I mean, I get that they're not gonna immediately shoot it out of the sky, but why are we back to "the soonest it'D be removed at the set rotation" when we just had Mind Blast Hall of Famed mid-year?
That being said, the way they framed it, it sounds like there might be some sort of a Priest rework (regarding classic set). Funnily enough, Priest is actually the only class that has a clearly defined win condition built into their base set while every other class just has a variety of base mechanics that depend on new support. I guess that might be the problem after all
So....I occasionally check Hearthpwn every once in a while and I noticed something that's kind of bothering me.
While I really like the content you put on this site you seem to be missing out on reporting some rather crucial info.
For example, a few days back we had that micro patch that fixed the Plague Lord health bug....and while Hearthpwn had a post about that, we didn't get anything of the sort here. Same goes for the controversy that apparently has been happening on Reddit about unjust bans, that Blizzard reposnded too (and contained other valuable info)
Again, I'm not trying to complain, but I feel like these are the kind of news that should warrant a thread. Especially since you're usually pretty enthusiastic about posting content like Deck compilations or Lore posts.
The boss is broken, you can't defeat him if you azari the devourer too soon.... Lost a run with bobs deck due to that
I assume the boss used his final hero power to shuffle stuff into his deck? Weirdly for me, he never once used his final hero power. No idea what was up with that
he has some weird algorithm for that. apparently he only uses it when he has a smaller board than you and also only if he doesn't have something to put on the board instead.
nope, unfortunately. Secret passive doesn't work either
Tomb Raider is unfrotunately not useful until the final chapter when she upgrades. 6 secrets is just too much, however 3 are somewhat acceptable, given that upon completion you're probably going to start winning hard.
Thanks for this! I have not done this, but it occurred to me that I might use this strategy in order to grab the win with a different hero or package.
just figured out it's a bug because he just doesn't remember at all now. I only wasted 1 hour on this only to find out that Blizzard is still unable to perform basic bugtesting
now some of you might have already discovered this, but for those of you who haven't
DO NOT CONCCEDE ON THE FINAL BOSSES. THEY WILL NOT RETAIN THEIR HEALTH IF YOU DO
I had to learn this the hard way when i brought one to 1 HP on Heroic, planning to finish him off later with Finley...but when i conceded he just went back to 192.
if you want to soften up a boss to finish him with a different hero....well you better kill yourself
EDIT: nvm, it's actually just f**ing bugged. It doesn't matter whether you concede or get killed (or you the Hearthstone). my boss is just stuck at 192 HP permanently now for no reason. Small indie company indeed
EDIT 2: checked the forums, it's only affecting the second plague lord and it's apparently fucked on a deeper level as it will not only forget damage taken but also sometimes create random HP numbers. Only way to beat it currently seems to be oneshotting it. Hopefully they'll hotfix it.
DON'T TRY TO PLAY CHAPTER TWO. YOU'LL WASTE YOUR TIME
EDIT 3: As of today the issue was fixed with a patch. Everything should work fine now.
if you buy the game you're supporting laziness on the developer's side and basically signalling them that they can get away with it, which ultimately makes you part of the problem
Therefore and thusly I conclude: anyone who buys this half-assed scam is a drooling fanboy with no sense of self-control or integrity. If you get offended by this you're only proving my point.
Simply no - so everyone who ever wanted a game like this and hasn't the same oppinion you have is an idiot? There are lots of people who realy like what they did or just simply grateful that they get a new and so far cool looking pokemon game - sure not everything is perfect and they could have made it even better but still - so far (with some exceptions) it looks awesome!
I'm also sure you're one of the people that cried about the missing pokemons and some of the attack animations - this game is not just for Hardcore Competetive Pokemon Players - this is mostly for Casuals and Newcomers - and therefor looks awesome! Yes there will be a small part for the competetive & core players and they will survive with some missing pokemons - but Nintendo is "feeding" not just the Core Gamers - so i think they made (almost) everything right.
I do not care if you call me names or a Nintendo Fanboy but to say everyone who buys it is someone without integrity etc is just plain wrong - at least in my oppinion.
I personaly am happy that we finaly get a cool looking pokemon game i can play on my TV :)
cool. like a moth to the flame and just about as self aware.
if you buy the game you're supporting laziness on the developer's side and basically signalling them that they can get away with it, which ultimately makes you part of the problem
Therefore and thusly I conclude: anyone who buys this
I agree with you til this point: after it you're just taking it as an excuse to insult peopl
and watch people completely disregard the point because they can't handle being insulted on the internet
Yeah but one thing is criticism (which is fair and I totally support it), another is insulting.
