This is a new champ, he will have entire decks built around him, he warrants his own thread.

I honestly have no idea were this guy goes, Swim keeps thinking that you run these self damage cards with healing, I don't necessarily agree.

It's not enough to just play something slightly overstated, and heal it back to full.

You actually have to have a way to win the game.

Alternatively, you could try to go for Vlad, every one of these creatures you play that damage themselves means Vlad is going down leveled on 6

But I might be way off with that, maybe healing your followers is good enough on it's own, but I doubt it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtrCdqWw-ec

Possible, the number 1 consideration for Riot should always be the playability of of their games. If everyone hates Ionia/Targon as an archetype that's a good enough reason to kill it.

People like pirates and bilgewater so it's champs haven't been touched since launch.

but then you can't really be surprised when you end up in aggro or control heavy situations when that's what you are asking for.

I was kinda over the whole play ramp or play bilgewater thing so I liked a change of pace.

But sure we can go back, hopefully the new cards will be enough to change things up on their own.

Like I agree that I like those champs I just don't think they are goooood per say.

I would see Lee landing at 5 mana ultimately but then they would buff his stats so it's hard to say if that would help.

Statistically speaking, Ionia was the worst region in terms of win rate, that's just math.

They nerfed Karma hard and she never fully recovered.

They nerfed Ezreal he's not going to be the go to combo champ anymore

So right now we have Lee, or we just go back to the control/aggro meta before the buff, and that was a little boring.

Typically the strongest decks have no counter and represent a 59 percent winrate.

Which we have seen with every bilgewater noxious deck.

Let's see what cards get released in 2 weeks before we just gut Ionia all over again

So people have found out that invoking was the key to fixing Lee.

While Sol might have been overkill

Instead they are just running behold the infinite, so you can jam a big dude if your primary game plan doesn't work out.

This has upped the winrate of the list to 53 percent so not bad.

Once again right idea wrong card inclusion

This combines the best elements of Lee Zed and solo Lee and is my own take on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khcqEEHzaBw

I think this is great personally, I'd love to see Ruinterra tackle all these mtg staple mechanics.

Just by having them take a place on the board already makes them far more balanced

Hopefully we don't get any mana cheating like fires of inventions because that killed standard for everyone.

That's a pretty fast turn around actually.

If you're free to play you probably just grabbed the last champs for your collection on Thursday.

So now you have 2 weeks to grab your epics.

It feels op to play against. It's a combo deck that creates a lot of no win situations.

It's like aww geeze a 4/5 zed with overwhelm that will never be removed I auto win for sure

Or it's aww geeze my zed just got mystic shotted into a thermo which was enough to get rid of spell shield now I can't win.

Or it's aww geeze I literally didn't draw any combo pieces after a muligan and now I just loose, but I won't count that.

It's called statistical variance vs. perception and it's very hard to account for without looking at the bigger picture

Also stuff like frostbite decks are a great counter, even if lee has barrier if you frosbite him into a rimefang wolf he auto dies

Everybody knows that Lee Sin is a top tier card along with the new bastion but for whatever reason the decks all have a below 50 percent winrate currently, indicating that A these lists are super hard to pilot or B the lists are not properly optimized.

Either way there are solutions that can fix both of these issues.

The first is tempo Lee/Zed similar to the old stand alone lists, you essentially present a big impossible to remove body that swings for lethal.

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/code/CIBQCAICBEBAEAQBAYDQGCITDMRSSM2WLQBAEAICBQ3QEAYJGBKQEAIBAISQCAYJMA

It runs tools like goat and mentor, and it's a list that was popularized by Swim

Only issue is that it also has a 47 percent winrate due to either being unoptimized or too big brained for the average player

But nobody has explored Lee's control potential, what if instead of being all in on tempo in Targon, a region that's really bad at tempo

We went the opposite direction, we went control. Well what are good control cards in Targon/Ionia

You have Karma or you have Asol.

I think control Lee hasn't really been explored and I'd like everyone to post their ideas down bellow.

Here's one to get started

You can say the same thing about will of ionia, the only difference here is that dragons rage is a win condition in the non-mirror.

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/archetypes

If we go to the stats page of mobalytics we notice a total overhaul to how the website is calculating win-rates instead emphasizing individual deck-lists with smaller sample sizes aka games played.

Unfortunately, this approach is uninformative I could for example look at ash thresh and see that they have a 57 percent win rate over 100 games and logically think they are top tier. But this would be incorrect.

Typically we would want to see 500 - 1000 games played over multiple variants of a deck list to get a realistic statistical picture of a decks true potential.

Ultimately, mobalytics needs to return to grouping similar decklists together into one statistical category if it wants to be of any use at all.

So Lee Sin has a 50 percent winrate on mobalytics currently, so it's really bad.

The buff to bastion will absolutely change that however.

Expect it to go up to 55 percent with the next patch.

Swim has Swain TF, and Pirate burn aggro as still top tier after the patch

because logically changing one stat on one card isn't enough to kill these decks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QKix7RFE48

but sure they will be a tiny bit worse

Bilgewater Noxious regardless if it's pirate burn aggro or Swain TF remains top tier.

Will they still pull in the insane winrate they have now possible not but they will still be great.

Or people will just run fearsome burn aggro instead with shadow/noxious 

It wins just as often topping out around 59 - 60 percent

So sadly this patch doesn't really change anything

So are you receiving medication for your denial or is it just untreatable?

Look man just like he says the game isn't as fresh as it could be.

It's because core set, and rising tides is just better than call of the mountain

I don't like this fact but it does explain why Swim doesn't play anymore

mogwai stopped his balance podcasts

because if anyone says anything insightful about LOR it's just Nah Ah

baby rage, denial, refusal, hatred, delusions

A fun little quote from him at time code 22.25

Only 10 new cards were released from this set that see play

The only new list is Asol Trundle ramp and even then Bilgewater Noxious is just better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY8D2MC6FHY

He also praises Fiora Shen which isn't being played by anyone really but has the potential to be great

This list was grabbed straight off swim's website if you want to try it, it's the same one Bruised is streaming

Although he run's dragons on 5, which is a whatever change

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/btlupe1la4s85h9j4vq0

What's your stance Parrot, wait that would require an original thought instead of just being a troll.

So I've unlocked all of the new champion capsules in all of the region rewards.

Providing me a full set of Taric and Nocturn.

That only leaves a full playset of Sol to grab from weekly's and with gems.

Unfortunately, a lot of these champs are underrepresented in the meta right now.

You are either hardcore aggro or super control, and these match's are decided very quickly.

If I wanted to grind rank I'd just jam pirate aggro with it's insane 59 percent win rate overall.

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/code/CICAIAIDAIHSKKACAIBQGBAGAIDAQFRAEYWTUAIDAYDAAAIBAEBTG

It has a 70 - 90 percent win rate against all of the control regions in the game so Targon, P and Z, Ionia, Noxious, Freijord

Shadow would be your best bet but it still looses 59 percent of the time.

Hurray, no midrange and no combo decks to speak of, so fun.

Still think Bilgewater isn't op guys...

You guys are so funny. If you spent the same amount of time thinking about card balance as you do tearing one another down you'd have fixed the game by now.