currently on my third attempt. Got it down to 40 on the first run, then down to 12 on the second mainly because I misread what Primordial Bulwark does and thought it would Iceblock me the entire turn.
Definitely having fun though. So many new treasure and synergies you get to try out. Definitely feels ilke a step up from Dalaran
I think it's a bit of a drag that Warrior has been the only viable control class for ages now. It really makes the meta a lot more onesided when one of the three major archetypes of decks is represented by a single class.
for ages is a bit of an overstatement. Warrior only came back as a control class during Rumble when Odd Warrior finally became good enough (thanks to the Dragon package)
the only reason why Warrior even got to this point is because pretty much all other "control" classes got more proactive strategies (well that and Dr. Boom). Take Mage for example: the tools are all there but it's just more effective to be a bit more on the proactive side with Mountain Giants and whatnot.
In fact, Warrior just happens to be the only class who is still able to play the old school control game of "just remove everything your opponent have and win when they die from old age....which is mostly due to the complete overload of removal they have. Bommb Warrior was technically a step in the right direction (as are the new taunt cards) so I'm looking forward to the rotation when a lot of the overly efficient removal and Boom go away so Warrior can build their contorl decks more proactively
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
You are super late to the party, we have the exact same interaction for a looong time. Kobolds had corridor creeper which was literally the same but even easier to get on board early... That + unstable evolution did a lot of stuff... So next time you post circlejerk like this just don't, it's a very old strategy and definitely not that op
no we did not, because a) Creeper needed things to die first, and b) we didn'T have 0-mana evolution (not to mention we didn't really have a Shaman deck that is strong outside of shenanigans like this at the time)
but yeah, let'S call it circlejerk because yo can't form a coherent argument
It is circlejerk tho ;) and yea we didn't have 0 mana evolution but mutate sucks as a card, it's usually not worth being played so stop being a burger and man up
alright, so you just don't even bother to argue, you're just pretending like saying "card sucks, git gud" is enough. I thought you people stayed back on Hearthpwn.
Stop circlejerking about the subject all the time, and what makes people that are on Hearthpwn any worse than others?
at this point I'm inclined to forgive you because you seem to be unaware of what circlejerk actually means.
also you clearly haven't been to Hearthpwn lately.
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
You are super late to the party, we have the exact same interaction for a looong time. Kobolds had corridor creeper which was literally the same but even easier to get on board early... That + unstable evolution did a lot of stuff... So next time you post circlejerk like this just don't, it's a very old strategy and definitely not that op
no we did not, because a) Creeper needed things to die first, and b) we didn'T have 0-mana evolution (not to mention we didn't really have a Shaman deck that is strong outside of shenanigans like this at the time)
but yeah, let'S call it circlejerk because yo can't form a coherent argument
It is circlejerk tho ;) and yea we didn't have 0 mana evolution but mutate sucks as a card, it's usually not worth being played so stop being a burger and man up
alright, so you just don't even bother to argue, you're just pretending like saying "card sucks, git gud" is enough. I thought you people stayed back on Hearthpwn.
Well the combo is strong i give you that - but a cry for a Nerf is a little over the Top - at least in my oppinion! Sure the 8 Mana Slot is full of good minions but if Blizzard Nerfs every potential threat in the Game we could simply just stop playing because it would be boring - there will always be combos and cards that are better than others or strong but that is what the game needs - and there are classes like Warrior for Example who can deal with these kind of combos pretty easily!
Sure not every class but if every class would get an answer to everything the game would be boring or simply just stale ... and like someone stated above it is strong right now because most of the classes do not play tech cards for big minions - and also sure, not every class has but like i said above either play somekind of neutral tech or learn do live with the fact that not every class can counter everything.
And yes, most of the time the combo can high roll because of the many good 8 Mana Slot Minions but it can also happen that they mutate into Hir'eek, the Bat for example.
I personaly think that the combo is strong but does not need a nerf right now!
what is it with you people and the "it can fail occasionally therefore it's not that strong"? Hir'eek is literally the ONLY truly bad outcome, everything else is at least an upgrade.
Also yes, right now it probably won't get nerfed, but Quest Shaman will get stronger as it gets more cards and eventually someone's gonna win a tournament because of this nonsense and then everyone will act like it should have been nerfed from the start.
but I guess there are some people that like to get into win/lose situations by turn 3. Guesss we play the game for different reasons.
