Hearthstone realm banner
Hearthstone realm avatar Hearthstone realm home

Hearthstone

142 Characters Joined
Create Thread
Hearthstone | Posted by | 5 years, 7 months ago
Card Reveal

Nerf Predictions for Scholomance Academy

For most of us, we have opened our pack and started playing some of the pre-fab decks and experimenting with the new cards.  As always, the new mechanics are running rampant and "working" really well and showing some awesome power.  As with every expansion, we can anticipate nerfs coming, Ashes of Outland came on a bit quicker than anticipated though. 

With that in mind, I can see the potential nerfs because people will be barking about it pretty loud:

4) Soul Fragment - The reason I think people will complain about this is that it is an automatic "cast" that gives the Warlock and Demon Hunter health and another card.  For Suicide Warlock, this is allowing them to actually use some bigger minions like Pit Lord that normally wouldn't see play and gives Demon Hunter some health back after attacking everything under the sun.  I would predict that there will be a nerf to either the number of Soul Fragments that get added per card, or it will change to a (1) mana cost card.  Either way it would really hinder the mechanic of the cards.

3) Glide - Manipulating the cards in your hand to take advantage of Outcast is something that Demon Hunter can do pretty well.  The fact that this card ALSO manipulates your opponent's hand will have people barking about how unfair it is that you build a control deck only to have an aggro deck run this card to refill their hand and mess with yours. My prediction would be that they either remove the Outcast aspect or increase the mana to (5)

2) Lightning Bloom - The fact that you can bust this out and potentially get Kael'thas Sunstrider out WAY faster and start going off is going to have people up in arms.  Even though that would require the "God hand", it was the same situation with Aviana druid decks.  It requires a lot of set up, but once you had it, you went off. I'm thinking that they will nerf this to cost (1).

1) Secret Passage - Now for the crown jewel of the new Rogue arsenal... This card is so impressively abusive in both Standard and Wild formats.  I have seen players drop this on turn 3, fire off 4 of the cards they drew, eliminate my side of the board beef up their newly drawn weapon, and come back with their original hand... and then do it again a couple of turns later.  Honestly, it is such a great card and super fun to use, how could it NOT get targeted by nerfs.  I imagine that they will need to balance out this card, since it can be activated with The Coin and you get 2 cards played which will help trigger any combo cards as well, to update it's mana cost to (2).  Doing this will make it less likely to abuse the crap out of it right out the gate, but still show a lot of value. 

What are everyone else's thoughts on these as well as other cards you can see people being irritated about enough to have Blizzard kill the cards?

55 Share

// join_the_conversation

Sign in to share your thoughts, vote on comments, and connect with the community.

Sign in Create account

Comments

Sort by:
Oldest Newest Top

  • For most of us, we have opened our pack and started playing some of the pre-fab decks and experimenting with the new cards.  As always, the new mechanics are running rampant and "working" really well and showing some awesome power.  As with every expansion, we can anticipate nerfs coming, Ashes of Outland came on a bit quicker than anticipated though. 

    With that in mind, I can see the potential nerfs because people will be barking about it pretty loud:

    4) Soul Fragment - The reason I think people will complain about this is that it is an automatic "cast" that gives the Warlock and Demon Hunter health and another card.  For Suicide Warlock, this is allowing them to actually use some bigger minions like Pit Lord that normally wouldn't see play and gives Demon Hunter some health back after attacking everything under the sun.  I would predict that there will be a nerf to either the number of Soul Fragments that get added per card, or it will change to a (1) mana cost card.  Either way it would really hinder the mechanic of the cards.

    3) Glide - Manipulating the cards in your hand to take advantage of Outcast is something that Demon Hunter can do pretty well.  The fact that this card ALSO manipulates your opponent's hand will have people barking about how unfair it is that you build a control deck only to have an aggro deck run this card to refill their hand and mess with yours. My prediction would be that they either remove the Outcast aspect or increase the mana to (5)

    2) Lightning Bloom - The fact that you can bust this out and potentially get Kael'thas Sunstrider out WAY faster and start going off is going to have people up in arms.  Even though that would require the "God hand", it was the same situation with Aviana druid decks.  It requires a lot of set up, but once you had it, you went off. I'm thinking that they will nerf this to cost (1).

    1) Secret Passage - Now for the crown jewel of the new Rogue arsenal... This card is so impressively abusive in both Standard and Wild formats.  I have seen players drop this on turn 3, fire off 4 of the cards they drew, eliminate my side of the board beef up their newly drawn weapon, and come back with their original hand... and then do it again a couple of turns later.  Honestly, it is such a great card and super fun to use, how could it NOT get targeted by nerfs.  I imagine that they will need to balance out this card, since it can be activated with The Coin and you get 2 cards played which will help trigger any combo cards as well, to update it's mana cost to (2).  Doing this will make it less likely to abuse the crap out of it right out the gate, but still show a lot of value. 

    What are everyone else's thoughts on these as well as other cards you can see people being irritated about enough to have Blizzard kill the cards?

    Friendly

  • Soul Fragment: No, not at all! I think it's balanced the way it is, 2 health to face is an incredibly meager effect (Regenerate saw no play outside combo), the mechanic itself is staggered, inconsistent and neither Warlock nor DH variant seems overpowered. And I doubt any serious decks would run Pit Lord because of these small heals, against Aggro it's too dangerous and not worth it.

    Glide: It sure is annoying, but we'll have to see how DH fares and if they even run it (4 mana is a lot).

    Lightning Bloom: Yes, a nerf for sure, but not this card! Both Token and Kael'thas Druid seem OP at the moment, swingy and tilting. Although nerfing THIS card is impossible without either adressing real issues (adding more overload) or making it a worse Innervate (your suggestion). I think they'll nerf Gibberling for Token and either Kael'thas Sunstrider or Survival of the Fittest.

    Secret Passage: No doubt, broken effect.

    Also, I'd add High Abbess Alura, cost to (5), for too much mana cheating.

  • I am speaking from a Wild pov, but I guess what is not broken here is fine in Standard too.

    Secret Passage is an ok card. It looks busted but it isn't. Because you need a pretty low curve to abuse a 5-card window in 1-turn. Low curve means hyper-Aggro or Kingsbane. Both of these can be contained pretty efficiently, with some techs in case of Weapons. Actually Aggro can be contained both by Control and refined Tempo decks. Because low curve in Rogue is badly statted minions (unlike Warlock, Shaman, DH, and other classes with good early bodies). Compare with The Soularium, which became a serious card only when further synergy was provided (bare draw was not enough). Remember that hyper-Aggro looks always busted on new release.

    For similar reasons, I think Glide can be saved, BUT only as long as other DH cards are nerfed (see below). Btw nerfing glide to (5) might be the death of Wild at the hands of Odd DH (which is already solid strong with just minimal card draw). If it needs a nerf, it must be to (6) (and it would be fine, because we don't need these kind of cards in the game, if it is made unplayable, it's just a good thing.

    Now, as much as I don't like the existence of Lightning Bloom, I am baffled at the idea of nerfing it, without making it a worse version of Innervate for Druid. Probably nobody would complain, but it'd be silly. I'd take that, if that's gonna be the case. I'm all in against Combo-OTK happening too soon.

