With the brief initial mention from more than a week ago fueling all the anticipation for more Constructed balance changes, Thursday's announcement has finally given us a proper time and date while setting the stage for a very eventful start to this weekend. Soon enough, the ranked ladder might get another notable makeover.
The first round of Standard & Wild adjustments for the latest Hearthstone expansion - Murder at Castle Nathria - was very heavily focused on various class card buffs (22 of them!), and offered only a handful of nerfs (5). A number of those changes did not really have the intended effect, with some even proving to be very controversial (ahem, Edwin, Defias Kingpin). The metagame that followed since August 16 has been with us for more than 3 weeks now, and it certainly wasn't to everybody's liking - to put it mildly.
This time around, the story could go in a different direction. With the full patch notes now available and all further balance changes revealed, the patch itself should follow the same route soon enough:
Quote From DeckTech Patch Notes (most languages) are scheduled for tomorrow 9am Pacific. Patch itself to follow (still aiming for 10am, but can't confirm exact time at this point).
Update: The patch is already available on both desktop and mobile clients!
New Balance Changes for Patch 24.2.2 - More Nerfs and Buffs for Castle Nathria
Here is what we got on the line - 7 card nerfs and 2 fairly unexpected buffs (or nerf reverts, if we wish to be precise), with added early developer insights:
Quote From Blizzard Patch 24.2.2, a hotfix patch scheduled for September 9, includes the following updates and bug fixes.Standard Card Updates
Dev Comment: Our top priority this patch was to make the meta feel more stable and more diverse. For that reason, we focused primarily on making a moderate number of high-confidence changes this patch. We expect there will still be room for adjustment after this patch settles in, but we’d like to take the opportunity to see where these changes land before making further changes.
7 Standard Card Nerfs - No More Guffing Around
Wildheart Guff has been dodging the nerfs for close to a year now, but no longer! And the improved power level of Edwin, Defias Kingpin was about as short-lasting as we thought it might be. Meanwhile, Kael'thas Sinstrider now follows the path of Kael'thas Sunstrider (in a way). And what about that poor Smothering Starfish?
But there is even more to talk about:
Quote From Blizzard The following cards have been adjusted down in power:
- Old: Battlecry and Hero Power granted full mana crystals.
- New: Battlecry and Hero Power grant empty mana crystals.
- Dev Comment: Ramp Druid is one of the most powerful and influential decks in the game this patch. Guff was the clear power outlier for the deck, so a change to Guff was the highest confidence change we could make. We still expect Guff to be a playable card, with an important role in these strategies, but we hope that this change will make it feel like there is more of a cost to ramping than there was previously.
- Old: [Costs 3] 3 Attack, 3 Health
- New: [Costs 4] 4 Attack, 4 Health
- Dev Comment: There’s been a lot of attention on Edwin ever since he was buffed in the last patch—and rightfully so! Since his buff, he has been one of the most highly played and winningest cards in the game, which made him an obvious candidate for a high confidence adjustment to Rogue. When we made the initial buff, Rogue looked like it needed some help, but now that these lists have been more refined, we think Rogue will remain a player in the meta even with Edwin back at 4.
Arcane Burst (Magister Dawngrasp Hero Power)
- Old: Deal 2 damage. Honorable Kill: Gain +2 damage.
- New: Deal 2 damage. Honorable Kill: Gain +1 damage.
- Old: 3 Durability
- New: 2 Durability
- Dev Comment: Along with Druid and Rogue, Mage has been one of the most dominant classes since the last patch. Nightcloak Sanctum has been a clear outlier in the mid-stages of the game, and the scaling threat of Magister Dawngrasp’s hero power has been the dominant in the end game. These two standout cards were the most obvious targets for tuning down the deck’s power level, and should also make the class less frustrating to play against in the mid- and late game.
Defend the Dwarven District (the first stage of the Hunter Questline)
- Old: Deal damage with 2 spells.
- New: Deal damage with 3 spells.
- Dev Comment: Quest Hunter is a frustrating deck to play against and was poised to be a powerful meta contender after the changes to the other classes. This change is both to address the deck’s current state and anticipated relative power level after this patch.
- Old: [Costs 6]
- New: [Costs 8]
- Dev Comment: Kael’thas, Brann, and Denathrius have appeared together as a package in a variety of decks. To address the specific interaction between these three cards, we felt the best solution was to add 2 more cost to the Brann-Kael’thas combo so that they can’t be played with 10 mana. We preferred to change Kael’thas over Brann because Kael’thas is being used primarily for things like this combo while Brann has other interesting use cases, too.
