Even when you can actually play him in a strong Tempo swing, he's just a big body that can be dealt with by any deck in Wild. And it also means your hand is likely to be nearly empty at that point, leaving you vulnerable for the rest of the game.
Since he's the only big-body/mana of the deck, the strategy represents no real threat, neither against Aggro/Burn, nor against Control.
All in all, this is a Tempo deck, not Miracle, so Zilliax or Loatheb are much better solutions, especially for the current Wild meta.
The revelation of the full system of the Old Gods and the Cosmology was truly a masterpiece by the Warcraft story designers.
It turned a mass of an indefinitely-developing fancy lore into a full-blown universe.
It's good to have that explained here.
On a sidenote, I am really curious about the incoming developments of N'Zoth, the Corruptor in WoW. I expect the ultimate masterpiece from that storyline.
Even Shaman performs well, slightly better than before I think, with Totemic Surge and the likes. I haven't tried the weapon, but I tried Vessina, and she's good enough (not sure I would reccomment the craft tho, you can probably replace her with the axe, which I haven't tried tho). This was from r9 to r5.
It is definitely not so strong as before against Secret Mage (but maybe some adjustments may help), and it may suffer against properly tuned Renodecks (although i have beaten some, despite their Reno Jackson, they were probably too greedy builds). Not sure of how it performs at higher ranks, as I am trying homebrews from r5-r4.
Woah Hex Lord Malacrass! I can't deny I'm intrigued to try Renomage myself now. If only I had all those legendaries... I guess I'll try a version with Open the Waygate first.
OOC is better in every aspect, socially, and technically (FAR superior), and it's bound to improve with time. As opposed to Hpwn, which I expect to stay in uncertain waters for the time being.
Lazy website dwellers will probably stay at Hpwn, and that's just good for us here.
Dedicated contributors will eventually join here, it's just a matter of time.
So yeah, the community may be split, but we actually have the selection of the good portion. :p
I think you'll see things very differently once you're around rank 2 3-4 stars. That's where Reno Mages REALLY take off. It's hard to tell whether they're stronger than Secret Mage or not in a vacuum, but I can assure you, ranks 2-1 are about outhealing secret mages with Reno and Jaina and then competing in who has a filthier, greedier Reno Mage. The greedier the deck, the better it seems to do against other Reno Mages, which end up being about 50 % of the meta in that rank section. It is downright vulgar how good Reno Mage is right now, and I don't think the Galaxy nerf is going to change that much in the near future.
Well, that's interesting (even moreso because I actually found Reno the Relicologist in packs).
Probably the by-product of a shapeless meta, but at some point I would expect the greedy rampage to implode against Combo/OTK decks (tbh I expected Secret Mage to be a counter against greediness?).
I am really curious (and a bit scared) of where this may lead our Wild meta.
If others have more details to share, we are glad to hear them.
climbed to rank5 with my usual Even Shaman, tuned with the new totemic cards: the decks feels slightly stronger now, but not as dominant as I thought it could be.
I faced many variations of Quest Shaman, and they look solid Midrange decks. They can easily adjust to the meta, so while maybe not top tier, I think the archetype is bound to stay, due to its versatility.
I faced Secret Mages, and i felt hopeless. I probably misplayed more than I can admit, and they probably had a powerful start, but really, it felt hopeless (and I was playing Even Shaman). To me, the concept feels just as versatile as Quest Shaman (it's easy to adjust Secrets against Aggro now), but even more powerful, because Secret Mage can be relentless from turn-1. Arcane Flakmage and Flame Ward should have never been printed. I am not yet crying for nerfs, but I am seriously concerned by this deck now.
From rank5, I started playing with my own Bazaar Burglary Rogue, which is surprisingly good in Wild thanks to Ethereal Peddler. I don't have many games with it, but I already faced and defeated meta decks, so it looks much better than the Standard meta reports would suggest. Actually, my only success against Secret Mage comes from Tempo Thief Rogue. Maybe also because the meta is different in Wild? Either way, I conceive it as a fancy variation over Odd Rogue, more than one over Spectral Cutlass Rogue (which I conceive more as full-blown Midrange deck).
I haven't met many Quest Taunt Warriors, just one or two, and they were not as powerful as I feared they could be.
I have met some Reno decks, and while strong, they didn't feel much stronger than before, from my Tempo/Midrange perspective. Certainly they are not just Control decks now, but Midrange too thanks to the new Highlanders and Zephrys the Great. All in all, I think they could become more popular, but I am not sure they can actually climb the deck tiers (while staying very powerful in the right hands).
Still some Big Priests, but just as usual. I haven't climbed higher than rank4, so that could be the reason.
We do not have a Wild meta report yet, but we know SoU has carried many important cards for Wild meta.
So I'd like to have a discussion, according to your experience, about how you feel the meta has shaped or is still shaping, whether you think there are some critical decks now that might warp the meta or if everything will settle to Wild balance, eventually.
I bet we have all faced Secret Mages, and their unprecedented ability to deal both burn and board damage, while Even Shamans had their totemic synergy improved.
Many players started experimenting again with Highlander decks, while many others decided to complete the new Quests in Wild. Including at high ranks.
But what is the real powerlevel of all these new experimentations in the meta? Are Quests and Highlanders going to survive the meta? Is Secret Mage bound to be a meta tyrant?
The idea that a gentle Tortollan Pilgrim might actually be the new avatar of Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, made the whole thing much more Horror than i tought it could be.
I have also met similar decks, some going full-blown battlecry, others using strong AoE and Fountain too.
