I also wanted to mention a technique that has nothing to do with deck building and will vastly improve your chances into a control or combo matchup known as the reverse aggro pass.
Ionia needs to reserve mana for fast speed answers into your aggro swings for cards like concussive palm, stunning your attacker and developing a 3/2.
However these cards are played while the attack is occurring 100% of the time. You can devalue these plays as the aggro deck by developing, looking like you're committing to a swing and simple not attacking.
Ask yourself how much is the attack worth 4 dmg? Well is that better or worse than the opponent burning 4 mana? In most cases I would argue its worse unless you're closing things out with burn next turn.
So once again develop aggressively, wait for the attack phase pass they will give you, than dont swing. It will really screw them over when they went down on tempo and didn't develop their free 3/2's.
---bonus---
The mistake is what I see happen next, the control deck trying to restore tempo now that they have the attack token will open pass back to the aggro player. Do not accept this pass, return to developing there's very little of proactive substance they can do with the token no sweepers, no removal, they can play ez and swing but you can keep up a 2 mana answer while still building board.
Follow these steps and you will beat Kenin consistently it goes: Develop -> pass -> develop -> counter -> open swing once board is full.
Yeah so you're getting stunned, you're getting comboed out, and burst down and you can't do anything. I know it's frustrating, the meta decks just aren't cutting it right now, and you dont want to play the mirror.
Well boys I've got you covered here are 3 deck concepts that all do well into Kenin, you could call them control lists but they play like midrange.
1. Just challenge everything
Drag that little ****** with laurent protégé or bird as soon as he comes down, and then drag everything else over and over until you get the concede. Keep your singles and sharpsights for reactive plays.
Pings all day long, and lots of attune and draw to keep things flexible. Probably the only "infinite" cycling deck I enjoy because there is some skill involved.
Vulnerable is almost as good as challenger, and we have things like vile feast and other sweepers to keep the party rolling. Has the addeded benefit of playing well into other midrange decks.
So yeah if you don't like these lists just build your own, remembering that if you can't out control the combo deck you have to out aggro them consistently so that limits your deck building option to low curve threats like pirate aggro etc. and most people already know those lists so here are the more interesting options.
Swain decks are always strong in combo situations because youre essentially putting them on a clock to go off and they don't run a ton of non self bounces sometimes none. So yeah thats basically all the regions so you can counter Kenen with pretty much anything you want to greater or lesser effect as long as its built right.
Killing Kenin is easy. Drag the Kenin with a challenger wait for the necessary bounce counter with board interaction, aka single, vile or mystic.
So the key is that you are responding when Kenin comes down on turn 4 every kenin deck functions this way and knowing when a play is guaranteed to happen is very powerful.
Why is it guaranteed? Because you developed threats and youre pressuring life total.
Now you're running meta decks, they don't have challengers, or vulnerable, or board interaction besides pokey stick and thats it. So yeah you're gonna get pooped on by a combo deck that just stuns and plays solitaire with itself when really the best best way to stop that from happening is throwing the table.
But yeah waiting till turn 5 for a sweeper is pretty much guaranteed to loose if that's what we are talking about lol, you have to answer things on curve with kenin and then if that fails try the sweeper thing after taxing their answers.
------- Bonus-------
You want a real mind **** the best Kenin card is the Lee Sin challenger granter because it's let's Kenin beat other Kenin decks. That's all the proof I need that board interaction is the best counter to everyone's favorite combo deck.
-----Extra Bonus----
The best pantheon deck has gone up 2% on mobalytics just by hard teching challenger dragon. Honestly I probably wouldn't stop there there's an argument for laurent protégé as well.
Hmmm I don't think you'll see much Yassao period, I already see people flocking back to bandlewood infinite cycle decks because they are easy to play and have no loose condition.
Now aggro and combo decks punish those lists its why they sit at like a 50% on mobalytics but pity I don't play those decks at all.
Really happy the new decks are performing well, kennen Ezreal easily counterable but also there are enough tech choices availible that you can counter attempts to counter it.
