Took the words right out of my mouth. I hope they don't nuke Dr. Boom, maybe just slightly tweak the rush mechanic and some of the hero power options.
Conjurer's Calling is just a problem. Dropping a Mountain Giant on turn 4-5 then multiplying it with this card is just too frustrating to deal with for non-aggro decks. And it's a twinspell, making it doubly frustrating. Maybe the mana cost will be upped, or the twinspell mechanic removed.
As for Zayle, Shadow Cloak, he has a smaller amount of decks that were not provided by Whizbang the Wonderful. As I mentioned once before in this thread, if they move him and want to keep the same number of 23 legendary minions in the Boomsday Project set, they already accomplished this by introducing SN1P-SN4P. Seeing as SN1P is the only random legendary addition to a set (not counting recent Classic set additions to replace HoF cards), it really leads me to believe they put him in the game as a planned replacement come April 2020 when Whiz moves to Classic.
As far as the "it'll hurt their profits" argument, it will ALSO be great for new players if Whiz is made Classic (or maybe even the final Basic reward card for unlocking all cards on all classes?). And I've continually seen veteran players complain on sites like this how Blizzard caters to new Hearthstone players and doesn't care about long time players. So why wouldn't they make a change to always allow new players an easy option to play new Standard constructed decks without having a large collection? And ultimately, bringing in new players and keeping fringe players going by always giving them the Whizbang option should theoretically help get more profits in the long run. Larger player base = larger base of potential spenders.
Quartermaster needs to be nerfed to 6 mana so it can't be played in Odd Paladin. That won't be enough to kill off the deck entirely, but it will greatly help reduce the win rate of the king of wild. It has been on the top for too long, and it's time to shake it up.
I'm concerned about Flame Ward in Aluneth Mage, but I'm not ready to call for a nerf. Just concerned that card is removing the main weakness of that deck, which was no board clear against aggro decks. Now that deck has an answer to everything.
And something needs to be changed with the graveyard mechanic. But that is never going to happen as we are just going to be waiting for "more" data forever.
I was intrigued to scroll through HS Replay and to find that the archetype currently running in Tier 2 as “Big Spell Mage” is 99% made up of Highlander decks, where the “bigness” is simply the payoff for the slow burn of the deck.
I’m currently flirting with a derivative of this archetype, below, that incorporates Raid the Sky Temple, which I’m calling Skylander (eh, get it?!). Despite how down everyone is on Quest Mage, no Highlander deck that I’ve seen has a Turn 1 play, and you drop enough random spells along the way to complete the quest at some point.
The trick simply is to not rush to complete the quest, and to just play as normal. Even if you only get one or two uses out of the hero power, it’s more use than you’ll get out of a Turn 8+ ping. And although it might seem counter-synergistic with King Phaoris, you can always drop Naga Sea Witch to round the lower mana cost spells back up to 5 for beefier bodies on the next turn. Seems like this would be the thread to solicit feedback if anyone has thoughts :)
Death by shit draws is the worst way to lose in this game. Give my enemy BS topdecks if you want, make me unable to answer every single cancerous 1-drop out there...
but
please
Blizzard,
Never, ever force me to just watch the game playing out like a helpless cuckold by slamming the cheap half of my deck on its bottom. Anything else, literally. I won't mind facing nothing but Odd Paladins and Mill Rogues without enough brain cells to rub together, but make Death By Shit Draws STOP!
Just give me a nice warning at the start like: "Uh oh, looks like your top 7 cards cost 5 or more mana. Would you like to concede now?" At least then I'll get the minimum of agency,
lol, you just destroyed all those decks. Why should they be nerfed? The meta settles and on hsreplay there are almost no decks with a higher winrate than 61-62%. And I think this is where Blizz wants to go.
I think every class has a deck currently that can make it to legend.
It's kinda funny--so far, its been the exact opposite.
Not that I'm throwing shade; I probably would have thought the exact same thing pre-release. I mean: who could have foreseen Finley being utilized exclusively for his tribal tag in Tip the Scales decks? Or that highlander mage or hunter decks being consistent enough to support tempo archetypes? It just goes to show you.
I won't be surprised if they print another version of Zayle with all the good guy classes as a reward for this expansion's adventure, as opposed to Zayle itself, which contains the classes that make the League of E.V.I.L.
But as for Whizbang, I agree that he should be moved to classic. He is evergreen, and uses deck recipes that exist in-game. I just don't know what's a good move for Blizzard in their perspective.
