

If Rogue decides to play Flik Skyshiv before you do your MILL turn... well, just play Naturalize on it and continue your plan. This way Rogue only speeds up his inevitable loss...

I wrote guide on this, you can check for more if you want. And no, the deck isn't invincible anyways.

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/19148-embiggen-mill-druid-rogue-counter

I definitely agree on the point that he has no idea how to play against decks he hasn't accounted for.

That is the inherant problem with deck trackers, probability based plays, and opposing deck knowledge.

It is only sucessful within the microcosm that is the high level metagame.

As someone who only pilots his own brews in every cardgame he plays, I can attest to the power of "jank"

I would be careful turning to mobalytics as a more reliable source however, it tends to favor lists that are easy to play.

Rogue :) Secret Passage + Counterfeit Coin + Flik Skyshiv

Is it... Majordomo Executus?