Ie proactive plays cloud stance instead of recall which gets really bad when the opponent knows its coming. Like it isn't fiz, you just drag kenen or block kenen and wait for the recall/buff and respond accordingly. Basically screws the entire deck...so yeah cloud stance is op run it and run with both twin disciplines and the Lee Sin card.
The deck becomes a lot more powerful when your opponent forced to make the first move instead of vice versa and you won't always have the luxury to play solitaire.
But right now yes absolutely every meta deck plays solitaire because card interaction is hard so it's doing great.
Pantheon is fantastic for a all in on one card type strategy, he's basically a mini arsenal and who doesn't love that card?
Ahiri already has a solid home, and personally I think robo boy is amazing people just run him wrong he's a Jinx activator, it's what he does well, he isn't good when you try to use him as a worse pantheon or a Sion pal, because Sion doesn't want you invoking mechs.
And yes all the old decks are still good too so I would say the meta is in a fantastic place, the only really big loosers are the old solitaire decks that cycled infinitely because Ezreal Kenen just does it better and that's okay.
So a Targons Peak list made it into the top 20. Yes really, now there are a lot of potential conclusions to be drawn from this.
Some are inevitable gonna be right and some will be wrong.
1. Targons Peak is an amazing tournament/ladder deck (wrong)
2. The deck creator teched his deck so well into the aggro meta that targons Peak performed well (correct)
So basically if you look at his list he includes every form of healing, area of effect, and frost bite availible to Freijord and Targon.
The idea being of course that if he can out survive every aggro player in the tournament long enough to get a 0 mana Asol after emptying his hand of control answers he will automatically win.
Turns out this was correct, aggro decks don't run removal, or card interaction or anything really.
They just go face, play things on board, and burn ocassionally.
So you slow roll Peak instead if high rolling it, you wait till you have like 4 cards to play it
Then you win.
So kinda goes into what I was saying all along, aggro isn't good, people just haven't been teching their decks appropriately into the meta.
Now do you need to run every single form of healing, frostbite, and aoe to win on ladder absolutely not, but it goes to show answers are availible to smart deck builders.
We see pretty major tier list adjustments this month.
Basically every single control or combo deck has dropped down to the lowest tier.
Thralls, darkness, Lee Sin, Jayce etc.
While aggro still sits at the top, and plunder is there for some variety. The truth is that it should probably be replaced by pirate aggro if we are going strictly by winrates.
So is aggro a problem? It hasn't changed or gotten any better as of late, the lists are the same, the cards are the same, there could be an argument that control decks are being squeezed out but I don't see that as the case.
The way control is being built lately is that it typically just cycles and delays the game instead of teching in actual answers in the form of spells. Darkness being a perfect example where you can't play the box, or a withering wail or a vile fest, you have to play 2/2 into 3 mana darkness that right there might be too slow, and veigar on 4 is a death sentence.
I think this more than anything is why aggro and tempo decks are winning, because control decks are't really control decks with answers, they are cycling or combo decks with high synergy.
Just play good control cards and I bet the winrates for this archetype improve.
I know Majin Bae a pretty all right player is running a full 3 control/combo deck line up to the next tournament so it will be interesting to see how he does.
I would say better than the tier list would suggest that's for sure.
Nothing exciting or interesting going on here, not seeing any control decks period because they are harder to pilot.
Not seeing deep or ledros control or any the other "tournament" deck options availible, no dragons either yeeesh, very little pure midrange.
Honestly, if everyone sticks with decks from this exceptionally safe list this tournament is gonna be about as boring as worlds was.
Gotta say one thing for the days of mtg professional play, but those guys had definite decks and styles of decks they preffered and were pretty easily distinguishable from one another because of it.
How else would of the hall of fame system worked if they were all essentially the same person?
For me I'm gonna scan the stream to look for the single bright spark that decided to pilot something interesting, hell I would take lisandra Thralls as a breath of fresh air at this point.
Actually I don't really care how good of a player I am, but youre right if you're a troll you shouldn't interact with me because you will likely loose any satisfaction you might have gained with your trolling behavior on account of being poorly informed, and just unlikeable and wrong.
