To give some feedback back to the people who gave me some feedback.
Linkblade91
I think Wraith Knight is probably the "flashiest" of your cards, which is typically how these competitions tend to go. Then again, you've won 3 competitions and I've only won 1.
Your other two cards are okay, although Baine Bloodhoof would need a name change, and still feels a bit OP with the 3/3 weapon.
Pokeniner
Like Link, I also do not like how effortlessly you can complete Bazaar Burglary with this one card. Cataclysm may be able to complete your Quest with one card as well, but that also comes with the cost of losing your whole hand. Sick artwork though.
Hordaki
Anubisath Guardian is pretty cool, although the growing rates are perhaps a bit too slow for that effect. Maybe +1/+1 instead of just Health, so that it's not so slow upon growing? Trans-Mrrgl-Fier is not as good, since most Murlocs are quite small meaning the upgrade (if there is one) is generally not big enough.
TheHoax91
Nether Tempest seems really spicy. It might be too good with Sorcerer's Apprentice though. Masquerade is definitely more up my alley, so I prefer that one, although both of them are pretty good.
KANSAS
I feel like you've said "I don't like this card" about almost every WCDC card I've made since we've started. *shrugs* - Not a complaint, just an observation. And actually, I could say that about your hypothetical Murloc situation because that card would still work (in fact, Xarkkal actually just did it). I believe your example is also still more egregious than my own card as far as the grey area goes.
As for your own cards, Satyr Spelleater and Morgl the Oracle are my favorite of the 5. The other 3 rub me the wrong way in some way (though, Morgl does also rub me the wrong way by using a hero as a card, but it's fully accepted by the game now, so I can't really feel negatively towards it).
Shaveyou
I love Mummified Monkey because it's such a silly, but at the same time, really well made card. Determined Devotee being able to miss its timing fairly easy does knock it below Monkey for me, but the effect is still cool.
Well, isn't the point of making a card from a previous expansion to imagine that the card has existed in the game ever since, getting to live through all subsequent expansions and its various metas and such? In that case the idea is that the quests were designed around your card, so your card can't break them or else they wouldn't have been made in their current form. Since your card isn't actually in the game and the developers haven't taken it into consideration when making the quests, it's your job to make it look like they did.
This part right here sounds like something that I would be telling you and not the other way around.
In any case, it appears that we both agreed on something, so I think we can drop this.
I will try to be more lenient with watermark scoring this time around. Although your card logically should come from Saviors of Uldum or later as it's supposed to support a Quest there, I will try not to penalize you for this as long as the card still makes context within the set.
I kind of disagree with your reasoning. There is no reason why the card couldn't have been released before the quests were printed. In fact, Darkshire Librarian, the card used as an example in the rules, was made 1 year before quests were even a thing. This is because Quests already tap into class identity so that they have some support when they're released. Mage had spell generation before Un'Goro, paladin had buffs, shaman had murlocs, etc.
To go even further, it doesn't even make much sense to design a card that works with 2 quests at once outside of doing it for fun or for a challenge (which is why I really like this theme) since you would never put both quests in your deck. It's more about making your class versatile to the point where you could imagine it being used in 2 different decks that both manifest class identity in distinct ways.
Darkshire Librarian was made without any Quest in mind as simply a generic card, as it existed before Quests were made (as you had mentioned) and therefore was nothing to design around. The fact that it happens to work with both Quests is merely a coincidence. Darkshire Librarian is merely an example of why I won't be penalizing cards that existed before the Quests as long as they make context within the set (as it does).
Since these cards here ARE designed with Quests in mind, it would make the most sense for them to be from a set where the Quest existed. Otherwise, you're designing a card around a specific card that didn't exist yet, which doesn't make sense in terms of the game's continuity.
Its synergy with The Last Kaleidosaur is obvious. Making Mummies is less direct, but it's still there, as targeting a Reborn minion would summon a new minion and give you another Reborn minion in hand with its Reborn effect refreshed, and even some bonus enchantments.
And of course, notice that it specifies "other", meaning that it will not infinitely return itself to the hand with the bonus enchantments.
I will try to be more lenient with watermark scoring this time around. Although your card logically should come from Saviors of Uldum or later as it's supposed to support a Quest there, I will try not to penalize you for this as long as the card still makes context within the set.
