I really have to recommend Krystalsmith Kangor in the deck. NOt only does he serve as a great consistency boost for crystology, but he is insane if you copy him and have healing available.
Zilliax healing for twelve, Truesilver healing for 8, Ancestral Guardian for 16.
It actually saved me a great deal of games against aggro since it puts them in an autoloss situation. If they can't kill me instantly they have to kill the kangors, which will heal me for a lot. If they can't kill the kangors I'll still heal and they'll enver outdamage me. Either way they lose.
I'M also not really a fan of Annoy-o and Bronze Gatekeeper. I prefer my Army to resummon me an egg or whelp which is essential to maintain a 100% winrate against Control WArrior
Tip the Scales will never happen because Blizzard doesn't do nerfs that basically implement "exceptions to the rule" only to nuke a certain combo. If anything they'll nuke Prismatic Lens. No idea why that card was printed in the first place when all it was ever going to do was enable dumb highrolling BS like this.
Also Quest Pally doesn't need nerfs whatsoever. It's the best Warrior hardcounter out there but against any other deck it's mostly average. Any aggressive deck (or Mage in general) can just run it down before it gets anywhere...also people still refuse to run silence despite Doomsayer running amok.
Druid Quest is massively overrated and needs no nerfs whatsoever. There's a reason why it hasn't cracked the 50% winrate mark on HSreplay when pretty much every other new archetype is doing well.
Shaman Quest is the same. Pretty low winrate for a deck made out to be the next Quest Rogue. If anything they'll end up nerfing it in a few months once people have figured out how to actually build a working deck instead of just making it a value generating lackey spammer with no real win condition.
Boom will get nerfed 100%....either him or literally every other card in Warrior's arsenal (about time they did something about Brawl)
also you didn't mention Conjurer's Calling and Pocket Galaxy which leads me to believe your priorities are a bit mixed up.
because why run a 2-mana silence that only hits some minions versus a 3-mana version that hits all.
There is no taunt worth silencing on curve at 2-mana.
Mana cost is really only relevant when it comes to tempo and with silence you usually don't use it for tempo but rather for a final push or to eliminate an enemy threat, both cases are usually not reliant on a specific mana cost unless you want to combo them with something particularly expensive
Ironbeak Owl was played in every single aggro deck to silence taunts at 2 mana I think owl would still be played as it was before why you guys now claim the mana cost of a silence card is irrelevant in an aggro deck? It doesn't work against edwin, or magnetic none taunt minions, but rogue is not a hard matchup for aggro decks.
a 2/1 for 2 is as understatted as a 4/3 for 4 it's 1 mana lower stat line you pay 1 for silence and 1 for the body.
About the last line I play mostly decks that rely on tempo the mana cost is relevant, with owl you can't Leeroy Jenkins + Inner Rage + Bloodsworn Mercenary as well as a similar combo with Grommash Hellscream the mana cost is relevant in said deck, and taunt is a huge speed bump or straight loss if played late game and you are holding those pieces. as well as the option to do other such finisher earlier.
once again, flexibility is the key here. There's no reason running a card that is a dead draw against certain decks for 1-mana less over just running flexible silence.
Also, yes, the mana cost is in fact irrelevant outside of a few niche cases (pretty much just the one you mentioned at the moment and Aggro Warrior doesn't even run Silence right now) and I can prove this by pointing to the fact that after Owl was nerfed, Spellbreaker became the silencer of choice because it wasn't important to have the cheapest silence but rather to have the most overall efficient...and a 4-mana 4/3 is better than a 3-mana 2/1.
If you're so adamant about Shieldbreaker being better then just run her in your aggro decks and then come back when you've lost enough games to minions you wanted to silence but couldn't and where the mana cost made no difference whatsoever.
IMO Uldum was just the first example of the class identity memo negatively impacting HS card design, with more to follow. I've heard that Plague of Madness was a last-minute change from an actual board clear because the devs belatedly realised that rogue's not allowed to have mass removal.
Publishing the class identity document was a totally unforced error on Blizzard's part: they could have just not posted the damn thing in a transparent attempt to rationalise their hall of fame decisions, but instead they gave everyone unlimited ammo to criticise any and all future choices by the developers, either for following the memo too strictly or for straying from it.
to be fair, if any of the other plagues are an indication, then Rogue having an AoE in any comparable form would be bad for the game in the long run...or it would just end up being useless because Rogue still doesn't get taunt or heals and needs to maintain board presence to beat aggression.