This is proof about how the Wild format isn't a dumpster for all the broken crap. Wins my confidence. Next time they sell a wild pack I'm ready to pony up. LOL not
If only there was a minion that summoned a minion from your opponents hand. Oh wait there are several. If people don't want to put in tech cards, their choice. Just can't get mad when they get combo'd on.
What? They literally have to do nothing to keep him up to date. He simply uses the deck recipes that are in the game since day one and are getting updated since the very first expansion
If doesn't matter if they could, they are not going to. If they were going to, then why print Zayle, Shadow Cloak which effectively does the same but shuffles out of Standard on another year?
They want those cards to have a limited lifespan, it's part of their intended design.
It matters a great deal if that's the reason you presented for Blizzard not moving Whizzbang. If you want to change your argument now that it's been refuted, that's fine, but at least have the decency to acknowledge you were wrong before shifting those goalposts.
This is proof about how the Wild format isn't a dumpster for all the broken crap. Wins my confidence. Next time they sell a wild pack I'm ready to pony up. LOL not
OMG the tavern brawl was hideous. Last week with the chess bullshit I was seriously annoyed because of the stupid game mechanic of the pawns. This one was just disgusting. It's like, "hmmmm, I guess it's better than Russian Roulette, since nobody dies maybe."
I have the same problem. From 6 almost 5 just before the new expansion now 10.....Fed up
I think we need to get psychotic and superstitious about it, though. That's because after I quit the game and posted here whining about my low rank stasis I went back to the game and climbed to rank 13. I think if you complain here about your disappointment with ranks it helps you climb the ladder.
Recently, in the past couple of months, my new normal has been to make at least rank 5 by the end of the season. Last season I ended really bad and started this one at 14, from where I soon plummeted to 15 no stars, where I've been now since a week ago.
From now on, if I can't climb, I'm whining about it here. It helps. Maybe Blizzard Entertainment has a program that detects things like that in the salt thread and rewards you with better luck so you feel inclined to play some more.
Tournaments so soon after a new expansion are interesting to me. I'll be watching to see which decks stand out, as they will likely make up a large part of the meta in the weeks to come. Good to know what to counter, and how!
Prismatic Lens: Down to 3 Mana. Change text to "Draw 2 cards. Swap their Costs."
I really like this Nerf rather than raising the cost to 5 or 6 like others have suggested. It doesn't make the card completely unplayable, accidentally nerfing every Paladin deck that wants to draw cards.
I feel a change to the mage class, and in general. Evolve effects and conjurers calling effects should only be affected by the actual cost of the minion.
you cheat out a giant turn 4, you get 4cost minions from conjurer. You use evolve or mutate on the 7 cost rush shaman card, you get whatever it cost when played. Same as sea giant.
This makes it harder to cheat out and snowball on minions of this type.
Personally I don't see why these midrange strats get so much hate when aggro and control do equally stupid things in their own way. Aggro is able to cheese out immense amounts of damage early on and control is able to remove a ton of things with a single removal card. Each playstyle needs to be able to do something dumb if the other playstyles are equally overtuned. Also, as should be important to point out, you never can nerf one deck without making another deck a problem. Mage is a hard counter to control warrior. You nerf mage all you end up with is huge amounts of complaints about warrior. Nerfs are a double-edged sword.
As to CC specifically I think that it allowing 'Big' strategies for mage is what makes it playable. I see no world where a CC that summoned only minions you paid for as a card that would ever be competitively played. CC would essentially become a 3 mana "Heal one minion to full health and summon a random low to midrange costed minion." That sounds pretty terrible in mage if you ask me.
T5 isn't going to nerf so many highlighted legendaries, especially from their newest set. Nerfing a bunch of expensive cards does not equal players wanting to spend as much money on said cards.
The paladin quest nerf is also really dumb. It makes the reward go from powerful to very underwhelming. Making copies of only reborn minions is nowhere near a solid win condition.
This combo can be prevented, it doesn't matter if it all happens in one turn. There are cards like Dirty Rat for a reason. You can't counter strategies if you don't intentionally tech against them.
Played against this deck last week in wild as well but the druid double buffed and had 2.5k armor.
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
Took the words right out of my mouth. I hope they don't nuke Dr. Boom, maybe just slightly tweak the rush mechanic and some of the hero power options.