Also, the easiest classes to do this for would be Hunter or Mage. Any card that works for Open the Waygate also works with Raid the Sky Temple, as the requirement for the latter is simply just a less restrictive version of the former. The Marsh Queen and Unseal the Vault are in the same camp, as any card that works for the former also works for the latter. This is an easy way to go about this competition, although choosing the other classes will force you to get more creative.
My best envisionment of The Rift is that you could run it as a "safeguard" package. All you need to complete the Quest are two Fire Flys and two Igneous Elementals (10 total Elementals if you count each of the 1/2 tokens), and the Quest itself, and then slot it into any deck. Because all three of these cards are odd-Cost, you could also run this package in any Odd deck you make with the class.
Frozen Soul: As it is you could rephrase the text to: Play this, win the game. If at all this effect would need to be attached to a quite high cost minion (to give the opponent at least the chance to remove this)
Frozen Soul is not a card that you play. It's the card that the Lich King plays against you in the KotFT solo adventure if you choose Time Traveler (just like Fallen Champions or The True Lich).
The Rift is also a Quest reward, so it still requires at least a little bit of work to get there.
Dunno, I feel like they could go deeper (heh..) about the inspiration and direction of the art.. All they really do is to show uncolored versions of the released product and tell a joke.
That being said I liked the bioshock reference for nautilus.
All the jokes in these article (including the Bioshock reference) are written by me.
This is my submission for this round. A simple but effective way to help Burgle Rogue. Thoughts? Thanks!
The card itself seems fine enough, but in the future, you should post your card in the Discussion Topic first so you get feedback on your card before you submit it.
After reading up on the Demon Hunters, it occurred to me that Gruul was really done dirty by his Hearthstone representation, so here's my attempt to rectify that.
It is quite situational, but would be a useful combo disrupter when things like Malygos and dragon Priest are strong, and generally a good turn 7 play when dragons are all over the place, like today.
I was sure there was a card like this I could look to for help on wording and statline, but either it doesn't exist or my Google-fu has failed. Comparing to cards like Dirty Rat and Swamp King Dred indicates it should be over-statted, but I feel like more stats would make it too strong, lower cost would make it too powerful for aggro, and any less would make it too weak for such a situational effect. What do you guys think?
It's not really a good idea for a class card to be a very specific tech option
I mean, if the opponent has no dragons it's still a 7 mana 8/8. I feel like DH would be happy with that worst case anyway. But regardless, if you take this in the context of an Ashes of Outland card, which comes at a point when almost every class except DH is playing dragons in some form, I feel it is fine.
I didn't really mean from a balance standpoint, but rather from a card design standpoint. By making a tech card a class card, it's taking up a class card slot, when that slot could instead be used for general or archetype support for that class. You're also only giving that one class an out in the event that Dragon decks do become a part of the meta. Imagine if they made an anti-Secret card for a class instead of making it Neutral? It would make no sense to put it there.
That and also what happens when Year of the Dragon rotates out, and we didn't get many more Dragons this year? Exactly.
Firstly, tech class cards already exist. Flare, to name but one. Secondly, I already explained how it is still a decent card even if its effect doesn't activate. As well as being a 7 mana 8/8 body, it also gives you information on your opponent's hand, which is always useful.
Rotating synergy is irrelevant. You could say exactly the same thing about literally any synergistic card, including all the other dragon synergy added in AoO.
The difference here is that Flare is a Rare spell card which at least always does something (a cantrip, something Hunter with its low draw can appreciate). This is a class Legendary that you're making into a tech card, a slot which is supposed to be used to define a specific playstyle or deck within that class. It's a much huger waste to make a class Legendary a tech card than it is something like Flare which is a Rare.
I have a few other ideas I'm mulling over and might throw up later, but wanted to feel this one out, and take a break from the drawing board and give people some feedback. I'll have some feedback here shortly.
I don't think this works very well. It either does absolutely nothing, or it completely destroys your opponent's entire dec strategy with no possible counterplay.
@Linkblade91, This card is amazing. I really like the flavor and mechanics. I would vote it 5 stars simply because I can't think of any way to make it better. Well done.
@Demonxz95, I don't really like this card. The balance is okay, but the flavor is lacking. I can't really connect with this character or get a feel for him by looking at your card. I don't know exactly what to change, but as it is now it feels more like a mechanic than a character, if you know what I mean.