Also the dev team has been much more communicative lately so maybe they just wanted to get it out there to get some feedback...which should lead them to dropping this whole class identity BS and just design cards that give classes different option for building specific decks (like card draw in Hunter via Master'S Call and Subject 9 or card draw for Shaman via Spirit of the Frog)
I still don't know why they even bothered with that terrible post which literally says nothing of value (Demons are a STRENGTH for Warlock? I guess so if you consider being the only class to have demons printed for them as a strength)
Obligatory Shaman card generation meme
Granted, it could be that that post was written after SoU was designed (pretty much confirmed actually by Plague of Madness, which was at some point an AoE spell) so they haven't committed to it yet....but if they really go down this path then that's how Hearthstone will eventually die because every class just gets to do the same thing over and over again with no innovation.
Remember that Hunter would still be stuck with the old "hope you curve until Highmane, otherwise you have no chance to beat anyone" Midrange horseshit if it wasn't for cards like Subject 9 and Master's Call which actually incentivized deck building by offering Hunter a chance at reliable card draw.
Also, HUnter and swarming are kind of a thing. Not as much as Paladin, Shaman or Druid, but we have stuff like Halazzi, Snake Trap, as well as a general tendency to go wide in the early game (at least a lot of past Hunter decks did), so it's not really ouf of left field. The problem with the quest is mostly that it doesn't really seem to have a point considering the damage you accumulate with your regular hero power of the game is probably just about as much as you would get from the Quest reward with your final push.
Not to mention that there aren't that many good token cards for Hunter, so really you're just wasting deckspace trying to complete a quest that essentially does what Hunter is already good at: killing your opponent
because why run a 2-mana silence that only hits some minions versus a 3-mana version that hits all.
There is no taunt worth silencing on curve at 2-mana.
Mana cost is really only relevant when it comes to tempo and with silence you usually don't use it for tempo but rather for a final push or to eliminate an enemy threat, both cases are usually not reliant on a specific mana cost unless you want to combo them with something particularly expensive
Most people are just making their own lists and not replying to what i said specifically but that's alright, i don't mind. I do think i am overestimating rogue a bit, but the oppressive nature of the class in past metas, doubled with how easy the quest is to complete with so few cards leads me to believe it will happen.
to be fair, you said let's talk about quests and there's really no point to just comment on the stuff you've already figured out so instead we just give our own take so you have some comparison
Druid is probably too strong given the cards they have to support it.
Shaman is heavily ovevrrated for now, but will probably be much stronger once people cut all the greedy bullshit and focus on an actual gameplan that's not just "LOOK HOW MUCH STUFF I CAN MAKE""
Warlock is just pointless. It's not even bad, but there just no use for the Quest Reward other than Rafaam Highrolling, which is basically just a Hail Mary with no actual strategy
Mage is redundant
Rogue was way overhyped because as it turns out (like it always does) filling your deck with bad cards and sacrificing early tempo to get some mildly interesting reward later on is inferior to just using your tempo from turn one and just playing the best cards you can. Value Rogue doesn't work. It just doesn't. End of the debate
Priest is probably still underdeveloped and could do much better in the right deck, but the condition is also realy hard to fullfill so I don't see it working out in the long run. Better try Zoo Priest without it.
Warrior is underrated in my opinion and suffers heavily from people just not knowing how to build it (or just playing Whizbang). At the end of the day it brings a decent mid- to lategame value generator for something like Rush Warrior. Ultimately it probably gets outclassed by Aggro/Enrage Warrior though
Hunter is probably cool to pull off but ultimately pointless. As with Rogue, you sacrifice your early tempo and card quality to get a finisher later...but that finisher isn't even that great and only really synergizes with a select few minions.
Paladin was made out to be the worst Quest, but it'S actually quite legit. The main problem is that about 90% of available Reborn minions suck major ass and in the end you're still very prone to just being run over by faster decks, since the Reborn package already takes up so much space that you can't run a lot of Boardclear or removal. That being said, Crystalsmith Kangor is essential in that deck because you can quadruple your healing for a turn and do crazy stuff with Zilliax that way
To sum up:
Druid will be the main archetype for the class for years to come, simply because it's a flexible deck that's not just a one-dimensional Savage Roar to win snorefest
Shaman will only develop further and get stronger as time goes on and probably spawn multiple variations focussing on different things,
Rogue will fail just as much as most other Burgle buildarounds...I wonder when they'll realize that they can't make a value deck work for a class that isn't allowed to have reliable defenses forcing it to just play a worse version of regular tempo builds
Paladin will ultimately fail because Reborn is a SoU exclusive and the current options just won't cut it in a developed meta
Priest just depends on future support cards. The more cards that Heal or get damaged, the fast the quest completes and the better it's ultimately going to be
Warrior basically depends on whether someone finds a way to tie a Rush deck together with weapons...and if Control Warrior gets nerfed because with that deck around it's pointless to play anything else Warrior
Hunter is mainly just pointless, but there could be future support that ties the whole thing together, so who knows.
