One thing that stood out immediately was "Call of the Satyr". This card already exists: Mark of the Lotus. Perhaps this card could be altered so it's not a straight reprint? Aside from that and some potential balance issues other people have already brought up, this looks like it could be a pretty fun and interesting set!
I agree, that's why you'd run things that draw cards without triggering a battlecry: Mana Tide Totem, Far Sight, and Acolyte of Pain were all traditionally included in past Shudderwock combo lists for that very reason.
I do like your [card[Doomcaller idea above! Kind of makes me want to try a full on buff Shudder'Thun bomb! Drop the Grumble, just focus on things that will buff Shudder, use Doomcaller or another method to get two C'Thun battlecries off (or more), and then trigger a double battlecry Shudderwock with either an Emperor tick or the Fencing Coach. That way the second round of C'Thun battlecry(s) will be guaranteed to be increased in damage if the first round goes before buffs like Heroic Innkeeper. Now THAT would be an Ultimate Shudderwock!
That's why you don't run Battlecry card draw. Instead use things like Mana Tide Totem, Far Sight, Acolyte of Pain, etc. These three examples were always part of the traditional Shudderwock combo deck seeing as they draw cards without adding card draw to Shudderwock himself. Deathrattle card draw effects could also be included, like Loot Hoarder. Although many past lists also included Prince Keleseth so a card like Loot Hoarder would be out!
I swore I saw regular Hagatha in the list, but I actually would cut BOTH versions anyway as I wouldn't want my hand filling with Horrors instead of Shudders.
Your Doomcaller idea above is a pretty solid one! So is the Heroic Innkeeper since the C'Thun battlecry damage is based on Shudderwock's attack. Buff him up nicely and he can really do some damage, especially if you get C'Thun battlecry in the mix twice. With that idea in mind I almost wonder if a few things could be cut to not worry about bounce back, but instead just getting a double battlecry Shudder off that also has 1-2 C'Thun battlecries in the bank as well as self buffing effects? That to me would be the ultimate Shudderwock! :)
Last reply, I promise! I love Shudderwock decks and I've been meaning to make a new one but didn't get the quest until yesterday. So I was inspired by a few choices in your deck to make mine, which is not Highlander, but still a pretty good one so far (Wild Rank 11, not many games under my belt yet).
Corrupted Shudderwock list (Gave you a shout out and a link to your list in my guide).
I would agree that neither should be sent to HoF, but perhaps it's time to at least change DS like I mentioned in my previous comment to at least limit the OTK potential. This change could potentially open up design space as well, allowing Team 5 to make some other interesting cards for Priest that would allow for new strategies or win conditions.
And speaking of Mind Blast, I was actually upset about that going HoF. I mean... Priest in WoW has a Shadow spec! So why not allow for some sort of Shadow Priest abilities like Mind Blast to exist?! Mind Blast didn't even feel like a huge problem like it used to back when they could Shadow Visions a couple extra copies to their hand.
Another option is of course dropping Emperor Thaurissan once Shudderwock is in hand, which would help in two ways: 1) You can now do double battlecry with Shudder on 10 mana. 2) It helps you in emptying your hand in preparation for Grumble sending six 1 mana Shudders to your hand (potentially).
You could add a Fencing Coach if you have any trouble with the Doppel->Grumble ordering of Shudder's random battlecries. Play the Coach the turn prior to your Shudderwock turn, smash the new hero power and watch the magic happen. The only thing that could be bad is if Grumble hits first during the first round and then in the second round if Hagatha goes off before Grumble. Then you'd lose your Shudderwocks. If you go this route you may need to do it without Hagatha, or maybe add in a "Heal all friendly characters" card as well.
One thing I'm seeing, you lack in card draw and that was always a big issue in Shudderwock decks before. Do you feel like draw has been an issue?
After this weekend's season play, Blizzard have to do something about the inner fire / divine spirit combo. I know it's been around forever but a lot of games were either decided really early on or was just a waiting game on who drew it first.
It did not make the games fun to watch.