    Now, for my nerf candidates:

    1. Trueaim Crescent because it generates extra free attacks (as if minions were using Warglaives of Azzinoth) other than a ridiculously efficient comeback opportunity against other Aggro/Tempo. The card needs to cost (2). Nerfing durability stats would be of no help.
    2. Ace Hunter Kreen similar as above. Actually their synergy is monstruous. He needs to cost (4). Nerfing body stats would be of no help.
    3. Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).
    4. Sorcerer's Apprentice because the card is far above any standards of efficiency. It should include a "but not below (1)" clause, but since I doubt it's going to happen, I'd be happy enough with just a nerf to (3), to delay bonkers swing turns with Small Spells (I hope this is going to become apparent in Standard to, so as to enforce the need for a nerf).
    5. Lightning Bloom no idea how to nerf it (see above) but yes please nerf.

    That's my list for now.

    • Quote From RavenSunHS
      1. Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).

      I just wanted to echo how bad this feels to play against...and the emoting that comes after makes it all the saltier, haha 

      But beyond the gut punch, I just don't believe that a single card should be able to completely disrupt an entire archetype (Combo/OTK), especially when that archetype is a counter to what the class typically likes to do (play Control).  I'm not against disruption cards in general, but this one seems too strong/guaranteed.  

      Thinking of nerfs, I agree that an increase in cost is most likely, but personally I'd like something different.  I feel that there needs to be more of a way to play around this card as an opponent.  So maybe the nerf could be that you only swap 4 or 5 cards from hand, randomly chosen, along with swapping decks.  This way Combo decks could at least add some RNG into the equation by keeping their hand full, but it would come at a cost that would benefit Priests (in terms of losing tempo and/or having to add more card draw to the deck).  Alternatively, you could add restrictions on the other end such as swapping only the number of cards that the Priest has in hand.  

      • Quote From RangDipkin
        Quote From RavenSunHS
        1. Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).

        I just wanted to echo how bad this feels to play against...and the emoting that comes after makes it all the saltier, haha 

        But beyond the gut punch, I just don't believe that a single card should be able to completely disrupt an entire archetype (Combo/OTK), especially when that archetype is a counter to what the class typically likes to do (play Control).  I'm not against disruption cards in general, but this one seems too strong/guaranteed.  

        Thinking of nerfs, I agree that an increase in cost is most likely, but personally I'd like something different.  I feel that there needs to be more of a way to play around this card as an opponent.  So maybe the nerf could be that you only swap 4 or 5 cards from hand, randomly chosen, along with swapping decks.  This way Combo decks could at least add some RNG into the equation by keeping their hand full, but it would come at a cost that would benefit Priests (in terms of losing tempo and/or having to add more card draw to the deck).  Alternatively, you could add restrictions on the other end such as swapping only the number of cards that the Priest has in hand.  

        The problem is that cards like this are necessary unless we want T5 to just lay the nerf/ban hammer hard on combo/otk decks. Even if a combo isn't T0 or even T1 there usually ends up being a lot of uproar that eventually rises from the community. If T5 hasn't already produced a semi-consistent counter card to fight against it then T5 usually will cave to the vocal minority and severely weaken, or even kill, the combo (e.g. Grim Patron, Raging Worgen, Star Aligner, etc). At least with allowing these cards to exist it means T5 is less likely to kill modern combo decks. You have to carefully pick your poison if you want to be able to play the decks you enjoy (this is coming from a heavy wild combo/otk main btw).

        Also, in wild otks are a bit ridiculous with 2 decks able to consistently kill you on turns 8 or 9 if you're a control main. While I always stand by the holy trinity of rock-paper-scissors I don't feel us otk players should consistently be able to win against control before turn 10. OTKs aren't meant to function that way. So in wild Illucia actually makes it possible to not insta concede as control if you go against Quest Mage or Mech'athun Lock.  

        • Quote From LyraSilvertongue
          Quote From RangDipkin
          Quote From RavenSunHS
          1. Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).

          I just wanted to echo how bad this feels to play against...and the emoting that comes after makes it all the saltier, haha 

          But beyond the gut punch, I just don't believe that a single card should be able to completely disrupt an entire archetype (Combo/OTK), especially when that archetype is a counter to what the class typically likes to do (play Control).  I'm not against disruption cards in general, but this one seems too strong/guaranteed.  

          Thinking of nerfs, I agree that an increase in cost is most likely, but personally I'd like something different.  I feel that there needs to be more of a way to play around this card as an opponent.  So maybe the nerf could be that you only swap 4 or 5 cards from hand, randomly chosen, along with swapping decks.  This way Combo decks could at least add some RNG into the equation by keeping their hand full, but it would come at a cost that would benefit Priests (in terms of losing tempo and/or having to add more card draw to the deck).  Alternatively, you could add restrictions on the other end such as swapping only the number of cards that the Priest has in hand.  

          The problem is that cards like this are necessary unless we want T5 to just lay the nerf/ban hammer hard on combo/otk decks. Even if a combo isn't T0 or even T1 there usually ends up being a lot of uproar that eventually rises from the community. If T5 hasn't already produced a semi-consistent counter card to fight against it then T5 usually will cave to the vocal minority and severely weaken, or even kill, the combo (e.g. Grim Patron, Raging Worgen, Star Aligner, etc). At least with allowing these cards to exist it means T5 is less likely to kill modern combo decks. You have to carefully pick your poison if you want to be able to play the decks you enjoy (this is coming from a heavy wild combo/otk main btw).

          Also, in wild otks are a bit ridiculous with 2 decks able to consistently kill you on turns 8 or 9 if you're a control main. While I always stand by the holy trinity of rock-paper-scissors I don't feel us otk players should consistently be able to win against control before turn 10. OTKs aren't meant to function that way. So in wild Illucia actually makes it possible to not insta concede as control if you go against Quest Mage or Mech'athun Lock.  

          Problem is Mindrender Illucia does much more than giving Control a tip against Combo, as you can steal finishers or key cards from ANY deck you find.

          Also, at the moment Illucia is not just giving a chance, she's granting you the power to tear apart any deck based on some key cards, given the right moment to play her.

          Mechathunlock almost out of cards > Mindrender Illucia > game over. That's more than just a chance at it.

          You could even counter QMage, either stealing their reward, or, in case they are holding the completion, stealing their spell turn right before they are ready to resolve.

          Same goes against Druid (steal spells) or any other deck with key cards in hand. Including Aggro, just to say. That's Dirty Rat on steroids.

          All of a sudden a Control deck has virtually no vulnerability in the metagame. 

          If OTK are ridiculous because they can kick in too soon (ie QMage or Druid), then they do deserve a nerf, not a card that can counter anything consistently enough.

           

          • Quote From RavenSunHS
            Show Spoiler
            Quote From LyraSilvertongue
            Quote From RangDipkin
            Quote From RavenSunHS
            1. Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).

            I just wanted to echo how bad this feels to play against…and the emoting that comes after makes it all the saltier, haha 

            But beyond the gut punch, I just don't believe that a single card should be able to completely disrupt an entire archetype (Combo/OTK), especially when that archetype is a counter to what the class typically likes to do (play Control).  I'm not against disruption cards in general, but this one seems too strong/guaranteed.  