Conjurer's Calling is just a problem. Dropping a Mountain Giant on turn 4-5 then multiplying it with this card is just too frustrating to deal with for non-aggro decks. And it's a twinspell, making it doubly frustrating. Maybe the mana cost will be upped, or the twinspell mechanic removed.
Will they move Whizbang to the Classic set?
As for Zayle, Shadow Cloak, he has a smaller amount of decks that were not provided by Whizbang the Wonderful. As I mentioned once before in this thread, if they move him and want to keep the same number of 23 legendary minions in the Boomsday Project set, they already accomplished this by introducing SN1P-SN4P. Seeing as SN1P is the only random legendary addition to a set (not counting recent Classic set additions to replace HoF cards), it really leads me to believe they put him in the game as a planned replacement come April 2020 when Whiz moves to Classic.
As far as the "it'll hurt their profits" argument, it will ALSO be great for new players if Whiz is made Classic (or maybe even the final Basic reward card for unlocking all cards on all classes?). And I've continually seen veteran players complain on sites like this how Blizzard caters to new Hearthstone players and doesn't care about long time players. So why wouldn't they make a change to always allow new players an easy option to play new Standard constructed decks without having a large collection? And ultimately, bringing in new players and keeping fringe players going by always giving them the Whizbang option should theoretically help get more profits in the long run. Larger player base = larger base of potential spenders.
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
Only 2 cards need a nerf for standard, and that is Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, and Conjurer's Calling
All the other cards you suggest are not a problem at all, in fact in standard, I see no problems with any of the new cards.
Tip the Scales is sucky to play against, but I don't think it will be sticking around. The meta needs time to answer to it.
Emperor Wraps is fine.
Ossirian Tear is fine.
Heart of Vir'naal is fine.
Now if we are talking Wild...
Quartermaster needs to be nerfed to 6 mana so it can't be played in Odd Paladin. That won't be enough to kill off the deck entirely, but it will greatly help reduce the win rate of the king of wild. It has been on the top for too long, and it's time to shake it up.
I'm concerned about Flame Ward in Aluneth Mage, but I'm not ready to call for a nerf. Just concerned that card is removing the main weakness of that deck, which was no board clear against aggro decks. Now that deck has an answer to everything.
And something needs to be changed with the graveyard mechanic. But that is never going to happen as we are just going to be waiting for "more" data forever.
Gathering Highlander Mage Opinions
I was intrigued to scroll through HS Replay and to find that the archetype currently running in Tier 2 as “Big Spell Mage” is 99% made up of Highlander decks, where the “bigness” is simply the payoff for the slow burn of the deck.
I’m currently flirting with a derivative of this archetype, below, that incorporates Raid the Sky Temple, which I’m calling Skylander (eh, get it?!). Despite how down everyone is on Quest Mage, no Highlander deck that I’ve seen has a Turn 1 play, and you drop enough random spells along the way to complete the quest at some point.
The trick simply is to not rush to complete the quest, and to just play as normal. Even if you only get one or two uses out of the hero power, it’s more use than you’ll get out of a Turn 8+ ping. And although it might seem counter-synergistic with King Phaoris, you can always drop Naga Sea Witch to round the lower mana cost spells back up to 5 for beefier bodies on the next turn. Seems like this would be the thread to solicit feedback if anyone has thoughts :)
Wild · Highlander Mage · by MisterKnott · 7 years, 1 month ago
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
Death by shit draws is the worst way to lose in this game. Give my enemy BS topdecks if you want, make me unable to answer every single cancerous 1-drop out there...
but
please
Blizzard,
Never, ever force me to just watch the game playing out like a helpless cuckold by slamming the cheap half of my deck on its bottom. Anything else, literally. I won't mind facing nothing but Odd Paladins and Mill Rogues without enough brain cells to rub together, but make Death By Shit Draws STOP!
Just give me a nice warning at the start like: "Uh oh, looks like your top 7 cards cost 5 or more mana. Would you like to concede now?" At least then I'll get the minimum of agency,
8/14 patch
@sinti This was the gist of what appeared in the patch notes. But I can be confused, sorry
Masters Tour Seoul Survival Guide
The brackets and such can be found at:
From moobot in the playhearthstone twitch channel.
https://bit.ly/2Z1oI9P
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
Exactly
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
lol, you just destroyed all those decks. Why should they be nerfed?
The meta settles and on hsreplay there are almost no decks with a higher winrate than 61-62%. And I think this is where Blizz wants to go.