Exactly this. It's time to go for those card. Why is cleric even still at 1 mana?
I personally think it's Divine Spirit that's the biggest problem in that combo. Maybe that card should be moved to HoF, or updated to be either "Give a minion 5 health" or "Double a minion's health (up to 5 health)." The second option might actually be better as the spell does the same thing for minions with 5 or less health, but only gives 5 health to minions of 6+ health. That way it can still has a use of making a sticky minion early on, or could be used in a finisher with 2 x DS + IF but not in OTK form.
C'Thun. One fun deck to pull off is what I call my "Nightmare Druid". Because you can play three buffed C'Thun's in one turn with double battlecry on each.
Aviana > Innervate > Kun > Brann > C'Thun > Zola (on C'Thun) > 2x C'Thun (from Zola). With just a 10/10 C'Thun can drop 60 damage on your opponent and their board in a turn.
And as the Eye says "My dreaming ends. Your nightmare begins!"
Won my first game despite getting some HORRIBLE cards for this brawl! Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Hunting Party which effect minions in your hand or deck... which is great for an ALL SPELL BRAWL!
The one that really made me salty, and remember the minion summons before the spell's effect... Darkest Hour!!! A card that in this format is literally "pay 6 mana, clear all your own minions."
But still won because my opponent didn't understand the concept of trading and board control.
1) Team 5 may be trying to act faster to nerf oppressive decks in general. At least in Standard. So comparing this to not nerfing aggro decks quickly in the past is not an apples to apples comparison if they've had an overall change in philosophy of how long they wait (or don't wait) for nerfs.
2) I'm wondering if the fact that the card was recently buffed meant they were keeping a close eye on it and ready to revert back quickly if they thought it was too powerful at 2 mana. Similar line of thinking with Pocket Galaxy nerf.
The only quest deck with a 50+% win rate when played was Making Mummies. At least it was a few days back when this very site did an analysis of how the quest cards were performing. Might have changed some with nerfs but... might not have!
Here's my first shot at trying a "minion" version of strongholds. I honestly have no clue what I'm doing, lol. I think I like the "quest" idea better, but I still can't figure out how to design their ability to be removed without making it some sort of insta-win if your opponent doesn't have those specific cards in their deck. For example, let's say I made one defeatable by playing a card like a dragon or elemental. If they don't have one of those cards, I'm perfectly safe and they don't stand a chance.
Personally I think something like Blackhowl Gunspire or Portable Ice Wall are what you would want for minion based "Stronghold" cards. This type of effect would be better as a temporary dormant token idea like what Demonx had above. Also, this Chapel card's effect would be much better if it were an Evencosted card, please! LOL
I'm with HULKBiceps and I play a lot of fun, wacky C'Thun things in Wild. Currently around 10-9 playing a Reno Galaxy C'Thun deck. It has the current Standard Reno Mage shell updated with a few Wild spells and putting in a small handful of C'Thun buffers and the Eye himself, with the ideal play being Galaxy with C'Thun still in the deck, then later you can play Brann Bronzebeard, C'Thun, and Zola the Gorgon to get two golden C'Thun's in hand. If you draw C'Thun before Galaxy you can also just use Brann for doubling some of your C'Thun buffers' battlecry effects or just try to win with a crazy King Phaoris board, etc, much like the current Standard version of Reno Mage. I think I'm currently 7-6 with it so not great, but a lot of fun!
Anyway, at these ranks I'm seeing a more diverse range of opponents, nothing sticks out as super oppressive in terms of facing a specific deck(s) over and over again. One big thing I've noticed since the expansion released: There has been a huge decline in the Time Warp Mages! This is likely due to the Secret Mage rising in popularity and just winning faster than the slower, but often guaranteed win of Archmage Vargoth, Time Warp, 2x Arcane Giant.
I'm happy about this change, because with the deck I described above I at least have a chance to maybe survive against Mages, gain some semblance of board control, and play Reno Jackson after they've used a large amount of burst. If you can pull that off they often don't have enough steam left to kill you quick enough, where as the Time Warp Mages just stall stall stall until you're helpless to stop their win condition.