There's still a bunch of stuff thaht should probably be adressed, but overall yeah, the meta is at least diverse.
Granted, Mage kinda got dumpstered, but Highlander is still very much playable, so it's not that bad. The discovery nerf actually ended up being enough to finally take Warrior down a notch and even Murloc Paladin seems to fade away a bit (thank god)
If anyhting they'll have to address Priest eventually (again). Divine Spirit is just so very obviously shit design and they keep dancing around it. At the very least they seem to be running out of excuses at this point.
I fear that we're all gonna hate Zephrys at some point, but right now he's still fun (but there are a few times he just doesn't seem to get how the game works. someone needs to tell him that Deathrattles need to be silenced and there is, in fact, a 0-mana spell that does that.
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. You see a problem and immediatly cry nerf, rather then looking at the bigger picture. The simple reason of why mogu fleshshaper + mutate is powerfull is because people aren't running cards that awnser it. Or they have a removal option, but are playing a highlander deck and therefor can't consistently find their 1 awnser in time.
You won't hear the control warrior player complain as much about mogu fleshshaper evolve because he has the tools to deal with it. Same with the mecha'thun warlock player, he has plague of flames or voodoo doll + mortal coil to deal with an early big minion.
The fact is, cards like sap, shadow word death, subdue, hex, polymorph ... are seeing not enough play. There is a chance cards like ethereal lackey, vulpera scoundral, mana cyclone, can give you the removal you need but the chances usually aren't in your favor.
Sometimes you highroll your opponent, sometimes you get highrolled but you can't demand a nerf because you refuse to play the awnsers that are in the game or rely on inconsistent strategies to beat those highroller plays.
Cool. Now tell me what answers a turn 3 8-drop in Zoolock? Or in Aggro Warrior? Or in literally any deck that can't afford to run cheap removal (or just doesn't have it?)
the problem is not that Shaman has a highroll combo, it's that we're talking about a fairly common combo that neatly fits into an already powerful deck that punishes you for playing how you're supposed to.
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
You are super late to the party, we have the exact same interaction for a looong time. Kobolds had corridor creeper which was literally the same but even easier to get on board early... That + unstable evolution did a lot of stuff... So next time you post circlejerk like this just don't, it's a very old strategy and definitely not that op
no we did not, because a) Creeper needed things to die first, and b) we didn'T have 0-mana evolution (not to mention we didn't really have a Shaman deck that is strong outside of shenanigans like this at the time)
but yeah, let'S call it circlejerk because yo can't form a coherent argument
I don't think it's that big of a problem. It's a big power spike but most decks have big if not bigger power strikes right now. Priests are having 12/12+ on early turns, Edwin is still a card, druids are rushing two 5/5s for 5 (not even a combo), aggro warrior can do some nutty stuff with the merc. It's pretty far off from the value and power of conjurer's calling. Mogu + mutate isn't even super strong in several matchups and 8 drops has plenty of rolls that aren't too insane to deal with.
I think it's pretty important for the deck to get some raw tempo and it makes games interesting. Sometimes you get blown out but that just happens in hearthstone. you would have to change a lot of cards before it made sense to nerf that.
we'Re talking about a 2-card combo that punishes decks that are just playing their gameplan and have no other option to beat you.
We're talking about a 7-mana Sea Giant that also deals 3 damage.
Just wanna add that Mutate has the 4th highest Mulligan winrate in Quest SHaman atm...only beat by Questing Explorer (ofc), Cable Rat and for some reason Shudderwock.
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
ofc there are multiple combos but they all rely on specific interaction to be worth running. I beat it on Rogue with Pogo Hoppers because I got lucky enough to get double battlecry anomaly and found a couple Zilliax + the Bar boost that gives you multiple copies of a minion.
Point is that because of the RNG and the vast power differences between certain buckets and treasures certain runs are just doomed from the start
Druid is very flexible actuallly as the quest itself is more of a shell (similar to the ramp package of the past). All you really need are the few enablers + Oasis Surger and Hidden Oasis and you have the perfect defensive shell to fit a win condition into. Right now we have value, Malygos and Nomi builds and it's not too hard to imagine any new win condition fit into this style of deck easily.
Shaman will, in fact, not ALWAYS be good, because they depend heavily on battlecry win conditions. If they don't have another win condition by next year the rotation will destroy them. How does Quest Shaman win without Lifedrinker, Shudderwock, Former Champ, Giggling Inventor. How are they going to win without those? Just spam Lackeys to win?