            Thinking of nerfs, I agree that an increase in cost is most likely, but personally I'd like something different.  I feel that there needs to be more of a way to play around this card as an opponent.  So maybe the nerf could be that you only swap 4 or 5 cards from hand, randomly chosen, along with swapping decks.  This way Combo decks could at least add some RNG into the equation by keeping their hand full, but it would come at a cost that would benefit Priests (in terms of losing tempo and/or having to add more card draw to the deck).  Alternatively, you could add restrictions on the other end such as swapping only the number of cards that the Priest has in hand.  

            The problem is that cards like this are necessary unless we want T5 to just lay the nerf/ban hammer hard on combo/otk decks. Even if a combo isn't T0 or even T1 there usually ends up being a lot of uproar that eventually rises from the community. If T5 hasn't already produced a semi-consistent counter card to fight against it then T5 usually will cave to the vocal minority and severely weaken, or even kill, the combo (e.g. Grim Patron, Raging Worgen, Star Aligner, etc). At least with allowing these cards to exist it means T5 is less likely to kill modern combo decks. You have to carefully pick your poison if you want to be able to play the decks you enjoy (this is coming from a heavy wild combo/otk main btw).

            Also, in wild otks are a bit ridiculous with 2 decks able to consistently kill you on turns 8 or 9 if you're a control main. While I always stand by the holy trinity of rock-paper-scissors I don't feel us otk players should consistently be able to win against control before turn 10. OTKs aren't meant to function that way. So in wild Illucia actually makes it possible to not insta concede as control if you go against Quest Mage or Mech'athun Lock.  

             

            Problem is Mindrender Illucia does much more than giving Control a tip against Combo, as you can steal finishers or key cards from ANY deck you find.

            Also, at the moment Illucia is not just giving a chance, she's granting you the power to tear apart any deck based on some key cards, given the right moment to play her.

            Mechathunlock almost out of cards > Mindrender Illucia > game over. That's more than just a chance at it.

            You could even counter QMage, either stealing their reward, or, in case they are holding the completion, stealing their spell turn right before they are ready to resolve.

            Same goes against Druid (steal spells) or any other deck with key cards in hand. Including Aggro, just to say. That's Dirty Rat on steroids.

            All of a sudden a Control deck has virtually no vulnerability in the metagame. 

            If OTK are ridiculous because they can kick in too soon (ie QMage or Druid), then they do deserve a nerf, not a card that can counter anything consistently enough.

             

            I get what you're saying. The issue though is how counter cards are designed in the first place. Hearthstone in general is very bad about creating counter tech cards because in probably over 80% of cards the tech is a coin flip that just wins a game when you play it if you win the coin flip of drawing it. For example, Geist just wins the game against Jade Druid and a handful of OTK decks if the opponent wins the coin flip of drawing it. Dirty Rat (often claimed as a well designed tech by some) is actually just at terrible coin flip 'I-win button'. You either hit 1-2 minions (if comboed with Brann) and you win, or you don't and you lose. Sure, hand reading and timing created a type of skill ceiling for the tech card where more experienced players had higher frequencies of using it to win against OTK, but at the end of the day it still was a polarizing tech where you win with result A and lose with result B. Other techs, not against OTK, could include the anti-murloc/pirate crabs. You drew them early against a murloc or pirate deck and significantly skyrocketed whether you won, or didn't draw them and your chance of winning was significantly plummeted. I do agree that Illucia is also one of these types of coin flip/polarizing 'I-win button' cards.

            The problem lies with T5 not creating what I would call 'smart' tech cards, counters that don't instantly win or lose you the game based on a coin flip or good hit and instead create a temporary disruption or extra time that could influence a win/loss for either play across multiple turns. A great example of a smart tech card is Mojomaster Zihi. Zihi, when played against something like Mecha'Thun Lock, is not an instant win for the opponent while also still allowing the warlock a chance to fight for the win, assuming they didn't expend removal or healing that they may have otherwise been able to save in their hand until they got back up to 10 mana. Glide or the new DH legendary are also smart tech cards. They do not destroy anything in the hand, but require the opponent to delay combo setup and to draw the card(s) again. Sadly though T5 mainly prints cards that are niche specific against one or two decks and that essentially make a win or loss for or against the combo player based on the result of a random outcome (like Rat or drawing Mindrender Illucia vs not drawing her). 

            Although, like I said in my previous post, if strong tech cards against combo don't exist in a meta then T5 is very likely to just kill the deck, which I find is even worse than having an OP tech card against my favorite combo/OTK deck. While I don't like wins & loses turned into a coin toss of polarizing tech cards I'd rather at least be able to play my combo/OTK deck without it getting the Grim Patron/Raging Worgen/Star Aligner treatment.

            • Quote From LyraSilvertongue
              Quote From RavenSunHS
              Show Spoiler
              Quote From LyraSilvertongue
              Quote From RangDipkin
              Quote From RavenSunHS
              1. Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).

              I just wanted to echo how bad this feels to play against…and the emoting that comes after makes it all the saltier, haha 

              But beyond the gut punch, I just don't believe that a single card should be able to completely disrupt an entire archetype (Combo/OTK), especially when that archetype is a counter to what the class typically likes to do (play Control).  I'm not against disruption cards in general, but this one seems too strong/guaranteed.  

              Thinking of nerfs, I agree that an increase in cost is most likely, but personally I'd like something different.  I feel that there needs to be more of a way to play around this card as an opponent.  So maybe the nerf could be that you only swap 4 or 5 cards from hand, randomly chosen, along with swapping decks.  This way Combo decks could at least add some RNG into the equation by keeping their hand full, but it would come at a cost that would benefit Priests (in terms of losing tempo and/or having to add more card draw to the deck).  Alternatively, you could add restrictions on the other end such as swapping only the number of cards that the Priest has in hand.  

              The problem is that cards like this are necessary unless we want T5 to just lay the nerf/ban hammer hard on combo/otk decks. Even if a combo isn't T0 or even T1 there usually ends up being a lot of uproar that eventually rises from the community. If T5 hasn't already produced a semi-consistent counter card to fight against it then T5 usually will cave to the vocal minority and severely weaken, or even kill, the combo (e.g. Grim Patron, Raging Worgen, Star Aligner, etc). At least with allowing these cards to exist it means T5 is less likely to kill modern combo decks. You have to carefully pick your poison if you want to be able to play the decks you enjoy (this is coming from a heavy wild combo/otk main btw).

              Also, in wild otks are a bit ridiculous with 2 decks able to consistently kill you on turns 8 or 9 if you're a control main. While I always stand by the holy trinity of rock-paper-scissors I don't feel us otk players should consistently be able to win against control before turn 10. OTKs aren't meant to function that way. So in wild Illucia actually makes it possible to not insta concede as control if you go against Quest Mage or Mech'athun Lock.  

               

              Problem is Mindrender Illucia does much more than giving Control a tip against Combo, as you can steal finishers or key cards from ANY deck you find.