Personally I have still used HearthPwn on occasion, but mostly I'm only on OoC for Hearthstone news, forums, and recent user decks. I also get on HS Replay for deck stats, etc. Mostly when I've used HP since the split was a momentary bit of downtime at OoC during card reveals, and if I'm looking for inspiration for a Wild deck. Given how new OoC is they don't have the deck data base that goes back to 2014. But if I need some inspiration I can pull up an old deck similar to what I'm thinking of making, maybe get reminded of some old card I haven't seen in a while. Which is why I loved the recent article about "Forgotten Wilds" on OoC! As well as OoC's attention to Wild and featured Wild Weekend decks.
Truly, OoC is already a better site than HP ever was! Keep it up, guys!
Its sad that a number of fun decks in wild like Big Rogue will probably be more damaged by the collateral damage from the Barnes nerf than Big priest itself. Barnes was an often brutal turn 4 play to be sure, but Vargoth and the resurrection/ graveyard mechanic as a whole are much more problematic, imo. Having said that, I'm glad that Blizzard finally pulled the trigger on the nerf, but worry that Big Priest will continue to plague us more or less indefinitely. Maybe the lack of an early statue or Yshaarj will allow aggro decks to push through that much more easily, who knows?
Agreed. Big Priest doesn't need Barnes anymore at all. Just hard mulligan for Vargoth. Opponent kills it priest just resses it twice. Don't kill it and you risk facing double Shadow Essence
I've actually been thinking for a while now that Vargoth is a much better card in that deck than Barnes. The only upside of Barnes was playing him on turn 3/4 and getting something amazing to bring back over and over again. But once he died he was a terrible rez target himself. But Vargoth is an amazing rez target can still be played 3/4, and is much more impactful when summoned by Shadow Essence as well. The other great benefits of Vargoth outweight the lack of a 1/1 summoned when played.
But do you think we will get more a more detailed background story of the EVIL league?
Not sure. I mean, if it is some scheme to revive Deathwing then someone else is behind it, right? N'Zoth? I believe he was the original source behind the corruption of Deathwing to bring about the Cataclysm. And seeing as he was just released in WoW, perhaps he is influencing the events of Hearthstone as well. He could be using Rafaam for some bigger scheme and steered him towards the others. And if an Old God is involved, it would make sense why a previously minor character without a name (Madam Lazule) got brought into the scheme in the first place.
Ultimately I don't expect the story telling depth of WoW in Hearthstone. So I wouldn't expect to get a better explanation other than Rafaam had a scheme, needed some lovable losers to use in his plans, and he gathered the rest of the EVIL League.
One thing that stood out immediately was "Call of the Satyr". This card already exists: Mark of the Lotus. Perhaps this card could be altered so it's not a straight reprint? Aside from that and some potential balance issues other people have already brought up, this looks like it could be a pretty fun and interesting set!
I agree, that's why you'd run things that draw cards without triggering a battlecry: Mana Tide Totem, Far Sight, and Acolyte of Pain were all traditionally included in past Shudderwock combo lists for that very reason.
I do like your [card[Doomcaller idea above! Kind of makes me want to try a full on buff Shudder'Thun bomb! Drop the Grumble, just focus on things that will buff Shudder, use Doomcaller or another method to get two C'Thun battlecries off (or more), and then trigger a double battlecry Shudderwock with either an Emperor tick or the Fencing Coach. That way the second round of C'Thun battlecry(s) will be guaranteed to be increased in damage if the first round goes before buffs like Heroic Innkeeper. Now THAT would be an Ultimate Shudderwock!
That's why you don't run Battlecry card draw. Instead use things like Mana Tide Totem, Far Sight, Acolyte of Pain, etc. These three examples were always part of the traditional Shudderwock combo deck seeing as they draw cards without adding card draw to Shudderwock himself. Deathrattle card draw effects could also be included, like Loot Hoarder. Although many past lists also included Prince Keleseth so a card like Loot Hoarder would be out!