Warlock isn't as limited as you might think either...it's just that there's currently not a lot of good healing defensive options to justify committing to a Plot twist deck (also the fact that Warrior basically cancels anything you might want to do anyways, but that's not Warlock's fault). The quest is actually pretty neat in the endgame, although it would be nice to have better shuffle options available. THat being said, the ability to shuffle and draw a specific card has potential
Rogue is in a funny spot where the reward is amazing and enables a lot of cool cards (especially Blade Flurry), but the activation is just so hard to pull off consistently (without having to mutilate your deck)
also Warrior is just redundant because it's not good enough to outclass control and not aggressive enough to replace straightforward aggro
this looks much more fun than the Dalaran Heist, purely because cross-class deckbuilding is always fun....also the overall powerlevel seems higher, which is great since the main problem in Dalaran was that at some point (especially the last chapter) you were basically forced to have a specific broken combo to actually beat the bosses.
Also, having only 4 heroes makes beating eevery chapter with each of them much less tedious than in Dalaran.
I feel like it's kinda petty to print a card to print a pure hate card that does nothing other than kneecap a specific archetype.
I'd much prefer a reprint of The Darkness in some form. You know...a card that has its own purpose and isn't specifically restricted to countering a single decktype (while still obviously being designed for that)
I also don't think a card like this would even see play, mainly because most of the Highlander cards aren't even that much of an issue. You can't just play this on curve and be like "suck it, your deck's unplayable now" because if they draw into 2 scrolls over the course of the game it was a wasted effort.
You effectively will have to predict at which point they'd want to play their respective Highlander (or Zephrys) which, in most cases will most likely be in an agressive deck that wants to prevent a Reno or Zephrys clear...and I doubt aggressive decks can afford an udnerstatted 4-drop that they actually need to draw into in time to get a benefit out of.
HIghlander decks are just a bit too consistent at the moment to really be hampered by this...just play Bomb Warrior if you want a counter.
I don't think it's really stealthy. It's just a direct nerf to cards like Flunky that are just way too strong on account of the class having only a handful of options
currently on my third attempt. Got it down to 40 on the first run, then down to 12 on the second mainly because I misread what Primordial Bulwark does and thought it would Iceblock me the entire turn.
Definitely having fun though. So many new treasure and synergies you get to try out. Definitely feels ilke a step up from Dalaran
see the positive side: that boss now has a sick clip for his highlight reel
for ages is a bit of an overstatement. Warrior only came back as a control class during Rumble when Odd Warrior finally became good enough (thanks to the Dragon package)
the only reason why Warrior even got to this point is because pretty much all other "control" classes got more proactive strategies (well that and Dr. Boom). Take Mage for example: the tools are all there but it's just more effective to be a bit more on the proactive side with Mountain Giants and whatnot.
In fact, Warrior just happens to be the only class who is still able to play the old school control game of "just remove everything your opponent have and win when they die from old age....which is mostly due to the complete overload of removal they have. Bommb Warrior was technically a step in the right direction (as are the new taunt cards) so I'm looking forward to the rotation when a lot of the overly efficient removal and Boom go away so Warrior can build their contorl decks more proactively
at this point I'm inclined to forgive you because you seem to be unaware of what circlejerk actually means.
also you clearly haven't been to Hearthpwn lately.
alright, so you just don't even bother to argue, you're just pretending like saying "card sucks, git gud" is enough. I thought you people stayed back on Hearthpwn.
what is it with you people and the "it can fail occasionally therefore it's not that strong"? Hir'eek is literally the ONLY truly bad outcome, everything else is at least an upgrade.
Also yes, right now it probably won't get nerfed, but Quest Shaman will get stronger as it gets more cards and eventually someone's gonna win a tournament because of this nonsense and then everyone will act like it should have been nerfed from the start.
but I guess there are some people that like to get into win/lose situations by turn 3. Guesss we play the game for different reasons.
There's still a bunch of stuff thaht should probably be adressed, but overall yeah, the meta is at least diverse.
Granted, Mage kinda got dumpstered, but Highlander is still very much playable, so it's not that bad. The discovery nerf actually ended up being enough to finally take Warrior down a notch and even Murloc Paladin seems to fade away a bit (thank god)
If anyhting they'll have to address Priest eventually (again). Divine Spirit is just so very obviously shit design and they keep dancing around it. At the very least they seem to be running out of excuses at this point.