@DecentOfDragonsOP, I agree with what Demonxz95 said, this card either gives you a ton of burst damage right off the bat, or you just die. I don't think there is really a "right way" of making this card. You are either ahead and you play this and win, or you are behind and this is just a dead card in your hand.
@anchorm4n, I like the concept, but the card is flawed. For one, as ShadowOfSense pointed out, you would get infinite Deathrattle triggers. And also, Feign Death is a similar card which, as far as I know, never saw much play because it was too hard to set up a board big enough to get enough value. This is the same thing but for 5 more mana. I would keep the deathrattle theme, but make it something other than just "trigger deathrattles" because that idea has been done a bunch before.
@Conduit, About Manastorm, I think the 2 mana 4/4 version fits better thematically, but if you don't cast any spells this is just a 2 mana 4/4 no downside. I understand this is a Mage card and Mages cast spells, but I do think the downside is a bit too hit-or-miss, you either drop this on turn two and get a huge tempo swing at no loss, or you cast this alongside The Coin or a secret and all hell breaks loose. I don't think a yogg-saron this early in the game is very healthy, I would either keep the strong early game minion with a downside thing, or keep the "random spells" thing, but both paired together feels like too much too early in the game.
@CursedParrot, I like the idea of re-making Prince Malchezaar, but I don't like the card as it is now. It doesn't feel very relistic, it just feels like the Prince Malchezaar we have right now only with targeted Legendaries. I would keep the shuffling mechanic because that is cool and under-used in Hearthstone outside of Rogue, but I would tone down the ability to be a bit more simplistic.
@Menacing Bagel, This is an interesting card, I think there is a lot you can do with Brightwing. But I don't really like the "transform them into 1/5 sheep until the end of their turn" for two reasons. One, the text is kind of cluttered. It is a simple idea but it doesn't translate well into the text box. And two, it just feels weird. Transforming until the end of turn is an unusual thing, and making it a 1/5 sheep also just makes it feel unusual and unrealistic.
@Inconspicousaurus, I agree with Demonxz95 that tech cards shouldn't be class specific. To keep the "dragon hunter" theme without making him just tech against dragons, you could make him summon a dragon token for your opponent, and they could have some sort of synergy or specific interaction or something.
@Pokeniner, I really like giving mage some way to utilize Frozen minions, but I am a bit scared by the raw combo potential here. Something like "add random spells to your hand" or "cast random spells" or "draw cards" may be better, but ultimately I am not really sure what is best.
@TheHoax91, I am not sure about the Deathrattle thing. It is a cool idea, but in practice I don't think it adds anything positive to the game. Mechanically, this is virtually the same as just "gain 15 extra armor". To make it fit more thematically with the original Eydis, I would make the battlecry something that wants you to cast spells on your minions.
@MrRhapsody, I like Medivh the best, it is very flavorful. I am not too familiar with Medivh's story, but I know he was sucked into some kind of magic portal or something and he came out all dark and purple and stuff. Turning that story into a prime minion is genius.
It's supposed to link back to the original Nefarian being pretty much the original Burgle Rogue card (despite being Neutral).
I know Kael'thas has only been out for a bit, but his smile made me think of Corrupted minds so much this art just screamed "Freeze you to death". The card bascially is a mage exclusive Kael'thas that forces you to have previous setup in order for their to be a benefit. The only 0 cost spell with Freeze is Freezing Potion, and running 2 potions for this seems like a stretch. Thoughts?
And it's a Knights of the Frozen Throne card, so it would technically exist before the original Kael'thas (although I know most people don't use watermarks that way).
As for the card, I like the idea of a Freeze Mage card that actually does something different than just "stall, stall, stall". Its combo potential is maybe, slightly scary though.
After reading up on the Demon Hunters, it occurred to me that Gruul was really done dirty by his Hearthstone representation, so here's my attempt to rectify that.
It is quite situational, but would be a useful combo disrupter when things like Malygos and dragon Priest are strong, and generally a good turn 7 play when dragons are all over the place, like today.
I was sure there was a card like this I could look to for help on wording and statline, but either it doesn't exist or my Google-fu has failed. Comparing to cards like Dirty Rat and Swamp King Dred indicates it should be over-statted, but I feel like more stats would make it too strong, lower cost would make it too powerful for aggro, and any less would make it too weak for such a situational effect. What do you guys think?