Mage will never see play as long as Conjurer's Calling remains unnerfed....same with any other Mage Archetype, because if you're not Calling you're basically throwing games
using HS replay within the first week of the expansion means jackshit tbh
Their site is heavily flawed when they don't have that much data
I remember when Even Paladin was still the highest winrate deck...post nerf...still running Call to Arms...
Paladin just preys on all the greedy decks that don't run AoE (or know how to capitalize on a deck that has no removal and runs a very predictable amount of minions...probably could beat it with Quest warlock to be honest)
I feel the same honestly...the whole "new" aspect kind of loses me once you start realising the vast power difference between the quests.
Like, it's all fun and games playing Quest Warlock until you realize that even with a deck perfectly geared towards beating aggression you still just get run down because some classes just get to do unfair stuff so you basically are forced to also play a deck with unfair stuff or else you can't win.
It's just tiring when expansion after expansion deckbuilding is irrelevant compared to just stacking the most powerful cards available
I don't get what your plan is supposed to be? Is it aggro , Midrange or Control?
If you wanna make Finley work try a full on mech/tempo deck where you abuse magnetize and every single good aggro/tempo card available to Pally right now and then hope to highroll with Finley and use Zephrys to fish for a finisher
Stuff you should include: Argent Squire, Salhets Pride, possibly even Sandwasp Queen
You can include some defensive cards like Subdue or maybe even Shrink Ray (if Mage takes over), but stuff like Colossus, A New Challenger or Pharaoh's Blessing are way too slow and inconsistent
Also, not playing Zilliax in 2019 is basically trolling
Quest wouldn't even be so terrible if there were some actually useful reborn minions...but pretty much only Bonewraith is even remotely good and everything else is basically run out of obligation
not to mention that none of the Reborn minions are even that great to use with the quest reward so you actually have to include a bunch of Deathrattles to even make the quest work....also it takes way too long. How come Shaman gets the best reward for only 6 battelcry minions with tons of support, but Pally needs to play 5 minions with a keyword exclusive to this expansion only
there's not even the possibility of it improving, it's just gonna eternally suck
I really have to recommend Krystalsmith Kangor in the deck. NOt only does he serve as a great consistency boost for crystology, but he is insane if you copy him and have healing available.
Zilliax healing for twelve, Truesilver healing for 8, Ancestral Guardian for 16.
It actually saved me a great deal of games against aggro since it puts them in an autoloss situation. If they can't kill me instantly they have to kill the kangors, which will heal me for a lot. If they can't kill the kangors I'll still heal and they'll enver outdamage me. Either way they lose.
I'M also not really a fan of Annoy-o and Bronze Gatekeeper. I prefer my Army to resummon me an egg or whelp which is essential to maintain a 100% winrate against Control WArrior
Tip the Scales will never happen because Blizzard doesn't do nerfs that basically implement "exceptions to the rule" only to nuke a certain combo. If anything they'll nuke Prismatic Lens. No idea why that card was printed in the first place when all it was ever going to do was enable dumb highrolling BS like this.
Also Quest Pally doesn't need nerfs whatsoever. It's the best Warrior hardcounter out there but against any other deck it's mostly average. Any aggressive deck (or Mage in general) can just run it down before it gets anywhere...also people still refuse to run silence despite Doomsayer running amok.
Druid Quest is massively overrated and needs no nerfs whatsoever. There's a reason why it hasn't cracked the 50% winrate mark on HSreplay when pretty much every other new archetype is doing well.
Shaman Quest is the same. Pretty low winrate for a deck made out to be the next Quest Rogue. If anything they'll end up nerfing it in a few months once people have figured out how to actually build a working deck instead of just making it a value generating lackey spammer with no real win condition.