              Also, at the moment Illucia is not just giving a chance, she's granting you the power to tear apart any deck based on some key cards, given the right moment to play her.

              Mechathunlock almost out of cards > Mindrender Illucia > game over. That's more than just a chance at it.

              You could even counter QMage, either stealing their reward, or, in case they are holding the completion, stealing their spell turn right before they are ready to resolve.

              Same goes against Druid (steal spells) or any other deck with key cards in hand. Including Aggro, just to say. That's Dirty Rat on steroids.

              All of a sudden a Control deck has virtually no vulnerability in the metagame. 

              If OTK are ridiculous because they can kick in too soon (ie QMage or Druid), then they do deserve a nerf, not a card that can counter anything consistently enough.

              I get what you're saying. The issue though is how counter cards are designed in the first place. Hearthstone in general is very bad about creating counter tech cards because in probably over 80% of cards the tech is a coin flip that just wins a game when you play it if you win the coin flip of drawing it. For example, Geist just wins the game against Jade Druid and a handful of OTK decks if the opponent wins the coin flip of drawing it. Dirty Rat (often claimed as a well designed tech by some) is actually just at terrible coin flip 'I-win button'. You either hit 1-2 minions (if comboed with Brann) and you win, or you don't and you lose. Sure, hand reading and timing created a type of skill ceiling for the tech card where more experienced players had higher frequencies of using it to win against OTK, but at the end of the day it still was a polarizing tech where you win with result A and lose with result B. Other techs, not against OTK, could include the anti-murloc/pirate crabs. You drew them early against a murloc or pirate deck and significantly skyrocketed whether you won, or didn't draw them and your chance of winning was significantly plummeted. I do agree that Illucia is also one of these types of coin flip/polarizing 'I-win button' cards.

              The problem lies with T5 not creating what I would call 'smart' tech cards, counters that don't instantly win or lose you the game based on a coin flip or good hit and instead create a temporary disruption or extra time that could influence a win/loss for either play across multiple turns. A great example of a smart tech card is Mojomaster Zihi. Zihi, when played against something like Mecha'Thun Lock, is not an instant win for the opponent while also still allowing the warlock a chance to fight for the win, assuming they didn't expend removal or healing that they may have otherwise been able to save in their hand until they got back up to 10 mana. Glide or the new DH legendary are also smart tech cards. They do not destroy anything in the hand, but require the opponent to delay combo setup and to draw the card(s) again. Sadly though T5 mainly prints cards that are niche specific against one or two decks and that essentially make a win or loss for or against the combo player based on the result of a random outcome (like Rat or drawing Mindrender Illucia vs not drawing her). 

              Although, like I said in my previous post, if strong tech cards against combo don't exist in a meta then T5 is very likely to just kill the deck, which I find is even worse than having an OP tech card against my favorite combo/OTK deck. While I don't like wins & loses turned into a coin toss of polarizing tech cards I'd rather at least be able to play my combo/OTK deck without it getting the Grim Patron/Raging Worgen/Star Aligner treatment.

              Hi Lyra, sorry for the long delay as I'm not used to getting responses ;P and haven't been on OOC as much the past couple months since getting burnt out on HS (and Destiny 2).  But I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write such thoughtful responses while also engaging with RavenSun.

              When it comes to general philosophies, I think we're on the same page in terms of the need for good combo disruption tools and a preference for the sorts of "smart" tech cards that you outlined (I really liked this distinction!).  I just think that, in the specific case of Mindrender Illucia, the card either needs to be nerfed or converted into a "smart" option that doesn't win or lose the game if drawn/not drawn.  And again, my claim isn't coming from a place of "Illucia is too meta-defining!" but rather that, for me personally, "Illucia is too feelsbadman" for an entire archetype that counters Control Priest.  

              We may still disagree, but my best guess is that that's due to:  1) Me coming from the perspective of Standard as opposed to WIld; and/or 2) The fact that I don't play T1 OTK decks so I'm more in favor of both the OP OTK decks getting weakened and the OP counter cards getting weakened (as RavenSun preferred).

              Regarding #1 - I hadn't considered your arguments about how strong Wild OTK decks are at the moment, but this leads me to wanting separate balancing for both Standard and Wild as opposed to allowing cards that are balanced in Wild to dominate in Standard.  So when you unpack Illucia, why not give 2 versions of the card that only work in their respective mode with the Standard version being retired/folded into the Wild version when it rotates?  I know this would be harder in terms of coding and player confusion, but from a game balancing perspective I don't see why we don't have separate sandboxes.

              Regarding #2 - This is just my opinion and I don't believe it should be imposed on others, but my ideal meta always includes OTK decks as a viable strategy, but they rarely rise to the ranks of T1 or T0 given how tilting they can be for the vocal minority that you mentioned in your original post (I feel the same way about Casino builds).  So I've been on board with the nerfs, in Standard, to some of the old Malygos Druid decks that seemed OP, but I would've pushed back against nerfs to slower or less consistent OTK decks like when some of the Shirvallah OTK Pallys were meta-viable.

              Lastly, I just wanted to leave a comment about Neutral Legendaries.  It's obvious that neutral cards can only be as strong as they perform in the classes for which they have the most synergies.  However, I find it frustrating when a card like Kael'thas Sunstrider performs so much better in certain classes that when it's nerfed it's no longer viable in any other classes than the originally OP ones.  E.g., I'd argue that Kael'thas is extremetely fair at 7-mana in Hunter, and was borderline fair at 6-mana, but going any higher will kill it completely.  So instead of a one-size-fits-all nerf to Kael'thas again, why not print multiple versions with different mana costs or abilities (e.g., only one 0-cost spell vs. a new 0-cost spell every 3 spells) like they did with all of the different versions of Galakrond?  Or you could make it simpler with 3 versions (1 quad-class and 2 tri-class)...

              • Thank you for that novel.  Are you enroute to get it published?

                Friendly

              • Problem with multiple versions of cards is it multiplies the amount of work to design and keep them in check. Different versions of the same card are effectively different cards. They just can't do it.

                About KT, while it is true that currently only Druid can effectively abuse it, it may not be the case forever (ie Shaman starts to gather interesting synergies).

                Either way the real problem of KT is the discount to (0). He should discount to (1), and probably only one spell per turn. I don't even understand why they nerfed his base cost instead of his discount. It was obvious the problem would repeat, especially with printing even more (broken) Ramp cards...

  • I think that Soul Fragment as a card by itself is completely fine. The package, on the other hand, is a very strong addition to existing archetypes. Marrowslicer is such a great weapon even though it acts similar to Truesilver Champion, and Soulshard Lapidary is just an insane amount of burst and tempo at the same time and the effect is extremely consistent to be played on turn 5. I think it's as balanced as Demon Hunter always is so might need some nerfs but I can't think what to hit.

    I'll say this right now but ever since I saw Glide being shown as a card I only thought that card to be a bad card in terms of both design and strength. Even now, I don't think the card is good. It's annoying sure but it feels like you should just run Skull of Gul'dan instead because you get so much tempo from the Mana cost reduction instead of the random RNG effect that you don't ever know is good or bad. Every time I see a DH play Glide on me when I have an 8 card hand, all I could think of was 'oh hey he wasted 4 Mana and I lost 4 cards but that's fine because he skipped half his turn'. Overall, if this card gets nerfed to 5 Mana, I wouldn't complain but I just don't see it's power right now. (Maybe I'm just bad because I'm not a Legend player.)