It's not really a good idea for a class card to be a very specific tech option
I mean, if the opponent has no dragons it's still a 7 mana 8/8. I feel like DH would be happy with that worst case anyway. But regardless, if you take this in the context of an Ashes of Outland card, which comes at a point when almost every class except DH is playing dragons in some form, I feel it is fine.
I didn't really mean from a balance standpoint, but rather from a card design standpoint. By making a tech card a class card, it's taking up a class card slot, when that slot could instead be used for general or archetype support for that class. You're also only giving that one class an out in the event that Dragon decks do become a part of the meta. Imagine if they made an anti-Secret card for a class instead of making it Neutral? It would make no sense to put it there.
That and also what happens when Year of the Dragon rotates out, and we didn't get many more Dragons this year? Exactly.
After reading up on the Demon Hunters, it occurred to me that Gruul was really done dirty by his Hearthstone representation, so here's my attempt to rectify that.
It is quite situational, but would be a useful combo disrupter when things like Malygos and dragon Priest are strong, and generally a good turn 7 play when dragons are all over the place, like today.
I was sure there was a card like this I could look to for help on wording and statline, but either it doesn't exist or my Google-fu has failed. Comparing to cards like Dirty Rat and Swamp King Dred indicates it should be over-statted, but I feel like more stats would make it too strong, lower cost would make it too powerful for aggro, and any less would make it too weak for such a situational effect. What do you guys think?
It's not really a good idea for a class card to be a very specific tech option
This seems lopsided. It's extremely powerful if you have a board, but it's extremely bad if you don't. Because it costs 10 mana, you're spending your entire turn worth of mana to play this one card with a symmetrical ongoing effect, and if you don't have any other minions, your opponent gets to benefit from it first, which may result in killing you
I want to ask for more feedback for my card. What did you vote and why? What could I have done better? And what should I do better next time?
In the interest of honesty I gave the card a three, although it could have been a four I suppose. There's nothing inherently wrong with the card, I would say, but I didn't find it particularly novel or exciting. It's alright, in just about every aspect. Alright flavor, alright balance (maybe a little strong), and alright creativity. I imagine some would find it un-fun, though, as I said originally, so that might have hurt the vote.
Thinking back I noticed I've been pretty harsh in my votes lately. Something I need to think about/fix on my end.
Honestly, a lot of people vote way, WAY too harshly in here. It came to a point where I’m hesitant to rate cards at all, because my ratings just plummet relative to the ratings I give other cards.
That being said, a pleasant surprise to be in the finals, GL to everyone!
Congrats to the winner! Not my favorite of the bunch, but definitely a worthy victor! Great job everyone!
On the subject of people voting way too harshly... How in the hell are Incendiary Chicken and Grand Apothecary Putress worthy of 13 1 star ratings?!?! I'm curious to know how any of the cards in the final were worthy of a 1 star rating? Are people not voting on a 5 star basis in the finals, but marking them by "favorite to least favorite"? If so, we should change the voting of the finalist cards to rating from 1-8 instead of a 5 star system.
If one is in the finals, that person might vote their own card 5 stars and every other card 1 star to simply further their own chances of winning. If every finalist does this, then it ultimately has no effect, but this is not typically the case.
But as I wasn't in the finalists, I voted Incendiary Chicken 1 star (both here and during the regular voting period) because it's an incredibly weak and bad card, and the fact that it's a chicken (and therefore a bit of a joke card), does not make up for that.
To give some feedback back to the people who gave me some feedback.
Your other two cards are okay, although Baine Bloodhoof would need a name change, and still feels a bit OP with the 3/3 weapon.
As for your own cards, Satyr Spelleater and Morgl the Oracle are my favorite of the 5. The other 3 rub me the wrong way in some way (though, Morgl does also rub me the wrong way by using a hero as a card, but it's fully accepted by the game now, so I can't really feel negatively towards it).
This part right here sounds like something that I would be telling you and not the other way around.
In any case, it appears that we both agreed on something, so I think we can drop this.
Darkshire Librarian was made without any Quest in mind as simply a generic card, as it existed before Quests were made (as you had mentioned) and therefore was nothing to design around. The fact that it happens to work with both Quests is merely a coincidence. Darkshire Librarian is merely an example of why I won't be penalizing cards that existed before the Quests as long as they make context within the set (as it does).