I swore I saw regular Hagatha in the list, but I actually would cut BOTH versions anyway as I wouldn't want my hand filling with Horrors instead of Shudders.
Your Doomcaller idea above is a pretty solid one! So is the Heroic Innkeeper since the C'Thun battlecry damage is based on Shudderwock's attack. Buff him up nicely and he can really do some damage, especially if you get C'Thun battlecry in the mix twice. With that idea in mind I almost wonder if a few things could be cut to not worry about bounce back, but instead just getting a double battlecry Shudder off that also has 1-2 C'Thun battlecries in the bank as well as self buffing effects? That to me would be the ultimate Shudderwock! :)
Last reply, I promise! I love Shudderwock decks and I've been meaning to make a new one but didn't get the quest until yesterday. So I was inspired by a few choices in your deck to make mine, which is not Highlander, but still a pretty good one so far (Wild Rank 11, not many games under my belt yet).
Corrupted Shudderwock list (Gave you a shout out and a link to your list in my guide).
I would agree that neither should be sent to HoF, but perhaps it's time to at least change DS like I mentioned in my previous comment to at least limit the OTK potential. This change could potentially open up design space as well, allowing Team 5 to make some other interesting cards for Priest that would allow for new strategies or win conditions.
And speaking of Mind Blast, I was actually upset about that going HoF. I mean... Priest in WoW has a Shadow spec! So why not allow for some sort of Shadow Priest abilities like Mind Blast to exist?! Mind Blast didn't even feel like a huge problem like it used to back when they could Shadow Visions a couple extra copies to their hand.
Another option is of course dropping Emperor Thaurissan once Shudderwock is in hand, which would help in two ways: 1) You can now do double battlecry with Shudder on 10 mana. 2) It helps you in emptying your hand in preparation for Grumble sending six 1 mana Shudders to your hand (potentially).
You could add a Fencing Coach if you have any trouble with the Doppel->Grumble ordering of Shudder's random battlecries. Play the Coach the turn prior to your Shudderwock turn, smash the new hero power and watch the magic happen. The only thing that could be bad is if Grumble hits first during the first round and then in the second round if Hagatha goes off before Grumble. Then you'd lose your Shudderwocks. If you go this route you may need to do it without Hagatha, or maybe add in a "Heal all friendly characters" card as well.
One thing I'm seeing, you lack in card draw and that was always a big issue in Shudderwock decks before. Do you feel like draw has been an issue?
I personally think it's Divine Spirit that's the biggest problem in that combo. Maybe that card should be moved to HoF, or updated to be either "Give a minion 5 health" or "Double a minion's health (up to 5 health)." The second option might actually be better as the spell does the same thing for minions with 5 or less health, but only gives 5 health to minions of 6+ health. That way it can still has a use of making a sticky minion early on, or could be used in a finisher with 2 x DS + IF but not in OTK form.
I love anything to do with Hakkar, so may need to give this a go!
C'Thun Shaman is one of my favorite types of C'Thun decks! Which... I need to try again with the new quest. That is when/if I get the new quest...
C'Thun. One fun deck to pull off is what I call my "Nightmare Druid". Because you can play three buffed C'Thun's in one turn with double battlecry on each.
Aviana > Innervate > Kun > Brann > C'Thun > Zola (on C'Thun) > 2x C'Thun (from Zola). With just a 10/10 C'Thun can drop 60 damage on your opponent and their board in a turn.
And as the Eye says "My dreaming ends. Your nightmare begins!"
Won my first game despite getting some HORRIBLE cards for this brawl! Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Hunting Party which effect minions in your hand or deck... which is great for an ALL SPELL BRAWL!
The one that really made me salty, and remember the minion summons before the spell's effect... Darkest Hour!!! A card that in this format is literally "pay 6 mana, clear all your own minions."
But still won because my opponent didn't understand the concept of trading and board control.
1) Team 5 may be trying to act faster to nerf oppressive decks in general. At least in Standard. So comparing this to not nerfing aggro decks quickly in the past is not an apples to apples comparison if they've had an overall change in philosophy of how long they wait (or don't wait) for nerfs.