Boom will get nerfed 100%....either him or literally every other card in Warrior's arsenal (about time they did something about Brawl)
also you didn't mention Conjurer's Calling and Pocket Galaxy which leads me to believe your priorities are a bit mixed up.
once again, flexibility is the key here. There's no reason running a card that is a dead draw against certain decks for 1-mana less over just running flexible silence.
Also, yes, the mana cost is in fact irrelevant outside of a few niche cases (pretty much just the one you mentioned at the moment and Aggro Warrior doesn't even run Silence right now) and I can prove this by pointing to the fact that after Owl was nerfed, Spellbreaker became the silencer of choice because it wasn't important to have the cheapest silence but rather to have the most overall efficient...and a 4-mana 4/3 is better than a 3-mana 2/1.
If you're so adamant about Shieldbreaker being better then just run her in your aggro decks and then come back when you've lost enough games to minions you wanted to silence but couldn't and where the mana cost made no difference whatsoever.
to be fair, if any of the other plagues are an indication, then Rogue having an AoE in any comparable form would be bad for the game in the long run...or it would just end up being useless because Rogue still doesn't get taunt or heals and needs to maintain board presence to beat aggression.
Also the dev team has been much more communicative lately so maybe they just wanted to get it out there to get some feedback...which should lead them to dropping this whole class identity BS and just design cards that give classes different option for building specific decks (like card draw in Hunter via Master'S Call and Subject 9 or card draw for Shaman via Spirit of the Frog)
I still don't know why they even bothered with that terrible post which literally says nothing of value (Demons are a STRENGTH for Warlock? I guess so if you consider being the only class to have demons printed for them as a strength)
Obligatory Shaman card generation meme
Granted, it could be that that post was written after SoU was designed (pretty much confirmed actually by Plague of Madness, which was at some point an AoE spell) so they haven't committed to it yet....but if they really go down this path then that's how Hearthstone will eventually die because every class just gets to do the same thing over and over again with no innovation.
Remember that Hunter would still be stuck with the old "hope you curve until Highmane, otherwise you have no chance to beat anyone" Midrange horseshit if it wasn't for cards like Subject 9 and Master's Call which actually incentivized deck building by offering Hunter a chance at reliable card draw.
Also, HUnter and swarming are kind of a thing. Not as much as Paladin, Shaman or Druid, but we have stuff like Halazzi, Snake Trap, as well as a general tendency to go wide in the early game (at least a lot of past Hunter decks did), so it's not really ouf of left field. The problem with the quest is mostly that it doesn't really seem to have a point considering the damage you accumulate with your regular hero power of the game is probably just about as much as you would get from the Quest reward with your final push.
Not to mention that there aren't that many good token cards for Hunter, so really you're just wasting deckspace trying to complete a quest that essentially does what Hunter is already good at: killing your opponent
because why run a 2-mana silence that only hits some minions versus a 3-mana version that hits all.
There is no taunt worth silencing on curve at 2-mana.
Mana cost is really only relevant when it comes to tempo and with silence you usually don't use it for tempo but rather for a final push or to eliminate an enemy threat, both cases are usually not reliant on a specific mana cost unless you want to combo them with something particularly expensive
Quest Paladin is so much more consistent and versatile than I thought.
It probably benefits a lot from people not running very tempo/aggro oriented lists, but overall it feels like a much better version of Mech Pally
Quest Pally is technically fairly cheap since the only expensive new cards are the Quest and Micro Mummy
to be fair, you said let's talk about quests and there's really no point to just comment on the stuff you've already figured out so instead we just give our own take so you have some comparison
I don't see how you can confuse a glowy light bubble and a blue spiky icicles
guess we know who to blame in the future
Druid is probably too strong given the cards they have to support it.
Shaman is heavily ovevrrated for now, but will probably be much stronger once people cut all the greedy bullshit and focus on an actual gameplan that's not just "LOOK HOW MUCH STUFF I CAN MAKE""
Warlock is just pointless. It's not even bad, but there just no use for the Quest Reward other than Rafaam Highrolling, which is basically just a Hail Mary with no actual strategy
Mage is redundant
Rogue was way overhyped because as it turns out (like it always does) filling your deck with bad cards and sacrificing early tempo to get some mildly interesting reward later on is inferior to just using your tempo from turn one and just playing the best cards you can. Value Rogue doesn't work. It just doesn't. End of the debate
Priest is probably still underdeveloped and could do much better in the right deck, but the condition is also realy hard to fullfill so I don't see it working out in the long run. Better try Zoo Priest without it.