If people cry about a product they nonetheless buy, then it's their fault too and you're right to address it, but you shouldn't provoke like that.
It's not that people can't handle being insulted on the internet: people can't handle being insulted on the internet without any good reason.
"Hey you? Why do you play HS if that makes you salty? You mindless slave, sad fuck trying to find a goal in your pathetic life". See?
So what? nothing you said is wrong. Sorry that I don't want to pretened to be civilized on the fucking internet. I'm not claiming to be the paragon of virtue, I'm just making a point and I'm gonna use whatever language I feel like. If that makes you uncomfortable then it's not my problem.
Civility doesn't matter because people are too retarded to get the point anyways, so I might as well insult them so at least I get something out of the whole thing.
if you buy the game you're supporting laziness on the developer's side and basically signalling them that they can get away with it, which ultimately makes you part of the problem
Therefore and thusly I conclude: anyone who buys this
I agree with you til this point: after it you're just taking it as an excuse to insult peopl
and watch people completely disregard the point because they can't handle being insulted on the internet
if you buy the game you're supporting laziness on the developer's side and basically signalling them that they can get away with it, which ultimately makes you part of the problem
Therefore and thusly I conclude: anyone who buys this half-assed scam is a drooling fanboy with no sense of self-control or integrity. If you get offended by this you're only proving my point.
at this point it's definitely Uldum. The class specific treasures are just great and there's so much more replayability when compared to Dalaran.
Rumble would probably be second.
I have no idea why people like Dungeon Run so much when it was literally the worst iteration of the concept, with frustrating bosses that you couldn't even build against because they were completely randomized, so it all comes down to cheesing out wins with overpowered treasures instead of coherent strategies
It's no more or less problematic than most swingy tempo turns in HS.
it is at turn 3
If you play it turn 3 that means that you already have 4 minions on board. If that's the case you should already be in a good spot. And stop acting like this is happening every time on turn 3. That's an insane high roll.
no, ffs, it means there ARE 4 minions on the board, of which at least 2 could quite easily be theirs. And ofc it'S an "insane" highroll. That's the point you dunce. It's a complete shutdown that can happen at any point if they just happened to open with it. it's literally the Healzoo opener on crack.
The point isn't about consistency, it's about how unfair of a combo it is and how it shouldn't even exist in the first place.
Quest Shaman itself is very capable of going wide in the early game and you're not gonna win against them by just trading off all your minions, because you should try to actually kill them before they steamroll you with the Quest.
I don't think it's that big of a problem. It's a big power spike but most decks have big if not bigger power strikes right now. Priests are having 12/12+ on early turns, Edwin is still a card, druids are rushing two 5/5s for 5 (not even a combo), aggro warrior can do some nutty stuff with the merc. It's pretty far off from the value and power of conjurer's calling. Mogu + mutate isn't even super strong in several matchups and 8 drops has plenty of rolls that aren't too insane to deal with.
I think it's pretty important for the deck to get some raw tempo and it makes games interesting. Sometimes you get blown out but that just happens in hearthstone. you would have to change a lot of cards before it made sense to nerf that.
we'Re talking about a 2-card combo that punishes decks that are just playing their gameplan and have no other option to beat you.
We're talking about a 7-mana Sea Giant that also deals 3 damage.
There are a ton of insanely strong 2-card combos. If your gameplan does not take the possibility of facing early big minions into account, you should probably change it because Combo Priest, Mech Hunter, and Mech Paladin all exist.
we're talking big minions that rush in on turn 3 and are unaffected by silence. I do, in fact, tech against said decks, with the handy dandy Spellbreaker, which usually is enough...except of course when all that tempo i built up by going aggressive in the first two turns (against a quest deck whose main weakness is supposed to be a slow start) only to get blown out by a turn 3 Ironbark Protector that just murdered my Flame imp.
Better tech in that sick Voodoo Doll. I remember when we actually had tech for that. It was called Big Game Hunter and it was in every deck at 3-mana....WE GOT RID OF THAT BECAUSE WE ASSUMED THAT YOU WOULDN'T NEED TARGETTED HARD REMOVAL ON TURN 3
Btw, the played mana cost being forgotten from hand to board is inconsistent with how stats are handled from hand to board: if the game was consistent with how Mutate or Conjurer's Calling are calculated, then handbuff should not exist as a mechanic (attack and hp would reset at board landing).
Stats are normaly resetted only if the direction is backwards, eg. graveyard to board, board to hand, hand to deck. They are kept otherwise.
