This is super cool and incredibly well done thread. I love the concept and I especially would like to see some previous years of standards play mode. I miss some of the decks from the first year I started playing.
I actually like Rush a lot. though i do understand why some people don't.
It helps offset the the advantage of attackers initiative. In board based matchups it allows you to fight back on the board instead of just being value traded into. This mitigates the value of just going first.
It helps make up for the lack of blocking in hearthstone. It allows you to force certain trades to happen and impact the board immediately without just being a spell. it makes you think about trades differently.
It also helps midrange decks be more reactive instead of just slamming stats, and it helps control decks be more about fighting for the board. I'd rather control decks be playing minions on the board than just playing a removal spell every turn.
Don't see how refunds would give people "free stuff" it would just give you the choice again if you want to craft the nerfed card again or if you want to craft something else *instead*
Besides what riot said is they will patch the game every 2 weeks But only once a month it will be a balance change patch (aka big patch)
We will see what's their initial policy about nerfing cards.. Hoping for the fairest concept of giving the players the choice with wild cards...
Champions cost 3000. I believe it was 4000 in earlier stages of development as I have seen sites mention 4000, but I started playing 2 weeks ago, so don't quote me on this. My first expedition was a disaster. 2 trials of 0 wins. LOL. At least I got a champion I didn't have. If someone has an almost full collection, then ending an expedition with 5 wins (or even 6) is barely worth it. Of course, you also gain experience with the game and you get to play with cards you don't currently own, so there's that. Right now I am staying away from them until I become more experienced and I'll just keep hoarding tokens from the weekly vault.
Not only that, for any long time HS Arena player, Expeditions will be your new home, tho the entry price is kinda a lot steeper in comparison, but with Vault token and not an abysmal first run, you should be able to afford to pay entry three times each week. It is about playing with a deck that you cannot build otherwise, more than two regions, more than 3 copies of a card etc. Just go nuts and have fun :)
I think the best scenario would be: they let you convert the changed cards into wild cards ... you dont get to keep the cards and get wild cards, but you would get an option to get something else. I think that would be pretty fair for both sides.
That being said, i dont think they will refund at all, since they are comitted to do an update every two weeks, that would potentially be a lot of "free" stuff. Not that it would be that bad to give that out, but given how they do updates in LOL, as already said, they dont just outright make things unplayable, they try to find a balance and they are not affraid to buff it right back if need to.
IF Riot will refund anything, I would expect DoubleSummon being right (nerfed cards get converted into wild cards). This would be nice, but I would not be too surprised if nerfs won't give any kind of refunds. They plan on implementing balance changes every two weeks, which I think means that a lot of cards have a high chance of eventually being nerfed or buffed, and that they will try to keep the nerfs and buffs as small as possible. This would result in balance patches just being a source of free resources, which is not what balance patches should be about. However, since converting nerfed cards into wild cards ends up being the same in terms of total resources, I think this is the most likely form of refunds we might get.
Btw you are right about League of Legends, players don't get anything if a champion they own/play is nerfed. This makes sense though, since balance patches are very frequent and there are a lot of players who own most champions (+there are a looot of champions), meaning that nerf refunds would just be more free stuff in an already free to play friendly game.
I think the best solution to the problem is to refund the nerfed cards to wild cards if you own the nerfed card, that way it can't be abused in any way and it's always fair to both riot and the players, you can recraft the card that was just changed, or craft another deck if you want.
We will see I really support constant card changes, that's the main reason the game is so accessible - so it can be frequently changed... Once per month balance changes are really a lot for a card game.
Unlike Hearthstone you can't hoard cards beyond their maximum number so they won't have to worry about giving out too much.
I'd probably assume they'd give everyone respective wild cards according to how many copies of the card you own. LoR doesn't really have a dusting system, so it's kind of impossible to implement a system in which you can "refund" something.
ON the other hand they'd have to give out free wild cards whenever they want to nerf any card..or even multiple ones for the same card if the nerf it twice. It would also mean that you can basically "cheat" the system by crafting all the card when their nerfs are announced and basically get them for free.
I honestly have no idea how they're gonna implement it in a way that isn't going to be abused in some way. I don't think they can get away with doing no refunds whatsoever....especially since you can buy cards with real money.
By the time you've maxed out all regions, it seems like you won't really need much more than the Vault.
Maybe if you want to continue working on a maxed-out region, they should add some cosmetic benefits you can work toward. These should not be purchasable with cash, so they will be a true indication of your dedication to that region.
So Riot has stated we're going to get our first real balance patch on Feb-18, and my question is: what do you think their policy will be do for nerfed cards? E.g.: for Hearthstone, for 2 weeks after a patch that changes a particular card to have less power, players can refund that card for 100% of its crafting dust (roughly equivalent to converting it into LoR shards equivalent to its wildcard rarity). Significantly, it's ONLY the cards that were changed--many times, a single card out of a multiple-card synergy will be nerfed leaving players angry that the other cards now have no place in the meta yet can only be dusted for the standard 25% refund. I'm not as familiar with MtG:Arena, but I saw in the recent Oko/etc nerf that they banned the cards from the popular formats and everyone automatically received wildcards of equal quantity and rarity.
