A new Demon Hunter card has been revealed by Basarcos!
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Comments
While I completely agree with you, I kind of thought that what you just described was the whole point of the card lol. I thought dh wasn't oppressive as it was before all the nerfs, but even before them it would always be an easy win for me when I'm playing as galakrond priest. If dh is already too strong for control decks without this card, then this card is not really the problem. Priest always ends up being one of the strongest classes at the end of each hs year because they gain so many board clears it completely extinguishes aggro decks from the meta and I thought this was an interesting way to counter that pattern. As for healing cards, I can't think of anything common other than Renew and Nether breath, which could easily be played a turn earlier if you're afraid of shuffling your hand. I understand the frustration people come from but your reply didn't take into consideration how polarized the meta becomes without cards like these.
As a control player, i absolutly hate this card. Let's see if the meta is not just face DH/hunter everywhere with no counters avaiable because they can trade their minions without losing them and also reduce the opponent's hand to only 4 cards.
I know that card will be a pain for me sooner or later, but i can't wait to play it after a Juicy Psychmelon.
Huge anti-Control tool for Aggro decks.
In Aggro vs Aggro DH still wins.
Do DH even have any bad cards so far?!?
I mean, release was months ago, there's no need to push them over the top, again...
I'm just glad it's not Odd.
It's always hard to gauge a cards power level before the whole expansion launches and the meta settles (hello Lady in White) but this does seem incredibly powerful.
At some point so much anger will be concentrated on this one card that team5 will nerf/change it just because they've been receiving death threats. And no wonder. This is likely to either be a 5 star middle finger to your opponent's face or a 1 star shitshow that never gets played and stranded on the left side of your hand.
So let's see what's the best use of this card. Against control decks, this is straight up insane, nearly close to just discarding 5 cards from your opponents hand. Against combo, well, its potentially just game winning all on its own. Against highlander, they'll either draw their power cards from this or they just concede cause there's no card draw potential left. Its obviously worst vs aggro, but then again, if that's the weakness of this card rest assured that's the same weakness most power cards have in hearthstone anyway.
Dhunters have some of the best draw cards in the game, so the effect is barely felt on their side. In some cases, it might even draw cards. For your opponent, this is straight counter to rogue, control warrior, druids, and priest. More so against priest actually. Instant 5 star card played in big dhunters vs priest, since it'll almost certainly remove most of their ability to counter your big dudes.
I'm a little conflicted. The card supports big and control archetypes of dhunter, but at the same time, since tempo plays 2x Vulpera Scoundrel, it can be easily discovered and massively fuck the other side immediately and give tempo dhunters a window of opportunity.
Let's hope it doesn't come to death threats(!), that would be awful - but the conversation around this card reminds me of something Asmodai said on his stream on Day 1 of Ashes of Outland in response to the over-tuned Demon Hunter release (one of the only times I have seen him play DH, and I watch bits of his stream almost daily):
(paraphrasing) "If you want to see something OP nerfed, just keep playing it and playing it and they will nerf it." That's a rough paraphrase, but the next day came the first wave of nerfs on Demon Hunter, and it dropped from like 85% playrate by about 20% if I recall correctly.
Hopefully if this card is indeed omnipresent and oppressive, Blizzard will be suitably responsive for the health of the game and the players.
Goodbye control Decks. 'Nuff said
People... Opponent doesn't always have 9 cards in hand... Aggro might have their hand empty too.... and then this card sucks...
Worst case scenario, at the end of turn three you run out of cards in your hand, classic DH. Your opponent also empties their hand on their turn after yours. Your turns starts you topdeck Glide. Here is the downside.
Let's assume you went first this game. You hit four mana before your opponent. The "downside" essentially restarts the game but you're not going second without the coin. Except here's the thing. You're no playing normal cards like your hunter/rogue/shaman aggro opponent. You're playing busted DH cards. That 1 for 1, are always going to be better than whatever your opponent draws. Essentially your four draws are worth MORE than your opponents draws, because your class is more busted.
Now. Let's say you went second. Same scenario. You didn't coin out this card, you played it on four mana, when your opponent also has four mana. You'd be behind a turn right? Right. EXCEPT for the fact your cards are so busted as a DH already that making up that distance takes literally nothing. And by turn four you were probably a turn ahead anyway. So your opponent draws their fifth card, and takes the turn playing catchup to you. Now on your turn you resume where you started playing busted minion after busted minion all over again resuming where you left off.