- Old: [Costs 3]
- New: [Costs 4]
- Dev Comment: Smothering Starfish was living up to its name a bit too much. The goal for this card was for it to be a strong tech card, but the cost to include it in your deck was low enough that it was acting more like a staple than a tech card. While responding to specific meta forces, Starfish was also unintentionally snuffing out a variety of underrepresented decks. We think this adjustment will still allow Starfish to be used as a powerful tech option, but will make it less generically ubiquitous.
The above cards will be eligible for a full dust refund for two weeks following Patch 24.2.2.
2 Standard Card Buffs - Back to School
Two popular cards that have been previously nerfed now return to their old forms - or in the case of School Teacher, not quite. The Health value goes back up to 4, but the lowered Attack remains (it used to be 5 when originally released as a free Epic card on Voyage to the Sunken City's Rewards Track).
Quote From Blizzard The following cards have been adjusted up in power:
- Old: 4 Attack, 3 Health
- New: 4 Attack, 4 Health
- Dev Comment: When we initially changed School Teacher, it was the most played card in the game. We’re partially reverting the balance change in order to make the card feel a bit better to include in decks, while still acknowledging that its power level at launch was a bit higher than we would have liked it to be.
- Old: 2 Attack, 1 Health
- New: 2 Attack, 2 Health
- Dev Comment: When we buff cards in underperforming classes, we rarely do it with the goal of immediately shooting the class to a 50% plus winrate. Our goal is to make the game more fun, something we can accomplish by bringing the class up to a level where players feel like there is something worth exploring. With the focus on high confidence changes in this patch, the change we were most confident we could give Paladin was something we’ve seen before—a reversion to a previous balance change.
How many of these have you seen coming, and even more importantly, which ones do you happen to like or dislike the most? Are you convinced that we might be already headed for a better/healthier metagame, or it's wait and see how everything is going to work out in practice?
![All The Great Dark Beyond Card Reveals for October 23 - Day 13 [Finished]](the-great-dark-beyond-day-13.webp)
Comments
So the Kael'thas Sinstrider nerf actually makes a lot of sense and one we should've seen coming considering the only combo he was used for. I have a feel seeing this nerf to Kael'thas also indirectly nerfs Theotar, the Mad Duke coz less classes will be running Denathrius now. Yes, Theotar can disrupt other combos but he will make less of an impact now coz lets be honest, Denathrius was the only card really worth taking with Theotar.
So... No Denathrius nerf... Ok! :'(
Pretty sure some of these nerfs are straight from Vicious Syndicate's suggestions (Guff, Dawngrasp, Hunter Quest) except that Theotar is missing.
To be honest, all of these have been pretty much on most everyone's list for a good while. Although ZachO does indeed have a good track record there.
VS does use actual data to form conclusions and since hsreplay havent exactly made a podcast of their own, I suppose it makes team5's work easier to just implement some of their suggestions. Though not all, since sinstrider and starfish came completely out of the blue. Starfish nerf though I think first came from kibler, but it is kinda stupid to have a mass silence that cost less than an individual silence effect. With decent stats too I'd add.
They did made an interesting suggestions concerning denathrius as well, but for obvious reasons it wasn't implemented.
Alright! A one spell nerf to Quest Hunter! I’ll take what I can get, but I still long for the day this card just gets nuked into orbit by increasing every stage by two-three.
Every other nerf is just… eh. They honestly do absolutely nothing except make aggro that little bit stronger. Matchups are still as unwinnable as before, they just get a very, very slight tweak to their percentages while still feeling bad for one side to play. Like what is Mage going to do against Druid now that 3 of its best cards got nerfed. That’s right, they will still get rolled regardless
Lord almighty, Im underwhelmed to be honest, but if team5 have actually done playtesting on this one I suppose I'd have to trust that they know what the hell they're doing.
All the changes except for starfish is pretty much expected, Edwin making history as well, so here's my comments on the nerfs;
- Wildheart Guff got nerfed, but a mere slap, not a nuke. The card is still playable because gaining one mana crystal + draw a card for 5 is still good no matter how you look at it. At least now that hp wild growth is no longer 1 mana but 2, I'd expect druid to ramp much slower, slow enough that they dont just steamroll the late game. However, with the sinstrider nerf the class is still the only one left that can actually consistently brann + denathrius so I dont expect ramp druid to change any of its cards.
Seriously, I've pretty much lost hope for a more stable druid that doesn't just steamroll games or die pathetically in the early game. A toast to the next rotation where team5 will unbuff Nourish back to 6 and bring back Overgrowth because they cant design druid.
- Magister Dawngrasp got nerfed but no touches to wildfire or mordresh so spooky mage remains the go to. Not to mention that they can still freeze your board for a minimum of 4 consecutive turns, stall with Solid Alibi, and make life miserable but with its late game seriously curtailed I expect XL mage to be completely gone.