    Lightning Bloom is a card that feels so busted I think that they should just remove the card entirely or redesign it because you can't balance it properly for it to still see some amounts of play. If you make it so that it's Overload (3), I wouldn't mind. If you make it into Overload (4), I wouldn't run this card in any deck but OTK. This card is problematic in not Druid but also Shaman because you get so much mana cheat early on that it would just boost the deck's win rate by 20% every time a single one is played. This card really makes you think why the hell pre-nerf Innervate was never nerfed for years.

    Secret Passage allowing you to keep cards you get during that time is pretty broken and I think that's the main reason why it's so good because it's just better The Soularium but you can run 2. If a nerf happens, it's probably going to be a Mana cost nerf. 2 Mana should be fine because 3 is unplayable in Rogue.

     

    The nerfs I really want are:

    1. Kael'thas Sunstrider to 8 Mana because cheating things out at 7 Mana is no longer slow and when the average of doing so is on turn 4 or 5.

    OR

    Overgrowth to 5 Mana, but it might kill the card which should've been fine if they never printed Lightning Bloom. (Even if the card was strong before that.)

    OR

    Guardian Animals to 8 Mana, because it allows Druid a way to stop Aggro so much more efficiently than any other card they have.

    OR (the best choice)

    Everyone, dust your Lightning Blooms immediately.

    2. Mindrender Illucia to 3 Mana, because this effect for 2 Mana is too cheap and tbh I can't believe they made this effect as a Collectible card and not as a Solo Adventure card.

    3. Secret Passage to 2 Mana.

    4. Voracious Reader to 3 Mana, this card enables Aggro decks to get their bursts quickly and for so much value and for almost no repercussion. The stats in the card won't matter too much because it's insanely cheap in the first place, therefore a Mana change should be good. (Might be wrong about this one but idk.)

    5. Diligent Notetaker to a 2/2, this card can be read as a 2 Mana 2/3 draw a card that you choose and in some cases that's Lightning Bloom or another burst damage spell like Lightning Bolt or Storm's Wrath and I think that's too much value. Might not be necessary seeing that some of the weaker Shaman archetypes but this card by itself is so insanely strong I can't ever see anyone sane enough to not run this card in Shaman in the future.

    This might be the first week of the expansion but I can already tell that Druid's going to shape the meta into a race. Yes, I understand that Aggro is usually only good in the first few days because it's easier to make but this is... ridiculous right?

  • Druid druid druid druid.

    Guardian Animals Card Image and Twilight Runner Card Image for a 7-mana 10/8 Rush that draws 4 cards in one turn?????

  • Alright, there's an official article already, and I've pretty much stated my opinion there. But just to touch upon your opinion;

    - Soul fragments and its synergy cards are not really that broken in my opinion. Yes, cards like Void Drinker is extremely powerful, but that's little to no difference from handlock playing Abyssal Summoner and it comes turn 5, assuming you've actually shuffled those cards in. The 2 heal is negligible at best. Any suicide warlock knows they need to play for board to win, and most games are not determined by warlock's health. If they lose board, no amount of healing is going to save them.

    - There's only one deck I know that plays Glide unironically and thats the ultra aggro dhunter deck that uses Voracious Reader and Glide in an otherwise normal zoo-ish deck. There's little scenarios where your opponent can get more than 5 cards in hand facing an aggro deck and not die, and from my own experience, glide usually doesn't really do much other than draw you cards

    - Lightning Bloom is the only card I think needs a nerf. This along with Kael'thas Sunstrider is pure cancer. Even aggro decks have difficulty chasing after druid, and that's not normally a good sign. I think the most appropriate nerf is to simply change lightning bloom to refresh rather than give mana. That allows both druid and shaman to continue playing with more mana while also stopping those mad turn 3-5 kael'thas into something like Survival of the Fittest or Guardian Animals.

    Friendly
    • Quote From dapperdog

      - Lightning Bloom is the only card I think needs a nerf. This along with Kael'thas Sunstrider is pure cancer. Even aggro decks have difficulty chasing after druid, and that's not normally a good sign. I think the most appropriate nerf is to simply change lightning bloom to refresh rather than give mana. That allows both druid and shaman to continue playing with more mana while also stopping those mad turn 3-5 kael'thas into something like Survival of the Fittest or Guardian Animals.

      Exactly this. I played my first game today as aggro rogue and I would say my start was decent but I got totally crushed at T7 by druid. He managed to play two combos with KT: 1st his 10-Mana spell to buff his minions and second to pull his minions from his deck with that 7-mana spell and healed himself for 10 (with 2x 1-mana heal 5). I conceded after that.

  • Robes of Protection

    • Why this card?  I've not seen anyone play it outside of meme decking

       

      Friendly

  • Based from my day 1 experience, here are the cards that I think should be nerfed:

    1) Lightning Bloom - This is just insane in Druid. I've watched Trolden's latest video and there were streamers ramping to Guardian Animals by turn 3. Someone even did it in turn 1 because he had 2x Lightning Bloom and Innervates in hand. It's way too much.

    2) High Abbess Alura - Will be nerfed to 5 mana, I'm sure. High-rolling a buff that makes this 11/14 with Blessing of Authority is game-ending. Really strong right now, though maybe the meta will just correct itself against it.

    3) Soulshard Lapidary - I haven't faced much DHs, but when I played Soul Fragment DH this card was a real problem. The curve of turn 4 Marrowslicer into Lapidary just deals insane damage, especially when it hits face. I think they won't touch this now, but if DH rises up again, this will be one of the cards targeted.

    4) Guardian Animals - I think this will be nerfed to 8. I actually think 7 mana is pretty reasonable for it, it's just that Druid can abuse it with all the ramp tools it has. 

    5) And I agree with the poster who said Sorcerer's Apprentice should be nerfed. The shenanigans that Mage can pull with this card is just insane, especially now with Mozaki, Master Duelist in the meta. That said, nerfing it could be problematic given hwo it's such an integral part of the class's core set and identity. 

    • Quote From Tetsuo
      And I agree with the poster who said Sorcerer's Apprentice should be nerfed. The shenanigans that Mage can pull with this card is just insane, especially now with Mozaki, Master Duelist in the meta. That said, nerfing it could be problematic given hwo it's such an integral part of the class's core set and identity. 

      Basically ridiculous mana cheating is not part of the mage class identity. If you see what quest mage can do in a single turn it's utterly disgusting.

      I grant mage every cute sorceress girl for the sake of flavour but discounting 6-9 spells a turn for 0 mana should seriously stop. 

  • Nerf druid, the rest of the classes are fine as far as I seen..

    they nerfed innervate 3 years ago and now they think it's ok? when they printed even more insane druid cards that are fine cause innervate doesn't exist.. but hey now it does.. AGAIN..

    nerf kaelthas and lightbloom. the rest are fine, even if they are strong when everything is strong it's fine except druid.. duck fruid.