-----
Like if you have cogent points about deck brewing, meta balance, and card design I'm happy to talk to you about that. If your whole purpose is character assassination and trying to make other people feel bad about themselves your time is absolutely wasted on me let me assure you.
So big problem here is that you're not confident enough that giving thaliyah and zoggs overwhelm is enough to win that you also want to try and build a strictly worse arsenal deck than the one on mobalytics with Zillian.
So easy solution sure up the deck so you're can be 100% confident that when your 5 mana follower lands and gives your Champs overwhelm that you can win on next swing.
Might I suggest more.buffs like the strike card that will make them even bigger? Or tricks if they aren't too low value? It just seems kinda lame to put in so much work into a Ziggs Thaliyah deck only to realize that the Aresenal is carrying your deck concept.
But you can look at this and say it should be a Temo Ezreal deck and you'd be right...except I don't want to play that deck that people are very much aware of, I want to play the original concept...so at the end of the day I'll let you old boys do the fine tuning, and I'm gonna be here building awesome fun murfolk decks that win games :)
Yeah I guess I don't really need to take a week to fine tune my lists when I win so much with my brews as is. Like if I can build a good deck in 30 minuites and it take you a week to build one thats a little better think how many more brews I can make in that time alone?
I'll give an example, here's fresh lobster evaluating deep a 50% winrate deck on mobalytics.
What do I see when I look at the list?
3 main decked lure of the depths, literally a 3 mana do less than that shurima cycle card that at least turbo levels your Champs and offers trades next turn.
So yeah I would take those out and I would build an actual list of shadow control spells to deal with aggro first, and then do the deep thing second, maybe I drop the mill for Elise who knows. Do all that and I bet you could get deep to 52% - 53% easily.
So you really need to use your head when you're evaluating these archetypes are they built for ladder? Could you build them better yourself? Then say objectively okay this is a bad deck or not.
Seems to be a lot of confusion around this concept so I thought I'd help out.
First of all you need to go to the archetype stats this will aggregate all the winrates of a certain deck category. This is helpful do get a proper view of how certain champ combinations are actually perform outside of tech choices like oh I added two rite of negation and shifted my winrate by 2% its like okay but you could do that in any deck so who cares...always look at the aggregate for the archetype.
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/archetypes
The second thing is aggro performs on average 5% percent better in LOR due to punishing greedy decks which they will ocassionaly que into and auto win against. Free wins are massive when we are calculating overall stats.
So for example Zed Poppy might have an aggregate winrate of 59% making it the best deck in the game, but in a tournament setting where every deck is built properly to deal with aggro you can expect it to win closer to 54% and on par with control/midrange
The second thing is a control or midrange deck that wins 54% of the time is fully optimized, so Lux Jayce, Darkness, Dragon, Discard, Lurk they all share this magic number.
The third thing is if a deck is listed on mobalytics and is winning 50% of the time its essentially a tournament deck that is built poorly for ladder, I would make heavy adjustments before taking it online for a spin
Thats Lor meta stats in a nutshell, 59% for aggro is good, 54% for everything else, and 50% means adjust before taking online.
Wait you guys are criticizing my builds that take 30 minuites to be effective and you guys need a whole week. Okay I'm declaring this troll thread officially over lolz.
--------
Also aggregate winrates typically only go as high as 54% for control and true midrange decks. That's just the game right now so of you asked me would I rather play this over a 50% winrate Heimer deck or Lee Sin deck from mobalytics the answer is yes absolutely it plays well into aggro because that's most of what you face right now in S tier.
To give an example Zed Poppy supposedly one of the best decks in the game crumbles to even a moderate amount of true midrange pushback. Like sure if all you do is pass and cycle they are gonna eat you with quick attack plus Poppy plus rally.
Because you cut all the true removal out of your deck, maybe you're dragons and all you do is single combat onto dragon girl...that's way too slow
Let's say you're darkness and youre playing a veigar into a poppy that's game loosing, how about Jayce well in my experience that matchup is great if you arent running a greedy Heimer version but you probably are.