Why doesn't this happen for mana as well?
because Hearthstone is a clusterfuck developed by silly people who will apply consistency if the feel like it.
nothing much by itself, but after the more engaged part of the community migrated here the amount of rage threads and overall lunacy has increased.
Basically you get a bunch of threads really aggressively ranting about a certain card without actually providing any arguments ("Zephrys is so OP because he gave my opponent lethal. No card should just give lethal"). Then a bunch of people who agree without adding anything ("you're right, fuck Zephrys"), a bunch of people who disagree and reference the Salt thread a lot ("OP is rank 50 confirmed, git gud") and then Hooghout chimes in and rambles for 3 paragraphs while using the word "mindless" at least once.
It would be funny if it wasn't so repetitive. Can't really get a discussion going if people keep spamming nonsense that adds nothing of value.
I'm starting to see a pattern on this thread. Some say it creates a huge tempo swing way too early, others say that the big minion can be countered with 2 cost cards. But that's the point - the combo is like a counter, and in this case, it's a counter to a fast, minion-swarming meta. It comes out earlier when fighting against aggro or tempo and most of the time it immediately takes control of the board. But if you're facing control, the combo happens later when it's easier for any deck to recover, let alone a control deck. Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate is going to be relevant as long as the meta stays minion centered. Does that mean it needs a nerf? Maybe, I can't say for sure. But I agree with others that keeping the cost permanent once it enters the battlefield (but letting it revert in case it's bounced or resurrected, like an enchantment) would overall be a good change to the game, not just because of this.
thing is...it doesn't just counter minion heavy decks. It literally goes down to 3-mana by the time 4 minions are on the field...when the deck itself also tends to swarm as well. this means that even slower decks that play only a few select early game minions can easily get blown out by this thing on turn 3 despite not even playing into it. The only real counter would be to not play any minions at all...which doesn't really seem intended
Cards/comboes that create big minions are not inherently a problem. King Phaoris, Astromancer, etc. are powerful, but fair. It's when you can hit that power spike on turn 3/4 that it becomes a big issue. And yes that goes for Cleef too, it's absurd he hasn't been HoF'ed or nerfed to four mana considering how many games, even at a high level, are decided by a turn two or three huge Cleef.
People talk about cleef and they say he is super good and he should be HoF or nerfed. But maybe I have seen like 10 edwins in my 2-3 years of playing hearthstone. I really don't see him much ever and he has never seemed like he has been good enough to need to get nerfed. Why do you think edwin should be HoFed? is he really that much of a problem?
No i think he's not - sure i had a game a few years back were i was up against a 12/12 Edwin on 3 or 4 , but that does not happen that often. Most of the time he's a 6/6 or max an 8/8 - but even that does not happen that often - so i do not see him as a problem.
Cards/comboes that create big minions are not inherently a problem. King Phaoris, Astromancer, etc. are powerful, but fair. It's when you can hit that power spike on turn 3/4 that it becomes a big issue. And yes that goes for Cleef too, it's absurd he hasn't been HoF'ed or nerfed to four mana considering how many games, even at a high level, are decided by a turn two or three huge Cleef.
People talk about cleef and they say he is super good and he should be HoF or nerfed. But maybe I have seen like 10 edwins in my 2-3 years of playing hearthstone. I really don't see him much ever and he has never seemed like he has been good enough to need to get nerfed. Why do you think edwin should be HoFed? is he really that much of a problem?
Oh come on. Just because Rogue is off-meta right now doesn't mean that the most powerful rogue card ever is suddenly fine. Off the top of my head I can't recall a rogue list in the previous season of GM that didn't include him, and before that I'm pretty sure every viable competitive rogue list that didn't include The Caverns Below ran him as well.
And no, he doesn't always come down as a 12/12, and he doesn't have to to be a problem. A turn 2 6/6 or a turn 3 8/8 is so far ahead of the curve that most decks have to take two turns dealing with the problem unless they have exactly the right answer in hand, which means taking massive damage while the rogue can freely develop. It's like how the better class of Priest players doesn't just play Inner Fire + Divine Spirit for a 32/32 lethal, oftentimes making a 6/6 cleric on turn two is the correct play.