I think every class has a deck currently that can make it to legend.
The rest is RNG and Rock/Paper/Scissors
Masters Tour Seoul Survival Guide
Masters Tour Seoul Survival Guide
It's now live!
Elise the Enlightened
It's kinda funny--so far, its been the exact opposite.
Not that I'm throwing shade; I probably would have thought the exact same thing pre-release. I mean: who could have foreseen Finley being utilized exclusively for his tribal tag in Tip the Scales decks? Or that highlander mage or hunter decks being consistent enough to support tempo archetypes? It just goes to show you.
Will they move Whizbang to the Classic set?
I won't be surprised if they print another version of Zayle with all the good guy classes as a reward for this expansion's adventure, as opposed to Zayle itself, which contains the classes that make the League of E.V.I.L.
But as for Whizbang, I agree that he should be moved to classic. He is evergreen, and uses deck recipes that exist in-game. I just don't know what's a good move for Blizzard in their perspective.
1280 Armor Druid
If only there was a minion that summoned a minion from your opponents hand. Oh wait there are several. If people don't want to put in tech cards, their choice. Just can't get mad when they get combo'd on.
Will they move Whizbang to the Classic set?
It matters a great deal if that's the reason you presented for Blizzard not moving Whizzbang. If you want to change your argument now that it's been refuted, that's fine, but at least have the decency to acknowledge you were wrong before shifting those goalposts.
1280 Armor Druid
This is proof about how the Wild format isn't a dumpster for all the broken crap. Wins my confidence. Next time they sell a wild pack I'm ready to pony up. LOL not
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
OMG the tavern brawl was hideous. Last week with the chess bullshit I was seriously annoyed because of the stupid game mechanic of the pawns. This one was just disgusting. It's like, "hmmmm, I guess it's better than Russian Roulette, since nobody dies maybe."
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
I think we need to get psychotic and superstitious about it, though. That's because after I quit the game and posted here whining about my low rank stasis I went back to the game and climbed to rank 13. I think if you complain here about your disappointment with ranks it helps you climb the ladder.
Recently, in the past couple of months, my new normal has been to make at least rank 5 by the end of the season. Last season I ended really bad and started this one at 14, from where I soon plummeted to 15 no stars, where I've been now since a week ago.
From now on, if I can't climb, I'm whining about it here. It helps. Maybe Blizzard Entertainment has a program that detects things like that in the salt thread and rewards you with better luck so you feel inclined to play some more.
Get your foil hats on
Masters Tour Seoul Survival Guide
Tournaments so soon after a new expansion are interesting to me. I'll be watching to see which decks stand out, as they will likely make up a large part of the meta in the weeks to come. Good to know what to counter, and how!
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
I really like this Nerf rather than raising the cost to 5 or 6 like others have suggested. It doesn't make the card completely unplayable, accidentally nerfing every Paladin deck that wants to draw cards.
Masters Tour Seoul Survival Guide
Ok so in 2 and half hours time to start grinding packs
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
The fact that dr boom has yet to get makes me think they won’t nerf it
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
Personally I don't see why these midrange strats get so much hate when aggro and control do equally stupid things in their own way. Aggro is able to cheese out immense amounts of damage early on and control is able to remove a ton of things with a single removal card. Each playstyle needs to be able to do something dumb if the other playstyles are equally overtuned. Also, as should be important to point out, you never can nerf one deck without making another deck a problem. Mage is a hard counter to control warrior. You nerf mage all you end up with is huge amounts of complaints about warrior. Nerfs are a double-edged sword.
As to CC specifically I think that it allowing 'Big' strategies for mage is what makes it playable. I see no world where a CC that summoned only minions you paid for as a card that would ever be competitively played. CC would essentially become a 3 mana "Heal one minion to full health and summon a random low to midrange costed minion." That sounds pretty terrible in mage if you ask me.
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
T5 isn't going to nerf so many highlighted legendaries, especially from their newest set. Nerfing a bunch of expensive cards does not equal players wanting to spend as much money on said cards.
The paladin quest nerf is also really dumb. It makes the reward go from powerful to very underwhelming. Making copies of only reborn minions is nowhere near a solid win condition.
1280 Armor Druid
This combo can be prevented, it doesn't matter if it all happens in one turn. There are cards like Dirty Rat for a reason. You can't counter strategies if you don't intentionally tech against them.
Played against this deck last week in wild as well but the druid double buffed and had 2.5k armor.