But if you start answering them play for play because you arent slow rolling its auto concede by round 3 for them everytime. So yeah aggro decks aren't good, meta decks are just so insular right now that they essentially fall apart when they can't get rolling with a very specific game plan. Aka run removal, run healing, run an actual curve etc. And you'll be fine.
So all the top decks are aggro or burn, and some would say that Gangplank Sejuani is midrange but they are still damaging you every turn so it sure feel agressive. So thats S tier.
A tier includes Jace Lux, Dragons, Thralls, Shadow as potential counters that play a little slower. Now is this actually representative of the games current balance or a response to all the greedy Heimer bs people were playing and instead got effectively 💩 on.
I would say likely more the second thing, like its not hard to tech in tavern keeper, and all different forms of healing that exist in the game to greatly improve your performance.
Even something like deny to crowd out burn plays are high effective. Personally I love when I see aggro decks because you literally know every play they are making before they do so any loss is a failure of deck building creativity vs a failure of play. So overall good meta, F you Heimer and learn to build decks that beat aggro?
Not gonna stay on this thread much longer but I literally just played the mirror against Zigs Thaliyah and they lost handedly.
The reason is simple and I've played those decks too, that giving ziggs or Thaliyah overwhelm so you can actually win is super akward and requires multiple cards to be commited.
Meanwhile I play Nasus into strike and the games over and I literally commited 1 champ slot to make that play happen.
So again random forum people talking about a bad deck like Zigs Thaliyah 0 Nifty1. At the end of the day the money goes where your oversized mouths are.
I also wanted to mention a technique that has nothing to do with deck building and will vastly improve your chances into a control or combo matchup known as the reverse aggro pass.
Ionia needs to reserve mana for fast speed answers into your aggro swings for cards like concussive palm, stunning your attacker and developing a 3/2.
However these cards are played while the attack is occurring 100% of the time. You can devalue these plays as the aggro deck by developing, looking like you're committing to a swing and simple not attacking.
Ask yourself how much is the attack worth 4 dmg? Well is that better or worse than the opponent burning 4 mana? In most cases I would argue its worse unless you're closing things out with burn next turn.
So once again develop aggressively, wait for the attack phase pass they will give you, than dont swing. It will really screw them over when they went down on tempo and didn't develop their free 3/2's.
---bonus---
The mistake is what I see happen next, the control deck trying to restore tempo now that they have the attack token will open pass back to the aggro player. Do not accept this pass, return to developing there's very little of proactive substance they can do with the token no sweepers, no removal, they can play ez and swing but you can keep up a 2 mana answer while still building board.
Follow these steps and you will beat Kenin consistently it goes: Develop -> pass -> develop -> counter -> open swing once board is full.
Yeah bro for sure. Vengeance is probably the cut, doesn't have a lot of great targets these days.
Yeah so you're getting stunned, you're getting comboed out, and burst down and you can't do anything. I know it's frustrating, the meta decks just aren't cutting it right now, and you dont want to play the mirror.
Well boys I've got you covered here are 3 deck concepts that all do well into Kenin, you could call them control lists but they play like midrange.
1. Just challenge everything
Drag that little ****** with laurent protégé or bird as soon as he comes down, and then drag everything else over and over until you get the concede. Keep your singles and sharpsights for reactive plays.
2. Nami TF control
Pings all day long, and lots of attune and draw to keep things flexible. Probably the only "infinite" cycling deck I enjoy because there is some skill involved.
3. Slay Control
Vulnerable is almost as good as challenger, and we have things like vile feast and other sweepers to keep the party rolling. Has the addeded benefit of playing well into other midrange decks.
So yeah if you don't like these lists just build your own, remembering that if you can't out control the combo deck you have to out aggro them consistently so that limits your deck building option to low curve threats like pirate aggro etc. and most people already know those lists so here are the more interesting options.
---Bonus---
Swain decks are always strong in combo situations because youre essentially putting them on a clock to go off and they don't run a ton of non self bounces sometimes none. So yeah thats basically all the regions so you can counter Kenen with pretty much anything you want to greater or lesser effect as long as its built right.