I fear that we're all gonna hate Zephrys at some point, but right now he's still fun (but there are a few times he just doesn't seem to get how the game works. someone needs to tell him that Deathrattles need to be silenced and there is, in fact, a 0-mana spell that does that.
Cool. Now tell me what answers a turn 3 8-drop in Zoolock? Or in Aggro Warrior? Or in literally any deck that can't afford to run cheap removal (or just doesn't have it?)
the problem is not that Shaman has a highroll combo, it's that we're talking about a fairly common combo that neatly fits into an already powerful deck that punishes you for playing how you're supposed to.
no we did not, because a) Creeper needed things to die first, and b) we didn'T have 0-mana evolution (not to mention we didn't really have a Shaman deck that is strong outside of shenanigans like this at the time)
but yeah, let'S call it circlejerk because yo can't form a coherent argument
we'Re talking about a 2-card combo that punishes decks that are just playing their gameplan and have no other option to beat you.
We're talking about a 7-mana Sea Giant that also deals 3 damage.
Just wanna add that Mutate has the 4th highest Mulligan winrate in Quest SHaman atm...only beat by Questing Explorer (ofc), Cable Rat and for some reason Shudderwock.
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
then it's kind of a callback, isn't it
how sweet
ofc there are multiple combos but they all rely on specific interaction to be worth running. I beat it on Rogue with Pogo Hoppers because I got lucky enough to get double battlecry anomaly and found a couple Zilliax + the Bar boost that gives you multiple copies of a minion.
Point is that because of the RNG and the vast power differences between certain buckets and treasures certain runs are just doomed from the start
a few things:
Druid is very flexible actuallly as the quest itself is more of a shell (similar to the ramp package of the past). All you really need are the few enablers + Oasis Surger and Hidden Oasis and you have the perfect defensive shell to fit a win condition into. Right now we have value, Malygos and Nomi builds and it's not too hard to imagine any new win condition fit into this style of deck easily.
Shaman will, in fact, not ALWAYS be good, because they depend heavily on battlecry win conditions. If they don't have another win condition by next year the rotation will destroy them. How does Quest Shaman win without Lifedrinker, Shudderwock, Former Champ, Giggling Inventor. How are they going to win without those? Just spam Lackeys to win?
Warlock isn't as limited as you might think either...it's just that there's currently not a lot of good healing defensive options to justify committing to a Plot twist deck (also the fact that Warrior basically cancels anything you might want to do anyways, but that's not Warlock's fault). The quest is actually pretty neat in the endgame, although it would be nice to have better shuffle options available. THat being said, the ability to shuffle and draw a specific card has potential
Rogue is in a funny spot where the reward is amazing and enables a lot of cool cards (especially Blade Flurry), but the activation is just so hard to pull off consistently (without having to mutilate your deck)
also Warrior is just redundant because it's not good enough to outclass control and not aggressive enough to replace straightforward aggro
how do you decide what's a meme deck and what isn't`?
this looks much more fun than the Dalaran Heist, purely because cross-class deckbuilding is always fun....also the overall powerlevel seems higher, which is great since the main problem in Dalaran was that at some point (especially the last chapter) you were basically forced to have a specific broken combo to actually beat the bosses.
Also, having only 4 heroes makes beating eevery chapter with each of them much less tedious than in Dalaran.
I feel like it's kinda petty to print a card to print a pure hate card that does nothing other than kneecap a specific archetype.
I'd much prefer a reprint of The Darkness in some form. You know...a card that has its own purpose and isn't specifically restricted to countering a single decktype (while still obviously being designed for that)
I also don't think a card like this would even see play, mainly because most of the Highlander cards aren't even that much of an issue. You can't just play this on curve and be like "suck it, your deck's unplayable now" because if they draw into 2 scrolls over the course of the game it was a wasted effort.
You effectively will have to predict at which point they'd want to play their respective Highlander (or Zephrys) which, in most cases will most likely be in an agressive deck that wants to prevent a Reno or Zephrys clear...and I doubt aggressive decks can afford an udnerstatted 4-drop that they actually need to draw into in time to get a benefit out of.
HIghlander decks are just a bit too consistent at the moment to really be hampered by this...just play Bomb Warrior if you want a counter.
Rogue too. Myra Rotspring is much better now that it's more likely to get eggs isntead of useless Gral.
I don't think it's really stealthy. It's just a direct nerf to cards like Flunky that are just way too strong on account of the class having only a handful of options