For the closed LoR betas Riot didn't do anything, but I'm discounting that because the collections weren't "real" then--all collections were planned to be reset and all coins were refunded. Now, if you go and buy wildcards with cash to craft specific cards, that's effectively permanently spent.
My personal guess: they won't refund anything. Unlike MtG, they can actively tweak cards after publishing and unlike Blizzard, Riot seems to be committed to balancing rather than just hindering cards until they cease to be relevant. This seems to be their design philosophy with League of Legends: they want all champions to be relevant, so they will buff and nerf a particular champions over and over until they find equilibrium--and as such, they don't give refunds. (At least not as far as I can tell; I'm not a big LoL player so please tell me if I'm wrong here.) I could potentially see them giving out some shards in LoR just to placate players who are used to the other systems--especially if complaints get too vocal--but I don't think there will be any consequential.
Yeah, it seems like the wildcards limit will work for this current set, but if players buy the maximum every week they’ll be able to get the entire next expansion when it releases, making the limit only relevant for new paying players (which seems against the spirit of the limits). Maybe they’ll make it so that you can’t buy wildcards if you have all the cards of that rarity already
This. I think you shouldn't be able to accumulate wildcards bought with real money from multiple months. It defeats the whole purpose of "nobody can get everything instantly when a new expansion launches"
There's the additional issue that you can buy wildcards and sit on them while still collecting cards via region rewards.
So it's not as simple as just cutting off wildcard purchases after the player has collected them all.
(I'm actually not sure I want or need to buy more wildcards at this point, because I have so many potential free ones waiting in the wings.)
No, you play 1 Patches and get 6 more out of your deck, for a full board. Repeat every turn for each slot available on board, until Patches supplies last ^^
Forum Favourites - "Tables, A Way To Play Hearthstone With Your Own Rules" by griffior
Thank you! :)
Forum Favourites - "Tables, A Way To Play Hearthstone With Your Own Rules" by griffior
Oh. My. God.
Thank you for featuring my concept!
I sincerely hope this inspires others to come up with cool ways to expand Hearthstone!
Tables, A Way To Play Hearthstone With Your Own Rules.
This is super cool and incredibly well done thread. I love the concept and I especially would like to see some previous years of standards play mode. I miss some of the decks from the first year I started playing.
The Pepper Thread - Share Some Good Vibes!
I am having fun with my
Wild · Shuffle Rogue · by Teuton · 6 years, 8 months ago
It is mediocre, probably wins around 50%, but it's a little tempo, a little combo, a little value just like I like it, and I didn't net deck :)
Does anyone else feel like rush has ruined the game?
I actually like Rush a lot. though i do understand why some people don't.
It helps offset the the advantage of attackers initiative. In board based matchups it allows you to fight back on the board instead of just being value traded into. This mitigates the value of just going first.
It helps make up for the lack of blocking in hearthstone. It allows you to force certain trades to happen and impact the board immediately without just being a spell. it makes you think about trades differently.
It also helps midrange decks be more reactive instead of just slamming stats, and it helps control decks be more about fighting for the board. I'd rather control decks be playing minions on the board than just playing a removal spell every turn.
I really like rush as an evergreen mechanic.
My 12-0 road to legend anti-druid deck
So it's pretty much galakrond rogue with anti dragon tech?
So, how long is Deny gonna stay at 3 mana?
Playing big, powerful spells MUST have an opportunity cost beyond just the mana expenditure. There MUST be an inherent risk.
Deny is that risk. Any change that obviates that risk is a non-starter. Making it so Deny works only on cheap spells is out of the question.
Forum Favourites - "Tables, A Way To Play Hearthstone With Your Own Rules" by griffior
Great job on the article, Griffior!
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
I don't see any reason for any kind of refund.
Cards are extremely easy to come by in this game -- plus, if they nerf correctly, the altered card would not become useless.
Refunds are a tacit admission that the affected cards are no longer worth playing -- something that should never happen in practice.
Looking at Riot's previous nerfs, every single altered card is still very strong.
Unreleased & Datamined Emotes for Legends of Runeterra
Finally some Shadowed Isles love!
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
Don't see how refunds would give people "free stuff" it would just give you the choice again if you want to craft the nerfed card again or if you want to craft something else *instead*
Besides what riot said is they will patch the game every 2 weeks But only once a month it will be a balance change patch (aka big patch)
We will see what's their initial policy about nerfing cards.. Hoping for the fairest concept of giving the players the choice with wild cards...
Find missing word
Those aren't words in Hearthstone unless you skip letters (there's more like son if you do). But you still get universal karma so it's all good :)
By all means find more!
Shards
Not only that, for any long time HS Arena player, Expeditions will be your new home, tho the entry price is kinda a lot steeper in comparison, but with Vault token and not an abysmal first run, you should be able to afford to pay entry three times each week. It is about playing with a deck that you cannot build otherwise, more than two regions, more than 3 copies of a card etc. Just go nuts and have fun :)
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
I think the best scenario would be: they let you convert the changed cards into wild cards ... you dont get to keep the cards and get wild cards, but you would get an option to get something else. I think that would be pretty fair for both sides.