- Quest hunter still good, because the wildseed package is still here, but giving back dust means we'll likely see less of it, probably the plan all along. XL beast hunter to come back probably, even more nastier than before since rogue has gotten itself nerfed.
- Nothing done to curtail rogue's highroll bs, so mine/shark rogue will make a comeback. Yes, I know its win rate would not be good, but this is the very pinnacle of poor design in my opinion, because the deck can genuinely win on turn 5 if it draws the nuts, and while that remains very unlikely I dont find playing non-games fun even in the slightest.
Its power cards left intact also means its always 1 draw option away from breaking everything...again. Looking forward to those double 10/10s by turn 4 memes on reddit.
And now to address the elephant in the room, will all this make the bad classes playable?
- For warrior, the nerf to starfish alone guarantees it. I expect to see plenty of warriors in the coming days because enrage warrior has already proven to be quite good outside of the former top 3. Unfortunately having no card draw means it'll likely still be a highroll to heaven but less bad now. The only interesting bit here to me is whether control/combo warrior can comeback with a less oppressive meta now that everyone's endgame in denathrius is no longer possible save for two classes.
- Paladin will remain shit outside of mech. And looking at the dev comments, I think that's intentional because paladin got screwed hard this expansion.
"Our goal is to make the game more fun, something we can accomplish by bringing the class up to a level where players feel like there is something worth exploring" - Or in other words, not bothered that paladin is shit, just want it to be fun shit.
So will we see anything outside of mech pally? Unlikely because theotar is unnerfed meaning control pally is out of the question and mage can still freeze their board 4 times in a row. Maybe someone would create a dude pally that's tier 3 and that's about it in my opinion.
- Dhunter is likely going to make a huge splash because it's no longer in danger of getting destroyed on 10 by denatrius, and its one of two classes that can naturally do the brann + denatrius combo (albeit with highroll) in the game without coin. Still going to get raped by implock or aggro druid but with the main decks being nerfed I dont expect the current set of aggro decks to proliferate.
I still think the current standard format is too much about highrolling rather than tempo, but a step is a step. Here's hoping for less rogues/druids/mages and more actual games where I get to actually play the game.
*wheeze* Blizzard doing playtesting? But that takes money and coming off their high horse to admit some cards were a mistake!
Why the hell is Dawgrasp buffed AGAIN? It's broken and obnoxious to play against.
Uhh, are you sure you read the patch notes correctly?
I'm shocked they didnt touch Theotar., especially when you read the reasons they nerfed Starfish 100% applies to Theotar aswell.
Also kinda sad that a new card (Kael’thas) has died for Brann's sins. Shoulda just kicked the latter out of standard imo.
Starfish countered some decks that didn't see much play, in particular Paladin, as it neutralizes buffs and disables the inherited deathrattle from Stewart the Steward.
Theotar is mostly a counter to Denathrius, which did see a lot of play. With the Kael'thas nerf, fewer decks will be able to infuse Denathrius to lethal levels, so there will be less of a need to play Theotar. My guess is that they expect his play rate to go down in the new meta and therefore decided not to nerf.
My first 3 games after the patch I had my win con Theotar'd lol.. It's actually so demoralizing to the point where I loath logging in. I'm also just considering playing bad decks so when they Theotar there's nothing good for them to steal...
It doesn't matter how many cards I have in hand, 4, 7, 10... they always hit my Sire or most important card.
Theotar will only be dropped from decks after Sire gets dropped from other decks; I don't know if that will happen but if it does, it will take some time.
For my Token Demon Hunter deck, I dropped Sire because the games often ended before turn 10 and against decks where the games would last 10 turns, half the time he'd be stolen before I could play him. So I'm not defending Theotar, I'm just trying to understand Blizzard's thoughts behind not nerfing him.
Theotar is fine.
The first half of the explanation for Starfish applies to Theotar but the second half doesn't. I have been playing enrage warrior lately and Starfish ruins my board but Theotar is rarely a big problem. I am sure Starfish is also a problem for handbuff paladin, and probably mech paladin too. Some of the weaker classes were being hard hit by Starfish's ubiquity.
I guess they thought "Enough dust refunds for now" lol
Guff:
What is the point to have a 2 mana hero power that grants one mana this turn only? What I miss?
It gives one mana permanently but it is usable next turn since you get it empty
I am so tired of Theotar being the best card in my deck in every non-aggro deck I play.
I was going to make this into a joke or funny reference, but I don't even have it in me.
It's just exhausting.
Edit: came back to note that everything said about Starfish applies x10 to Theotar. I know that nerfing Theotar probably requires a subsequent Denathrias nerf, but I believe that nearly everyone would be fine with that, too.