  • I know this has been mentioned here many times, but you can just see from the first day that Secret Passage will inevitably get a nerf.

    Druid is very much rigged with the combos they have, especially with how early they can pull it off. Lightning Bloom is probably the one they will go for

    • Quote From doingtheobvious

      If I had to wager a guess, Glide is likely going to be nerfed. It wasn't fun when you got punished for having a large hand with Divine Favor, it won't be fun having your hand forcefully disrupted.

      Lightning Bloom will also likely be nerfed, mostly likely up to 1 mana so it cannot be used in Even Shaman. Not sure what other changes it might see.

      FWIW - looking at the HSReplays numbers, Glide currently has a 35% "played win-rate," which is the worst among all the cards in Scholomance.

      • Yeah, I've seen Glide once (once!) on ladder since the expansion's release, and have faced plenty of aggro Demon Hunters.

      • Quote From Haussenfuss
        Quote From doingtheobvious

        If I had to wager a guess, Glide is likely going to be nerfed. It wasn't fun when you got punished for having a large hand with Divine Favor, it won't be fun having your hand forcefully disrupted.

        Lightning Bloom will also likely be nerfed, mostly likely up to 1 mana so it cannot be used in Even Shaman. Not sure what other changes it might see.

        FWIW - looking at the HSReplays numbers, Glide currently has a 35% "played win-rate," which is the worst among all the cards in Scholomance.

        The places where I have seen it dominate are mostly in Wild.  It truly is devastating to have it pulled after you have established your hand only to have 4 cards replace your hand of 8+

        Friendly

  • Btw, I just came up with a smart nerf for Lightning Bloom:

    REFRESH 2 mana. Overload (2).

    That's still a decent tool for some swings, but it doesn't break the Curve anymore. EZ.

    Curve breaking ie Ramping should always happen at the expense of some mana or some other serious immediate drawback.

    • That version wouldn't need overload, it's not that strong. I like it though, also saw deal damage, gain 1 crystal proposition, which is cool too.

    • Quote From RavenSunHS

      Btw, I just came up with a smart nerf for Lightning Bloom:

      REFRESH 2 mana. Overload (2).

      That's still a decent tool for some swings, but it doesn't break the Curve anymore. EZ.

      Curve breaking ie Ramping should always happen at the expense of some mana or some other serious immediate drawback.

      I could and would totally get behind this nerf.  It would still allow for the Kael'thas shenanigans, but would limit the potential to play all types o crazy thing

      Friendly

  • It's almost funny how the deck that needs the nerf hammer the most is literally 1:1 copied from the last reveal stream. Almost.

  • Having played a few games of Odd Rogue in Wild, I must say that Secret Passage is completely OP. Reducing the number of cards it draws wouldnt help much imho, this needs to be 2 or even 3 mana.

  • As a rule, I would say that any new set/mechanic that gets you to re-evaluate cards like Pit Lord that you might have never otherwise played is a good thing. It's the part of the CCG that awards you for the "collection" part of the game and ensures that cards which might otherwise seem like dead/junk cards get an opportunity to shine. Soul Fragment might need to be tweaked - particularly in Warlock thanks to the Warlock/Priest dual-class cards that synergize so well with it - but the argument about Pit Lord is deeply flawed.

  • After play this weekend with a few decks of my own construction as well as incorporating some cards into old wild decks, I found another that is really fun and created a number of win conditions for me: Tour Guide

    I put it in my Odd Paladin deck and having 3 1/1's first turn may not be the most game breaking mechanic in the world.  BUT, after my opponent cleared my board and I was able to drop the side quest Righteous Cause and curve right into Silver Hand Regent made my opponent throw everything and the kitchen sink at me.

    When I put it in Odd Rogue, even more shenanigans are to be had.  You slide right into that perfect curve of attacking with your hero along with playing another minion or something else to cause threat.  

    I don't know if it merits a nerf, but it's power in Wild is seriously dangerous stuff.

    Friendly

  • I haven't seen a Star Student Stelina played, yet, through about 100 games. I suppose that shouldn't be surprising. 

    • Quote From Me0203

      I haven't seen a Star Student Stelina played, yet, through about 100 games. I suppose that shouldn't be surprising. 

      Just having one shuffled back in I wouldn't call validating of a nerf.  Now if it stole or removed it entirely from the game... that would be even more annoying, but again since it's only one card at random it's not that impacting for a nerf IM

      Friendly

  • I've been playing a lot of wild recently, and any time i face a demon hunter that isn't odd demon hunter they have glide. I play in casual mode though. I have faced about 10 i want to say that have glided me on low mana turns(under eight mana) and it really sucks to play against if you're any kind of control deck that wants more than 4 cards in your hand against an aggro class hoping to run them out of steam. You can go on about win rates and popular decks all you want. But when a card is shitty to play against and invalidates an entire playstyle and it sees ANY kind of play at all it should be nerfed in my opinion.

    • Quote From clawz161

      I've been playing a lot of wild recently, and any time i face a demon hunter that isn't odd demon hunter they have glide. I play in casual mode though. I have faced about 10 i want to say that have glided me on low mana turns(under eight mana) and it really sucks to play against if you're any kind of control deck that wants more than 4 cards in your hand against an aggro class hoping to run them out of steam. You can go on about win rates and popular decks all you want. But when a card is shitty to play against and invalidates an entire playstyle and it sees ANY kind of play at all it should be nerfed in my opinion.

      Well stated.  Nothing like working several turns to get your "combo" or control set up to only have the whole thing blow up in your face with a reset button.  Not to mention that it can happen again in the game.

      Friendly

  • Self-Sharpening Sword would be my controversial pick. It just has too much durability to be a Rogue weapon. If you don’t have any weapon removal early, and your opponent gets a Deadly Poison or a Krastinov off, that is easily upwards of 20 damage you can’t do anything about. Add on the fact that Rogues have uninteractive Stealth minions and yeah, games end very quickly.

    Although this is probably a symptom of Voracious Reader and Secret Passage being op,  my other nerf candidates.

     

    • Quote From PopeNeia

      Self-Sharpening Sword would be my controversial pick. It just has too much durability to be a Rogue weapon. If you don’t have any weapon removal early, and your opponent gets a Deadly Poison or a Krastinov off, that is easily upwards of 20 damage you can’t do anything about. Add on the fact that Rogues have uninteractive Stealth minions and yeah, games end very quickly.

      Although this is probably a symptom of Voracious Reader and Secret Passage being op,  my other nerf candidates.

       

      Maybe because I love Acidic Swamp Ooze so much that I include it whenever there seems to be an influx of weapons, but to me this weapon is annoying... but I wouldn't call it meta defining. Unless someone can get off the Deadly Poison or other buff cards sequentially, this weapon won't do a lot but cause an annoyance.  But then again, I've not seen it played a lot in games against me personally. 

      Friendly

  • Not so much a prediction as a wish for how to change Secret Passage: it could read "Replace your hand with the same number of cards from your deck. Swap back next turn."

    I.e. if you have X cards in hand, it will draw X. (I'm not sure if X would include secret passage itself. Probably, so that it's not completely worthless when you top deck it with an empty hand.)