Since these cards here ARE designed with Quests in mind, it would make the most sense for them to be from a set where the Quest existed. Otherwise, you're designing a card around a specific card that didn't exist yet, which doesn't make sense in terms of the game's continuity.
Incoming!
Its synergy with The Last Kaleidosaur is obvious. Making Mummies is less direct, but it's still there, as targeting a Reborn minion would summon a new minion and give you another Reborn minion in hand with its Reborn effect refreshed, and even some bonus enchantments.
And of course, notice that it specifies "other", meaning that it will not infinitely return itself to the hand with the bonus enchantments.
I will try to be more lenient with watermark scoring this time around. Although your card logically should come from Saviors of Uldum or later as it's supposed to support a Quest there, I will try not to penalize you for this as long as the card still makes context within the set.
Also, the easiest classes to do this for would be Hunter or Mage. Any card that works for Open the Waygate also works with Raid the Sky Temple, as the requirement for the latter is simply just a less restrictive version of the former. The Marsh Queen and Unseal the Vault are in the same camp, as any card that works for the former also works for the latter. This is an easy way to go about this competition, although choosing the other classes will force you to get more creative.
My best envisionment of The Rift is that you could run it as a "safeguard" package. All you need to complete the Quest are two Fire Flys and two Igneous Elementals (10 total Elementals if you count each of the 1/2 tokens), and the Quest itself, and then slot it into any deck. Because all three of these cards are odd-Cost, you could also run this package in any Odd deck you make with the class.
Frozen Soul is not a card that you play. It's the card that the Lich King plays against you in the KotFT solo adventure if you choose Time Traveler (just like Fallen Champions or The True Lich).
The Rift is also a Quest reward, so it still requires at least a little bit of work to get there.
If you haven't submitted it yet, just be sure to change the watermark and you'r
All the jokes in these article (including the Bioshock reference) are written by me.
The card itself seems fine enough, but in the future, you should post your card in the Discussion Topic first so you get feedback on your card before you submit it.
The difference here is that Flare is a Rare spell card which at least always does something (a cantrip, something Hunter with its low draw can appreciate). This is a class Legendary that you're making into a tech card, a slot which is supposed to be used to define a specific playstyle or deck within that class. It's a much huger waste to make a class Legendary a tech card than it is something like Flare which is a Rare.
I don't think this works very well. It either does absolutely nothing, or it completely destroys your opponent's entire dec strategy with no possible counterplay.
I have an updated version of my Nefarian card and a second, entirely new card.
For reference, here's my previous version of Nefarian:
@TheHoax91 I made this updated version before I saw your rewording suggestion. I'll probably end up doing it if I go with Nefarian.
Dude, this is a really cool series.
It's supposed to link back to the original Nefarian being pretty much the original Burgle Rogue card (despite being Neutral).
And it's a Knights of the Frozen Throne card, so it would technically exist before the original Kael'thas (although I know most people don't use watermarks that way).
As for the card, I like the idea of a Freeze Mage card that actually does something different than just "stall, stall, stall". Its combo potential is maybe, slightly scary though.
I didn't really mean from a balance standpoint, but rather from a card design standpoint. By making a tech card a class card, it's taking up a class card slot, when that slot could instead be used for general or archetype support for that class. You're also only giving that one class an out in the event that Dragon decks do become a part of the meta. Imagine if they made an anti-Secret card for a class instead of making it Neutral? It would make no sense to put it there.
That and also what happens when Year of the Dragon rotates out, and we didn't get many more Dragons this year? Exactly.
It's not really a good idea for a class card to be a very specific tech option
This seems lopsided. It's extremely powerful if you have a board, but it's extremely bad if you don't. Because it costs 10 mana, you're spending your entire turn worth of mana to play this one card with a symmetrical ongoing effect, and if you don't have any other minions, your opponent gets to benefit from it first, which may result in killing you
If one is in the finals, that person might vote their own card 5 stars and every other card 1 star to simply further their own chances of winning. If every finalist does this, then it ultimately has no effect, but this is not typically the case.
But as I wasn't in the finalists, I voted Incendiary Chicken 1 star (both here and during the regular voting period) because it's an incredibly weak and bad card, and the fact that it's a chicken (and therefore a bit of a joke card), does not make up for that.