Warrior is underrated in my opinion and suffers heavily from people just not knowing how to build it (or just playing Whizbang). At the end of the day it brings a decent mid- to lategame value generator for something like Rush Warrior. Ultimately it probably gets outclassed by Aggro/Enrage Warrior though
Hunter is probably cool to pull off but ultimately pointless. As with Rogue, you sacrifice your early tempo and card quality to get a finisher later...but that finisher isn't even that great and only really synergizes with a select few minions.
Paladin was made out to be the worst Quest, but it'S actually quite legit. The main problem is that about 90% of available Reborn minions suck major ass and in the end you're still very prone to just being run over by faster decks, since the Reborn package already takes up so much space that you can't run a lot of Boardclear or removal. That being said, Crystalsmith Kangor is essential in that deck because you can quadruple your healing for a turn and do crazy stuff with Zilliax that way
To sum up:
Druid will be the main archetype for the class for years to come, simply because it's a flexible deck that's not just a one-dimensional Savage Roar to win snorefest
Shaman will only develop further and get stronger as time goes on and probably spawn multiple variations focussing on different things,
Rogue will fail just as much as most other Burgle buildarounds...I wonder when they'll realize that they can't make a value deck work for a class that isn't allowed to have reliable defenses forcing it to just play a worse version of regular tempo builds
Paladin will ultimately fail because Reborn is a SoU exclusive and the current options just won't cut it in a developed meta
Priest just depends on future support cards. The more cards that Heal or get damaged, the fast the quest completes and the better it's ultimately going to be
Warrior basically depends on whether someone finds a way to tie a Rush deck together with weapons...and if Control Warrior gets nerfed because with that deck around it's pointless to play anything else Warrior
Hunter is mainly just pointless, but there could be future support that ties the whole thing together, so who knows.
Mage will never see play as long as Conjurer's Calling remains unnerfed....same with any other Mage Archetype, because if you're not Calling you're basically throwing games
using HS replay within the first week of the expansion means jackshit tbh
Their site is heavily flawed when they don't have that much data
I remember when Even Paladin was still the highest winrate deck...post nerf...still running Call to Arms...
Paladin just preys on all the greedy decks that don't run AoE (or know how to capitalize on a deck that has no removal and runs a very predictable amount of minions...probably could beat it with Quest warlock to be honest)
Watch the Duck Tales reboot
not really related to your tastes, but it's the best thing Disney has produced in the last couple years
I feel the same honestly...the whole "new" aspect kind of loses me once you start realising the vast power difference between the quests.
Like, it's all fun and games playing Quest Warlock until you realize that even with a deck perfectly geared towards beating aggression you still just get run down because some classes just get to do unfair stuff so you basically are forced to also play a deck with unfair stuff or else you can't win.
It's just tiring when expansion after expansion deckbuilding is irrelevant compared to just stacking the most powerful cards available
so basically Jaraxxus, but except for a hero power you have to play a 6-mana minion.
Sounds pointless tbh
Bazaar Burglary...which is just as redundant as I thought it would be
I don't get what your plan is supposed to be? Is it aggro , Midrange or Control?
If you wanna make Finley work try a full on mech/tempo deck where you abuse magnetize and every single good aggro/tempo card available to Pally right now and then hope to highroll with Finley and use Zephrys to fish for a finisher
Stuff you should include: Argent Squire, Salhets Pride, possibly even Sandwasp Queen
You can include some defensive cards like Subdue or maybe even Shrink Ray (if Mage takes over), but stuff like Colossus, A New Challenger or Pharaoh's Blessing are way too slow and inconsistent
Also, not playing Zilliax in 2019 is basically trolling
Quest wouldn't even be so terrible if there were some actually useful reborn minions...but pretty much only Bonewraith is even remotely good and everything else is basically run out of obligation
not to mention that none of the Reborn minions are even that great to use with the quest reward so you actually have to include a bunch of Deathrattles to even make the quest work....also it takes way too long. How come Shaman gets the best reward for only 6 battelcry minions with tons of support, but Pally needs to play 5 minions with a keyword exclusive to this expansion only
there's not even the possibility of it improving, it's just gonna eternally suck
anything aside from Shaman or Rogue is kinda pointless...at least for now.
Druid is good, but has no win condition.
In other words, we're probably gonna have another Un'goro at our hands until they break the meta back into place via nerfs