Killing Kenin is easy. Drag the Kenin with a challenger wait for the necessary bounce counter with board interaction, aka single, vile or mystic.
So the key is that you are responding when Kenin comes down on turn 4 every kenin deck functions this way and knowing when a play is guaranteed to happen is very powerful.
Why is it guaranteed? Because you developed threats and youre pressuring life total.
Now you're running meta decks, they don't have challengers, or vulnerable, or board interaction besides pokey stick and thats it. So yeah you're gonna get pooped on by a combo deck that just stuns and plays solitaire with itself when really the best best way to stop that from happening is throwing the table.
But yeah waiting till turn 5 for a sweeper is pretty much guaranteed to loose if that's what we are talking about lol, you have to answer things on curve with kenin and then if that fails try the sweeper thing after taxing their answers.
------- Bonus-------
You want a real mind **** the best Kenin card is the Lee Sin challenger granter because it's let's Kenin beat other Kenin decks. That's all the proof I need that board interaction is the best counter to everyone's favorite combo deck.
-----Extra Bonus----
The best pantheon deck has gone up 2% on mobalytics just by hard teching challenger dragon. Honestly I probably wouldn't stop there there's an argument for laurent protégé as well.
Hmmm I don't think you'll see much Yassao period, I already see people flocking back to bandlewood infinite cycle decks because they are easy to play and have no loose condition.
Now aggro and combo decks punish those lists its why they sit at like a 50% on mobalytics but pity I don't play those decks at all.
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/archetypes
Really happy the new decks are performing well, kennen Ezreal easily counterable but also there are enough tech choices availible that you can counter attempts to counter it.
Ie proactive plays cloud stance instead of recall which gets really bad when the opponent knows its coming. Like it isn't fiz, you just drag kenen or block kenen and wait for the recall/buff and respond accordingly. Basically screws the entire deck...so yeah cloud stance is op run it and run with both twin disciplines and the Lee Sin card.
The deck becomes a lot more powerful when your opponent forced to make the first move instead of vice versa and you won't always have the luxury to play solitaire.
But right now yes absolutely every meta deck plays solitaire because card interaction is hard so it's doing great.
Pantheon is fantastic for a all in on one card type strategy, he's basically a mini arsenal and who doesn't love that card?
Ahiri already has a solid home, and personally I think robo boy is amazing people just run him wrong he's a Jinx activator, it's what he does well, he isn't good when you try to use him as a worse pantheon or a Sion pal, because Sion doesn't want you invoking mechs.
And yes all the old decks are still good too so I would say the meta is in a fantastic place, the only really big loosers are the old solitaire decks that cycled infinitely because Ezreal Kenen just does it better and that's okay.
So a Targons Peak list made it into the top 20. Yes really, now there are a lot of potential conclusions to be drawn from this.
Some are inevitable gonna be right and some will be wrong.
1. Targons Peak is an amazing tournament/ladder deck (wrong)
2. The deck creator teched his deck so well into the aggro meta that targons Peak performed well (correct)
So basically if you look at his list he includes every form of healing, area of effect, and frost bite availible to Freijord and Targon.
The idea being of course that if he can out survive every aggro player in the tournament long enough to get a 0 mana Asol after emptying his hand of control answers he will automatically win.
Turns out this was correct, aggro decks don't run removal, or card interaction or anything really.
They just go face, play things on board, and burn ocassionally.
So you slow roll Peak instead if high rolling it, you wait till you have like 4 cards to play it
Then you win.
So kinda goes into what I was saying all along, aggro isn't good, people just haven't been teching their decks appropriately into the meta.
Now do you need to run every single form of healing, frostbite, and aoe to win on ladder absolutely not, but it goes to show answers are availible to smart deck builders.
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/meta-tier-list
We see pretty major tier list adjustments this month.
Basically every single control or combo deck has dropped down to the lowest tier.
Thralls, darkness, Lee Sin, Jayce etc.
While aggro still sits at the top, and plunder is there for some variety. The truth is that it should probably be replaced by pirate aggro if we are going strictly by winrates.