In my limited experience against it, the Quest Jade concept is definitely strong, and i feel the lists with some extra Control package could be the most consistent ones, because they include both solid survival and lategame value.
Mages are turning into a real bane in Wild against virtually any deck. I'm not sure what to say about that matchup.
With some more playtesting, Edwin VanCleef is just too inconsistent, despite the Counterfeit Coins.
Even when you can actually play him in a strong Tempo swing, he's just a big body that can be dealt with by any deck in Wild. And it also means your hand is likely to be nearly empty at that point, leaving you vulnerable for the rest of the game.
Since he's the only big-body/mana of the deck, the strategy represents no real threat, neither against Aggro/Burn, nor against Control.
All in all, this is a Tempo deck, not Miracle, so Zilliax or Loatheb are much better solutions, especially for the current Wild meta.
In the end, i had to remove Edwin VanCleef: he's too weak both against Control and against Aggro.
Replaced with Zilliax, for stabilizing against Aggro and possibly Secret Mage too.
If Control is a problem instead, replace with Loatheb.
Zilliax is balanced, so no nerf should occur.
The only solution to ubiquity, if that's a real problem, would be an early HoF.
But ubiquity doesn't seem to bother too many players, and with just 7months left of Standard life, it's probably not worth it to bother anyway.
Naga Sea Witch used to have serpentine hair in WC3, eg Lady Vashj.
That is, i am fairly sure Gorgon was just a pun, yet they can still explain it as a title, or attribute, particularly fitting for Naga females.
Gorgon is not a different species or race, and Zola is a Naga.
The revelation of the full system of the Old Gods and the Cosmology was truly a masterpiece by the Warcraft story designers.
It turned a mass of an indefinitely-developing fancy lore into a full-blown universe.
It's good to have that explained here.
On a sidenote, I am really curious about the incoming developments of N'Zoth, the Corruptor in WoW. I expect the ultimate masterpiece from that storyline.
Not really. That is actually one of the most powerful cards of the deck (and of the whole Druid class tbh).
You can probably try with a Mark of Y'Shaarj and/or Mark of Nature and/or a second Hidden Oasis, but it's not going to be the same.
They're tiny, well hidden... and full of horror!
The Horror! The Horror!
She is Odd-costed (and i don't have her anyway😅).
Haha that Even Druid! I still have to check if SoU brought anything good for it.
Sure. But also lorewise, Gnomes would never call for the help of a Goblin for recruiting. That was my point.
Even Shaman performs well, slightly better than before I think, with Totemic Surge and the likes. I haven't tried the weapon, but I tried Vessina, and she's good enough (not sure I would reccomment the craft tho, you can probably replace her with the axe, which I haven't tried tho). This was from r9 to r5.
It is definitely not so strong as before against Secret Mage (but maybe some adjustments may help), and it may suffer against properly tuned Renodecks (although i have beaten some, despite their Reno Jackson, they were probably too greedy builds). Not sure of how it performs at higher ranks, as I am trying homebrews from r5-r4.
Woah Hex Lord Malacrass! I can't deny I'm intrigued to try Renomage myself now. If only I had all those legendaries... I guess I'll try a version with Open the Waygate first.
OOC is better in every aspect, socially, and technically (FAR superior), and it's bound to improve with time. As opposed to Hpwn, which I expect to stay in uncertain waters for the time being.
Lazy website dwellers will probably stay at Hpwn, and that's just good for us here.
Dedicated contributors will eventually join here, it's just a matter of time.
So yeah, the community may be split, but we actually have the selection of the good portion. :p
Well, that's interesting (even moreso because I actually found Reno the Relicologist in packs).
Probably the by-product of a shapeless meta, but at some point I would expect the greedy rampage to implode against Combo/OTK decks (tbh I expected Secret Mage to be a counter against greediness?).
I am really curious (and a bit scared) of where this may lead our Wild meta.
If others have more details to share, we are glad to hear them.
Lovely flavour.
Just, let me point out the worst enemy of a Gnome is probably a Goblin, much more than a Trogg. Dr. Boom could never be Uncle Boom for Gnomes. :p
+1 nonetheless
Thank you Lightspoon and Marcus.
Here are my points so far:
We do not have a Wild meta report yet, but we know SoU has carried many important cards for Wild meta.
So I'd like to have a discussion, according to your experience, about how you feel the meta has shaped or is still shaping, whether you think there are some critical decks now that might warp the meta or if everything will settle to Wild balance, eventually.
I bet we have all faced Secret Mages, and their unprecedented ability to deal both burn and board damage, while Even Shamans had their totemic synergy improved.
Many players started experimenting again with Highlander decks, while many others decided to complete the new Quests in Wild. Including at high ranks.
But what is the real powerlevel of all these new experimentations in the meta? Are Quests and Highlanders going to survive the meta? Is Secret Mage bound to be a meta tyrant?
What is your Wild Ranked experience after SoU?
The idea that a gentle Tortollan Pilgrim might actually be the new avatar of Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, made the whole thing much more Horror than i tought it could be.
I have also met similar decks, some going full-blown battlecry, others using strong AoE and Fountain too.
In my limited experience against it, the Quest Jade concept is definitely strong, and i feel the lists with some extra Control package could be the most consistent ones, because they include both solid survival and lategame value.
Mages are turning into a real bane in Wild against virtually any deck. I'm not sure what to say about that matchup.
Maybe Combo Priest could survive with Embalming Ritual and/or Holy Ripple instead of Extra Arms (mainly for Pyro purposes).
Surely not the same, but it could be enough.