The downside in any other class, with fair mechanics and balanced cards would hurt. A lot. But not in DH. In DH it's literally nothing.
It really wrecks combo though. First Juicy Psychmelon, then this...
Probably won’t see it too much in Wild because it is even costed at 4. But if a non-Odd DH gets traction this plus an Augmented Elekk can disrupt opponents by not only shuffling cards back into their deck, but should also give them copies and turn off Reno effects. It then also gives the DH copies of what it shuffled in, making for a pseudo card generation tool when used with Elekk. I’d be interested to see a type of control or disruption variant of DH come around in Wild. But again... it’s not odd, and Odd DH is still pretty strong without Warglaives. And it’s likely just way too slow for Wild anyway. So my dream is likely just a meme!
Obvious insane power of this card aside, I think we should consider how consistently will this card be really effective considering it costs 4 and disruption only happens on outcast. Sorry, I haven't really played standard after the nerfs but I got the feeling that the class has been slowed considerably.
Tempo demon hunter can empty their hand before turn 5 for this card EASILY. It's not a tech card. It's not something you think about using. It's draw 4, fuck you opponent.
Not sure what DH you’ve been seeing at your rank, but for me, DH hardly ever runs into empty hand, and by no means by turn 5.
For that you need to play 7 cards for a total of 10 mana. Which in best case scenario would mean 1drop, 2drop, 3drop followed by 4 1drops. That is a really, really tall order with current DH build
My logic was that playing this on turn 5 effectively loses you a turn, leaving you with only 1 mana. Sure it can mess up your opponent's hand, but it can also help them if they have useless cards in hand. The only annoying thing is that you have to adapt to a certain playstyle of not saving resources for too long when playing against DH.
It's pretty naive how you think this card was printed because it could help the opponent lose their terrible hand after the mulligan phase, where you're supposed to pick the best cards in a matchup, this card making that literally useless. Also playing this on turn five would float a mana, at least it would if the class didn't have an inbuilt way to use solitary mana. But your last take is literally the worst.
"The only annoying thing is that you have to adapt to a certain playstyle of not saving resources for too long when playing against DH."
Saving aoe against board greedy opponents is a mainstay of hearthstone. "Should i used this boardclear now or should i save it until they play more minions" This has always been a thing. But suddenly you're not allowed to keep boardclears in your mulligan against DH anymore. Because it's useless. They can play this and it's gone to the bottom of your deck again, even though you SPECIFICALLY PICKED the card for the matchup you went into. Is this good game design in your opinion? Even in the worst possible scenario, you as a demon hunter play this when you have no cards against an opponent who also has no cards in hand on turn 4. You both draw up to four cards. And your opponent draws up to five on their turn. All this does negatively for you as the demon hunter playing is set you to the second player to start the game and the game resets. Which is literally NOTHING.
Ok first of all, calm the frick down.
Second of all, I did not say that I "think this card was printed because it could help the opponent lose their terrible hand after the mulligan phase", I know it's not printed FOR that purpose. What I meant to say it MIGHT backfire sometimes, making the disruption effect not 100% consistent. Picking the best available cards in your mulligan is not "literally useless", as you said, and your precious board clears will not necessarily go to the bottom of your deck.
"Saving aoe against board greedy opponents is a mainstay of hearthstone." This applies only if your board greedy opponent can choose whether to play a minion or save it until after their board is cleared. The way the demon hunter class and the outcast mechanic are designed, it shouldn't be the case. If they dump their hand and already went all in on the board, you know that their last card in hand could be Glide so you are put under pressure to clear the board immediately. After it is played, you are both put in the same position but the control opponent gets to act FIRST, since you cannot do anything relevant with 1 mana at turn 5. The game is not reset with the DH as going second since this card does NOTHING on board, allowing the opponent to maintain and develop their board, which is far from what you are claiming. Also, why should the control class always have the upper hand, being able to save one card in hand to clear an entire board of minions whenever it suits them the most? This card suits the design philosophy of DH perfectly and allows the games with DH to be a little more interesting than just pure card dumping and face hitting vs surviving and clearing the board when you find it best. I DO NOT think this is good game design, but I am trying to understand the team's logic since I refuse to believe they would print these kinds of cards without any playtesting, especially after the ocean of nerfs the class was hit with. I did not initially aim to defend the card, but wanted to motivate a discussion about this card other than saying it's "OP and annoying".
divine favour on steroids. it must be a DH card then
Good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.