So is aggro a problem? It hasn't changed or gotten any better as of late, the lists are the same, the cards are the same, there could be an argument that control decks are being squeezed out but I don't see that as the case.
The way control is being built lately is that it typically just cycles and delays the game instead of teching in actual answers in the form of spells. Darkness being a perfect example where you can't play the box, or a withering wail or a vile fest, you have to play 2/2 into 3 mana darkness that right there might be too slow, and veigar on 4 is a death sentence.
I think this more than anything is why aggro and tempo decks are winning, because control decks are't really control decks with answers, they are cycling or combo decks with high synergy.
Just play good control cards and I bet the winrates for this archetype improve.
I know Majin Bae a pretty all right player is running a full 3 control/combo deck line up to the next tournament so it will be interesting to see how he does.
I would say better than the tier list would suggest that's for sure.
https://mobalytics.gg/blog/lor-7-seasonal-tournament-decks-between-worlds/
Nothing exciting or interesting going on here, not seeing any control decks period because they are harder to pilot.
Not seeing deep or ledros control or any the other "tournament" deck options availible, no dragons either yeeesh, very little pure midrange.
Honestly, if everyone sticks with decks from this exceptionally safe list this tournament is gonna be about as boring as worlds was.
Gotta say one thing for the days of mtg professional play, but those guys had definite decks and styles of decks they preffered and were pretty easily distinguishable from one another because of it.
How else would of the hall of fame system worked if they were all essentially the same person?
For me I'm gonna scan the stream to look for the single bright spark that decided to pilot something interesting, hell I would take lisandra Thralls as a breath of fresh air at this point.
Actually I don't really care how good of a player I am, but youre right if you're a troll you shouldn't interact with me because you will likely loose any satisfaction you might have gained with your trolling behavior on account of being poorly informed, and just unlikeable and wrong.
-----
Like if you have cogent points about deck brewing, meta balance, and card design I'm happy to talk to you about that. If your whole purpose is character assassination and trying to make other people feel bad about themselves your time is absolutely wasted on me let me assure you.
Also I got bored so I deconstructed the Ziggs Thaliyah build you're working on, or that I've seen people working on.
So big problem here is that you're not confident enough that giving thaliyah and zoggs overwhelm is enough to win that you also want to try and build a strictly worse arsenal deck than the one on mobalytics with Zillian.
So easy solution sure up the deck so you're can be 100% confident that when your 5 mana follower lands and gives your Champs overwhelm that you can win on next swing.
Might I suggest more.buffs like the strike card that will make them even bigger? Or tricks if they aren't too low value? It just seems kinda lame to put in so much work into a Ziggs Thaliyah deck only to realize that the Aresenal is carrying your deck concept.
Also there is what we mtg players call the merfolk problem.
Oh let's optimize that merfolk deck, let's just add some counters, and some tricks, and some removal..."how many merfolk are left?" About 3.
To use a Lor case study I wanted to make Catlyn and justice rider work.
But you can look at this and say it should be a Temo Ezreal deck and you'd be right...except I don't want to play that deck that people are very much aware of, I want to play the original concept...so at the end of the day I'll let you old boys do the fine tuning, and I'm gonna be here building awesome fun murfolk decks that win games :)
Yeah I guess I don't really need to take a week to fine tune my lists when I win so much with my brews as is. Like if I can build a good deck in 30 minuites and it take you a week to build one thats a little better think how many more brews I can make in that time alone?
And there we go fully optimized deep deck ready to be properly evaluated for the current meta.
Just played it into that ledros control deck the "best Lor player in the game" came up with and it was an easy win.
I baited ruination sooo hard that player must have felt salty being read like an open book
https://youtu.be/VisdFl547T0
I'll give an example, here's fresh lobster evaluating deep a 50% winrate deck on mobalytics.
What do I see when I look at the list?
3 main decked lure of the depths, literally a 3 mana do less than that shurima cycle card that at least turbo levels your Champs and offers trades next turn.