So yes, Cleef has been a problem since the dawn of hearthstone.
at the very least one could argue that Cleef is more balanced by being a legendary that also requires a lot of ressources and can easily be countered via silence (of which there is a neutral counter available to every deck)
I think it's a bit of a drag that Warrior has been the only viable control class for ages now. It really makes the meta a lot more onesided when one of the three major archetypes of decks is represented by a single class.
for ages is a bit of an overstatement. Warrior only came back as a control class during Rumble when Odd Warrior finally became good enough (thanks to the Dragon package)
the only reason why Warrior even got to this point is because pretty much all other "control" classes got more proactive strategies (well that and Dr. Boom). Take Mage for example: the tools are all there but it's just more effective to be a bit more on the proactive side with Mountain Giants and whatnot.
In fact, Warrior just happens to be the only class who is still able to play the old school control game of "just remove everything your opponent have and win when they die from old age....which is mostly due to the complete overload of removal they have. Bommb Warrior was technically a step in the right direction (as are the new taunt cards) so I'm looking forward to the rotation when a lot of the overly efficient removal and Boom go away so Warrior can build their contorl decks more proactively
Warrior has late-game inevitability. Any control deck that wants to coexist alongside Warrior and have a chance to beat it (EG Quest druid ATM) needs a proactive win condition because in fatigue they lose to warriors. Hence Phaoris, Nomi, Floop, etc.: the hope is to run warrior out of mass removal and win on the spot, because eventually rushing mechs will overcome any amount of threats.
Warriors have a proactive win condition in bombs and they choose not to use it in the current meta because slow and steady wins the race more reliably ATM. Having inevitability is a feature, not a cost.
well yes, their "inevitability" (more like a huge amount of ressource generation of which most doubles as removal, inevitability would be more akin to Jade Golems or Mecha'thun) obviously contributes to their overall success, but it kinda demonstrates the problem that control decks have in general atm, which is that they rely too much on infinite ressources to be viable.
What I'm trying to say is: Warrior is doing to other control decks now what other control decks were doing to Warrior last year (before he got Boom). This just demonstrates that infinite ressources are bad for the game, especially when available to classes with strong control tools.
In other words: this might be the last year Warrior even gets to do this before they have to use bombs as their main win condition. It really seems like Blizzard is finally moving away from the ResidentSleeper playstyle
I mean, I get that they're not gonna immediately shoot it out of the sky, but why are we back to "the soonest it'D be removed at the set rotation" when we just had Mind Blast Hall of Famed mid-year?
That being said, the way they framed it, it sounds like there might be some sort of a Priest rework (regarding classic set). Funnily enough, Priest is actually the only class that has a clearly defined win condition built into their base set while every other class just has a variety of base mechanics that depend on new support. I guess that might be the problem after all
Simple really. You would only ever pick it in a deck with access to mostly big minions and cards that support that.
not to mention you can always pick up more low cost minions along the way
So....I occasionally check Hearthpwn every once in a while and I noticed something that's kind of bothering me.
While I really like the content you put on this site you seem to be missing out on reporting some rather crucial info.
For example, a few days back we had that micro patch that fixed the Plague Lord health bug....and while Hearthpwn had a post about that, we didn't get anything of the sort here. Same goes for the controversy that apparently has been happening on Reddit about unjust bans, that Blizzard reposnded too (and contained other valuable info)
Again, I'm not trying to complain, but I feel like these are the kind of news that should warrant a thread. Especially since you're usually pretty enthusiastic about posting content like Deck compilations or Lore posts.
he has some weird algorithm for that. apparently he only uses it when he has a smaller board than you and also only if he doesn't have something to put on the board instead.
nope, unfortunately. Secret passive doesn't work either
Tomb Raider is unfrotunately not useful until the final chapter when she upgrades. 6 secrets is just too much, however 3 are somewhat acceptable, given that upon completion you're probably going to start winning hard.
just figured out it's a bug because he just doesn't remember at all now. I only wasted 1 hour on this only to find out that Blizzard is still unable to perform basic bugtesting
now some of you might have already discovered this, but for those of you who haven't
DO NOT CONCCEDE ON THE FINAL BOSSES. THEY WILL NOT RETAIN THEIR HEALTH IF YOU DO
I had to learn this the hard way when i brought one to 1 HP on Heroic, planning to finish him off later with Finley...but when i conceded he just went back to 192.
if you want to soften up a boss to finish him with a different hero....well you better kill yourself
EDIT: nvm, it's actually just f**ing bugged. It doesn't matter whether you concede or get killed (or you the Hearthstone). my boss is just stuck at 192 HP permanently now for no reason. Small indie company indeed
EDIT 2: checked the forums, it's only affecting the second plague lord and it's apparently fucked on a deeper level as it will not only forget damage taken but also sometimes create random HP numbers. Only way to beat it currently seems to be oneshotting it. Hopefully they'll hotfix it.