2) I'm wondering if the fact that the card was recently buffed meant they were keeping a close eye on it and ready to revert back quickly if they thought it was too powerful at 2 mana. Similar line of thinking with Pocket Galaxy nerf.
The only quest deck with a 50+% win rate when played was Making Mummies. At least it was a few days back when this very site did an analysis of how the quest cards were performing. Might have changed some with nerfs but... might not have!
Personally I think something like Blackhowl Gunspire or Portable Ice Wall are what you would want for minion based "Stronghold" cards. This type of effect would be better as a temporary dormant token idea like what Demonx had above. Also, this Chapel card's effect would be much better if it were an Even costed card, please! LOL
I'm with HULKBiceps and I play a lot of fun, wacky C'Thun things in Wild. Currently around 10-9 playing a Reno Galaxy C'Thun deck. It has the current Standard Reno Mage shell updated with a few Wild spells and putting in a small handful of C'Thun buffers and the Eye himself, with the ideal play being Galaxy with C'Thun still in the deck, then later you can play Brann Bronzebeard, C'Thun, and Zola the Gorgon to get two golden C'Thun's in hand. If you draw C'Thun before Galaxy you can also just use Brann for doubling some of your C'Thun buffers' battlecry effects or just try to win with a crazy King Phaoris board, etc, much like the current Standard version of Reno Mage. I think I'm currently 7-6 with it so not great, but a lot of fun!
Anyway, at these ranks I'm seeing a more diverse range of opponents, nothing sticks out as super oppressive in terms of facing a specific deck(s) over and over again. One big thing I've noticed since the expansion released: There has been a huge decline in the Time Warp Mages! This is likely due to the Secret Mage rising in popularity and just winning faster than the slower, but often guaranteed win of Archmage Vargoth, Time Warp, 2x Arcane Giant.
I'm happy about this change, because with the deck I described above I at least have a chance to maybe survive against Mages, gain some semblance of board control, and play Reno Jackson after they've used a large amount of burst. If you can pull that off they often don't have enough steam left to kill you quick enough, where as the Time Warp Mages just stall stall stall until you're helpless to stop their win condition.
Personally I have still used HearthPwn on occasion, but mostly I'm only on OoC for Hearthstone news, forums, and recent user decks. I also get on HS Replay for deck stats, etc. Mostly when I've used HP since the split was a momentary bit of downtime at OoC during card reveals, and if I'm looking for inspiration for a Wild deck. Given how new OoC is they don't have the deck data base that goes back to 2014. But if I need some inspiration I can pull up an old deck similar to what I'm thinking of making, maybe get reminded of some old card I haven't seen in a while. Which is why I loved the recent article about "Forgotten Wilds" on OoC! As well as OoC's attention to Wild and featured Wild Weekend decks.
Truly, OoC is already a better site than HP ever was! Keep it up, guys!
I've actually been thinking for a while now that Vargoth is a much better card in that deck than Barnes. The only upside of Barnes was playing him on turn 3/4 and getting something amazing to bring back over and over again. But once he died he was a terrible rez target himself. But Vargoth is an amazing rez target can still be played 3/4, and is much more impactful when summoned by Shadow Essence as well. The other great benefits of Vargoth outweight the lack of a 1/1 summoned when played.
Is it a surprise that this chicken is so deadly? It has an ax on it's beak!
Not sure. I mean, if it is some scheme to revive Deathwing then someone else is behind it, right? N'Zoth? I believe he was the original source behind the corruption of Deathwing to bring about the Cataclysm. And seeing as he was just released in WoW, perhaps he is influencing the events of Hearthstone as well. He could be using Rafaam for some bigger scheme and steered him towards the others. And if an Old God is involved, it would make sense why a previously minor character without a name (Madam Lazule) got brought into the scheme in the first place.
Ultimately I don't expect the story telling depth of WoW in Hearthstone. So I wouldn't expect to get a better explanation other than Rafaam had a scheme, needed some lovable losers to use in his plans, and he gathered the rest of the EVIL League.