So yeah I would take those out and I would build an actual list of shadow control spells to deal with aggro first, and then do the deep thing second, maybe I drop the mill for Elise who knows. Do all that and I bet you could get deep to 52% - 53% easily.
So you really need to use your head when you're evaluating these archetypes are they built for ladder? Could you build them better yourself? Then say objectively okay this is a bad deck or not.
Seems to be a lot of confusion around this concept so I thought I'd help out.
First of all you need to go to the archetype stats this will aggregate all the winrates of a certain deck category. This is helpful do get a proper view of how certain champ combinations are actually perform outside of tech choices like oh I added two rite of negation and shifted my winrate by 2% its like okay but you could do that in any deck so who cares...always look at the aggregate for the archetype.
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/archetypes
The second thing is aggro performs on average 5% percent better in LOR due to punishing greedy decks which they will ocassionaly que into and auto win against. Free wins are massive when we are calculating overall stats.
So for example Zed Poppy might have an aggregate winrate of 59% making it the best deck in the game, but in a tournament setting where every deck is built properly to deal with aggro you can expect it to win closer to 54% and on par with control/midrange
The second thing is a control or midrange deck that wins 54% of the time is fully optimized, so Lux Jayce, Darkness, Dragon, Discard, Lurk they all share this magic number.
The third thing is if a deck is listed on mobalytics and is winning 50% of the time its essentially a tournament deck that is built poorly for ladder, I would make heavy adjustments before taking it online for a spin
Thats Lor meta stats in a nutshell, 59% for aggro is good, 54% for everything else, and 50% means adjust before taking online.
Wait you guys are criticizing my builds that take 30 minuites to be effective and you guys need a whole week. Okay I'm declaring this troll thread officially over lolz.
--------
Also aggregate winrates typically only go as high as 54% for control and true midrange decks. That's just the game right now so of you asked me would I rather play this over a 50% winrate Heimer deck or Lee Sin deck from mobalytics the answer is yes absolutely it plays well into aggro because that's most of what you face right now in S tier.
To give an example Zed Poppy supposedly one of the best decks in the game crumbles to even a moderate amount of true midrange pushback. Like sure if all you do is pass and cycle they are gonna eat you with quick attack plus Poppy plus rally.
Because you cut all the true removal out of your deck, maybe you're dragons and all you do is single combat onto dragon girl...that's way too slow
Let's say you're darkness and youre playing a veigar into a poppy that's game loosing, how about Jayce well in my experience that matchup is great if you arent running a greedy Heimer version but you probably are.
But if you start answering them play for play because you arent slow rolling its auto concede by round 3 for them everytime. So yeah aggro decks aren't good, meta decks are just so insular right now that they essentially fall apart when they can't get rolling with a very specific game plan. Aka run removal, run healing, run an actual curve etc. And you'll be fine.
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/meta-tier-list
So all the top decks are aggro or burn, and some would say that Gangplank Sejuani is midrange but they are still damaging you every turn so it sure feel agressive. So thats S tier.
A tier includes Jace Lux, Dragons, Thralls, Shadow as potential counters that play a little slower. Now is this actually representative of the games current balance or a response to all the greedy Heimer bs people were playing and instead got effectively 💩 on.
I would say likely more the second thing, like its not hard to tech in tavern keeper, and all different forms of healing that exist in the game to greatly improve your performance.
Even something like deny to crowd out burn plays are high effective. Personally I love when I see aggro decks because you literally know every play they are making before they do so any loss is a failure of deck building creativity vs a failure of play. So overall good meta, F you Heimer and learn to build decks that beat aggro?
Not gonna stay on this thread much longer but I literally just played the mirror against Zigs Thaliyah and they lost handedly.
The reason is simple and I've played those decks too, that giving ziggs or Thaliyah overwhelm so you can actually win is super akward and requires multiple cards to be commited.
Meanwhile I play Nasus into strike and the games over and I literally commited 1 champ slot to make that play happen.
So again random forum people talking about a bad deck like Zigs Thaliyah 0 Nifty1. At the end of the day the money goes where your oversized mouths are.