That being said, i dont think they will refund at all, since they are comitted to do an update every two weeks, that would potentially be a lot of "free" stuff. Not that it would be that bad to give that out, but given how they do updates in LOL, as already said, they dont just outright make things unplayable, they try to find a balance and they are not affraid to buff it right back if need to.
ANGRY yétis
The Ionia is a bit awkward--you're basically just splashing it for Zed's utility and card draw. Have you considered P&Z? Professor von Yipp, Counterfeit Copies, and Parade Electrorig.
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
IF Riot will refund anything, I would expect DoubleSummon being right (nerfed cards get converted into wild cards). This would be nice, but I would not be too surprised if nerfs won't give any kind of refunds. They plan on implementing balance changes every two weeks, which I think means that a lot of cards have a high chance of eventually being nerfed or buffed, and that they will try to keep the nerfs and buffs as small as possible. This would result in balance patches just being a source of free resources, which is not what balance patches should be about. However, since converting nerfed cards into wild cards ends up being the same in terms of total resources, I think this is the most likely form of refunds we might get.
Btw you are right about League of Legends, players don't get anything if a champion they own/play is nerfed. This makes sense though, since balance patches are very frequent and there are a lot of players who own most champions (+there are a looot of champions), meaning that nerf refunds would just be more free stuff in an already free to play friendly game.
The Statistically Worst Hero Choices in Hearthstone Battlegrounds
and it's deadly with cave hydra^^
Blackrock Mountain
Yes, if you don't have even one individual chapter you can't buy for gold.
My 12-0 road to legend anti-druid deck
proof?
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
I think the best solution to the problem is to refund the nerfed cards to wild cards if you own the nerfed card, that way it can't be abused in any way and it's always fair to both riot and the players, you can recraft the card that was just changed, or craft another deck if you want.
We will see I really support constant card changes, that's the main reason the game is so accessible - so it can be frequently changed... Once per month balance changes are really a lot for a card game.
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
Maybe Shards or maybe Wild cards.
Unlike Hearthstone you can't hoard cards beyond their maximum number so they won't have to worry about giving out too much.
I'd probably assume they'd give everyone respective wild cards according to how many copies of the card you own. LoR doesn't really have a dusting system, so it's kind of impossible to implement a system in which you can "refund" something.
ON the other hand they'd have to give out free wild cards whenever they want to nerf any card..or even multiple ones for the same card if the nerf it twice. It would also mean that you can basically "cheat" the system by crafting all the card when their nerfs are announced and basically get them for free.
I honestly have no idea how they're gonna implement it in a way that isn't going to be abused in some way. I don't think they can get away with doing no refunds whatsoever....especially since you can buy cards with real money.
What if you've gotten ALL region rewards?
By the time you've maxed out all regions, it seems like you won't really need much more than the Vault.
Maybe if you want to continue working on a maxed-out region, they should add some cosmetic benefits you can work toward. These should not be purchasable with cash, so they will be a true indication of your dedication to that region.
Guess if/what Riot will give refunds for nerfed cards
So Riot has stated we're going to get our first real balance patch on Feb-18, and my question is: what do you think their policy will be do for nerfed cards? E.g.: for Hearthstone, for 2 weeks after a patch that changes a particular card to have less power, players can refund that card for 100% of its crafting dust (roughly equivalent to converting it into LoR shards equivalent to its wildcard rarity). Significantly, it's ONLY the cards that were changed--many times, a single card out of a multiple-card synergy will be nerfed leaving players angry that the other cards now have no place in the meta yet can only be dusted for the standard 25% refund. I'm not as familiar with MtG:Arena, but I saw in the recent Oko/etc nerf that they banned the cards from the popular formats and everyone automatically received wildcards of equal quantity and rarity.
For the closed LoR betas Riot didn't do anything, but I'm discounting that because the collections weren't "real" then--all collections were planned to be reset and all coins were refunded. Now, if you go and buy wildcards with cash to craft specific cards, that's effectively permanently spent.
My personal guess: they won't refund anything. Unlike MtG, they can actively tweak cards after publishing and unlike Blizzard, Riot seems to be committed to balancing rather than just hindering cards until they cease to be relevant. This seems to be their design philosophy with League of Legends: they want all champions to be relevant, so they will buff and nerf a particular champions over and over until they find equilibrium--and as such, they don't give refunds. (At least not as far as I can tell; I'm not a big LoL player so please tell me if I'm wrong here.) I could potentially see them giving out some shards in LoR just to placate players who are used to the other systems--especially if complaints get too vocal--but I don't think there will be any consequential.
What is your guess?
Economy throttle actually pointless?
There's the additional issue that you can buy wildcards and sit on them while still collecting cards via region rewards.
So it's not as simple as just cutting off wildcard purchases after the player has collected them all.
(I'm actually not sure I want or need to buy more wildcards at this point, because I have so many potential free ones waiting in the wings.)
No, you play 1 Patches and get 6 more out of your deck, for a full board. Repeat every turn for each slot available on board, until Patches supplies last ^^