    This stops aggro abusing the hell out of it, and it becomes more powerful the less you need it. It will then be something to play when you have a hand of cards that just aren't helpful in the current situation, and when you're looking for something specific, which is what I always thought it was designed to be.

  • Not in particular for Scholomance Academy. But I will say, since they nerfed the echo effect for Glinda Crowskin and the cost for the cards which Galakrond, the Nightmare draws, to cost (1) or not less than (1). I really hope they nerf Sorcerer's Apprentice and Kael'thas Sunstrider so the spells don't cost 0 anymore. Same for Mechwarper and Galvanizer.

    If Blizzard wants to be consistent with their philosophy to prevent "Huge swing turns", then these nerfs should happen in my opinion.

  • Mana cheating cards have always been problematic. Ramp for druid, auto-play cards, and cost reduction are that group. For druid, that means all the ramp into ramp so you can play 7 mana cards on turn 4 will be in the nerf considerations. Kael'thas Sunstrider needs to be, along with the Lightning Bloom. Though hits could also come to the very powerful spells druid gets to abuse once ramped - Guardian Animals and Survival of the Fittest. High Abbess Alura and the cost reductions to librams should be, as well. 

    Cheap draw was always hated in paladin and then they gave a bunch to demon hunter. Glide has to be looked at, especially since it's outcast effect is far worse than anything divine favor could ever accomplish. Voracious Reader is pretty strong, as well. Single sided draw makes it better than Jeeves and it costs 2 less with only 1 health lost. The same is true for Secret Passage, which is insane for 1 mana.

    Outside of those two known categories... let's take a minute to appreciate how huge the power creep is on Argent Braggart, Blessing of Authority, and Goody Two-Shields. Both blow away their similar, neutral versions with Scarlet Crusader, Blessing of Kings, and Faceless Manipulator, respectively. Both of these paladin cards have to be in consideration for nerfs, as well.

  • I'm feeling like Secret Passage needs adjustment. It is essentially 1-mana draw 5 cards, which is completely insane when compared to other draw effects. I've lost 2 games already where I had stabilized after taking a beating, and my opponent with no board and no cards just uses this spell to kill me outright. 

    • Quote From Pezman

      I'm feeling like Secret Passage needs adjustment. It is essentially 1-mana draw 5 cards, which is completely insane when compared to other draw effects. I've lost 2 games already where I had stabilized after taking a beating, and my opponent with no board and no cards just uses this spell to kill me outright. 

      This card is the number one card that NEEDS a nerf for exactly this reason.  Originally I was thinking that having it discard the unused cards that were drawn would be enough, but I have seen situations where that wouldn't have hindered it at all.  Having it cost (2) would make it more of a pain for Rogue since they have to dedicate more resources to get the effect.  

      Friendly

  • One thing I will make note of on this thread is that as annoying as some cards (or classes) can be, the nerfs that come down the pipeline seem to be consistent on a couple of things:

    1) A limited ability to disrupt it,

    2) The majority of the meta is dominated by decks focused on that card and really abusing it

    This is what I am battling with currently.  Cards like Secret Passage, Lightning Bloom, Kael'thas Sunstrider, or even the burst of use of Tour Guide in Wild Odd decks are examples of how a card can disrupt game play quickly and almost without recourse (granted Tour Guide is on the lower end of the pool in this reference, the other card are VERY much obviously on the list for a reason).

    With that in mind, what else has anyone seen that seems to inspire images of a digital plague?

    Friendly

  • I'm still unconvinced that Secret Passage deserves a nerf, despite its power. Because it's NOT draw 5, which in turn limits the abusability of the card: the higher your curve, the less you can abuse. But the lower your curve, the more easily you can be countered. Kingsbane Rogue power is bound to wane as soon as Tempo and swarm decks return to meta. And Odd Rogue can still be countered by Control with fair margins.

    On the other hand, recently the Suicidal Warlock package has shown the power to warp the meta, at least in Wild, used in a Discolock shell or in full-blown Suicide Warlock. The deck can vomit stats and draw at an insane rate, so much so that Reno Priest can hardly control it, and maybe the only real counters are Burn/Face decks, still to be proved tho.

    Raise Dead is an incredibly strong card, even on its own, and probably both Darkglare and Flesh Giant are too cheap for what they do. Maybe all 3 cards or at least two of them deserve a mana nerf.

     

  • I think the new Tortolian Mage combo with potion of illusions is totally broken. Not because it is incredibly strong but just because when you manage to pull out the combo (which comes out that it's surprisingly easy) it is totally uninteractive for your opponent.

    For those who doesn't know the combo you drop tortolian and get copies with potion of illusion then drop 1 cost tortolians to freeze the enemy board turn after turn while you slowly kill your opponent and he has nothing to do than just pass turn

    This deck is quite unknown for the people and a bit tricky to pilot but when it becomes popular the meta will be trash

    • Quote From Madaf

      I think the new Tortolian Mage combo with potion of illusions is totally broken. Not because it is incredibly strong but just because when you manage to pull out the combo (which comes out that it's surprisingly easy) it is totally uninteractive for your opponent.

      For those who doesn't know the combo you drop tortolian and get copies with potion of illusion then drop 1 cost tortolians to freeze the enemy board turn after turn while you slowly kill your opponent and he has nothing to do than just pass turn

      This deck is quite unknown for the people and a bit tricky to pilot but when it becomes popular the meta will be trash

      Probably not as broken as you think.

      Against aggro its very weak, and against everything else, draw your Potion of Illusion and there goes your combo. So the deck is a somewhat weird combo deck since it needs exactly the right cards, and at the same time cant play the distance since the longer the stall, the greater the chances of your combo being dead.

      Its a fun deck to play, but probably impossible to get consistent results.

      Friendly

  • Anyone had the discover mechanic on their bingo list? 

  • So after grinding my ass off trying to break into Legend with Priest this season, I finally cracked, waved it goodbye and switched to Odd Warrior, which got me there in like 8 games (compared to Priest which has been going 50/50 for me for 3 days now). Here are my candidates for what needs fixing, in no particular order:

    1) Kael'thas Sunstrider. Combos are fine. Combos that end you turn 7-8 are not. One of the reasons I gave up on the Priest, despite the deck running Mindrender Illucia AND Dirty Rat, was that in the 10 or so games I queued up against OTK, I never ever drew either of them. Obviously, that's RNG for you. The issue is there's just so little time to draw those answers. If you don't get them in your top half of the deck, you're done. And the main culprit is Kael'thas. The Mechathun combo itself shouldn't even be possible, because there is no reason for Kael'thas to count how many spells have been played when he's not even on the board. Kael should work like Chenvaala or Dragon Soul: only count down while in play. So if a Druid Biology Projects + Lightning Blooms him out, they still have to play 3 spells to trigger him. And Mechathun doesn't get to do its bullshit at all in this manner. There are other ways to pull the combo off if you're that into it. The fact that the nerf to Bloodbloom actually made the deck better is outrageous (though obviously, that was not the target for the nerf). Also, obviously, Kael's effect should work only once a turn. Do that, and he's a perfectly fine card. Hell, you could probably unnerf him to 6.