DON'T TRY TO PLAY CHAPTER TWO. YOU'LL WASTE YOUR TIME
EDIT 3: As of today the issue was fixed with a patch. Everything should work fine now.
cool. like a moth to the flame and just about as self aware.
-at least in my opinion
So what? nothing you said is wrong. Sorry that I don't want to pretened to be civilized on the fucking internet. I'm not claiming to be the paragon of virtue, I'm just making a point and I'm gonna use whatever language I feel like. If that makes you uncomfortable then it's not my problem.
Civility doesn't matter because people are too retarded to get the point anyways, so I might as well insult them so at least I get something out of the whole thing.
and watch people completely disregard the point because they can't handle being insulted on the internet
here's my take:
if you buy the game you're supporting laziness on the developer's side and basically signalling them that they can get away with it, which ultimately makes you part of the problem
Therefore and thusly I conclude: anyone who buys this half-assed scam is a drooling fanboy with no sense of self-control or integrity. If you get offended by this you're only proving my point.
at this point it's definitely Uldum. The class specific treasures are just great and there's so much more replayability when compared to Dalaran.
Rumble would probably be second.
I have no idea why people like Dungeon Run so much when it was literally the worst iteration of the concept, with frustrating bosses that you couldn't even build against because they were completely randomized, so it all comes down to cheesing out wins with overpowered treasures instead of coherent strategies
no, ffs, it means there ARE 4 minions on the board, of which at least 2 could quite easily be theirs. And ofc it'S an "insane" highroll. That's the point you dunce. It's a complete shutdown that can happen at any point if they just happened to open with it. it's literally the Healzoo opener on crack.
The point isn't about consistency, it's about how unfair of a combo it is and how it shouldn't even exist in the first place.
Quest Shaman itself is very capable of going wide in the early game and you're not gonna win against them by just trading off all your minions, because you should try to actually kill them before they steamroll you with the Quest.
it is at turn 3
we're talking big minions that rush in on turn 3 and are unaffected by silence. I do, in fact, tech against said decks, with the handy dandy Spellbreaker, which usually is enough...except of course when all that tempo i built up by going aggressive in the first two turns (against a quest deck whose main weakness is supposed to be a slow start) only to get blown out by a turn 3 Ironbark Protector that just murdered my Flame imp.
Better tech in that sick Voodoo Doll. I remember when we actually had tech for that. It was called Big Game Hunter and it was in every deck at 3-mana....WE GOT RID OF THAT BECAUSE WE ASSUMED THAT YOU WOULDN'T NEED TARGETTED HARD REMOVAL ON TURN 3
because Hearthstone is a clusterfuck developed by silly people who will apply consistency if the feel like it.
nothing much by itself, but after the more engaged part of the community migrated here the amount of rage threads and overall lunacy has increased.
Basically you get a bunch of threads really aggressively ranting about a certain card without actually providing any arguments ("Zephrys is so OP because he gave my opponent lethal. No card should just give lethal"). Then a bunch of people who agree without adding anything ("you're right, fuck Zephrys"), a bunch of people who disagree and reference the Salt thread a lot ("OP is rank 50 confirmed, git gud") and then Hooghout chimes in and rambles for 3 paragraphs while using the word "mindless" at least once.
It would be funny if it wasn't so repetitive. Can't really get a discussion going if people keep spamming nonsense that adds nothing of value.
thing is...it doesn't just counter minion heavy decks. It literally goes down to 3-mana by the time 4 minions are on the field...when the deck itself also tends to swarm as well. this means that even slower decks that play only a few select early game minions can easily get blown out by this thing on turn 3 despite not even playing into it. The only real counter would be to not play any minions at all...which doesn't really seem intended
at the very least one could argue that Cleef is more balanced by being a legendary that also requires a lot of ressources and can easily be countered via silence (of which there is a neutral counter available to every deck)
well yes, their "inevitability" (more like a huge amount of ressource generation of which most doubles as removal, inevitability would be more akin to Jade Golems or Mecha'thun) obviously contributes to their overall success, but it kinda demonstrates the problem that control decks have in general atm, which is that they rely too much on infinite ressources to be viable.
What I'm trying to say is: Warrior is doing to other control decks now what other control decks were doing to Warrior last year (before he got Boom). This just demonstrates that infinite ressources are bad for the game, especially when available to classes with strong control tools.
In other words: this might be the last year Warrior even gets to do this before they have to use bombs as their main win condition. It really seems like Blizzard is finally moving away from the ResidentSleeper playstyle