    2) Gibberling: Knew it when that card was revealed, there's no way this thing can stay the way it is. Even nerfing it to two mana is too little I think. Druids are currently perfectly capable of essentially sealing the game turn 3, especially if going second. You could say that's a bit of a highroll, but it's been happening with astonishing consistency in my experience. And the worst part is, there is essentially nothing that clears those boards. Not even Warrior or Priest or Mage has a way to clear a board of double-buffed Gibberlings on turn 3, yet that's exactly what the deck's gameplan is. And that's just not on.

    3) Suicide Warlock: Not sure which card exactly to target there. Maybe it's Darkglare, cause even if you nerf the Flesh Giant, Molten Giant still does the same thing to you. Granted, I've only played against the deck a handful of times, but every time it ended the same: Turn 5, there's 32 damage on the board and all my answers have been Loatheb'd. The deck should not be able to tank its health this fast, draw almost everything in its deck and do so for 0 mana, and it's Darkglare that's the enabler for all of it. Darkglare and Raise Dead providing you a free unnerfed innervate plus extra self damage + card draw off the [Hearthstone Card (Raise Deads) Not Found] to just keep going can't stay the way it is. Midrange decks already essentially don't exist in Wild, and if a Warlock can polish off a game by turn 5, it's no wonder that's going to stay the case. Hell, even the hated Demon Hunters can't get a word in in this meta, cause between Suicide Lock, Discard Lock and Token Druid, they're too slow. DH...too slow. What in the world?

    4) This is more of an honourable mention and it has nothing to do with Scholomance specifically, but I'm just throwing it out there, even though I actually play some heavily modified and memed up versions of those decks: Raza unnerf was a mistake, and Quest Mage still needs slowing down. There is currently pretty much no control in the meta from what I've seen other than Raza Priest, because just like back in the day, all Control decks become irrelevant when Raza Priest exists. The only success a control deck can find currently is farming aggro decks and just accepting mandatory losses against Priests and all OTKs (that's how my Odd Warrior got me to legend). And these anti-aggro decks aren't even really control in the strict sense of the word. There's little end-game to be found because there is no time for end-game. You either die early or you die turn 8. You just get to pick one you shore up your deck against and accept losses against the rest. There'd be a lot more gameplay variety if those two decks took a big hit, even if Raza is the only thing Priest has going for it these days.

    And yes, I'm not mentioning Lightning Bloom because if Kael takes a hit, Lightning Bloom isn't even that big of a problem compared to the rest. Not even hyper aggro Shamans with Lightning Blooms are able to keep up with token Druids, Pirate Warriors and Discard Locks. Take Lightning Bloom away and Shaman's got nothing. Even Shaman has been falling off and Big Shaman is often dead before their first minion.

  • My guesses for nerfs in the future:

    Kael'thas Sunstrider: This comes out way too early i.m.o. Turn 7-8 shouldn't be the "okay now you get OTK'd" turn. Or even earlier if you ramp with druid. My guess is that it will go either from "Every thirth spell you cast each turn costs 0" to "Every fourth spell you cast each turn costs 0" or to "Every thirth spell you cast each turn costs 1". The last one seems the most likely as other cards like the Rogue Galakrond have seen similar changes.

    Lightning Bloom: If they don't nerf [Hearthstone Card (Keal'Thas Sunstrider) Not Found], it will be this card. Sure the overload 2 effect kinda balances it, but if combined with lots of ramp, you basicly negate the downside and make it a better Innervate. (Or just OP pre-nerf Innervate). In Shaman this card is also a bit high rolly, but i haven't seen shaman really abuse it that much. 

    Secret Passage: "1 mana draw 5!!1!1!". Okay i feel like a few ways blizz could nerf this card: #1: Increase it's cost to 2. Still really strong at 2 mana. OR #2: when your hand get's replaced, it will still count as "in hand". This nerf shuts down Mecha'thun rogue in wild, which can do their combo fairly early, because of Myra's Unstable Element and [Hearthstone Card (Ankha The buried) Not Found]. (and of course good draw) The most likely nerf i.m.o. is the "Nerf to 2 mana", because it will make this card a bit harder to use alongside cards like Eviscerate, and it slows down aggro.

    Raise Dead: This card feels kinda bad to play against. Sure you "pay" for it with 3 health, but that's often A BENEFIT to both Priest and warlock. Priests want self damage for quest, and suicide warlock is a thing with cards like Darkglare and Flesh Giant. I wouldn't be surpriced if this cards cost will be increased to 1 mana.

    Last but not least: Mindrender Illucia: This card just completely shuts down all the OTK decks, and it carries Raza/highlander/Galakrond priest over the top. And OTK was the main/best way to deal with these decks before. My guess for a nerf would be the "typical HS Team": "Cost increased by 1" nerf. They LOVE nerfing cards by increasing their cost by 1, but in this case it's a bit better. This nerf would make it so that these priests can't play 8+ cost cards like Kael'thas Sunstrider or Archmage Antonidas on turn 10+. (of course they can still disrupt your combo-pieces still, but at least they can't take the centerpiece of your combo.) Another nerf is: (And i know this will never happen, but i wish it would) Mindrender Illucia Removed from the Galakrond hero power. Just so priests can't get multiple of them.

    Friendly

  • So the first round of (card) nerfs has arrived and I don't know how to react. I could get 3.200 dust plus some more from spare golden copies if I hit that disenchant button and I'd really like to craft a few cards... But surely those two can't be all, can they?

    What do you think, are there more nerfs incoming? And if so, when do you expect them? 

  • I' m fairly sure more nerfs are incoming, but unless something oppressive emerges out of nowhere in Standard, I doubt they'll step in again before the meta has somewhat settled.

  • I'm also pretty certain that there will be other nerfs or even buffs :) 

    Kael'tas in an understandable nerf even tough he's not solely the problem in the decks he is played in :) 

    I personaly realy do not understand the Illucia Nerf - i think the card itself is fine but i guess the nerf isn't that bad.

    • Illucia just feels bad to play against. 

      I've mentioned my encounters with her in the nerf announcement thread already, but TL;DR she steals your opponents turn, and in a game of cards that can make you lose the entire game 

  • I am still holding out hope... and all my stuff that would be targeted for nerfs so I can disenchant and finally craft my Reliquary of Souls.  for me, every single time I am ready to craft it, something else comes along and steals my thunder.

    Friendly

    • if you want to play Reliquary of souls that badly just craft First Day of school and play Paladin.

      Every paladin I've fought this weekend seemed to get that legendary from that zero mana spell.

      OR you can play Shaman with Fist of Ra-Den and cast lightning bolt.

      • Quote From PLANETCRUNCH

        if you want to play Reliquary of souls that badly just craft First Day of school and play Paladin.

        Every paladin I've fought this weekend seemed to get that legendary from that zero mana spell.

        OR you can play Shaman with Fist of Ra-Den and cast lightning bolt.

        I've done the Shaman route... you die.  A lot.  Yay, you get a legendary... that you cannot support with your deck and will ultimately be destroyed for doing.

        Friendly